Lol. I assume that you don't believe talking in tongues is scriptural?
And well, the believer is not secure until he finishes his course. Until then, he always has the choice to either follow Jesus or backslide. If that's what you mean . . . .
Faith without works is dead
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Lol. I assume that you don't believe talking in tongues is scriptural?
And well, the believer is not secure until he finishes his course. Until then, he always has the choice to either follow Jesus or backslide. If that's what you mean . . . .
I rest my case. This is the "faith" of a charismatic/pentecostal tongue speaking "believer" folks. Piously going about earning his own salvation. I would weep if I wasn't such a jaded cynical old man. No wonder Christ says he doesn't know you because clearly you don't know Him. If you did know Him you would have entered into His rest where His yoke is light!
If you want to do the WORK of God believe in Him who He hath sent! It's that simple people. I didn't say easy, I said simple.
I do know some wonderful Christian people who are caught up in it too. Neither do I condemn them. I was a very active member of one for three years and during that time I had the absolute mind blowing pleasure of Ieading 14 people to Christ at one beach mission. I really did love many of the people I met there. In fact I didn't meet anyone I didn't like. But that's not the point, I've met some pretty awesome atheists and pagans in my day too.
I rest my case. This is the "faith" of a charismatic/pentecostal tongue speaking "believer" folks. Piously going about earning his own salvation. I would weep if I wasn't such a jaded cynical old man. No wonder Christ says he doesn't know you because clearly you don't know Him. If you did know Him you would have entered into His rest where His yoke is light!
If you want to do the WORK of God believe in Him who He hath sent! It's that simple people. I didn't say easy, I said simple.
Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
I do know some wonderful Christian people who are caught up in it too. Neither do I condemn them. I was a very active member of one for three years and during that time I had the absolute mind blowing pleasure of Ieading 14 people to Christ at one beach mission. I really did love many of the people I met there. In fact I didn't meet anyone I didn't like. But that's not the point, I've met some pretty awesome atheists and pagans in my day too.
The word of God is our only authority and I have no time for people who want to "play church"
I think you may have missed my point. I said I knew of "Christian" Charismatics. In other words...they weren't just wonderful...they were also saved. I'm not agreeing with all their doctrines, and certainly there are those who take it so far that yes...they feel salvation comes through works. Obviously that is not biblical.
But my original point still stands...I do feel that you were perhaps lumping them all together, and damning every single one of them:
It does very much seem like you may be condemning them, and that makes me uncomfortable. Calling an entire denomination satanic is a really serious accusation, and one that cannot be true for every single person within the denomination. How many wacky 'Protestant' doctrines are out there...and yet we would not say that the entire 'Protestant' movement is satanic. I just feel I must ask your caution on how you try and make your point...less generalisation?
I make no apology for damning the whole Pentecostal and Charismatic movement to hell same way I do the RCC JW, Mormons, and Islam, but not the individual blinded fool who is caught up in it.
I didn't misunderstand you at all. I can’t talk for any a person’s salvation but a movement that preaches NO ETERNAL SECURITY AKA the Pentecostal movement and charismatic movement. well, its satanic and no offense, if that makes you feel uncomfortable, tough luck!
You said this almost as if it’s only a small matter of doctrine, almost inconsequential “they feel salvation comes through works. Obviously that is not biblical."
If I was a touchy feely type, again no offense, this would make me feel not only uncomfortable but it also puts us at enmity with each other.
And I must be upfront, if this site is going to pander to and cater to those who preach heresy AKA the non eternal security of the believer then I don’t see any point in being part of this community because the topic is just going be massive eternal circle jerk.
This topic is not a topic that is “controversial within the church” its an open external attack from outside the church on the church. If people want to listen to sermons with itching ears and play spiritual apostles good luck to them, just don’t call it bible believing (and bible understanding) Christianity. And then we will all get in famously, but the second you start defending this as not that bad you compromise yourself. That should make you feel uncomfortable. Cognitive dissonance tends to produce discomfort.
I have left fellowships I have been member of for years for much less than this.
That said, Im sure I wasn’t missed nor would I expect to missed here either.
Too heavy? Too bad!
Finally I'm not sure what yo mean "Protestant" . The bible is the word of God, it is neither protestant or catholic and neither am I.
God bless.
