I am crucified with Christ - The Word for the Healing of the Body, Today.

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Axehead

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Hi Axehead, I agree with most of what you wrote but I think you have a misunderstanding of Grace. You really can't go by Annanias and Sapphira because as far as we know, it was a one time event and the scripture tells us specifically what their sin was. Do some christians abuse grace because of their misunderstanding as you exampled? Absolutely, but I wouldn't consider it a common theme among Christiandom. The fact of what grace does, from your post: " the way Jesus' blood "covers" a person so that God when He looks down on them, doesn't see the person's sin anymore, but just sees the blood of Jesus," is absolute truth but only when we apply it by repentance and seeking forgiveness for a sin even if it's for the thoudsandth time. To believe that honest to goodness christians never sin is naive and not honest. While we may try not to sin, all of us sin in one way or another at least every few days.

Being born again doesn't mean one will never sin again, it is a fresh start with our new inner man, however, just as our physical bodies can break down through sickness, disease, broken bones, etc., so can our spiritual man because we are not spiritually incorruptible yet. The beauty of God is that He doesn't demand that everyone adapt to His way at the same time in the same way. He deals with us as individuals, not a collective. He might deliver someone with a drinking problem immediately upon salvation or He might want another person to learn something from the battle of overcoming. If one never suffers defeat at times, one won't appreciate the journey to becoming an overcomer. We are at war and while we lose the battle with temptation sometimes, we have Christ's assurance that we will win the war.


Hi Trekson,

I am talking about an attitude of taking advantage of God's grace and thinking that sin for the Christian does not mean the same as sin for the Unbeliever. Somehow, we think we are protected. Why wasn't Adam protected? He walked with God and was created in His image. Why did one "little" mistake (his first sin) cost him so much? Of course we sin after being born-again, but don't you think that new Christians should be taught the proper purpose of grace?

Here is the Purpose of Grace in God's Words.

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works(Titus 2:11-14).

Today, the emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Does God require us to obey Him and walk in righteousness? Or do we just slap the bumper sticker on our car "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." What this is saying is, "I'm a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not."
Then we do whatever we want and every night before we go to sleep, we just ask the Lord to forgive us."

That my friend is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that kind of thinking is even a scandal to the world and breeds a False Gospel of False Security.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (2Co 3:18)


Axehead
 

Episkopos

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Very good posts Axehead!

Col_2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
 

Trekson

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Hi Dragonfly, This board thankfully isn't representative of the whole Church, just parts. Those who believe in OSAS have no real understanding of grace or scripture.


Hi Axehead, I firmly believe the bumper sticker, Christians aren't perfect just forgiven, however one must balance that with a sincere desire to imitate Christ as much as we can, so we are in agreement.
 

Axehead

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Amen, Trekson.

When you say "imitate Christ", I assume you mean "obey", "submit", and "surrender" to Christ and His will, turning away from self.

:)

Axehead
 

whitestone

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Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

Nice post Axe. Unfortunately so true for so many. The "churches" are full of "many called". But out of them, few are chosen. Just like Jesus says.

The Holy Spirit of Christ isn't received in most, because it would upset their modern christian theological apple cart. Folk need to get out of the churches and run into the bosom of Jesus and curl up in His arms and Love. Ask Him to give you His Holy Spirit and Father you folks! He would love to :) That is why He called us all in the first place. We couldn't help that we ran into a "denomination" and got our minds filled with worthless theology. Forget it all, let's open our Bibles and our hearts and eat His Body and drink His Blood, Let us all get back to Jesus!

Peace

Hi Trekson,

I am talking about an attitude of taking advantage of God's grace and thinking that sin for the Christian does not mean the same as sin for the Unbeliever. Somehow, we think we are protected. Why wasn't Adam protected? He walked with God and was created in His image. Why did one "little" mistake (his first sin) cost him so much? Of course we sin after being born-again, but don't you think that new Christians should be taught the proper purpose of grace?

Here is the Purpose of Grace in God's Words.

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works(Titus 2:11-14).

Today, the emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Does God require us to obey Him and walk in righteousness? Or do we just slap the bumper sticker on our car "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." What this is saying is, "I'm a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not."
Then we do whatever we want and every night before we go to sleep, we just ask the Lord to forgive us."

That my friend is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that kind of thinking is even a scandal to the world and breeds a False Gospel of False Security.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (2Co 3:18)


Axehead

Amen Axe, very nice reiteration of how important we are to consider Jesus and our position before Him. Do we sin and drive a nail into His hand now and again? Or do we die to ourself and Let Him Live His Righteousness in us by inviting His resurrected glorified Holy Spirit to COME into us and Live in our/His body?

It is a choice. It is always one or the other.

