Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 WM,


Being single does not disqualify you from the ministry.

However, being a woman does disqualify you from being a pastor


1 Timothy 5:17 "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine".

that word, "RULE", here in 1 Timothy is very interesting to say the least.
G4291 proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.

1. to stand before

2. (in rank) to preside meaning, 1. to occupy the place of authority or control, as in an assembly or meeting; act as president or chairperson. 2. to exercise management or control (usually followed by over ):

3. (by implication) to practise = to observe or pursue (something, such as a religion): to practise Christianity.

[from G4253 and *G2476] (see below)

KJV: maintain, be over, rule

Root(s): G4253, G2476



Now the counterpart of the one who is RULING, from the feminine prospective is,

G4368 prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.

1. a patroness, i.e. assistant

[feminine of a derivative of G4291]

KJV: succourer

Root(s): G4291

The KJV renders it here as succourer, Why?. this word succourer, (G4368 prostatis), is the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 proistemi, which is for the male in that position. see above, G4291 proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v. the Word of God must be searched, and research, to find the truth


Now in making that connection, these are those who, "RULE OVER YOU", those meaning the male, G4291 proistemi, and the female, G4368 prostatis, they have the, "RULE OVER YOU), because their appointment is from the Lord. a succourer, (G4368 prostatis), in the book of Romans, was Phebe our sister, which is also a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea. she was a succourer of the Apostle Paul, the (feminine of the the proistemi G4291 proistemi, Male). now knowing that, lets go to the book of Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life". here the Apostle Paul makes it clear that these women Euodias,and Syntyche, who Labour with him in the Gospel


the root of this word "RULE", is, "Set"

*G2476 histemi (his'-tay-mee) v.

1. to stand

{transitively or intransitively; used in various applications, literally or figuratively}

[a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses)]

KJV: abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up)

Compare: G5087, G2749



in the KJV, it is compared to the root word RULE, by elders. and the word, "SET", gives authority to the elders in the church which means to ordain.

"SET", G5087 tithemi (tith'-ay-mee) v.

1. to place (properly, in a passive or horizontal posture)

{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}

[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]

KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down

Compare: G2476, G2749

so tracing the root of the word rule, is to appoint, and ordain elders in the Church of the Lord Jesus. supporting scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues". and those who rule, meaning to, (preside, or have the rule over), is both males and females. the male, is G4291 proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v. and the female is G4368 prostatis (pros-tat'-is)



There is no difference between a man or a woman. Romans 2:10 "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God".


and the word,"MAN", in verse 10 here in Romans, have nothing to do with salvation in order to be save, as some say in Galatian 3:28. which is a sorry excuse. but here it is the work because of salvation. "Every man" is anyone, without regardless to gender. Just as in whosoever, so "every man" that is gifted by the Holy Spirit, work. and the spirit is for Men and women, supporting scripture, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". and the GIFTS of the Spirit is confirmed in 1 Corinthians 12 the whole chapter is worthy for reading. and the gift was displayed on the day of Pentacost in acts chapter 2.

Love and Peace

101G
 

Faithful

New Member
Jul 13, 2007
368
6
0
Kidron

Faithful, on 30 July 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

As a believer the Apostle Paul taught that in Christ their is no male or female.

Spiritually speaking, males and females are "in Christ" and "One" in God........but literally speaking,........."Pastors are to be the husband of one wife and women are not to teach".


Christ taught that when he returns men and women will no longer marry but be like the angels.

Actually, we will be exactly like Christ, which is to say a bit different then angels.

But that is not what Christ taught, is it?
Because Christ was a human being too. So what is different between Christ's risen flesh and ours?



When I think of the fact the Spirits power and the presence of the Spirit in a man or woman does not make them unequal otherwise it would lessen the Spirit in a woman than in a man to act.

This has nothing to do with the order of the body of Christ with the man as the "head" of the woman.
Plz read 1st Corin 11:3 for an update, as you will be shocked to find out that the man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the church

You are mixing the marital status of a woman. A man is the head over the woman if married.
That is why women who promised anything to God which their father or husband later forbade them to do were not held
accountable for breaking a promise. Man is head over his wife not other women in the Church. But the main thing is that these teachings were not given for everyone. The OT is where I take most my teachings from.
Christ himself made NO distinctions between his men and women followers. He knew that the Kingdom of God is not unequal in men and women.

