Three Questions Regarding Chastisement

I'm not skilled at debating...but these are questions that I've asked myself and still ask. I'd love input and different views on what Chastisement is, the purpose for being chastened and why it occurs.

1. What is Chastisement?

2. If past, present and future sins are forgiven at the time that we accept Jesus as our savoir, what is the need of Chastisement?

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

3. What are the standards by which we are judged and chastened? In order for us to have need of correction are there biblical standards set in place where judgment is necessary in order for there to be a need for correction in the first place?

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Strong's Concordance

Chastise: Hebrew
3256 yacar yaw-sar' a primitive root; to chastise, literally (with blows) or figuratively (with words); hence, to instruct:--bind, chasten, chastise, correct, instruct, punish, reform, reprove, sore, teach.

Chastise: Greek
1969. epiplesso ep-ee-place'-so from 1909 and 4141; to chastise, i.e. (with words) to upbraid:--rebuke.
2849. kolazo kol-ad'-zo from kolos (dwarf); properly, to curtail, i.e. (figuratively) to chastise (or reserve for infliction):--punish.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

In a translation comparison the word, "iniquity," in the above verse is sometimes translated as: (ISV) "evil," (ASV) "unrighteousness" and (NIV) "wickedness."

williemac said:

It would help to understand that chastisement and chastening are two different words with two different meanings. A simple look in a dictionary reveals that chastening is correction for the purpose of moral improvement, while chastisement is punishment for wrongdoing. So we have punishment vs. correction. Jesus was chastised (punished) for our peace. Whom He loves,He rebukes and chastens.

Chastening has nothing to do with paying a penalty. Chastisement has everything to do with paying a penalty.

Chastisement has nothing to do with correction. Chastening has everything to do with correction.

Click to expand...

Hi Williamac,

Thank you for responding.

I did a general search on an online Strong's Concordance site for both words and here are the results. I actually have a very old Strong's concordance packed away somewhere from a recent move, and am going to spend some time searching for it today as I see from some other message boards that some believe that the newer translations are not as accurate. I'm not seeing such a difference between the two definitions myself.


Chastisement

Strong's Hebrew:

110 'Adb'el ad-beh-ale' probably from 109 (in the sense of chastisement) and 410; disciplined of God; Adbeel, a son of Ishmael:--Adbeel.

4148 muwcar moo-sawr' from 3256; properly, chastisement; figuratively, reproof, warning or instruction; also restraint:--bond, chastening ((-eth)), chastisement, check, correction, discipline, doctrine, instruction, rebuke.

This is the only definition that comes up under the keyword “Chastisement,” in the Greek.

Strong's Greek:

3809. paideia pahee-di'-ah from 3811; tutorage, i.e. education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction:--chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.

Chastening:

Strong's Greek, with the same word searched, it gives the very same definition for both words, Chastening and Chastisement.

3809. paideia pahee-di'-ah from 3811; tutorage, i.e. education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction:--chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.

You also referenced:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Amen and Yes I agree with this, but I am seeing in scripture that there is still correction and still chastening or chastisment that is being taught to the early churches.

In 1 Corinthians Paul address this:

1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

And if we sin, we have an advocate:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Since there aren't any more responses to this, I suppose that i should go ahead and share what I've seen in the scriptures regarding these three questions.

I just read a message where someone wasn't happy about new members coming against anything, so I really hope that this isn't offensive to anyone, but it's kind of the reason I joined this forum and I suppose it's the reason why most are here. Even if we can't agree on a subject or a doctrine, I'd hope that it causes us to examine ourselves and our own beliefs and make certain that they line up with God's word, as I don't believe that anyone has all of the answers but God.

So any way..here goes...

1. What is chastisement?

I posted the Strong's definitions of both chastisement and chastening from the Hebrew and the Greek just above this message.
In the NT they are both tied together even in the definitions....so I hope that we can agree that it has to do with correction and instruction in righteousness.

2. If past, present and future sins are forgiven at the time that we accept Jesus as our savoir, what is the need of Chastisement?