The one who dies to self and whose Life is now enslaved to righteousness in Christ is a Saint. They hate sin.

The other is one of those who calls themselves a "sinner saved by grace". They teach that it is ok to sin now and again, that nothing can be done about it, that 'grace' will take care of it.

The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see.
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

Most of those who think they know are also under this covering that you speak of.

" If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Matthew 6:23
23 ------ If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Luke 18:8
8------- when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"






.
 

Axehead

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That's
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!
14949.gif
Shep!!

icon_tea.gif
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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There is only one way out of the covering of lies that plague this earth.

Ask God for His Spirit. Regularly. Don't stop asking until you receive His Spirit without measure.
Those who have ears to hear let them hear.

There is only one way out of the covering of lies that plague this earth.

Ask God for His Spirit. Regularly. Don't stop asking until you receive His Spirit without measure.
Those who have ears to hear let them hear.

Once again don't assume that the you have received His Spirit until the power of His Spirit is present with you.




.
 

Trekson

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Whitestone, Your words: "The other is one of those who calls themselves a "sinner saved by grace". They teach that it is ok to sin now and again, that nothing can be done about it, that 'grace' will take care of it.

The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see
.

No one ever said that it is OK to sin now and again, we just do, EVERYONE! and if you believe you don't than you are either deceiving yourself or a liar!
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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Whitestone, Your words: "The other is one of those who calls themselves a "sinner saved by grace". They teach that it is ok to sin now and again, that nothing can be done about it, that 'grace' will take care of it.

The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see
.

No one ever said that it is OK to sin now and again, we just do, EVERYONE! and if you believe you don't than you are either deceiving yourself or a liar!

Does Christ sin? Does the Spirit of God sin? If you abide in Him and Him in you "you will not sin".
But then you have to know who Christ is before that can take place and chances are that they have brought you under the bondage of the teaching of a false christ.

2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
 
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Episkopos

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Does Christ sin? Does the Spirit of God sin? If you abide in Him and Him in you "you will not sin".
But then you have to know who Christ is before that can take place and chances are that they have brought you under the bondage of the teaching of a false christ.

2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

Amen! I think we all know what bondage to sin is like. I think that some on this forum think those who agree with the truth are gloating over the poor performances of most Christians. But this is not the case. We are appealing to the faith of those who have indeed consecrated their lives to get a deeper hold of Christ in order to be found IN Him. Let us not forget what Christ has done FOR us..but let us not remain stuck there either. Let us move into Christ and abide in Zion with Him through a crying out and a forsaking of our own reasonings and imaginings. God is not keeping us in our sinful ruts...WE ARE! God doesn't love us in our sins but AWAY from our sins.

Come away beloved and be poured out for Him. Forsaking all others...cleave to the Lord who saved you. Relinquishing all rights and all possessions let us be joined to the Lord and to one another as one heart. It is only from there that we can overcome...and only together will we have victory over the enemies of God.
 

whitestone

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Whitestone, Your words: "The other is one of those who calls themselves a "sinner saved by grace". They teach that it is ok to sin now and again, that nothing can be done about it, that 'grace' will take care of it.

The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see
.

No one ever said that it is OK to sin now and again, we just do, EVERYONE! and if you believe you don't than you are either deceiving yourself or a liar!

Or, the other option you evidently need to learn about, that I let Jesus Christ Live His Life in me by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit in me...

To clarify it, here is someone who sins after they say they know Christ;

(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(1Jn 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1Jn 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

No, I'm not a liar, but I used to be at one time. Never again. I used to commit other sins too. In fact, I've broken every commandment on the books at one time or another.
But no more, of course not! What a horrible idea!
I Now don't see Jesus committing any sin with my body ever again. I rest in great peace being delivered from sin. Why wouldn't He keep me from sin after promising to?? He owns this body. He bought and paid for my body with a precious price indeed. Shall I now render this body a servant to sin?
Nope, I much rather continue to Let Jesus live in me a servant to righteousness! An easy choice, an easy task for Him who has overcome with all power in Heaven and earth at His disposal.
It is a choice. And Christ gives the power. I've Chosen that which is most dear.
I choose His Will in me. His Righteousness.

Does that help?

Peace
 

whitestone

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Amen! I think we all know what bondage to sin is like. I think that some on this forum think those who agree with the truth are gloating over the poor performances of most Christians. But this is not the case. We are appealing to the faith of those who have indeed consecrated their lives to get a deeper hold of Christ in order to be found IN Him. Let us not forget what Christ has done FOR us..but let us not remain stuck there either. Let us move into Christ and abide in Zion with Him through a crying out and a forsaking of our own reasonings and imaginings. God is not keeping us in our sinful ruts...WE ARE! God doesn't love us in our sins but AWAY from our sins.