PS: You may change my mind if you can supply me with at least three statements of faith from three charismatic and pentecostal pastors (of different denominations) and their position on The Doctrine of Salvation. If just one of them teaches the TRUTH, I may change my tune.
PPS: This is nothing personal Rach, you seem like a very descent sort.
Agh . . . . I smell something . . . . it's arousing the fire in my blood . . .
I'm tired of hearing about this believe and get saved. You know what? I believe that you MUST believe to be saved! I believe that salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ through his Grace! And you know what? I also believe that after I'm saved, I better start trying my hardest to live saved, or I might as well forget about being saved, because Jesus doesn't give me his grace as a get-out-of-jail card.
I've got a question about a verse here:
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Or shall we say, a statement. I don't care if all the people in the world want to claim that works don't count for anything in the age of Grace. According to Scripture, EVERY man will be judged according to his deeds. The question is whether the grace of God has been applied or not. Works matter. You can't profess salvation and assume you are saved no matter what. You MUST follow up with action. If there is no action, you will not be saved.
Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Once again, for your benefit, I AM PENTECOSTAL, but I don't earn my salvation. I was saved through grace by faith in Jesus Christ, followed up by OBEYING his word, not just believing.
There's a whopping big difference between believing and acting it out. I believe that one MUST act out their belief, or it is null and void. This is the belief of alot of Pentecostal churches.
Blah blah blah. Here we go again. Tell me, in YOUR VERSION of the bible can you lose your salvation??? Being here is a WORK, I think I'm going to the top of the class now, possibly I'll even get to sit at the Lords right hand even. (for a minute or 2) Yeeeeeeeeeeeash!,
To mention a few:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Heb_10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
And here's one which I really think hits it home:
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I think you know full well what the Right hand of God is. At least I hope you do. I think you know full well that NO ONE except Jesus will ever achieve such power.
Move on mate, this a Christian forum, not a religious forum.
I'm not into Scripture Wars. The sad thing is bro, you have been taught this stuff by skilled manipulator a wolf in sheeps clothing, the keeper of a dry well, one who professes Christ but one who has not yet possessed Christ.
God Bless.
Oops! I bit! Sorry! This is just hilarious! Believe me, I am nowhere close to religious! ROFL.
Or is it that the KJV that you swear by actually answered your question: " in YOUR VERSION of the bible can you lose your salvation?"
I love the way people try and sidetrack when they've clearly run into a brick wall instead of saying, "Oops. I was wrong." Maybe that's why our society is such a mess. . . . And no, I'm not having a go at you. I'm just saying, it'd be a lot more honest to say, "I was wrong." I've had to say it many times, and some of them have been in doctrinal issues . . .
So long.
Oops! I bit! Sorry! This is just hilarious! Believe me, I am nowhere close to religious! ROFL.
Or is it that the KJV that you swear by actually answered your question: " in YOUR VERSION of the bible can you lose your salvation?"
I love the way people try and sidetrack when they've clearly run into a brick wall instead of saying, "Oops. I was wrong." Maybe that's why our society is such a mess. . . . And no, I'm not having a go at you. I'm just saying, it'd be a lot more honest to say, "I was wrong." I've had to say it many times, and some of them have been in doctrinal issues . . .
So long.
Your not religious" Of course you are you are earning and maintaining your salvation. How? I don't know. This is so sad, you guys are heading for the big "Depart form me I never knew you" conversation.
Mate I just cant be bothered going over the same ground in different threads. If you want to claim that is some great spiritual victory then go for it.
The bible isn't wrong nor does it contradict itself.
Watchwithme ,
If you don't want to talk about eternal security, you don't have to. But so, don't comment to those who don't believe in it. That's simple.
One of the best things about this forum is the variety of believers and the insights bring brought by those who know the Lord for sure. We all come from different backgrounds, and whether we mean to or not, we each bring a flavour of what we've been taught by others as well as the by the Lord. These are not all 'religious' preconceptions. I find it's the Lord who challenges mine - whatever their source - in His own time when He thinks fit.
,If you don't want to talk about eternal security, you don't have to. But so, don't comment to those who don't believe in it. That's simple.
One of the best things about this forum is the variety of believers and the insights bring brought by those who know the Lord for sure. We all come from different backgrounds, and whether we mean to or not, we each bring a flavour of what we've been taught by others as well as the by the Lord. These are not all 'religious' preconceptions. I find it's the Lord who challenges mine - whatever their source - in His own time when He thinks fit.
