A new thread on prophecy

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LambOfChrist

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Okay, here we are. Now I want you to set aside all that you have learned and come as a child, just as Jesus said we need to, and see what you can see. We must start from Genesis because there is s revelation there that has been lost for decades that will open up prophetic scripture like you have never seen before, if you are willing.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Understand that there were no heavens or earth before this. It was God and God alone. He must have been lonely. I think His memory of how lonely it was has kept Him with His mind on the task at hand. God created the heavens and the earth. Case closed. There was no big bang or recreation of what was before as many believe. No, there was one beginning of all that is and God was there alone. Within Him was the word and the word started in Genesis 1:1

As time began there was no physical earth. It was just a vast ocean called the earth. There was no rock or island or core. It was just a vast ocean the size that we cannot comprehend. It was empty and void; it had no form as yet. There was darkness at the depths. It was a darkness that we can only imagine. The Spirit of God hovered, fluttering, brooding over His creation. His plan was about to begin.


Now look what Peter said and see if it does not say the same thing.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Let’s see what came next:
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

How did God create the light? According to this word he said let there be light, or some would say, “Light BE” Instantly light appeared. I don’t believe this was the spiritual light of God for God is light and He did not create himself. He was there hovering before he spoke the light into being. No this was natural light. Natural light is given when energy is released. I believe this light was a sudden release of energy into the very core of the vast ocean that was there at the beginning. Does this make sense? Let’s look what would happen when the energy was released. Humor me.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

The word firmament simply means sky or atmosphere. What would happen if you released energy into the center of a vast ocean? Would it not boil? Would it not separate the oxygen that is in the water from the hydrogen? Would this separation not cause bubbles of oxygen and bubbles of hydrogen to form and would these bubbles not rise to the surface? They surely would and in a universe such as Genesis 1. With the ocean that we see there, these bubbles would head for the outer extremities of the universe.

But wait! This does not describe what happened on the second day. There was water above the firmament yes, so the bubbles could be true, but there was also water below the firmament. How does that make sense?

Well we live on an earth that is full of minerals. There is gold, silver, iron, salt, lime etc, etc. All of these minerals are in water. If you have water that has too much iron in it and you boil all of the water away, the iron will be left and stay in the pot. We used to live in a place where there was a lot of lime in the water. The pots were always getting coated with lime deposits and it was really hard to clean them. So we have all of the minerals in the earth. Is it possible that they were in this vast ocean before God said let there be light?

When you boil something here on the earth it is drawn by gravity to the bottom and sides of the boiling pot. However, before there was an earth the only gravity was in the ocean itself. So, when the energy was released and the hydrogen and oxygen bubbles were formed, the minerals were separated as well but they were not drawn out of the bubbles by gravity but rather remained in the center of the bubbles as molten minerals. These bubbles were huge like the size of the earth or mars or Jupiter and some even bigger. As they floated to the outer surface of the universe many things happened. The heat from the cores evaporated even more of the water at the edge of the bubbles causing more minerals to fall into the middle core. Some bubbles would have bumped others and joined together with their nucleus joining and doubling in size. Each bubble was the beginning of a planet, a moon or a star. As this heat from their cores evaporated the water in the universe the gravity of the cores drew the water into them until all of the universe was nothing but a vacuum and each newly formed star or planet found itself eventually caught in the gravity of its neighboring stars etc until all became what we see today with galaxies and planets and stars etc.

As the waters of the universe were drawn into each of the newly forming planets the water eventually overwhelmed the heat of the core and a crust formed and an ocean soon covered the surface. There was water above the firmament and water below the firmament just as scripture declares.

But here is where it gets interesting and here is where no-one has gone before.

What would be happening through all of this beneath the surface of the core planet?

In its initial state it should have been more gas than liquid. The center of gravity would be at the very core of the planet itself. However, as soon as the crust was formed over the surfacethe crust took on a gravity of its own. Between the new crust and the molten core the gasses turned to liquid as cooling took place. The liquid would be drawn one of 2 ways. Into the core or to the inner surface of the crust. The result is a cavity and a vacuum separating the core from the inner surface. The force of this vacuum drawing on the crust became so great that it finally broke the crust at the weakest points. The poles. Centrifugal force would have cause the most build up of flowing molten mineral rock to be concentrated at the equator.

When the crust broke open the force was so great that it sucked the ocean of water from the outside surface that hid the outside crust from view, into the inner cavity and the gravity of the inner surface held this ocean to its surface cooling the flowing molten minerals to form a crust inside. The earth must have cracked like an egg but the combination of the gravity and the weight of the new atmosphere outside held the earth from floating into space in this new balance.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The earth is hollow. If you can see this then you can soon understand the beast of Revelation 9 and the locust etc. So many scriptures will take on a whole new meaning. Science will take on a new understanding as the sucking in of the ocean at the cold poles caused the freeze up that caused the ice age. This was not an age of millions of years. It was a short cause and effect that resulted in the birth of the earth as we know it. Only after the so called ice age did the seeds begin to bring forth plants and trees.

