The Trinity in the OT

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Stan

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There is no trinity in the bible. Least not in Mat 28:19

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The highlighted words were translated and tainted by the fear of the catholic Church. The wording "and of the" is not in the original text.
Translated says The head of the household, the Son, the Holy Breath.

Christ shed light on the fact that God and the Holy Spirit are the same.

John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Christ also shed Light on the fact that He is the father.

John 14
9 --------- He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Backed up by Paul here.
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Matthew 28:19 in five versions; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028:19&version=MOUNCE;NIV;NASB;HCSB;PHILLIPS

The Hebrew word 'Elohiym' in Gen 1:1 and throughout the OT is used to identify the one True God. This word is a plural intensive word but used as a singular masculine noun. AS we are tripartite beings, made in "our image", as depicted in Gen 1:26-27, we also exist as 3-in-1.
 

us2are1

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Matthew 28:19 in five versions; http://www.biblegate...B;HCSB;PHILLIPS

The Hebrew word 'Elohiym' in Gen 1:1 and throughout the OT is used to identify the one True God. This word is a plural intensive word but used as a singular masculine noun. AS we are tripartite beings, made in "our image", as depicted in Gen 1:26-27, we also exist as 3-in-1.

That post was nothing more than a smoke screen. Tripartite, triune, trinity, all added nonsense which is not in scripture.
 

Trekson

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With a couple exceptions all I'm seeing is a total non-comprehension of Unity. As we are body (fleshly shell), soul (our eternal nature) and spirit (who we are eternally, how we will be known), so is God united as three. Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Comforter). Each aspect is spoken of several times in the NT and two of them in the OT.

It is not significant that the trinity (as a word) isn't in the OT, because it wasn't their (Israel's) concern. Since we know that Jesus is the word, every time God spoke in the OT, Christ was utilized. The ten commandments, written, not spoken was God the Father and the spirit of God is often mentioned and shown. The Holy Spirit is who resided in the Holy of Holies. In Rev. We have the Father on the throne, Jesus at His right hand, and the HS is the light of heaven that shines around the throne.

Deny all you want but take care Matt. 12:31- "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [sup]32 [/sup]And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

In my opinion, denying His existence, separate from God is coming close to blasphemy.
 

us2are1

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With a couple exceptions all I'm seeing is a total non-comprehension of Unity. As we are body (fleshly shell), soul (our eternal nature) and spirit (who we are eternally, how we will be known), so is God united as three. Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Comforter). Each aspect is spoken of several times in the NT and two of them in the OT.

It is not significant that the trinity (as a word) isn't in the OT, because it wasn't their (Israel's) concern. Since we know that Jesus is the word, every time God spoke in the OT, Christ was utilized. The ten commandments, written, not spoken was God the Father and the spirit of God is often mentioned and shown. The Holy Spirit is who resided in the Holy of Holies. In Rev. We have the Father on the throne, Jesus at His right hand, and the HS is the light of heaven that shines around the throne.

Deny all you want but take care Matt. 12:31- "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [sup]32 [/sup]And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

In my opinion, denying His existence, separate from God is coming close to blasphemy.

The flesh is the only thing that needs unity.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

You see the soul consists of the body of dust and the breath of Life from God.

But God needs no body of dust and he created the breath of life. No trinity there.
 

Stan

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That post was nothing more than a smoke screen. Tripartite, triune, trinity, all added nonsense which is not in scripture.

Well I'm sorry you can't see this. I guess there is some kind of smoke, which seems to be effecting your perceptions.
Maybe you can supply some scripture that supports God is NOT tripartite?
Who do you think "us" is in Gen 1:26?

The flesh is the only thing that needs unity.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

You see the soul consists of the body of dust and the breath of Life from God.

But God needs no body of dust and he created the breath of life. No trinity there.

The breath of God is more than life, or we would be the same as the animals. They are not made in His image, we are. The breath of life animates us as it does the animals. Our spirit/soul/mind is in addition to what the animals received. They don't know they are alive, we do. The fact that you can't see the difference between man and animals is a little disconcerting.
 

us2are1

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Well I'm sorry you can't see this. I guess there is some kind of smoke, which seems to be effecting your perceptions.
Maybe you can supply some scripture that supports God is NOT tripartite?
Who do you think "us" is in Gen 1:26?



