Did the Son of God Die?

th1b.taylor · Jun 5, 2012

Did the Son of God Die?

This is an oft debated issue and it far to often causes the Christian to move away defeated and there is no good reason for this to ever happen. First of all we need to understand some things that are being left unexamined by the soft soap preachers of today. It is important to understand that God is a spirit being and except for the spirit contained in each and every human-being on this Earth there is no similarity between the bodies of man and God, the Father.

In the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, the Triune state of God is hinted at twice when it is said “let us create” and “in our image..” Now remember this as I latter discuss the death of the man, Jesus. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are spirit beings as are Satan and all Angels. The Bible is consistent in it's teaching that man is eternal, even though we have died from the beginning. So, if we are created in the image of God, what is that image?

If the image of the God Head is not found in our body, where is it then. If the bodies of men waist away and if we are created in the image of spirit beings we must have a spirit component to our make up. But back to the death of Jesus. Mary was over-come by the Holy Spirit of God. (Luke 1:35) Mary did not have physical relations with God and there is no way the scripture can be twisted this way and we, the followers of Christ, must learn to put our foot down when the Atheist begins this perverted twist of the scriptures.

We serve the one and only Omnipotent and Omniscient God and since He is without limit there is nothing He cannot do! So, yes, Father God has the power to create a body to have relations with a woman but it is yet impossible for Him to do so because it would involve God committing sin and God's very nature makes Him sinning impossible. So it is left to a miracle as being the only possibility and that is exactly where God does so well. He is the maker of miracles!

But the question is, “Did the Son of God die?” The answer is no! We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources, but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament, He was and is still alive! (Matthew 27:52, 53) This all took place while the body of Jesus, the sacrificial payment for our sin debts, lay in the tomb.

The good and the bad news of this is that, having the image of God as part of our make up, we also will never die in the sense that we think of it today. We will either live in Glory or in the Lake of Fire forever, however long that may be.

aspen · Jun 5, 2012

Actually, separating Jesus's humanity from His divinity is a heresy.

veteran · Jun 6, 2012

th1b.taylor said:
Did the Son of God Die?

This is an oft debated issue and it far to often causes the Christian to move away defeated and there is no good reason for this to ever happen. First of all we need to understand some things that are being left unexamined by the soft soap preachers of today. It is important to understand that God is a spirit being and except for the spirit contained in each and every human-being on this Earth there is no similarity between the bodies of man and God, the Father.

In the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, the Triune state of God is hinted at twice when it is said “let us create” and “in our image..” Now remember this as I latter discuss the death of the man, Jesus. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are spirit beings as are Satan and all Angels. The Bible is consistent in it's teaching that man is eternal, even though we have died from the beginning. So, if we are created in the image of God, what is that image?

If the image of the God Head is not found in our body, where is it then. If the bodies of men waist away and if we are created in the image of spirit beings we must have a spirit component to our make up. But back to the death of Jesus. Mary was over-come by the Holy Spirit of God. (Luke 1:35) Mary did not have physical relations with God and there is no way the scripture can be twisted this way and we, the followers of Christ, must learn to put our foot down when the Atheist begins this perverted twist of the scriptures.

We serve the one and only Omnipotent and Omniscient God and since He is without limit there is nothing He cannot do! So, yes, Father God has the power to create a body to have relations with a woman but it is yet impossible for Him to do so because it would involve God committing sin and God's very nature makes Him sinning impossible. So it is left to a miracle as being the only possibility and that is exactly where God does so well. He is the maker of miracles!

But the question is, “Did the Son of God die?” The answer is no! We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources, but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament, He was and is still alive! (Matthew 27:52, 53) This all took place while the body of Jesus, the sacrificial payment for our sin debts, lay in the tomb.

The good and the bad news of this is that, having the image of God as part of our make up, we also will never die in the sense that we think of it today. We will either live in Glory or in the Lake of Fire forever, however long that may be.

Very good. Satan would love to have us think that God could die.

Mighty Bear · Jun 6, 2012

Men do not die they just sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51 ESV Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Hebrews 13:8 ESV Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

dragonfly · Jun 9, 2012

separating Jesus's humanity from His divinity is a heresy.