Now let’s skip forward to the time of the flood. It was about 1500 years, give or take. The earth’s outer surface was a blossoming giant planet, in our perspective. But again, what was taking place inside? With a star caught at the very core suspended far above the inner surface with an ocean covering the interior. The earth was likely only a third or half the size that it is now. The heat and humidity caused by the inner star shining down on the surface of the ocean slowly eroded the ice built up at the poles. The ice was like a cork holing the water inside until it eroded enough that the pressure that built up inside burst the poles open in a furious blast that caused the crust to split even more and the planet floated outward expanding the cavity but balance was found again and the earth remained, bigger and better.

God watched as the earth approached this great calamity. He rose up a preacher whose name was Noah and told him to prepare himself an ark. He would save His prize creation from the disaster that would befall the human race.

Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

When the atmosphere inside rose out here it pushed the protective ozone layer to new heights. Before the flood a mist went up and watered the whole earth. But now the humid atmosphere rose to heights where it cooled and created rain clouds. Such was the storm and so much was the water that flowed from beneath that the whole earth was flooded. Before the flood the sea level was perhaps 5000 feet below what it was after the waters settled. This is why we see rivers cut in the ocean flood thousands of feet below sea level. This is why Pyramids were able to be built below the sea level off the coast of South America. It was because there was no water there before the flood. When a new balance was reached the sea level had changed forever. The earth had expanded to close to its present size and the continents were forever divided.

But the story of creation does not end here.

Isaiah 13: 9 to 13 tell us that the Lord will remove the earth from its place because of the wickedness of man. God puts all of his emphasis on punishing the wicked but he has another purpose that is necessary for the survival of the earth as well. God works all things according to the council of His will. He works the punishment of the wicked and he works creation of the earth all in one motion.

There are many places in scripture that tell of the asteroid that will very soon meet the earth. It is in Joel 2, Isaiah, Mathew, Mark, Luke, Peter, and Revelation, to mention a few that come to mind. Study each of these to see the circumstances and they all speak of the punishment of the wicked. But when you understand what I have explained you can see the hand of the creator as well.

Revelation 8 is the real clincher. It is exactly what it says it is. A star (asteroid) comes in and strikes the earth with such a blow that it knocks the earth out of its place. It lands in the sea to soften the blow and do less damage while still accomplishing the moving of the planet. Like a swoosh instead of a smack. A third of the sun is struck, a third of the moon, a third of the stars, nigh, day and light. In other words it will be spinning faster by one third. It will be reeling like a drunkard as I believe Isaiah put it.

But again, what happens inside the earth when this happens. Did you know that there are people living in the earth on the surface opposite to us just like in the move Journey to the Center of the Earth? Yes and they have a king over them. His name is Abaddon in the Hebrew and Apollyon on the Greek. In English he is the destroyer. You can read all about him in Revelation 9. He is the one who will sit in the yet not built Temple of God and proclaim himself God.

You see when the star hits out here it moves the earth and the star inside that is hung so carefully above the surface will be moved from center and come crashing down inside. This star is approximately 500 miles in diameter. It will splash onto the forests below and light an inferno that may never be extinguished. Revelation tells us He put the light out in the beast’s kingdom. This king has no choice. To survive he must take over the surface world. He will be here for 5 months. Then Jesus will through him back into the lake of fire that was once his home inside.

Can you see these things? If you can then you know that many scriptures concerning the end times have been miss-understood. Let me see who can understand and we can continue to help each other grow in understanding and be a true witness to a dying world. They won’t believe us now but when the word unfolds they will have no choice but to believe. Perhaps they will then repent.
 

whitestone

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The Word became flesh, and men loved darkness rather than light. So says John at the beginning of his Gospel.

Nothing has changed for 2000 years. It is still the same.

I have been being a witness to a dying world for several decades now, just as my brethren have been in centuries prior. And through His Body of Saints, Christ will continue to witness to a dead world clear until the end. No new news about any of this.

But I was wondering where the "prophecy" part of this topic will begin. Let us see where prophecies have come true. Now THAT is what I thought you were introducing here Lamb.

I'm not here to read about someone's "future" ideas, for there is nothing of interest there for me, other than preaching the Gospel and men being saved. After all, per my Father, I do not take thought for tomorrow.

(Mat 6:34)

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
 

LambOfChrist

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The prophecy part of this is that the beast who ascends from the pit is the beast who ascends from the pit. He is not the little horn or the prince of the people or the king of the north or the white pope or the black pope or the president of the US or the prime minister of England or anyone else that lives on the earth today. He is the beast who lives in the earth. He once lived out here but he went inside and will come back out after his world is destroyed.

It is prophecy that there will be an asteroid hit but here it explained why this must come. The word said if not for God no flesh would survive. If the asteroid does not hit then the whole earth will be destroyed in time. With the revelation of a hollow earth the earth appears very fragile compared to the solid earth. The intent of nature is that the earth explodes and the star at the center should be set free. God has made a plan to destroy the star and save the planet.

There is an asteroid belt this side of Jupiter that orbits in the exact place where a planet should be. It is no doubt a planet that did explode. Beneath the crust are many oil deposits and gas deposits and below these lava flows. On the surface man in his great wisdom has wrapped the earth in a web of oil and gas pipelines and built nuclear power plants in strategic places around fault lines. Scientists are predicting a great cataclysmic movement of the crust in the next 200 years.

