Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

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mjrhealth

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Jesus never placed any limits on what women could or could not do, it was the apostles. It was the apostles that where coming out of a religion and still had that religion in them it was that religion that placed those limits on women. We are all equal in the spirit, God can and wil use anyone with a Humble andContright heart, form a child to an aging grandmother, God doesnt have any problems with it so why do christians.
 
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Strat

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Feminism is one of the pillars of modern christianity,its followers couldn't care less what the Bible has to say on the subject...do we need 10 pages to figure that out.
 

aspen

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Patrimony has dominated Christianity since Christ resurrected. Today we can finally recognize the important voice of women in the church
 

Strat

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How smart modern christians are,why heck.... it took all these years for these smart cookies to finally get it right...the bible actually speaks about it...how smart you are and everything....nothing makes a real man feel better than when a woman takes over.
 

aspen

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finally, men are starting to realize what the church has been missing and returning to a time when Jesus treating women equally to men
 

Arnie Manitoba

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In most homes and families it is the women and mothers who anchor and teach and promote and preserve Christianity.

Good Christian mothers can be the best teachers on the face of the earth and can have the most impact for good.

Women do not require a "pastor" or "teacher" label .

It is the men who prefer to have labels and then spend much of their time debating whether women should be allowed to teach and influence.

Shame on us men. Without Christian women we would all be pagans.


.
 

MTPockets

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At the outset, I wish to pointedly state that those who are acquainted with the gospel of the kingdom of heaven make no distinction between a man and woman.

The writer of Ecclesiastes stated, "I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life". (Eccl 2:3). Later, in Ecclesiastes 7:28 he wrote, "Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found".
It should be noted that the verse says that his search was conducted "under the heaven"; that is to say, on the earth. This is because the Old Covenant writer of Ecclesiastes did not know about the New Covenant where the people of God have a life and walk 'above the earth' in the kingdom of God. Heavenly places was foreign to the writer of Ecclesiastes.

Paul spoke of a wisdom not of this world; neither of the rulers of this age. In the heavenly realm, (the Kingdom of God), there are no Jews or Gentiles, freemen or slaves, men or women. There is no difference in sex in the heavenlies. The sexes are equal before God.

Paul shook the very foundations of the ancient world when he announced the spiritual emancipation of women saying, "You are all sons of God", and, "Here is no male and female", (Gal 3:26-28). The Pentecostal promise indeed speaks about sons and daughters who prophesy. The four daughters of Philip were prophetesses, (Acts 21:9). Paul also tells how some women along with him had fought in the preaching of the gospel, (Phil 4:3).

Once Peter had heard a voice from heaven saying, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common". This incident concerned the issue of Jew and Gentile. But is also indicated that, in the New Covenant, men and wives, sons and daughters, servants and handmaids all have equal footing. There is no difference between these groups and sexes in the New Testament church, (Acts 2:17-18).

A child of God lives and functions in two worlds: the spiritual and natural. There is a great danger in life that the rules and laws of the earth and that of the spiritual become intertwined. The writer of Hebrews admonishes: "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.", (Heb 2:1). In the kingdom of God, the man in Christ is an heir of God, joint heir with Christ and kings and priests in the spiritual world. Therefore, we acknowledge, "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you", (Luke 10:19).

But on this earth, God's people are meek and humble servants, "I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise", (Rom 1:14). Jesus said, "But whosoever will be great among you, (in the invisible world), let him be your minister, (in the visible world), and whosoever will be chief among you, (in the kingdom of God), let him be your servant (on earth)", (Matt 20:26-27).

The Apostle Paul faced both a great religious and cultural battle. For example, the Jewish Christians wanted the laws of the old or the earthly dispensation maintained. They observed the circumcision, the law of Sinai and the dietary laws. But Paul had learned that the faithful of God were justified by faith alone; without law. That God's people could only walk and live in the heavenly places through faith.

When a slave came to faith, he became a redeemed one in the heavenly regions. But on this earth was, "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed", (1Tim 6:1). God is no respecter of persons. While a rich or learned man may have much influence and power in this world, this does not presuppose that such a person should possess high esteem in the church. Neither do the properties of wealth automatically assign a prominent place in the church. When children of unconverted parents are born again and assume their place in the kingdom of heaven as God's children, the rules of the earth still remain effectual: "Honor thy father and thy mother, that it may go well and thou mayest live long on earth", (Eph 6:2-3).