The people that Paul spoke to were Gentiles and we are called to live as Christ called us.
Christ knew the Spirit would guide us in the right way.

My main point was that NO ONE in the Spirit requires a teacher. The people being taught were milk drinkers.
Meat eater do not require any man to teach them as God himself foretold through the Prophet Jeremiah when he spoke
about the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
We also know that Christ taught that those who are taught by God come to him.
John 6

John 6:45

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]45 [/sup]It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

We really do not need a pastor or an ordained man of God if taught by the Spirit they are for those who are not meat eaters.
Men and women received both the gifts and the fruit from the Spirit. The husband is the head of his wife. But we can settle this by what it means and who it applies to.

If a man forbade his wife from worshipping God or having anything to do with religion. Whose authority should the woman follow?
Should she follow God and Christ or obey her husband?

These teachings were for those whom Paul was teaching. Those in Spirit share what the LORD gives them.
None is different and all have understanding for the Spirit teaches and leads them all.

So there is no question about women being ordained because men and women being ordained is not a Christian practice.
The authority the believer follows is the Holy Spirit. Not sure why people ask about ordination and pastors and ministers.
Each persons serves God as they are called. Both men and women.

And you'll be flabbergasted and perhaps depressed to learn that the woman was made for the man and not the man for the woman....1st Corin 11:9.

Paul spoke to Gentiles who believed women to be the lesser in the sexes.

Paul was speaking doctrine, and wrote letters.....

For Paul to be speaking doctrine what he said had to be taught in the OT. So show me in scriptures where the new covenant
made men and women different in Christ and the Spirit.
Jesus spoke about true worshippers and he did not speak about one sex.



Deborah was a judge over Israel chosen by God and doing the job most thought only men did.

She's still not a Pastor.
Keep in mind we are talking ONLY about "pastors"...thats the discussion.........nothing about butterflies, or lilies in the golden fields, or ankle bracelets, or Old Testament prophets.

Pastors are not required for those in the Spirit. Are you saying that those who come to Christ through women preaching the good news are not genuine believers or acceptable to God?
Are you saying women are unequal in Christ... No male and no female... why did Paul teach that in Christ?


We have to believe that Gods free gift to men and women has no difference. That the Spirit makes all of them one and equal in the body of Christ.

Gifts of the Spirit are for all who have the Spirit, however, we are not discussing the 9 gifts, are we...........so, try to stay on topic or i'll begin to think you are an alt for Neophyte, or Foreigner, or Aspen as these 3 can never stay on topic.

You still have made no argument or shown any scripture to show that WOMEN are treated differently in Christ.
So where do the pastors get their words from? Do they get taught what to say or do all believers including women in the Spirit get their words from the Spirit? You see I am on topic. You have brought nothing from the OT on the new covenant to show that you are correct.

Joel clearly says...

Joel 2:28

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]28 [/sup]And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

When you read the above God is pouring his Spirit out on all flesh. Sons and Daughters prophesy. Or is that only the Jews the children of Israel? You see God never said only men would speak for him. What is a Prophet?
God includes the women and I am not sure what being a pastor in worldly terms actually means.
The Holy Spirit is all that is required and the truth.


It is not man who guides the believer it is the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the same for everyone.

Separate topic <<<<<<<<<<<alert<<<<<<<<!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone is not born of the Spirit he does not belong to God or Christ so what would it matter them being a pastor?
You can always answer the points.



But the gifts are given according to the Spirit who is doing Gods will.
Is he really to be prevented from giving the gift of preaching to a woman because of her sex?

Separate topic...............once again, the gifts of the Spirit given a believer have nothing to do with ordaining a male only into the position of PASTOR...

Really? If these people are not part of the body of Christ and the true Church why does the bible have any bearing on this?
You cannot have it both ways. If these are not members of the body of Christ they have no business using scriptures or the bible in any part to argue their position in the world. Surely you can see that?
 

HammerStone

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Feb 12, 2006
5,113
279
83
36
South Carolina
prayerforums.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have a question for those who use the frequent citation of I Timothy 3:2 ESV:

Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Would this exclude a non-married male?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2 HammerStone,

Amen. this appied to males. if one is married, he should only have one wife. not two wives, or three, only if deceased. and that's only if you're married. so the apostle was addressing someone who was married before or still married, (spouse still alive). but there is no qualification or restriction if you're not married. so the husband of one wife fails. as so would be if a woman desired the office. the same would apply, ONE husband, if married.