With this understanding prophecy becomes easier to understand.

When the star hits and the earth spins faster centrifugal force will increase at the equator ant the water at the poles will be drawn away revealing the hole leading inside. The Smoke like the smoke of a great furnace will be released from the pit. There will be enough smoke to block out the sun and the moon will turn red as the atmosphere is filled with the gases released in the smoke from the forest fires inside the pit.

Is this not prophecy that the locust will ascend from the pit and there king with them. Now these things can be understood.

As for when this will take place the word is very clear. A 7 year covenant must be signed, then in the midst of the 7 an abomination will be placed on the Holy Mount. Just prior to this Jerusalem will be surrounded by the armies of the little horn. Then the Israelis will be taken out of Israel by force to Greece and any other country that will allow them refuge. This is the great tribulation and should not take more than a year or so. Then they will cry peace and safety for the Jews have been removed. It is then that the asteroid will hit. The pit be opened and the king of the underworld revealed who will sit in the temple of God in Israel and proclaim he is God. They are only here for 5 months and then Jesus will return and throw this king back into the pit where the inner world has become an inferno that will burn for eternity.

The covenant was confirmed on Jan 1[sup]st[/sup] 2007 by Jovier Solana. Daniel 8 reveals there are 2300 days and then the abomination is set up and the temple court yard will be turned over to the gentiles for 3 ½ years. This should take place on April 18[sup]th[/sup] based on the covenant of 2007. It won’t take long for the Masons to build the temple once they control the mount.

There are many miss-conceptions taught as truth. Each error is built on to come to a totally false understanding of prophecy. However, the word will not pass away until every jot and tittle is fulfilled.

This is prophecy.
 

MTPockets

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I guess I'd better git meself sum ov dat "Shake n' Bake' an' turn on a Jerry Lee Lewis tune 'cuz it lookin' like a whole lotta' shakin' iz goin' on - (heads that is).
:)
 

Risen Angel

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I thought you wanted to talk prophecy.

You are mixing convoluted science to shape something that I doubt very much that you have 'seen,' catch me?

What is it that you hope to accomplish besides driving yourself insane? What is it that you are trying so desperately to understand? I can see clearly that you are driven to explain these events transpiring within your mind, but have you questioned their source; have you gone to God and simply asked?

I have noticed over time in my friends that people who search for the cryptic message in scripture are often captured by Satan in their attempt; do you understand? Prophets have seen the world end, yes; but, the word of God is not a roadmap to destruction: it is his communication of salvation, and the introduction of Jesus to us. He is the reason the scripture was written; he is the word.

I've heard it said that the scriptures are God's letter written to us. He reveals himself not only within the pages of the book, but in the lives of those who seek and love him. He is my salvation, he is my love, he is my everything; and, when destruction comes - he is my life eternal.

It sounds like you are looking to capture creation in a science, as if by understanding it you could add something to it; you can't.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

God is God; a man trying to understand his methods is like a toaster trying to understand a laptop computer system, and even this example is poorly lacking.

Will considering the way the earth was formed bring anything to your relationship with Christ?

You speak of catacylsmic events that will transpire in the future; what is your point!? I am really trying to understand where you are coming from, but I grow frustrated because I see the spirit behind your reasoning. Do you think I haven't heard this voice before; a thousand times whispered inside my mind? I am willing to speak with you about PROPHECY; I was excited when I saw the post from someone wanting to delve a little deeper into the mysteries of God. This is not such an event.

You talk about objects crashing into the earth from space and then boldly claim that 'with this understanding prophecy will become easier to understand.' How? Prophecy really has nothing to do with your essay. How does a rock hurling through space bring any further understanding to the scripture or develop your relationship with its author?

Please forgive this rebuke; it is not my intention to discourage your pursuit of reading the word. I merely intend to redirect your focus. Are you willing?

I'll give you an introduction.

'Prophecy' as defined in the dictionary is broken down into two essential parts: 1.) a prediction made under divine influence and direction. 2.) discourse delivered by a prophet under divine inspiration.

But this dictionary is secular, so let's go deeper...

'Prophet' in the original languages is generally defined as either : one in whom the message from God springs forth, or one to whom anything is communicated in secret.

The word prophecy isn't even in the bible.

Do you know what propaganda is? A systematic effort to persuade a body of people to support or adopt a particular opinion, attitude, or course of action. Also defined as an instition or scheme for propagating a doctrine.

I love defining terms. It fills me with a sense of joy, learning how to speak this language.

Let's get to the heart.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron." (1 Timothy 4:1)

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive." (Ephesians 4:14)

"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines." (Hebrews 13:9)

And with that, all I really have shown you is that I own a concordance and know how to use it.

A whole lot of semantics.

I'm going to completely destroy parts of your argument right now, using the only source that I believe.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

So pay attention.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:35-36)

A continuation.

"Take ye heed, watch and pray; for you know not when the time is." (Mark 13:33)

Any part of you that claims to know 'when' is lying to you; and, anything based on the foundation of a lie can't stand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA

Watch this video.

You've got this tag that says 'the word first and formost' in which you mispelt FOREMOST.

'Foremost' is defined as first in place, time, rank or order.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

Let's get down to basics before we discuss prophetic vision, shall we?