He didn't do that any more than your body and your spirit will be separated when you die.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Think about it: John said that Jesus Christ was the Word made flesh. Not only was He the Word of God, but He took upon Himself the likeness - the similie - of sinful flesh. Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

As such (clothed in the likeness of sinful flesh), the word of Satan, the lie, 'you shall not surely die', was being acknowledged on our behalf; when Jesus died, in Him, on our behalf, that lie died. Hallelujah! This truth is the foundation of being able to believe and experience, victory over sin.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, we are freed from sin.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Romans 6:4b '.... that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Only that kind of righteiousness will qualify us for life in the world to come.

Angelina · Jun 9, 2012

But the question is, “Did the Son of God die?” The answer is no! We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources, but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament, He was and is still alive! (Matthew 27:52, 53) This all took place while the body of Jesus, the sacrificial payment for our sin debts, lay in the tomb.

You are wrong... :huh: he did die and he rose again... people, please read the bible for yourselves... :unsure:

Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’

29 “Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

If Jesus did not die on our behalf and rise again then we are still in our sins but he did die and he also rose again...The whole gospel which leads to salvation, hangs on these truths...

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Hebrews 2
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

th1b. taylor

but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament,

...no he didn't. These spirit's, disobedient during the days of Noah... were imprisoned in Hades not in Paradise. Why would there be disobedient spirit's in paradise??? :huh: come on people...use your common sense!

1 Peter 3
8 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Revelation 1
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Shalom!!!

JLB · Jun 9, 2012

Angelina said:
You are wrong... :huh: he did die and he rose again... people, please read the bible for yourselves... :unsure:

Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’

29 “Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

If Jesus did not die on our behalf and rise again then we are still in our sins but he did die and he also rose again...The whole gospel which leads to salvation, hangs on these truths...

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Hebrews 2
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

th1b. taylor

...no he didn't. These spirit's, disobedient during the days of Noah... were imprisoned in Hades not in Paradise. Why would there be disobedient spirit's in paradise??? :huh: come on people...use your common sense!

1 Peter 3
8 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Revelation 1
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

Shalom!!!

I think what they are trying to get at is Paradise was in the heart of the earth at that time, based on the following scriptures. -

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise...

Jesus was raise on the third day, yet He said today you will ...

Luke 16:19-26

19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

Paradise or Abraham's bosom as it was called, because Abraham is who The Lord established the covenant we are a part of today, in Christ. The old testament saints were preserved there until Jesus announced the Gospel to them,... Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10

That is why the Word said - 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

At that time, the saints went to paradise to be preserved there in the heart of the earth, until faith (Jesus) should be revealed.

... What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made;

... But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Galatians 3:19,23

Paradise was in the heart of the earth until the saints were raised and went to heaven.

Jesus was the only way to the Father for them and for us. They were looking forward to the cross we are looking back.

Remember, it was The Lord Jesus who made covenant with Abraham!

JLB

Angelina · Jun 9, 2012

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise...

Jesus was raise on the third day, yet He said today you will ...

The word "Today" can be defined as an on-going thing, not just something that happens within a day. I believe that the word used in this scripture refer's to "from this time forth" rather than "at this very moment." Hebrews 3:7-15 JMHO :huh:

JLB

Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10

I agree with your understanding of these scriptures but also know that not everyone will...

I do not believe that those who were disobedient during the days of Noah were in Paradise at the time. I do not believe that Paradise is on or under the earth but rather in the heavenly realm. If you note the story of Lazarus..he was in poverty and was comforted by Abraham. Those spirit's who were in prison during Noah's day....were disobedient. :huh: ....

Blessings!!!

dragonfly · Jun 10, 2012

Hello Angelina,

You are wrong... :huh: he did die

I'm not clear who you were speaking to, as the author of the leading post (last paragraph) stated: 'We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources'. I also affirmed the death of Jesus, quoting:

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ....

Being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, we are freed from sin.

As far as I can make out, we are all on the same page. Aren't we? :huh:

Angelina · Jun 10, 2012

dragonfly

I'm not clear who you were speaking to, as the author of the leading post (last paragraph) stated: 'We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources'. I also affirmed the death of Jesus, quoting:

th1b.taylor

But the question is, “Did the Son of God die?” The answer is no! We must agree that the body, Jesus, died on the cross, as recorded by several sources, but the Son of God went to Paradise and release the saints of the Old Testament, He was and is still alive! (Matthew 27:52, 53) This all took place while the body of Jesus, the sacrificial payment for our sin debts, lay in the tomb.