101
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
According to the bible I would say, No. I believe the bible makes it quite clear that as Christians we are all equal members in the body of Christ. Being in Christ, Christ becomes our new identity.

It is the "way of the world" to be identified by sex, race or class. Shamefully, just as these are some of the very things that divide the world today and bring about wars, these are also, equally some of the very things that bring about division in the church and the body of Christ.

As for the Christian, who's mind has been renewed according to the scripture, our perspective of identity should differ from that, of this world.

26 For you are ALL sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:26-28 (NKJV)

<neither Jew nor Greek> =difference of race/culture
<neither slave nor free> =difference of class/standard of life
<neither male nor female> =difference in sex/gender

I believe this verse couldn't be any clearer. For those of us who are in Christ. There no longer lies between ANY OF US any difference or dividing wall in regards to sex, race, or class. Our identity now is in CHRIST ALONE!

We are all knit together. We are all the hands and feet that move upon this earth as the body of Christ...each called to minister to a lost and dying world...according to the call and purpose of God on our lives... not our sex.

well said Grace...well said! :)

Blessings!!!

According to the bible I would say, No. I believe the bible makes it quite clear that as Christians we are all equal members in the body of Christ. Being in Christ, Christ becomes our new identity.

It is the "way of the world" to be identified by sex, race or class. Shamefully, just as these are some of the very things that divide the world today and bring about wars, these are also, equally some of the very things that bring about division in the church and the body of Christ.

As for the Christian, who's mind has been renewed according to the scripture, our perspective of identity should differ from that, of this world.

26 For you are ALL sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:26-28 (NKJV)

<neither Jew nor Greek> =difference of race/culture
<neither slave nor free> =difference of class/standard of life
<neither male nor female> =difference in sex/gender

I believe this verse couldn't be any clearer. For those of us who are in Christ. There no longer lies between ANY OF US any difference or dividing wall in regards to sex, race, or class. Our identity now is in CHRIST ALONE!

We are all knit together. We are all the hands and feet that move upon this earth as the body of Christ...each called to minister to a lost and dying world...according to the call and purpose of God on our lives... not our sex.

well said Grace...well said! :)

Blessings!!!
 

lawrance

New Member
Mar 30, 2011
738
19
0
How would women of gone back in the past trying to be a pastor,
I would of thought they would of coped a lot of abuse and all and i don't think men and other woman would of look up to them with to much reverence. it would be a bloody hard slog as i am sure it was hard for even a man having a go.
A woman will not gain the respect that a man could with a lot of very angry men.
Woman are not the ones that should be up the front leading as the facts are they are hopeless at it, ask any man, truthfully.
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi MR ROSENBERGER,

The thing about becoming a Christian and obeying God's will for one's life, is that He can gift and strengthen a person - men as well - to do and to become what they never thought possible.

Any man who is trying to be a pastor in his own strength will soon run out of energy for the tasks and the emotional roller-coaster which every servant of God experiences. But with God's leading and empowering, a man - or a woman - can do what He has called them to do.

By the way, it would be appreciated if you could restrain your language for the testimony of Christ to the world from CyB.
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
.
Peter reminds his readers that he is an "apostle [ clearly indicating all of them being men not women ] of Jesus Christ" and as such had authority to preach and teach in the name of the Lord ( Lk 10:16). The very fact that Peter sent his epistles to instruct and guide the Church, and that the Church revered them as inspired men, not women. Inerrant Scripture is sufficient testimony that Peter possessed an authority above that of a presbyter.or any woman prophetess so as to ordain only men.
The lowest level of priestly minister was the" male only" deacon The apostles ordained "only men" to this office (Acts 6:1-8). .
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2 neophyte

I'm glad you brought this up, " male only" deacon The apostles ordained "only men" to this office (Acts 6:1-8).

Romans 16:1 " I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea"
if you will notice that the word, "servant", here in this scripture is the Greek word, G1249 diakonos

according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
[ A-2,Noun,G1249, diakonos ]
for which See DEACON and Note there on synonymous words, is translated "servant" or "servants" in Matt 22:13 (RV marg., "ministers"); Matt 23:11 (RV marg., ditto); Mark 9:35, AV (RV, "minister"); John 2:5, John 2:9; John 12:26; Rom 16:1.