The breath of God is more than life, or we would be the same as the animals. They are not made in His image, we are. The breath of life animates us as it does the animals. Our spirit/soul/mind is in addition to what the animals received. They don't know they are alive, we do. The fact that you can't see the difference between man and animals is a little disconcerting.

I gave you the scripture and you still want to add the nonsense to it.

Deuteronomy 6
4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Zechariah 14
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The Lord is one," And His name one.

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

God was talking to His Son and the saints in Gen 1:26
 

Stan

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I gave you the scripture and you still want to add the nonsense to it.

Deuteronomy 6
4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Zechariah 14
9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The Lord is one," And His name one.

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

God was talking to His Son and the saints in Gen 1:26

Well if you could be a little more cohesive it would help.

Yes God is ONE, 3-in-1. Just like you have 3 parts to your being, Body, Mind and Soul, constituting one person or entity.

God was talking to His son before he was born? What saints would God be talking to in Gen 1:26? There were saints before God created life? Talk about nonsense.
 

us2are1

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Well if you could be a little more cohesive it would help.

Yes God is ONE, 3-in-1. Just like you have 3 parts to your being, Body, Mind and Soul, constituting one person or entity.

God was talking to His son before he was born? What saints would God be talking to in Gen 1:26? There were saints before God created life? Talk about nonsense.

Being one is not three in one. Nor is there a scripture anywhere that says that. At all.
Why do you insist on adding nonsense to scripture?

Christ is the first born over all creation.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
 

Stan

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Being one is not three in one. Nor is there a scripture anywhere that says that. At all.
Why do you insist on adding nonsense to scripture?

Christ is the first born over all creation.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

and yet you are 3-in-1, or do you not exist? Ignoring scripture that shows this and people that point out these scriptures does not support your assertions...AT ALL.
Why do you insist on using the word nonsense? The concept IS there even if you don't see it.

Being the firstborn OVER all creation is not the same as being the firstborn IN creation. Before Christ was actually born of Mary, He is one with God the Father. John 10:30
The Bible says in many scriptures that Christ is God's son and that the two are one. So is it you only believe in a duopartite God? I hope you understand the difference between 'foreordained', and 'manifest'?
It would be proper for you to show the actual scripture reference, instead of just verse numbers.
Heb 4:3 actually reads; For we who have believed do enter that rest, just as God has said, “As I swore in my anger, ‘They shall certainly not enter my rest,’” and yet his work has been completed since the foundation of the world.
Doesn't really say what you are trying to make it say. This could be why you do not see the concept. You are too busy practising eisegesis.
 

jerzy

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Matthew 28:19 in five versions;

The question is why there is no record of anybody baptized according to Mt 28:19 formula? Why all on record were baptized into the single name?

Was Peter wrong in Ac 2: 38?

The Hebrew word 'Elohiym' in Gen 1:1 and throughout the OT is used to identify the one True God. This word is a plural intensive word but used as a singular masculine noun. AS we are tripartite beings, made in "our image", as depicted in Gen 1:26-27, we also exist as 3-in-1.

Elim is a proper plural of El & Elohyim rather denoting God of gods.

Besides, God is not a man.

Man was created as God's "representative figure" not as God's mirror image.

Our “three in one” is a mixture of an old English with scriptures meanings influenced by the Trinitarian unbiblical “view/concept” referring to something else.
 

us2are1

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and yet you are 3-in-1, or do you not exist? Ignoring scripture that shows this and people that point out these scriptures does not support your assertions...AT ALL.
Why do you insist on using the word nonsense? The concept IS there even if you don't see it.