THE WORD IS JESUS.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." (John 1:3-5)

Enough.
 

day

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You do not start an explanation of prophecy by changing the doctrine of the Trinity.

Your post is trying to cover too much territory, narrow the scope a little. Is it the Trinity, creation, the flood, or parts of the book of Revelation?
 

veteran

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The translation of Genesis 1:2 that the earth was formless and void is a mistranslation. It's not what the Hebrew phrase 'towhu va bohuw' actually means. The KJV translators brought it into English according to what they could understand, and later Bible translators simply followed suit by tradition.

At Genesis 1:1 in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. STOP.
.........
.........

At Genesis 1:2 the earth became a waste (tohuw) and an undistinguishable ruin (bohuw).


God created the heavens and the earth in a 'perfect' state in the beginning. After that something happened on the earth to cause that perfect state of the earth to go into bondage to a waste and a ruin.


Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature (ktisis - creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature (ktisis - creation) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature (ktisis - creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation (ktisis) groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(KJV)



Jer 4:22-28
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)
 

LambOfChrist

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That is quite the argument; however, I didn't post this to argue. If you can't see what I have explained that is fine. I know from whence it came. Sorry if my spelling isn't the greatest. I would never judge a revelation or a person on their spelling mistakes myself, but that is okay too.

That was a great video. It reminds me of the time I played Christ in that same skit. It was very humbling.

I see that you already have a perfect understanding of all things. Please forgive me a little sarcasm; I have heard these arguments before. However, I have spent too many hours on my knees before the Lord crying out for understanding and clarity to be bothered by this anymore. I have proved these things sufficiently. And when I grow weary the Lord always comes to my rescue with yet another piece of the puzzle.

You quote scripture well. You left out several but I won't hold this against you.

Should we argue over who is right and who is wrong? God knows and soon it will all be for nothing. I only hope that in reading what I write some who question the validity of scripture and stand afar off might realize that there are answers to every question and they all agree with scripture. I don't really care if you believe what I have written. As long as you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved. But there are many even in the churches that do not believe. Some wish it were true but are not convinced for one reason or the other. This is for those who struggle.

I don't really like pointing out failures or errors of any individual. But when it comes to Christ and what is taught in his name it bothers me that so many errors are taught to people who sit on the fence. I fear to many of them will fall off the wrong side as each teaching is proved wrong, one by one. But as long as the truth is held high so they can see it then there is a chance they will come down from the fence to the Lord's side.

So, you say I am wrong and deceived and lead by the wrong spirit.

Prove me.

Where is the bottomless pit?
How is it a beast will ascend from if it is not beneath us?
What will be the reason for his ascent?
Where are all of these locusts hiding right now?
If all of the things I spoke of are unimportant to prophecy, why did the Lord feel it necessary to put them in his word?
How is it, on the slim chance that this is a revelation from God, that it explains so many mysteries about prophecy?
How is it not related to prophecy?
How do you know it is not true?
Why does the Lord tell us to cry out on our beds for understanding, to get understanding and with it to get wisdom?
Why does the Lord rebuke his creation for not searching out what he is doing if we are not to search out and understand what he is doing?
Why tell us to seek the truth if we are not to find it?
When do we stop seeking?
Why have we been given the spirit of truth?
Why did the psalmist say it is a delight to seek out truth, and this is the rigorousness of the saints?
Which church, of all of the denominations, who differ only in the doctrines they teach as truth, is the truth? They all claim to be.
What is Revelation 8 talking about, if it is not a star hitting the earth, as it says?
How does this star have the key to open the pit?

I have so many questions for your reasoning. We are told to prove all things and hang on to that which is true.

These things may seem to have no importance to you today, but when we draw close to the Lords coming they will become very important.

To stand behind a tree and wonder if the noise on the other side is a lion or a cat while it is afar off is foolish. To look and see and determine it is a cat would put the foolish fears to rest. But to look early and see and learn that it is a lion will give you a chance to escape. But to not look at all and tremble at its approach is foolish either way. You will be filled with fear for no cause or you will be eaten and that your own doing.

My Lord has strong rebuke for those who do not receive the love the truth. It comes in the shape of deception and no-one will escape. It is not his wish that any perish but that all come to the knowledge of the truth.

If the earth is hollow, then you will never properly discern prophecy without this knowledge. That is what it has to do with prophecy.
 

tgwprophet

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BOTTOMLESS PIT : Any pit the prophet saw with the appearance of no bottom... he would have called bottomless... Prophets were given visions not audio tapes lest the explanationary words; airplanes, computers, ipods, automobiles, tanks, nuclear bombs, atomic bombs, telelscopes, spaceships, television, radio, bugs bunny and of course... Wile E Coyote would have been included. Does that mean it cannot be bottomless? I give up. NoteSaddam Hussein was said to be ion a bottomless ( supposed to be an over 600 feet deep bunker ) pit and the USA developed ordinance to traverse that depth before exploding. Personally I believe they could have sealed it off with missles we already had and he would hve died before ever digging his way out.
How is it a beast will ascend from if it is not beneath us? Here you desire to use up and down as directions according to us. However, is it possible these "directons" could change our perception when we see this event?
Where are all of these locusts hiding right now? Well, if they are actually a prophet's description of helicopters, then they are not even hiding. And if not... they need only to be spoken into existance, perhaps. Note: The two witnesses can give all manners of plagues...and so thse two witnesses could speak such a plague into being. --- Not that this plague is comitted by them.