If we are perfected at the moment that we believe in Jesus and repent of our sins, what more would there be to learn? Why would our hearts need to be purged? What about the renewing of the mind? Not to mention that we could just ignore the New Testament passages that talk about being chastised as our own father in this world would correct and us and generally, we'd face consequences for our disobedience..at least that's the way it used to be...

3. What are the standards by which we are judged and chastened?

What I've found is that mercy and truth go hand in hand. There's a Psalm where David cries out to God and asks Him to examine his heart and prove him. Jesus said that nothing is hidden...and when His light shines into our hearts, everything is exposed even presumptuous sin. God isn't going to leave us in that condition but those things will be purged and we will be changed from glory to glory.

It all ties into the law.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Paul also wrote that the carnal man is not subject to the laws of God, neither indeed can he be.

Once we believe in Jesus and repent for our past sins, the law is the standard by by which purging out the old leaven takes place.

Here's the list of scriptures that go into chastening and mercy and truth.

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Hebrews 12:8 If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

When we come under chastisement it is for correction the Law is the standard.

Because of God's great mercy, through Christ Jesus we are able to humbly go to God in repentance.

If we have been chastened, we know exactly where we have been in error. Repentance means, "to turn from," turning away from that sin, and as 1 John 3:4 states, "sin is the transgression of the law."

Thus: Mercy and truth have met together. When this has happened and we have repented, we will then be walking in the righteousness of that matter. And, "Righteousness and peace have kissed." How can we not be walking in righteousness in a certain area when God has corrected us and we've seen the error of that way?..It's on going.

Isaiah 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

Psalms 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Psalms 57:10 For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.

Psalms 61:7 He shall abide before God for ever: O prepare mercy and truth, which may preserve him.

Psalms 69:13 But as for me, my prayer is unto thee, O LORD, in an acceptable time: O God, in the multitude of thy mercy hear me, in the truth of thy salvation.

Psalms 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

Proverbs 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

Proverbs 3:4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

Isaiah 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Proverbs 8:20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

williemac said:

As I shared previously, I think the two words are being confused as one and the same. God is the originator of language. I would say that He is efficient at it to the point that He would not be wasteful in creating two words that mean exactly the same thing. Chastise and chasten are two different words. Though they sound the same, they have different meanings. Jesus was chastised for our peace.He was punished on our behalf. He wasn't chastened on our behalf. Chastening is for behavioral correction. Chastisement is punishment for wrongdoing. I would be checking other sources than Strong's for a second opinion. A simple dictionary, for example. However, the context is always the best interpretor of a word's meaning.

Click to expand...

I personally believe that scripture interprets scripture, and when we seek understanding through the scriptures prayerfully. Jesus gives us the understanding. That being said, there are many verses from Genesis to revelation that show what chastisement and chastening is. However, since you insist that they mean different things I looked up some different bible dictionary definitions.


Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language
1. Chastise:
(v. t.) To punish or criticize severely; to inflict pain upon, by means of stripes, or in any other manner, for the purpose of punishment or reformation; to punish, as with stripes.

1. (v. t.) To reduce to order or obedience; to correct or purify; to free from faults or excesses.

2. Chastising:
(n.) The act of chastising; pain inflicted for punishment and correction; discipline; punishment.

3. Chastisement:
n. Correction; punishment; pain inflicted for punishment and correction, either by stripes or otherwise.

1. 
   

Vines Greek New Testiment Dictionary

A1. Chasten, Chastening, Chastise, Chastisement [Verb] paideuo primarily denotes "to train children," suggesting the broad idea of education (pais, "a child"), Acts 7:22; Acts 22:3; see also Titus 2:12, "instructing" (RV), here of a training gracious and firm; grace, which brings salvation, employs means to give us full possession of it; hence, "to chastise," this being part of the training, whether
(a) by correcting with words, reproving, and admonishing, 1 Tim 1:20 (RV, "be taught"); 2 Tim 2:25, or
( B) by "chastening" by the infliction of evils and calamities, 1 Cor 11:32; 2 Cor 6:9; Heb 12:6,7,10; Rev 3:19. The verb also has the meaning "to chastise with blows, to scourge," said of the command of a judge, Luke 23:16,22. See paideuo under CORRECTION, INSTRUCT, LEARN, TEACH, and cp. pais under CHILD, paidion under CHILD, paidarion under CHILD.