Being the firstborn OVER all creation is not the same as being the firstborn IN creation. Before Christ was actually born of Mary, He is one with God the Father. John 10:30
The Bible says in many scriptures that Christ is God's son and that the two are one. So is it you only believe in a duopartite God? I hope you understand the difference between 'foreordained', and 'manifest'?
It would be proper for you to show the actual scripture reference, instead of just verse numbers.
Heb 4:3 actually reads; For we who have believed do enter that rest, just as God has said, “As I swore in my anger, ‘They shall certainly not enter my rest,’” and yet his work has been completed since the foundation of the world.
Doesn't really say what you are trying to make it say. This could be why you do not see the concept. You are too busy practising eisegesis.

Babel around the bush. There is no trinity or triune or three in one in scripture at all anywhere. There is however One God who if He does not fill you with His Spirit you will not be saved.

The question is why there is no record of anybody baptized according to Mt 28:19 formula? Why all on record were baptized into the single name?

Was Peter wrong in Ac 2: 38?



Elim is a proper plural of El & Elohyim rather denoting God of gods.

Besides, God is not a man.

Man was created as God's "representative figure" not as God's mirror image.

Our “three in one” is a mixture of an old English with scriptures meanings influenced by the Trinitarian unbiblical “view/concept” referring to something else.

Amen jerzy
 

jerzy

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It is not significant that the trinity (as a word) isn't in the OT, because it wasn't their (Israel's) concern.

Neither was it God's concern to inform them about such a monumental truth.

Hmmmm!!!!

Since we know that Jesus is the word...

You need to tell this to the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.

John referred to Isa 55:11.

Logos never denotes Jesus.

God the Father and the spirit of God...

Why not God the Spirit?

Deny all you want but take care Matt. 12:31- "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [sup]32 [/sup]And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
1. The Father is not mentioned.
2. Jesus is lesser than the Holy Ghost.

In my opinion, denying His existence, separate from God is coming close to blasphemy.
You based your opinion on man made story.
You need to get rid of it and consider hundreds of proof texts which make it clear that those who trample upon them and make themselves other "Gods" are blaspheming (and are accursed) the Father the only one true God.

Maybe you can supply some scripture that supports God is NOT tripartite?

You don't seem to know that God speaks about things that are.

Here are some of hundreds proof texts you trample upon in order of promoting the unbiblical theology (the two "Gods" of 325 were declared unbiblical in 357 but had to become politically correct with addition of the third "God" in 381):

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob YHWH).
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
 

Stan

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The question is why there is no record of anybody baptized according to Mt 28:19 formula? Why all on record were baptized into the single name?
Was Peter wrong in Ac 2: 38?



There is no record of a lot of people getting baptized. Doesn't meran it didn't happen. Jesus gave His Great Commission to the Apostles and we have no evidence to the contrary that they did NOT follow His commands. Giving instruction to the new converts and actually performing the act are not the same. Assuming that Jesus' Apostles did NOT obey Him, does not make it so.
John 21:25 gives us a good idea about what is contained in scripture. God saw fit that it contained enough.





Elim is a proper plural of El & Elohyim rather denoting God of gods.

Besides, God is not a man.

Man was created as God's "representative figure" not as God's mirror image.

Our “three in one” is a mixture of an old English with scriptures meanings influenced by the Trinitarian unbiblical “view/concept” referring to something else.

Elim is a place, NOT a plural descriptive. Elohyim is the plural of God. Glad you know God is NOT man. God is tripartite, as are we. That is the image. The fact that Jesus Himself spoke of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that the Apostles were to baptize in their name should be sufficient for anyone to see the sound doctrine. Ignoring a clear concept means you don't accept who God is, and therefore who Jesus is.
God said "Let US make man in OUR image", not, let us make a representative figure.
Ignoring proper Biblical exegesis and what Jesus Himself said, really means you are building your house on sand.... it will fall.
 

jerzy

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There is no record of a lot of people getting baptized. Doesn't meran it didn't happen. Jesus gave His Great Commission to the Apostles and we have no evidence to the contrary that they did NOT follow His commands. Giving instruction to the new converts and actually performing the act are not the same. Assuming that Jesus' Apostles did NOT obey Him, does not make it so.


Firstly, God must have proven with miracles following Peter and Paul that they were acting against His command.