If all of the things I spoke of are unimportant to prophecy, why did the Lord feel it necessary to put them in his word?
God indeed wants us ( Christians and Jews) to know... and Prophecy is Proof of God, for who else could know the future?
So. od also wantsnonj-believers to know... that they may change their path.

Which church, of all of the denominations, who differ only in the doctrines they teach as truth, is the truth? They all claim to be.
It is an unfortunate thing of man that he allows his desires to replace the will of God. Samson really had to know Deliliah was attempting to have him captured. Solomon, the wisest of all fell to the pleasures of a woman's desires and away from God in doing so.

What is Revelation 8 talking about, if it is not a star hitting the earth, as it says?
How does this star have the key to open the pit?

Could not a bomb be described as a star? and could it not open a a pit that had been crusted over with earth and stone?
(Just an example) I hoped this helped some. God Bless
 

oliver

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I think a hollow earth is ruled out by seismology, which shows that the earth has a molten iron core. The heat to melt it probably came from accelerated nuclear decay, of which there seem to have been two episodes. (See Creation Ministries International's site and search their article index). It may have been created cold, but it is so no longer and so there cannot be a hollow in it.

Sheol is under the earth and the bottomless pit too, but I think these must be spiritual rather than physical locations.

veteran
At Genesis 1:1 in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. STOP.
........
At Genesis 1:2 the earth became a waste (tohuw) and an undistinguishable ruin (bohuw).
God created the heavens and the earth in a 'perfect' state in the beginning. After that something happened on the earth to cause that perfect state of the earth to go into bondage to a waste and a ruin.
This appears to be based on a faulty understanding of Hebrew grammar, according to this article :

4. ‘Vav’ (often rendered waw) is the name of the Hebrew letter ו which
is used as a conjunction. It can mean ‘and’, ‘but’, ‘now’, ‘then’ and
several other things depending upon the context. It occurs at the
beginning of Genesis 1:2 and is translated in the KJV, ‘And [vav] the
earth was without form, and void.’ Gappists use this translation to
support the gap theory. However, the most straightforward reading
of the text sees verse 1 of Genesis 1 as the principal subject-andverb
clause, with verse 2 containing three ‘circumstantial clauses’,
meaning that they describe or explain the condition in verse 1.
Hebrew grammarian Gesenius called this a ‘vav explicativum’, and
compares it to the English ‘to wit’. Other grammarians have called
it the vav copulative or vav disjunctive or explanatory vav.
A vav disjunctive is easy to tell from the Hebrew, because it is
formed by vav followed by a non-verb. It introduces a parenthetic
statement; that is, it alerts the reader to put the passage following in
brackets, as it were—a descriptive phrase about the previous noun.
It does not indicate something following in a time sequence—this
would have been indicated by a different Hebrew construction called
the vav consecutive, where the vav is followed by a verb. (The vav
consecutive is in fact used at the beginning of every day of creation—
indeed, the beginning of every sentence. In some cases it is used in
the middle of a sentence—from Genesis 1:3 through 2:3—which is
strong evidence that this is all straightforward historical narrative).

5. It is grammatically impossible to translate the verb היה (hayah) as
‘became’ when it is combined with a vav disjunctive—in the rest of
the Old Testament, vav + a noun + היה (qal perfect, 3rd person) is
always translated, ‘was’ or ‘came’, but never ‘became’. Moreover
the qal form of היה does not normally mean ‘became’, especially in
the beginning of a text, where it usually gives the setting.

6. Also, the correct Hebrew idiom for ‘become’ is to attach the verb
‘to be’ היה (hayah), e.g. ‘was’, to the preposition ‘to’ (Hebrew ל le).
The verb ‘to be’ does NOT mean ‘become’ without this preposition.
Since Genesis 1:2 lacks the preposition, it cannot mean ‘became’.



The earth did indeed suffer a disaster that made all creation subject to futility, as Paul says, but this was Adam's sin. At the end of Day 6 of creation, the whole creation was perfect. Therefore Satan's fall must have come shortly after Day 6.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, terry.

BOTTOMLESS PIT : Any pit the prophet saw with the appearance of no bottom... he would have called bottomless... Prophets were given visions not audio tapes lest the explanationary words; airplanes, computers, ipods, automobiles, tanks, nuclear bombs, atomic bombs, telelscopes, spaceships, television, radio, bugs bunny and of course... Wile E Coyote would have been included. Does that mean it cannot be bottomless? I give up. NoteSaddam Hussein was said to be ion a bottomless ( supposed to be an over 600 feet deep bunker ) pit and the USA developed ordinance to traverse that depth before exploding. Personally I believe they could have sealed it off with missles we already had and he would hve died before ever digging his way out.
How is it a beast will ascend from if it is not beneath us? Here you desire to use up and down as directions according to us. However, is it possible these "directons" could change our perception when we see this event?
Where are all of these locusts hiding right now? Well, if they are actually a prophet's description of helicopters, then they are not even hiding. And if not... they need only to be spoken into existance, perhaps. Note: The two witnesses can give all manners of plagues...and so thse two witnesses could speak such a plague into being. --- Not that this plague is comitted by them.