Matthew 27:53
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

The answer is yes...he did die and went to the lowest parts of the earth...

Ephesians 4
[sup]9 [/sup]Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? [sup]10 [/sup]He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

......and preached to the spirits who were in prison who were disobedient during the days of Noah....

1 Peter 3
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared,

He spent 3 days in the belly of the earth just like Jonah Matthew 12: 40 before ascending back on earth...

Blessings!!!

dragonfly · Jun 10, 2012

Hi Anglina,

Thanks for your reply. We seem to be in agreement.

veteran · Jun 10, 2012

Angelina said:
The word "Today" can be defined as an on-going thing, not just something that happens within a day. I believe that the word used in this scripture refer's to "from this time forth" rather than "at this very moment." Hebrews 3:7-15 JMHO :huh:

JLB

I agree with your understanding of these scriptures but also know that not everyone will...

I do not believe that those who were disobedient during the days of Noah were in Paradise at the time. I do not believe that Paradise is on or under the earth but rather in the heavenly realm. If you note the story of Lazarus..he was in poverty and was comforted by Abraham. Those spirit's who were in prison during Noah's day....were disobedient. :huh: ....

Blessings!!!

The flesh body of our Lord Jesus did die, but not His Spirit, that's the point. The Spirit of GOD cannot die.

Are you among those who believe the doctrine that our spirit with soul is part of the material matter of flesh? That's where the 'dead in the ground' theory comes from. It's an old Jewish doctrine, even as shown in John 3 by Nicodemus who couldn't get his mind around the idea of a separation between flesh and spirit.

Eccl.12:5-7 reveals that at flesh death, the "silver cord" is parted, and the flesh body goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Our soul with spirit does not wait it out in the ground somewhere when our flesh dies.

The difference with Christ's Resurrection was that His flesh body was transfigured to the resurrection type body. And the fact that He preached to the "spirits in prison" also reveals continued existence after flesh death.

The Book of Enoch (Ethiopic version) reveals places of separation in God's Heavenly Abode.

As for the Greek word 'semeron' for "To day" in the Luke 23:43 verse, that Greek word is specific as 'this day'. It's those who heed the tradition of men that when we die we are waiting it out in the ground somewhere that have tried to re-interpret that simple Greek word as some imaginary great span of time. When we die, our flesh body decays going back to the material elements of the earth where it originated. But our soul with spirit goes back to God, and depending on our spiritual condition is what determines where it goes.

Angelina · Jun 10, 2012

Well I know that his spirit did not die...we are tripartite beings [ being spirit who have a soul and live in a body]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I also know the verse in Ecclesiastes 12
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The difference with Christ's Resurrection was that His flesh body was transfigured to the resurrection type body.

I don't think so because his disciples needed to have proof that Jesus was resurrected, as well as Thomas...

Luke 24
[sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

John 20
[sup]4 [/sup]Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. [sup]25 [/sup]The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
[sup]26 [/sup]And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” [sup]27 [/sup]Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.

I think the Jesus left with his body because it was Holy just as he was...I do not think that we will be the same...
There are some clues [although they may be seen as figurative] that he entered heaven in his body that was crucified.

Revelation 5:6
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

I try my best not to read too much into the book of Enoch [although very interesting - Definitely answers a lot of questions that are not found in the bible, but apparently not good enough to be included in the bible for some unknown reason]

Bless you!!!

vet:

As for the Greek word 'semeron' for "To day" in the Luke 23:43 verse, that Greek word is specific as 'this day'. It's those who heed the tradition of men that when we die we are waiting it out in the ground somewhere that have tried to re-interpret that simple Greek word as some imaginary great span of time. When we die, our flesh body decays going back to the material elements of the earth where it originated. But our soul with spirit goes back to God, and depending on our spiritual condition is what determines where it goes.

I do not believe that our soul and spirit are the same. The spirit belongs to God and will return to God as the bible states but our soul [which is made up of our emotions our will, heart and mind] I believe, will be judged...

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 23
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

There have been on-going controversy over this particular verse. Scholars believe that the comma has been inserted in the wrong place and should have been placed after the word "today." It may have just been a typo and if it was...It changes the whole verse and actually fits in more concisely with what Jesus said in Matthew 12:40

9 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now let's take a look at the word Paradise...