Secondly, the word "onoma" didn't mean what we know it today. Mt 2:19 is not a Trinitarian proof text of Trinity God.

Thirdly, the texts critics suggest that the baptismal part was added circa 130-140.

John 21:25 gives us a good idea about what is contained in scripture. God saw fit that it contained enough.

God doesn't contradict Himself.

Elim is a place, .

I got this from Jewish Rabies.

God is tripartite...

You must tell about this to the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.

The fact that Jesus Himself spoke of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and that the Apostles were to baptize in their name should be sufficient for anyone to see the sound doctrine.

So was doctrine of the three heavenly witnesses in 1Jn 5:7 for some time.

Ignoring a clear concept means you don't accept who God is, and therefore who Jesus is.

Man's concept faints in the light of God's word which is truth:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
God said "Let US make man in OUR image", not, let us make a representative figure.

Did you hear what God said or you heard people say this to account for the two Gods theology of 325 which was declared unbiblical in 357 but had to be politically corrected with addition of the third "God"?

Ignoring proper Biblical exegesis and what Jesus Himself said, really means you are building your house on sand.... it will fall.

Why would we have to trample upon hundreds of proof texts which clearly state over and over from different perspectives that the Father is the only one true God?
 

Stan

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Babel around the bush. There is no trinity or triune or three in one in scripture at all anywhere. There is however One God who if He does not fill you with His Spirit you will not be saved.

Babel around the bush?
Nice way to go completely off track. Now the HOLY SPIRIT saves us? Not Jesus? Talk about babbling.
Obviously you are an untamed ornathoid which I will not longer pursue.
 

Trekson

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"I got this from Jewish Rabies." LOL! That explains a lot!
 

Stan

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You don't seem to know that God speaks about things that are.

Here are some of hundreds proof texts you trample upon in order of promoting the unbiblical theology (the two "Gods" of 325 were declared unbiblical in 357 but had to become politically correct with addition of the third "God" in 381):

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob YHWH).
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Quite onerous and yet NO support whatsoever, to indicate the lack of the Trinity. Summits of the 4th century do NOT influence me, I have God's Word to look at. I don't need Papal summits to tell me what the truth is of God's Word, and neither should you. Unless of course you are RCC or UPC? Are you Islam? They don't believe in the Trinity either. Of course they HAVE reason.

You ignore Matthew 28:19, and John 14:16. You ignore 1 John, and 2 Cor 13:14, and Acts 2:33. There is also proof, if you take them out of context, that God is a duality. Of course that is wrong given all the other scriptures, but I see no one being able to explain Jesus' comment, "The Father and I are one". If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both advocates sent from the Father, what does that imply?

Firstly, God must have proven with miracles following Peter and Paul that they were acting against His command.

Secondly, the word "onoma" didn't mean what we know it today. Mt 2:19 is not a Trinitarian proof text of Trinity God.

Thirdly, the texts critics suggest that the baptismal part was added circa 130-140.



1st. What does this mean? Peter and Paul were committed to Jesus. No proof was necessary. What kind of supposition is this?

2nd. We're NOT talking about Matthew 2:19, maybe that is your problem, you don't know what we are talking about? The Greek word "onoma" means the same today as it did then. Vine's writes;
for all that a "name" implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the "name" covers:
Three names, three characters, three ranks, three authorities, three majesties, 3-in-1.

3rd. At this point, it is customary to provide citations when you allude to an authority or scholar of the Bible. Maybe your forgot?



God doesn't contradict Himself.

Quite right, and how does this pertain to John 21:25?


I got this from Jewish Rabies.


Well I suggest you get yourself a properly taught Rabbi. You could try looking it up in a Jewish Biblical Dictionary.


You must tell about this to the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.


They already knew this, as did Jesus and His Apostles.



So was doctrine of the three heavenly witnesses in 1Jn 5:7 for some time.

You don't accept 1John 5:7? Verse 10 says you are a liar if you don't. Are you a liar?