If all of the things I spoke of are unimportant to prophecy, why did the Lord feel it necessary to put them in his word?
God indeed wants us ( Christians and Jews) to know... and Prophecy is Proof of God, for who else could know the future?
So, God also wants non-believers to know... that they may change their path.

Which church, of all of the denominations, who differ only in the doctrines they teach as truth, is the truth? They all claim to be.
It is an unfortunate thing of man that he allows his desires to replace the will of God. Samson really had to know Deliliah was attempting to have him captured. Solomon, the wisest of all fell to the pleasures of a woman's desires and away from God in doing so.

What is Revelation 8 talking about, if it is not a star hitting the earth, as it says?
How does this star have the key to open the pit?

Could not a bomb be described as a star? and could it not open a a pit that had been crusted over with earth and stone?
(Just an example) I hoped this helped some. God Bless

Wow. Talk about dredging things up from the past! This is a couple of months old, friend. Did you look at the date of the last post?

Anyway, the matter is quite simple. The Greek word "abussos," from which we get our word "abyss," simply means "no-bottom" or "depthless." However, that does not necessarily mean that the pit truly has "no bottom"; it just means that the pit has "no SOUNDED bottom." It's never been measured. How many times is the word "abussos" used in Scripture? It is found in Luke 8:31; Romans 10:7; Revelation 9:1, 2, 11; 11:7; 17:8; and 20:1 and 3, nine times in all.

Luke 8:30-31
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
KJV


Romans 10:5-10
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
KJV


Revelation 9:1-12
9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
KJV


Revelation 11:3-8
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV


Revelation 17:1-14
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV


Revelation 20:1-3
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
KJV


Since Romans 10:7 is part of a quotation from the Tanakh (the OT), namely Deuteronomy 30:12-13, we can relate this Greek word to the Hebrew word, yaam, meaning a "sea."

Deuteronomy 30:10-16
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea (Hebrew layaam = "to the sea"), that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea (Hebrew: hayaam = "the sea") for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
KJV


I believe that the locusts will literally be locusts, that is, arthropods of the family Acrididae, also called short-horned grasshoppers, with short antennae and large hind legs for leaping. That they have "stingers in their abdomens" is an anomaly given to this particular sub-species that have been "locked away" for this particular mission, namely to bring human beings torture for five months. They will also be larger than normal, for the sound of their wings is deep like the sound of horses and chariots going to battle. This would also make it possible to mistake the markings on the front of their heads, including the clypeus and labrum, as a human face and also make the hairs on its body appear long as the hair of a woman. For a good drawing of the head of the locust, one can go to http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/insects/grasshoppers/grasshopper_anatomy.html. (Blow up one of the inset pictures of the head.)

Shalom, Oliver.

I think a hollow earth is ruled out by seismology, which shows that the earth has a molten iron core. The heat to melt it probably came from accelerated nuclear decay, of which there seem to have been two episodes. (See Creation Ministries International's site and search their article index). It may have been created cold, but it is so no longer and so there cannot be a hollow in it.

Sheol is under the earth and the bottomless pit too, but I think these must be spiritual rather than physical locations.

veteran

This appears to be based on a faulty understanding of Hebrew grammar, according to this article :

4. ‘Vav’ (often rendered waw) is the name of the Hebrew letter ו which
is used as a conjunction. It can mean ‘and’, ‘but’, ‘now’, ‘then’ and
several other things depending upon the context. It occurs at the
beginning of Genesis 1:2 and is translated in the KJV, ‘And [vav] the
earth was without form, and void.’ Gappists use this translation to
support the gap theory. However, the most straightforward reading
of the text sees verse 1 of Genesis 1 as the principal subject-andverb
clause, with verse 2 containing three ‘circumstantial clauses’,
meaning that they describe or explain the condition in verse 1.
Hebrew grammarian Gesenius called this a ‘vav explicativum’, and
compares it to the English ‘to wit’. Other grammarians have called
it the vav copulative or vav disjunctive or explanatory vav.
A vav disjunctive is easy to tell from the Hebrew, because it is
formed by vav followed by a non-verb. It introduces a parenthetic
statement; that is, it alerts the reader to put the passage following in
brackets, as it were—a descriptive phrase about the previous noun.
It does not indicate something following in a time sequence—this
would have been indicated by a different Hebrew construction called
the vav consecutive, where the vav is followed by a verb. (The vav
consecutive is in fact used at the beginning of every day of creation—
indeed, the beginning of every sentence. In some cases it is used in
the middle of a sentence—from Genesis 1:3 through 2:3—which is
strong evidence that this is all straightforward historical narrative).

5. It is grammatically impossible to translate the verb היה (hayah) as
‘became’ when it is combined with a vav disjunctive—in the rest of
the Old Testament, vav + a noun + היה (qal perfect, 3rd person) is
always translated, ‘was’ or ‘came’, but never ‘became’. Moreover
the qal form of היה does not normally mean ‘became’, especially in
the beginning of a text, where it usually gives the setting.