DEACON
[ 1,,G1249, diakonos ]
(Eng., deacon"), primarily denotes a "servant," whether as doing servile work, or as an attendant rendering free service, without particular reference to its character. The word is probably connected with the verb dioko, "to hasten after, pursue" (perhaps originally said of a runner). "It occurs in the NT of domestic servants, John 2:5, John 2:9; the civil ruler, Rom 13:4; Christ, Rom 15:8; Gal 2:17; the followers of Christ in relation to their Lord, John 12:26; Eph 6:21; Col 1:7; Col 4:7; the followers of Christ in relation to one another, Matt 20:26; Matt 23:11; Mark 9:35; Mark 10:43; the servants of Christ in the work of preaching and teaching, 1Cor 3:5; 2Cor 3:6; 2Cor 6:4; 2Cor 11:23; Eph 3:7; Col 1:23, Col 1:25; 1Thess 3:2; 1Tim 4:6; those who serve in the churches, Rom 16:1 (used of a woman here only in NT); Phil 1:1; 1Tim 3:8, 1Tim 3:12; false apostles, servants of Satan, 2Cor 11:15. Once diakonos is used where, apparently, angels are intended, Matt 22:13; in Matt 22:3, where men are intended, doulos is used."

well, well, well, those who serve in the churches, Rom 16:1 (used of a woman here only in NT); that just killed that MALE/MEN only Deacon club.



Diakonos is, generally speaking, to be distinguished from doulos, "a bondservant, slave;" diakonos views a servant in relationship to his work; doulos views him in relationship to his master. See , e.g., Matt 22:2-Matt 22:14; those who bring in the guests (Matt 22:3-Matt 22:4, Matt 22:6, Matt 22:8, Matt 22:10) are douloi; those who carry out the king's sentence (Matt 22:13) are diakonoi.


Note: As to synonymous terms, leitourgos denotes "one who performs public duties;" misthios and misthotos, "a hired servant;" oiketes, "a household servant;" huperetes, "a subordinate official waiting on his superior" (originally an under-rower in a war-galley); therapon, "one whose service is that of freedom and dignity." See MINISTER, SERVANT.


The so-called "seven deacons" in Acts 6 are not there mentioned by that name, though the kind of service in which they were engaged was of the character of that committed to such.

Hope this help.

Love and Peace
101
 

mandygirl

New Member
Aug 15, 2012
28
1
0
Texas
some verses that I always keep handy that might help us in this conversation.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God
~I Corinthians 11:3

Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
~ I Timothy 2:11-14

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
~ Ephesians 5:22-24

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
~ I Corinthians 14:34-35


For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. ~ I Corinthians 11:8-9

A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. ~ Ecclesiastes 26:14
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
Now, this is an interesting topic, isnt it?

Ive 2 best friends who belong to different churches which both have a woman as the pastor.

Is this biblical, .....unbiblical?
Is this heresy or "out of order"?

Well, im an evangelist and a teacher and a minstrel, and ive been to seminary and ive studied the word for a long time.
I know what it says about this issue, but, im someone who would not condemn a woman if she felt called to be a pastor.
I would not encourage her to do it, because i can find no scriptural evidence to support this position as given by Paul.
As far as i can tell, Paul is pretty negative specific about women even being teachers in the body of Christ.....but on the other hand, i have to realize that Paul was also a jew, a pharisee, who was steeped in a very deep jewish theocracy which did not accept the liferole of a woman to be anything other then a baby maker or ministry helper, pretty much..
Maybe by now, had Paul lived another 2000 years, he would have softened his positioned a bit about woman being "teachers", as he said it was "him" who didnt let a woman teach, ....he never said this was a revelation from God he was sharing.
Did you notice this???
Would Paul in 2012 say that a woman cannot be a Pastor?..........yeah..
And the bible says clearly that a pastor/bishop is to be the , "husband of one wife"...
So, im pretty sure that eliminates a woman as a Pastor/Bishop..
So, unless you are a transsexual/transgender-minded girl you are not going to qualify for that scripture and if you are a transsexual/transgender-minded, you probably should not try to qualify, as a matter of fact, im certain you should not.