Watchwithme
Agh. I think there's quite a few round here who know that I'm biting my tongue (or is it my fingers?) to keep from typing up a searing reply. The only thing that stops me is that Jesus never pulled people down, and neither should I. It's a good thing we're online, so I actually can sit back and think before I press 'send'. I really should have been born with red hair . . . .
Oh, and amen to your statement: "The bible isn't wrong nor does it contradict itself."
That's something I live by.
Agh. I think there's quite a few round here who know that I'm biting my tongue (or is it my fingers?) to keep from typing up a searing reply. The only thing that stops me is that Jesus never pulled people down, and neither should I. It's a good thing we're online, so I actually can sit back and think before I press 'send'. I really should have been born with red hair . . . .
Oh, and amen to your statement: "The bible isn't wrong nor does it contradict itself."
That's something I live by.
Watchwithme
If you don't want to talk about eternal security, you don't have to. But so, don't comment to those who don't believe in it. That's simple.
One of the best things about this forum is the variety of believers and the insights bring brought by those who know the Lord for sure. We all come from different backgrounds, and whether we mean to or not, we each bring a flavour of what we've been taught by others as well as the by the Lord. These are not all 'religious' preconceptions. I find it's the Lord who challenges mine - whatever their source - in His own time when He thinks fit.
If a person does not believe, have faith in trust in and confidence in the shed blood on the cross reconciling them to God THEN IT DOESN'T. If they do then it does.
If a person does not believe that Jesus has the power to hold on to those ""in Him"" then they do not have faith in Him, but are trying to have faith in what they do themselves to hold on the salvation. As for me, I will place my faith in Jesus to keep me by His power.
Doing His works is what it is all about, for if you just say that you believe and do not His works, your faith is dead. If you see a man without a coat in winter and say be warmed without giving him a coat to keep him warm, your faith is dead. If you see a man who is without food and say be filled without giving something to eat, your faith is dead. These are His Works, the ones He did while on this earth. And keeping His Sabbath Holy is also doing His works. There are only 8 references to the first day in the new testament and none of them are actually a commandment to keep the first day holy, yet there are 60 refferences to the Sabbath in the new testament, so if the first day was ment to be the day of worship, where is the commandment telling us to keep it holy and forget the Sabbath of God as the day that He Scanctified and made Holy for us to worship on?
Rev 2:23
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
KJV
Rev 2:26
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
KJV
Rev 14:13
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
KJV
Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV
If works are not important why do these scriprutes say they are? These are just a few of many more that say the same thing.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
Rev 2:23
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
KJV
Rev 2:26
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
KJV
Rev 14:13
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
KJV
Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV
If works are not important why do these scriprutes say they are? These are just a few of many more that say the same thing.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
Why do you preach what is written to the Jews under the law of Moses as if it was written to the Gentiles (James 1:1)?
In this age of God's grace, shown in the gospel of grace given to Paul by Jesus, without faith in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross you will never enter heaven no mater how much you work to please the god of your imagination..
Faith without works is merely LIP SERVICE. It is not real and does not intend to be real. Because there is a cost to REAL FAITH that the FLESH does not want to PAY. The Cross is odious and onerous to the flesh and the flesh can become very religious in order to avoid the Cross.
We are commanded to ABIDE in HIM, or be cast aside and burned, but some consider that WORKS.
Axehead
Okay, then tell me what you mean when you say we are to abide in Christ?
Paul was stoned and ridiculed by the religious Jewish believers for teaching the gospel of God's grace which said that those under grace are dead to the Law and that it was unnecessary for the Jews to be circumcised.
Paul’s faith abided in Jesus Christ just as the faith of the children of God abide in Jesus Christ.
Now if you are going to say that we must keep the Law in order to abide in Christ then we certainly disagree.
Richard,
I have explained abiding in Christ in many threads. What would really be helpful for myself and I am sure others, would be if you could explain what "abiding in Christ" means to you.
Thanks in advance,
Axehead
I have explained abiding in Christ in many threads. What would really be helpful for myself and I am sure others, would be if you could explain what "abiding in Christ" means to you.
Thanks in advance,
Axehead
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