6. Also, the correct Hebrew idiom for ‘become’ is to attach the verb
‘to be’ היה (hayah), e.g. ‘was’, to the preposition ‘to’ (Hebrew ל le).
The verb ‘to be’ does NOT mean ‘become’ without this preposition.
Since Genesis 1:2 lacks the preposition, it cannot mean ‘became’.



The earth did indeed suffer a disaster that made all creation subject to futility, as Paul says, but this was Adam's sin. At the end of Day 6 of creation, the whole creation was perfect. Therefore Satan's fall must have come shortly after Day 6.

Excellent points on the Hebrew. Also, "Sheol," or as I would transliterate it "Sh'owl," is simply the grave. Like "Hadees," which means "Not seen," it is simply the place of infamy, disgrace, and forgottenness. However, God will not leave our bodies in the grave, and we will be resurrected when Yeshua` returns.
 

tgwprophet

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Yes Retobyter, it is kinda old but I wondered if he had been patiently awaitng further responces. Yes, I know it refers to abyss. Now, as far a these locusts go.... an interpretation allowing this to be considered an insect just does not add up. These locusts have the fces of men, long hair of women, teeth of lions, stings in their tails as a scorpion and th sounds of their wings are like chariots. This is allot easier to get, if these locusts are helicopters and the teeth of lions mean Iraqi Helicopters, for the lion is Iraq's symbol.
 

veteran

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Come on guys. Rev.9 shows the locusts there CANNOT KILL anyone not sealed with God's seal, and they are told not to hurn ANY GREEN THING.

They ain't... helicopters. They are men. And their power is out of their mouths.
 

oliver

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He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace...Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the ear... their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone....In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
(Rev 9:2-11)

These are clearly not men. For a start, they come from the smoke that comes out of the bottomless pit. There are no men there. Men do not look like horses prepared for battle. Men do not have teeth like lions' teeth. Men do not have wings. Men do not have tails and stings like scorpions.

These creatures are described as locusts, but they have a king and Proverbs says that the locusts have no king, so they are not normal locusts.

Since they come out of the bottomless pit, they are presumably some kind of demons.

And their power is not in their mouths but in their tails.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Oliver.

He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace...Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the ear... their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone....In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails. They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
(Rev 9:2-11)

These are clearly not men. For a start, they come from the smoke that comes out of the bottomless pit. There are no men there. Men do not look like horses prepared for battle. Men do not have teeth like lions' teeth. Men do not have wings. Men do not have tails and stings like scorpions.

These creatures are described as locusts, but they have a king and Proverbs says that the locusts have no king, so they are not normal locusts.

Since they come out of the bottomless pit, they are presumably some kind of demons.

And their power is not in their mouths but in their tails.

It's not so difficult to believe that these are simply locusts, even if not "normal locusts," just as lions are not just "normal cats." They are a species of locust that currently is not found on the earth. I believe that they were an antediluvian species that will undergo the same transformation that the herbivorous populations of what are now carnivores underwent after the Flood.

You're right about their power (poison) being in their tails (abdomens) and stingers, and not in their mouths. Veteran still tends to mix up the fifth trumpet with the sixth. He thinks that the "creatures" in the sixth trumpet are the "grown-up" versions of the locusts in the fifth. However, that doesn't mean that they have to be "some kind of demons."

IF they were to be understood as demons, they would have been called "demons!" After all, "demons" or "daimonia" was a Greek word, first, before it was adapted and adopted into Latin, French, and then into English!

The real key in understanding this passage is to go back to the Greek of the passage and to pay attention to the words that translate into "like" or "as."

For instance, verse 7 doesn't say that they were horses. It says, "the shapes of the locusts were LIKE unto horses prepared unto battle" ("ta homoioomata toon akridoon homoia hippois heetoimasmenois eis polemon"). The phrase means that the FORMS of these locusts WAS LIKE horses equipped for battle! In other words, they were formidably equipped for taking on all comers!

Verse 7 does not say that they had crowns of gold on their heads. It says, "on their heads were AS IT WERE crowns LIKE gold" ("epi tas kefalas autoon hoos stefanoi homoioi chrusoo"). Literally, this means "upon the heads of-them LIKE victors'-crowns LIKE gold." "Stefanoi," or "stefanos" in the singular, is a "victor's crown" that we call a "wreath," much as Caesar is seen to wear in the old movies about Roman conquest. They LOOKED like they were made of gold. In other words, they were yellow, shiny, and looked metallic. I believe these to be the creatures' antennae!

Verse 7 does not say that they had the faces of men. It says "their faces were AS the faces of men" ("ta prosoopa autoon hoos prosoopa anthroopoon"). (Bear in mind that I use "oo" for omega and "o" for omicron.

Verse 8 does not say that they had the hair of women. It says "they had hair AS the hair of women" ("eichon trichas hoos trichas gunaikoon").

Verse 8 also does not say that they had the teeth of lions. It says "their teeth were AS the teeth of lions" ("hoi odontes autoon hoos leontoon eesan").

Verse 9 DOES say that they had "breastplates" ("thoorakas" from which we get the word "thorax"), but it does NOT say that they were iron breastplates. It says, "they had breastplates, AS it were breastplates of iron" ("eichon thoorakas hoos thoorakas sideerous"). These thoraxes were thick chitin, impervious to puncture, LIKE iron would be. They would NOT be easy to kill!