Also, regarding children, this scripture always applies, "Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely", (Rev 22:17). While parents may demand obedience from their children on the earth, in the kingdom of heaven, these same children retain their individual authority and independence. Therefore, it's always the flesh which compels the indoctrination of children.

Let's closely examine the scripture saying, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord", (Eph 5:22).
Because Paul preached that there is neither male nor female in Christ and that both genders are equal children of God, many Christian women believed that, while here on earth, submission to their husband became unnecessary.

A woman with a task in the church does not go against God's intentions. Absolutely not! In the body of Christ, men and women, men and servants, Jews and Greeks are all equal. However, Paul also knew very well that this was not applicable to the natural/earthly life. By her marriage, the woman became under subjection to her husband. The admonition is: "Wives, submit to your husbands, as unto the Lord because the husband is the head of his wife, as Christ is head of the church", (Eph 5:22-23). In the spiritual world, both are equal. But in the natural world, the woman, (by entering into marriage), volunteered to become subordinate to her husband.

Does the Bible teach that women are to remain silent in the church?
The short answer is: No.
What about 1Cor 14:34-35 ?
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church".
When a married woman holds a leading position in the church, difficulties can oftentimes arise. For example, similar tensions can be observed when a father is also his son's school teacher or when a son is the foreman on the same factory floor as his father.

This particular scripture is speaking about the undesirable circumstance where a woman openly disputes her husband in public or opposes his thoughts and usurps his authority. Paul was saying that it was undesirable that a married woman who held a position in the church should put the marriage relationship at such awkward risk. This risk was an especially sensitive one in the middle-east culture. In order to prevent disputes between married couples in the church, the apostle wrote, "Let your [married] women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience [to their husbands], as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church", (1Cor 14:34-35).

Yet, let's be abundantly clear: Paul was in no way saying that the woman was somehow inferior to a man. The apostle repeatedly stated that both men and women are equal in the sight of the Lord. At the same time, Paul prayed for wisdom in order to avoid a collision in the practice of this 'kingdom insight'.

Paul further wrote, "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful", (1Cor 7:25). Note: that the widows are excluded from this subject. It would therefore remain possible that widows and young daughters could hold office in the church. But if these young women were to marry and widows would re-marry, the sensitive problem would begin again. Therefore, the Apostle further observed, "Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, ... But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry",(1Tim 5:9-12).

When a widow remarries, her first responsibility returns to the marital home and therefore she's not entirely free to work for the Lord to come. The apostle assumed that a widow over sixty who always lived with a man would not wish to re-marry. The condition for such unmarried women holding church office is: "Even so must their wives [*Or the women deacons. The Greek word can be translated women or wives*] be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things", (1Tim 3:11). (The original text does not include the word "their" wives).

It's not logical that the wives of deacons must meet certain conditions, while in the same chapter in vs3, no conditions were asked of the wife of the overseer. Even more obvious is that, while Paul accepted the appointment of a kind of deaconess, (1Tim 5:13), he does not agree with choosing female overseers.

The apostle wrote, "But I will not allow that a woman to teach or have authority over man",(1Tim 2:12). When Paul wrote, "I will not allow" or, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord", (1Cor 7:12), the apostle was admitting that he had no absolute command of the Lord. Instead, it was the Holy Spirit which led him to these conclusions; taking into account the circumstances and manners of his time. For example, a female bishop in the ancient world would be unacceptable to both the Jewish Christians and by most of the Gentiles. Paul continued saying, "But they will retain be bringing children into the world if they continue in faith, love and holiness, with modesty", (1Tim 2:15).

Therefore, Paul gave some commands and directives that only his era were intended. He also pointed to other churches which did not have such progressive practices. That's why he concluded this passage with the words: "We have such a habit, nor the churches of God.

The time of the spiritual emancipation for the woman has only just begun!
 

mjrhealth

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Just to think, one day christians will let God be God, and they will stop placing all these limits on Him then complaining when nothing happens, but guess what, God is going to use children, men and women, young and old of all nations and creeds to do His will because they choose to let God be God,and God doesnt care for your opinions, He will do what He is going to do whether you believe He can or not and with or without you. If you are a women and placed that foolish limit on God . than dont expect big things to happen for you have chosen to not let Him use you. Your choice not His.