2 Corinthians 12
12 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

Revelation 2
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

It seems that Paradise is indeed situated in the heavenlies and not on earth or under the earth...

Shalom!!!

dragonfly · Jun 11, 2012

Hi Angelina,

Just one thought for you to chew over, in response to what you said here:

vet:
The difference with Christ's Resurrection was that His flesh body was transfigured to the resurrection type body.
Angel
I don't think so because his disciples needed to have proof that Jesus was resurrected, as well as Thomas...

Jesus could appear through doors and walls, and eat, and stated He had 'flesh and bone' - whereas Jairus' daughter, the widow of Nain's son, Lazarus (Mary and Martha's brother), Dorcas in Acts 9:36 - when they were raised from the dead, were back to the limitations of a normal body.

The chief priests sought to kill Lazarus - John 12:10.

It would not have been possible to kill Jesus again, after His resurrection, because, He could not die again - Romans 6:9.

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

I know, it's pretty mind-boggling!

Angelina · Jun 11, 2012

My quote...

I think the Jesus left with his body because it was Holy just as he was...I do not think that we will be the same...
There are some clues [although they may be seen as figurative] that he entered heaven in his body that was crucified.

I totally agree...def mind boggling! ^_^

veteran · Jun 11, 2012

Angelina said:
Well I know that his spirit did not die...we are tripartite beings [ being spirit who have a soul and live in a body]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I also know the verse in Ecclesiastes 12
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

I don't think so because his disciples needed to have proof that Jesus was resurrected, as well as Thomas...

Luke 24
[sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

John 20
[sup]4 [/sup]Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. [sup]25 [/sup]The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
[sup]26 [/sup]And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” [sup]27 [/sup]Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.

I think the Jesus left with his body because it was Holy just as he was...I do not think that we will be the same...
There are some clues [although they may be seen as figurative] that he entered heaven in his body that was crucified.

Revelation 5:6
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

When Jesus appeared to His disciples, like in John 20, I believe His flesh body had already been transfigured, simply because He appeared out of nowhere in their midst in a closed room.

I try my best not to read too much into the book of Enoch [although very interesting - Definitely answers a lot of questions that are not found in the bible, but apparently not good enough to be included in the bible for some unknown reason]

I understand. But it does align with Scripture like Luke 16 about the Lazarus and the rich man.

Bless you!!!

Blessings to you in Christ Jesus too!

vet:

I do not believe that our soul and spirit are the same. The spirit belongs to God and will return to God as the bible states but our soul [which is made up of our emotions our will, heart and mind] I believe, will be judged...

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 23
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

There have been on-going controversy over this particular verse. Scholars believe that the comma has been inserted in the wrong place and should have been placed after the word "today." It may have just been a typo and if it was...It changes the whole verse and actually fits in more concisely with what Jesus said in Matthew 12:40

9 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now let's take a look at the word Paradise...

2 Corinthians 12
12 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

Revelation 2
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

It seems that Paradise is indeed situated in the heavenlies and not on earth or under the earth...

Shalom!!!

Though I well understand that God's Paradise in Heaven means His Abode, I believe it is much larger than we may think, and has places of division, just like the great gulf fixed idea of Luke 16. The word paradise is originally from the Orient. In the Greek Septuagint OT, 'paradise' is rendered for Eden.

brightmorningstar · Jun 12, 2012

Jesus was of course both human and divine, as a human he of course died and rose again.

Angelina · Jun 12, 2012

Though I well understand that God's Paradise in Heaven means His Abode, I believe it is much larger than we may think, and has places of division, just like the great gulf fixed idea of Luke 16. The word paradise is originally from the Orient. In the Greek Septuagint OT, 'paradise' is rendered for Eden.

It certainly seems to be Eden dear brother... ^_^

[quote]Revelation 2
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”[/quote]

Jesus was of course both human and divine, as a human he of course died and rose again.

Amen!!!

aspen · Jun 18, 2012

You cannot separate the divine and human nature of Jesus! It is foundational to Christianity. It is shocking to me that people can get on this board and trumpet their Biblical knowledge all over the place and then turn around and deny the doctrine of the Trinity and the Incarnation of Christ. Where are your priorities?

HammerStone · Jun 18, 2012

I see a lot of systems where the Bible is being forced to fit, when the opposite should be done...

Hebrews 9:27-28 ESV
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

I Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Fully God, fully man.

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