Man's concept faints in the light of God's word which is truth:
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

OK well if you really believe that then here Jesus is talking about Himself in the 3rd person, so was Jesus NOT truly God? If He was God, then God is a dual God as Jesus said, "If you're seen me you've seen the father." Now which one of Christ's statements are you going to believe? One, two, three, or ALL of them.




Did you hear what God said or you heard people say this to account for the two Gods theology of 325 which was declared unbiblical in 357 but had to be politically corrected with addition of the third "God"?


I already told you what I think of these past ecumenical summits. Do you believe them or God's Word? You need to learn to think for yourself and NOT let others do it for you. Do you believe God's Word, the Bible, or NOT?




Why would we have to trample upon hundreds of proof texts which clearly state over and over from different perspectives that the Father is the only one true God?

Well if the scriptures you provided actually supported your assertions I would understand your concern, but, they DON'T. In their context they are definitely God's true Word. However you are using them in an eisegetical way and NOT an exegetical way. There is a big difference. God is one God, the true God, the ONLY God, and He exists as a triune being. Suggesting we refer to Him as Father and not recognize the Son in Him and the motherly Holy Spirit, is a great contradiction to say the least.
 

jerzy

New Member
Sep 7, 2012
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"I got this from Jewish Rabies." LOL! That explains a lot!

Why?

name='Stan' timestamp='1347491307' post='165771'
Quite onerous and yet NO support whatsoever, to indicate the lack of the Trinity.

Perhaps you quote that text using the word Trinity in any circumstances instead of running away from hundreds of proof texts making it absolutely clear that the Father is the only one true God.

I have God's Word to look at.

Perhaps you need stronger glasses to find that text.

Are you Islam?

Are you trying a tested label?

You ignore Matthew 28:19, and John 14:16. You ignore 1 John, and 2 Cor 13:14, and Acts 2:33.

Why don't you highlight the part stating that there are three Gods or that God is Trinity?

You provide proof of your defeat by such lengthy elaboration without a single supporting proof text..

Another words, you are offering fables which you know from man not from God's word.

"The Father and I are one".

Please highlight the part stating that there are three Gods or that God is Trinity.

If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both advocates sent from the Father, what does that imply?

Are you asking a question or providing a proof?

The Greek word "onoma" means the same today as it did then.

It also has other meanings but you don't want to know it.

Vine's writes;
for all that a "name" implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the "name" covers:
Three names, three characters, three ranks, three authorities, three majesties, 3-in-1.

The word "onoma" is used once. Glasses????

3rd. At this point, it is customary to provide citations when you allude to an authority or scholar of the Bible. Maybe your forgot?

With pleasure:

Early church fathers like Eusebius quoted Matthew 28:19 without using the trin formula. He quoted it eighteen times using the words, "baptizing in my name".

He died about 340 AD

There is too many to quote all:

The Jerusalem Bible 1966 (a Roman Catholic production) has this footnote to Matthew 28:19. "It may be that this formula... is a reflection of the liturgical usage established later in the primitive community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptism in the name of Jesus."

http://www.godglorified.com/collection_of_evidence.htm

Quite right, and how does this pertain to John 21:25?

Did you happen to get to know more than is written?

Where from?

Well I suggest you get yourself a properly taught Rabbi. You could try looking it up in a Jewish Biblical Dictionary.

One wonders who may know better Hebrew, the one who was toughed by a Trinitarian teacher or a Hebrew.

They already knew this, as did Jesus and His Apostles.

So they lied and you discovered this.

Hmmmm!!!!

You don't accept 1John 5:7? Verse 10 says you are a liar if you don't. Are you a liar?

Stop joking because I don't believe that you are unaware about insertion of the three heavenly witnesses to in 1Jn 5:7.

OK well if you really believe that then here Jesus is talking about Himself in the 3rd person...

Soooo????

...so was Jesus NOT truly God?

Highlight this part.

Besides, what happen to the third God?

If He was God, then God is a dual God as Jesus said, "If you're seen me you've seen the father."

Really?

Didn't you miss something here?

Joh 12:48 ...the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Joh 14:10...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name...

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Well if the scriptures you provided actually supported your assertions I would understand your concern, but, they DON'T. In their context they are definitely God's true Word. However you are using them in an eisegetical way and NOT an exegetical way.