In all His Love
 

aspen

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Just to think, one day christians will let God be God, and they will stop placing all these limits on Him then complaining when nothing happens, but guess what, God is going to use children, men and women, young and old of all nations and creeds to do His will because they choose to let God be God,and God doesnt care for your opinions, He will do what He is going to do whether you believe He can or not and with or without you. If you are a women and placed that foolish limit on God . than dont expect big things to happen for you have chosen to not let Him use you. Your choice not His.

In all His Love

But I am sure there will be Christians trying to argue with Him about what He really believes.....lol
 

101G

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Greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ.

2 MTPockets, mjrhealth,
I just read your post this morning. and to all the other true, and faithful christians in Christ Jesus who hold this same view, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN. yes we must fight the good fight of FAITH. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places". Ephesians 6:12. AMEN.

its good to hear, and to see believers who walk by faith, and not by sight, (or so called blind faith). for FAITH see very well, and is not blinded. amen.






The Word of the Day, "REVELATION"

another word for REVELATION is, surprise, shock, eye opener.


Have we been shocked, our eyes open, and what a surprise. that's God word, it's complete. as Gomer Pile said, surprise, surprise, surprise.



FOR WE WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT



Glory to JESUS.



Love and Peace

101G
 

neophyte

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While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38).
The early Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.
 

101G

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2 neophyte , greeting

While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:116), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:1114), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:3438).

The early Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.





that's the same old lame excuse men use, WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, OR WISDOM FROM ABOVE. these scripture have been dispel of their ignorance, by the TRUE LIGHT OF GOD. so you can try some else. that record is broken.

thanks, and be blessed.



Love and Peace

101G
 

neophyte

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101G, by whose Authority ?

While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38).
The early Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.
 

101G

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2 neophyte ,

you don't know what prophesying means, do you. listen, Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" what for?.
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ". question, how do one perfect saints?. by preaching and teaching about the kingdom. and if you will notice every, I mean every title, or function of leadership is to teach. be ye apostle, prophet, as you stated, (While women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:116), or any elder/overseer their basic job is to teach). all teach, even bishop, and deacons, as well as pastors. check it out in scriptures. what is the GREAT COMMISSION, Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". what did Jesus say, Luke 16:15 "And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it". that's who's AUTHORTY. John the Baptist was the Last Prophet to foretell of what was to Come. he was under the old covenant, or old testament. Matthews, Mark, Luke, and John is really old testament Books, not until Acts is the New testament. so all prophets preached the gospel, which some were women.

Prophets
G4396 prophetes (prof-ay'-tace) n.
1. a foreteller ("prophet")
2. (by analogy) an inspired speake3. (by extension) a poet
[from a compound of G4253 and G5346]
KJV: prophet
Root(s): G4253, G5346



[ 1,,G4396, prophetes ]
one who speaks forth or openly". "a proclaimer of a divine message," to proclaim is to preach, to cry out. it's not all about future events. but also the here and now. since that time of John the kingdom of God is preached, WHY? because the Kingdom is here. Prophets are preachers. but not all preachers are prophets, as well as with pastors, inspired speaker, who proclaims of a divine message from God.




Love and Peace

101G
 

101G

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Read those, and understood those scriptures, and your point?.
 

aspen

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Paul seems to be speaking a personal preference in Timothy about not allowing women to speak or teach. He does not say 'do not', he says 'I do not'

As always, it sure would been great to have the letters from the churches that Paul was responding to - it would clear up all sorts of ambiguity.
 

Jon-Marc

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The only way a woman could be a pastor is to have a church of just women and children--no men. Of course, it does seem to be just Paul's personal opinion about women not teaching or having authority over men, and I tend to agree with him--be it God's words or not.
 

101G

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Well there was a church in the wilderness full of MEN, women, and children, Scripture, Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". Israel was that church in the wilderness. and a WOMAN name, Judges 4:4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time". and this woman was over MEN, and judge them, and all of Israel came unto her. scripture, Judges 4:5 "And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment". LOL. in the old testament, the highest office any MAN could hold was prophet, and a WOMAN held it, and get this by GOD APPROVAL. Glory to Jesus.



Well, well, well, by your own words, Jesus/God can make a way. since you said, "The only way a woman could be a pastor is to have a church of just women and children--no men".

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible".



"with men this is impossible", I recommend a Church Lead woman Pastor, (smile).

Love and Peace
101G