Verse 9 goes on to say that "the sound of their wings was AS the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle" ("hee foonee toon pterugoon autoon hoos foonee harmatoon hippoon polloon trechontoon eis polemon"). Literally, this translates to "the sound of-the wings of-them LIKE sound of-chariots of-horses of-many racing into battle."

A "chariot" or "carrus" in Latin, was often depicted as a light carriage for battle. It is often depicted as having but two wheels, and the lighter ones for racing did have only two wheels, but in battle, they were four-wheeled with armored sides and holes for archers aboard to shoot their arrows through. Chariots often had but one or two horses pulling the vehicle, but those of "many horses" were usually pulled by three or four horses abreast. Many horses did not make for faster chariots, but they did make them better for quick starts, the weight of the chariot evenly distributed between the horses.

Verse 10 does NOT say that they had scorpion tails. It says, "They had tails LIKE unto scorpions, and there WERE stings in their tails" ("echousin ouras homoias skorpiois kai kentra, kai en tais ourais autoon..."). (The "in their tails" phrase actually goes with the next portion of the verse.) How thick or long these "tails" are is not given, except to say that they are LIKE those of scorpions.

All of this gives us a pretty good glimpse into what Yochanan was seeing in his vision.
 

tgwprophet

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Veteran, the Helicopters are flown by man or woman. Concerning the stings in their tails... During persian gulf 1 - the 100 hour war... immediately after the "peace" treaty Saddam was not allowed to move his troops in any manner other than Helicopters and the rebels and kurds were attacking. Saddam's army could not fire a single shot.. so they sprayed sulphuric acid out of the back of the helicopters unto the kurds and rebels and I saw, as it was televised the burns from the acid on the people. This was done in the dunes and no green thing was harmed. This was done for 5 months too. not 4 months not 6 months, but 5 months. AND there is even more...

Teeth as it were teeth of lions.... usa has an eagle for our symbol Iraq has the lion

Breastplates as breastplates off iron... it was breastplates of aluminum not invented or discovered or used.at the time of the vision.

Sounds of their wings... well duh

"the shapes of the locusts were LIKE unto horses prepared unto battle" Ok so where are there grasshoppers going to get minature missle launchers, machine guns, and if these grasshoppers got them how could they fly or hop?

Somehow people got this screwed up by ADDING it as world-wide but it does not say that nor imply it. Don't you add it either. Those who were attacked did not have the seal of God nor where they Christians nor were they Jews.

Allow me to further illustrate... NOT a single aspect of what happened during this 100 hour war nor the ensuing aftermath did not complete the description of Revelation chapter 9, except... and only... possibly Saddam as being the Beast 666

It is because of the Beast being 666 that I have not completely defined this as Revelation chapter 9 The spirit of the Beast could very well have been in Saddam and it very well could have left him alone to be hung. AND it could be, but that could be a stretch and I am un-willing to stretch it. And so I have NOT defined this as Chapter 9 fulfilled.

When one defines these locusts as being world - wide they are stretching it. They are adding to Revelation prophecy, and that is not a good idea.
 

veteran

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Veteran, the Helicopters are flown by man or woman. Concerning the stings in their tails... During persian gulf 1 - the 100 hour war... immediately after the "peace" treaty Saddam was not allowed to move his troops in any manner other than Helicopters and the rebels and kurds were attacking. Saddam's army could not fire a single shot.. so they sprayed sulphuric acid out of the back of the helicopters unto the kurds and rebels and I saw, as it was televised the burns from the acid on the people. This was done in the dunes and no green thing was harmed. This was done for 5 months too. not 4 months not 6 months, but 5 months. AND there is even more...

Naw... the locusts of Rev.11 and... the Book of Joel are NOT about helicopters. That's a silly idea some men in the past couple of decades came up with (you didn't). It's only more confusion presented to get God's people off track.

Joel 1:4
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
(KJV)

Joel 1:6
6 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
(KJV)
 

tgwprophet

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Veteran wrote: " Naw... the locusts of Rev.11 and... the Book of Joel are NOT about helicopters. That's a silly idea some men in the past couple of decades came up with (you didn't). It's only more confusion presented to get God's people off track. "

You are correct I did not come up with this, but that does not mean i do not agree with it
The reference to joel connecting to Rev chapter 9 eludes me. I see no connection between the two.
 

veteran

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Veteran wrote: " Naw... the locusts of Rev.11 and... the Book of Joel are NOT about helicopters. That's a silly idea some men in the past couple of decades came up with (you didn't). It's only more confusion presented to get God's people off track. "

You are correct I did not come up with this, but that does not mean i do not agree with it
The reference to joel connecting to Rev chapter 9 eludes me. I see no connection between the two.

If you don't understand the connection between the locusts in Rev.9 with Joel 2, then it has to mean you don't understand one or the other, instead of both like we're supposed to know.

In the Joel prophecy, the locusts is given as a symbolic metaphor. In Rev.9 the locusts is given as a symbolic metaphor. In both the locusts are put for men, for a certain people, "a nation" God says in Joel 1:6.