You mean that I don't "modify" them but merely consider as truth.

Hmmmm!!!!

Did you miss this one to?

Joh 17:17...thy word is truth.

There is a big difference. God is one God, the true God, the ONLY God, and He exists as a triune being.

Text, please.

Suggesting we refer to Him as Father and not recognize the Son in Him and the motherly Holy Spirit, is a great contradiction to say the least.

Text, please.
 

jerzy

New Member
Sep 7, 2012
113
0
0
Jerzy, please fix your post if you want a response from me.

I am having problem with the program kicking me out for using of too many tags.

Let me highlight your parts then.


Quite onerous and yet NO support whatsoever, to indicate the lack of the Trinity.

Perhaps you quote that text using the word Trinity in any circumstances instead of running away from hundreds of proof texts making it absolutely clear that the Father is the only one true God.
I have God's Word to look at.

Perhaps you need stronger glasses to find that text.

Are you Islam?

Are you trying a tested label?

You ignore Matthew 28:19, and John 14:16. You ignore 1 John, and 2 Cor 13:14, and Acts 2:33.

Why don't you highlight the part stating that there are three Gods or that God is Trinity?

You provide proof of your defeat by such lengthy elaboration without a single supporting proof text..

Another words, you are offering fables which you know from man not from God's word.

"The Father and I are one".

Please highlight the part stating that the Father and the Son is one and the same entity.

If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both advocates sent from the Father, what does that imply?

Are you asking a question or providing a proof?

The Greek word "onoma" means the same today as it did then.

It also has other meanings but you don't want to know it.

Vine's writes;
for all that a "name" implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the "name" covers:
Three names, three characters, three ranks, three authorities, three majesties, 3-in-1.


The word "onoma" is used once. Glasses????

3rd. At this point, it is customary to provide citations when you allude to an authority or scholar of the Bible. Maybe your forgot?

With pleasure:

Early church fathers like Eusebius quoted [url="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matthew%2028.19"]Matthew 28:19[/url] without using the trin formula. He quoted it eighteen times using the words, "baptizing in my name".

He died about 340 AD

There is too many to quote all:

The Jerusalem Bible 1966 has this footnote to Matthew 28:19. "It may be that this formula... is a reflection of the liturgical usage established later in the primitive community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptism in the name of Jesus."

Quite right, and how does this pertain to John 21:25?

Did you happen to get to know more than is written?

Where from?

Well I suggest you get yourself a properly taught Rabbi. You could try looking it up in a Jewish Biblical Dictionary.

One wonders who may know better Hebrew, the one who was toughed by a Trinitarian teacher or a Hebrew.

They already knew this, as did Jesus and His Apostles.

So they lied and you discovered it.

Hmmmm!!!!

You don't accept 1John 5:7? Verse 10 says you are a liar if you don't. Are you a liar?

Stop joking because I don't believe that you are unaware about insertion of the three heavenly witnesses into 1Jn 5:7.

OK well if you really believe that then here Jesus is talking about Himself in the 3rd person...

Soooo????

jerzy also says he believes that God's word is truth.

Does thi form change jerzy's nature?

...so was Jesus NOT truly God?

Highlight this part.

If He was God, then God is a dual God as Jesus said, "If you're seen me you've seen the father."

Really?

Didn't you miss something here?

Joh 12:48 ...the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Joh 14:10...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name...

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Well if the scriptures you provided actually supported your assertions I would understand your concern, but, they DON'T. In their context they are definitely God's true Word. However you are using them in an eisegetical way and NOT an exegetical way.

You mean that I don't "modify" them but merely consider as truth.

Hmmmm!!!!

Did you miss this one to?

Joh 17:17...thy word is truth.

There is a big difference. God is one God, the true God, the ONLY God, and He exists as a triune being.

Text, please.

Besides, God is nbot a bveing, not matter. God created matter.

Suggesting we refer to Him as Father and not recognize the Son in Him and the motherly Holy Spirit, is a great contradiction to say the least.

Text, please.