On the other hand, a woman can be in the ministry as any of the other 4 fold ministers.......she can evangelize, she can be an apostle, a teacher, (tho Paul might argue with this one)...
Certainly she can be a missionary, tho missionary/apostle are the back and front of the same coin.
She can do everything but be a pastor or perhaps a deacon, and yes there are some who are Pastors/deacons, however, this is not supported by Paul or the scriptures.
Does God allow it?........yeah, but this is not the same as him condoning it or approving it....tho he might bless it. (tho I really cant answer that one.)


Would i go to hear a woman preach?.... Sure, i would go hear Joyce Meyers if she came to Israel, however, Joyce does not claim to be a pastor., and this is because she understands God's perspective.
Would i go to hear the women pastors who i mentioned that pastor my 2 best friends?.... Sure i would..
However, I would have a problem with joining their church.
And if ither of the those women asked me my opinion about their position, i would just tell them what Paul says...
I would say........."are you a male by birth husband of one wife"?..........well, until you are, next subject please......"
However, i would not try to talk them out of their situation.
And the reason is......i think that (if they are really born again and have their NT doctrine in order) they are doing a good work, even if the work they are doing is not completely in alignment with Paul.
After all, Jesus himself said that if someone is not against us they are for us, and certainly a woman pastor who has given her life to the Lord is not against him.
Maybe she is out of >order, but at least she is on the right side.





K

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.





.
 

lawrance

New Member
Mar 30, 2011
738
19
0
Hi MR ROSENBERGER,

The thing about becoming a Christian and obeying God's will for one's life, is that He can gift and strengthen a person - men as well - to do and to become what they never thought possible.

Any man who is trying to be a pastor in his own strength will soon run out of energy for the tasks and the emotional roller-coaster which every servant of God experiences. But with God's leading and empowering, a man - or a woman - can do what He has called them to do.

By the way, it would be appreciated if you could restrain your language for the testimony of Christ to the world from CyB.
I agree with you but we are talking about a shepherd of the flock. and as far as language goes try living in the real world for a change and wake up to your self as it's no pink tea and mollycoddling.
I use to think woman could do it and i had no problem with it but the more i have looked into it, i have to say no. and that's not putting anyone down. like our modern PC gods would have you think.
Mary could of became the Christ if it was not so. and that is not taking anything away from Mary.
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi MR ROSENBERGER,

as far as language goes try living in the real world for a change and wake up to your self as it's no pink tea and mollycoddling.

We are not supposed to be using the world's standards, but Christ's.
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
I have a woman as a pastor. The church slected her and we have her. She is truly a woman of grace, dignity, and of God. She preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ and is really an exceptional woman. She is saved, sanctified, Holy Ghost filled and fire baptized! I can serve under her but I do not think I could serve under every woman or every man. I grew up seeing women as ministers, preachers, evangelist, elders, pastors, etc. and many women of the faith are powerful in their ministries but some women have the gift but should not be functioning or can not function in the office. Many women in ministry allow emotions to take control and yet I do not see that in my pastor I believe many if you knew her would agree its really something different about her. Yet I still see why Paul stated that women should learn in silence and full submission. A few of the other female ministers at my church try to push up against pastor for they fill that she is a woman just like them. Most of our male ministers are humble and honor her as their pastor and not as woman. I do not know fully if God calls women into the pastorate but I know He calls them in ministry! Im still growing and learning in this view!!
 

mandygirl

New Member
Aug 15, 2012
28
1
0
Texas
Well God Bless her but theres practically nothing in the bible thats more clear cut than this issue. Its totally spelled out. Don't ignore God's law just because its more c'vonvient.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandygirl

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Most posts here come from a watered-down gospel. Aren't we supposed to emulate Christ ? Isn't Christ the Bridegroom of His Church.? How can a woman marry another woman, if Christ, a man, is the Bridegroom of His Church, are you saying that His Church is masculine? Jesus ,to make sure His work would be continued, established the "priesthood '' ---- " On behalf of Christ, therefore, we are acting as ambassadors, God, as it were, appealing through us " [ 2 Cor.5:20 ]. also [ Heb. 5:1].
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Greeting, in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. lets STOP right here for a minute. two points I would like to make, no three.
#1 Paul said, "I would not have you ignorant". neither do I. so lets look at what he is saying in truth. concering women in the ministry.
#2. in verse 7 it say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". the words, "every man", means this,

G1538 ἕκaστος hekastos (hek'-as-tos) adj.
1. each or every
[as if a superlative of hekas (afar)]
KJV: any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly

Look it up please. every man means both Male and female. now what's the point. the point is that both men and women have the gift of the Spirit. now what is the first Gift on the list in 1 Corinthians 12:8?. it is the Pastoral Gift. lets see. to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. a Word of Wisdom is understanding. what are Pastor given for?, well lets go to the book of Jeremiah and find out. chapter 3, verse 15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". the Pastoral Gift is is the first gift on the List that the Spirit Gives, and the Apostle Paul gave that list, and being an Apostle, I sure he was aware of the prophecy concerning the giving of these Gifts, and who was these Gifts for. this is found in the book of Joel. so lets go to the book of Joel and see who these Gifts are for. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". Joel the Prophet said by the word of God, and God is the final authority, he said both men and women will have the Gift. did not the Apostle Paul say the same thing. listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". and in our definition, "EVERY MAN", means both men and women, just what the Prophet Joel said, Sons and Daughters. Daughters are females, Right.......Right. so the scripture don't lie. and I obey scripture, instead of man doctrine. here we have scripture plain and clear, so what the problem?. the problem is MAN. he have given authority to set pastor over congregation. but not God. God have not set Pastors over anyone, with authority. Pastor or Pastoring is a CARE GIVING gift. no pastor was set in the church by GOD, I said, "SET". lets see. right here in the same book of 1 Corinthian, chapter 12, verse 28 listen. "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues". here we can clearly see that Pastors are not, "SET", in the church. Pastor are given to feed, not to rule, or be in charge, but as caregivers. they should care for the flock of God. and the main care is to feed God sheep with knowledge and understanding. lets see, Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers". now a question what are they given for?. the very next verse tell us, 12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". now the next question is why?. the next verse answer the question. 13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, (STOP, no more children?, that care giving), tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ". that's what for. Ephesians 4:11 is the teaching ability of each GIFTED person in the BODY of CHRIST, that he calls. as the Apostle Paul said, are all apostle, or all prophets, ect.. no, only God, and God only gives these Gifts, to whom he chose, the only thing we should pray to the Lord to send workers in "HIS", vineyard. in 1 Corinthians 12:28 is the authority Christ SET, or APPOINTED, in the churches, on his behalf, not in rulership, but in guidance, as examples, as with Bishops, one of the qualification is to care, not rule, scripture, 1 Timothy 3:4 "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)". see, one take care of the churh of God, not rule it by constraint, if you want to rule something, do it at your OWN HOME. their is only one ruler in the Church, and that's Christ. and as for Pastor, they are not shepherds. definition translate as such, but there is one big difference. Pastors don't own sheep, only the shephard owns sheep. support scripture, 1 Peter 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind. 1 Peter 5:3 "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock". see, those in leadership is to care for, not to be Lords over by constraint, but examples for others to follow, as they follow Christ. so if one discriminate, that's not of God, for God is no respecter of Person. , lastly verse 4 "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away". this don't mean their are under shepherds. Chief mean, "ONLY". Christ is the only Authourity in the church, supporting scripture, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen". in verse 15 "only Potentate", what do Potentate means?. the only authority

Potentate: G1413 δυνάστης dunastes (doo-nas'-tace) n.
1. a ruler or officer
[from G1410]
KJV: of great authority, mighty, potentate
Root(s): G1410


so Jesus is the Chief/Only shepherd. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away
as I have said, men have given authority or appointed/ordain men to provide certain function within their respective denomination. if they want to do that, fine that's their business, and I'm not against that. reason being, one better know what you're getting into before joining that Congregation, or organization. but for me, my business is about my father business. and that's all I say about that. leadership is another subject.

be blessed,
Love and peace

101G
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Greeting, in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. lets STOP right here for a minute. two points I would like to make, no three.
#1 Paul said, "I would not have you ignorant". neither do I. so lets look at what he is saying in truth. concering women in the ministry.
#2. in verse 7 it say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". the words, "every man", means this,

G1538 ἕκaστος hekastos (hek'-as-tos) adj.
1. each or every
[as if a superlative of hekas (afar)]
KJV: any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly

Look it up please. every man means both Male and female. now what's the point. the point is that both men and women have the gift of the Spirit. now what is the first Gift on the list in 1 Corinthians 12:8?. it is the Pastoral Gift. lets see. to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. a Word of Wisdom is understanding. what are Pastor given for?, well lets go to the book of Jeremiah and find out. chapter 3, verse 15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". the Pastoral Gift is is the first gift on the List that the Spirit Gives, and the Apostle Paul gave that list, and being an Apostle, I sure he was aware of the prophecy concerning the giving of these Gifts, and who was these Gifts for. this is found in the book of Joel. so lets go to the book of Joel and see who these Gifts are for. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit". Joel the Prophet said by the word of God, and God is the final authority, he said both men and women will have the Gift. did not the Apostle Paul say the same thing. listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". and in our definition, "EVERY MAN", means both men and women, just what the Prophet Joel said, Sons and Daughters. Daughters are females, Right.......Right. so the scripture don't lie. and I obey scripture, instead of man doctrine. here we have scripture plain and clear, so what the problem?. the problem is MAN. he have given authority to set pastor over congregation. but not God. God have not set Pastors over anyone, with authority. Pastor or Pastoring is a CARE GIVING gift. no pastor was set in the church by GOD, I said, "SET". lets see. right here in the same book of 1 Corinthian, chapter 12, verse 28 listen. "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues". here we can clearly see that Pastors are not, "SET", in the church. Pastor are given to feed, not to rule, or be in charge, but as caregivers. they should care for the flock of God. and the main care is to feed God sheep with knowledge and understanding. lets see, Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers". now a question what are they given for?. the very next verse tell us, 12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". now the next question is why?. the next verse answer the question. 13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, (STOP, no more children?, that care giving), tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ". that's what for. Ephesians 4:11 is the teaching ability of each GIFTED person in the BODY of CHRIST, that he calls. as the Apostle Paul said, are all apostle, or all prophets, ect.. no, only God, and God only gives these Gifts, to whom he chose, the only thing we should pray to the Lord to send workers in "HIS", vineyard. in 1 Corinthians 12:28 is the authority Christ SET, or APPOINTED, in the churches, on his behalf, not in rulership, but in guidance, as examples, as with Bishops, one of the qualification is to care, not rule, scripture, 1 Timothy 3:4 "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)". see, one take care of the churh of God, not rule it by constraint, if you want to rule something, do it at your OWN HOME. their is only one ruler in the Church, and that's Christ. and as for Pastor, they are not shepherds. definition translate as such, but there is one big difference. Pastors don't own sheep, only the shephard owns sheep. support scripture, 1 Peter 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind. 1 Peter 5:3 "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock". see, those in leadership is to care for, not to be Lords over by constraint, but examples for others to follow, as they follow Christ. so if one discriminate, that's not of God, for God is no respecter of Person. , lastly verse 4 "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away". this don't mean their are under shepherds. Chief mean, "ONLY". Christ is the only Authourity in the church, supporting scripture, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen". in verse 15 "only Potentate", what do Potentate means?. the only authority

Potentate: G1413 δυνάστης dunastes (doo-nas'-tace) n.
1. a ruler or officer
[from G1410]
KJV: of great authority, mighty, potentate
Root(s): G1410


so Jesus is the Chief/Only shepherd. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away
as I have said, men have given authority or appointed/ordain men to provide certain function within their respective denomination. if they want to do that, fine that's their business, and I'm not against that. reason being, one better know what you're getting into before joining that Congregation, or organization. but for me, my business is about my father business. and that's all I say about that. leadership is another subject.

be blessed,
Love and peace

101G
Jesus never ordained a woman into His priesthood [ Matt. 28: 18-20 ] [ Heb. 5:1 ] [ 2 Cor. 5: 20 ] [ Heb. 2:17 ] His appointed ordained apostles [ by Jesus Himself ] also appointed only men as priests [ pastors ] Paul, Barnabas, Timothy,Titus and Matthias see the following -[ Acts 13:3 , 14:22, 1: 24-26 and Titus 1-5 }
The ignorance part that you mention is as St. Jerome once penned: "To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ " God Bless
 

dragonfly

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
1,882
141
63
UK
Hi neophyte,

Jesus never ordained a woman into His priesthood

Does this mean you believe that all the priests in Revelation (who form God's entire kingdom) are only male?



Just in the passing, I hope one day you will actually read the whole Bible, and see what the role of a priest was, and how they mediated between God and the people and the people and God. Now that Jesus Christ became our High Priest of an unending priesthood, He it is who ordains His ministers, and gives them the Holy Spirit that they might make an acceptable offering to Him.