Come away beloved and be poured out for Him. Forsaking all others...cleave to the Lord who saved you. Relinquishing all rights and all possessions let us be joined to the Lord and to one another as one heart. It is only from there that we can overcome...and only together will we have victory over the enemies of God.

Nice post Epi :)
Let us all dwell together in the Unity of Christ's Holy Spirit in each of us, making us all His One Body!
Prayer for the day :)
 

Trekson

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son of man: Your quote - "Does Christ sin? Does the Spirit of God sin? If you abide in Him and Him in you "you will not sin".

The implication in scripture is that one will no longer be ruled by sin and self-motivation but it doesn't say that we will never sin again, that's preposterous.


Episkopos: Your quote - "God doesn't love us in our sins but AWAY from our sins."

Rom. 5:8 - "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Of course God loves us in our sin although He doesn't love the sin itself. There is absolutely no time that God doesn't love sinners. Even when the times of judgment and wrath come, He will still love those He is destroying. You're kinda re-writing one of the foundational messages of Christ.

I think Paul was a pretty decent guy, a good example of a christian, don't you think, but he also teaches that we shouldn't think more highly of ourselves than we ought to. Why do I say this? 1 Tim. 1:15 - "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Notice the present tense in the phrase "I am". He doesn't say "I was". Paul knows that while He is in the process of being perfected, he's not there yet.



Whitestone: Your quote - (Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(1Jn 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1Jn 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

No, I'm not a liar, but I used to be at one time. Never again. I used to commit other sins too. In fact, I've broken every commandment on the books at one time or another.
But no more, of course not! What a horrible idea!
I Now don't see Jesus committing any sin with my body ever again. I rest in great peace being delivered from sin. Why wouldn't He keep me from sin after promising to?? He owns this body. He bought and paid for my body with a precious price indeed. Shall I now render this body a servant to sin?


I'm a firm believer that when one attains the level of righteousness that you proclaim, then God will take him to heaven as he did with Enoch & Elijah....

Still Here??? Then maybe you're not as sinless as you think. I could look at the ten commandments and the summation of two that Christ gave us and on the surface say to myself, "I haven't done any of these so now I'm not a sinner" but I would be fooling myself because whether we are looking at the ten commandments or the two there are literally tens of thousands of ways we can fail to accomplish any one. I find it very hard to believe that when someone cuts you off in traffic you don't mutter, "moron" or something else under your breath. If you do, it's a sin. When seeing an attractive woman the time from admiration to lust is only about five seconds. I mean nobody's ever got you so angry you want to smack them? You don't have to actually smack them to commit the sin, just the momentary desire is a sin in itself. When Christ upped the ante from the actual committment of sin to our thought-life, Matt. 5:22, 28, He was showing us just how impossible it is to live a sinless life. Most of the "righteous" Pharisees kept the law but Christ found them be the biggest sinners of all.

The deeper one gets in their walk with God, the more God shows you your failures. Even the verses you quoted aren't saying what you think they are. John is speaking of a lifestyle of sin, not occasional momentary indiscretions, which are still sins. That's what Paul is preaching about in Rom. 7 and why John 1:9 tells us "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

This is an on-going process, not a one-time event. Even the Holy Spirit residing within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies and we still have the basic sin nature that comes along with that. The new man doesn't rid itself of that basic sin nature but the Holy Spirit helps us keep it under control so that we are the master of it and it doesn't master us but that doesn't mean we won't ever fail, Christ became the propitiation for when we do. If we are constantly confessing and repenting as, we should, that is the only thing that keeps Christ's righteous blood covering us. Sins aren't just things we do, they're also things we don't do like, failing to act as a peace-maker in a public or private setting, not praying for someone when God told us to because we were too "busy" at the moment, not witnessing when led because we were to "shy" or for whatever reason, not stopping to help someone broke down on the side of the road, etc there are thousands of ways we can "fail" to act that are also sins because in that moment we're not reflecting Christ. You go on and keep claiming your perfection and I will keep asking forgiveness for all the "little things" I either do or don't do.
 

dragonfly

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Hi Trekson,

I just want to pick out one of your sentences, to comment upon it from a different angle which I hope may help us to get away from this 'of course we are bound to sin again' mentality which Christians seem so happy to espouse, despite all that was written by the apostles.

Notice the present tense in the phrase "I am". He doesn't say "I was". Paul knows that while He is in the process of being perfected, he's not there yet.

I can testify to many times God has quickened my mortal body with His life, but that does not mean I've already been to the grave and resurrected.

The same kind of process is going on in me with regard to sinning. The concept of redemption, is that of being bought back from another owner. In our case, we were bought back from the control of Satan, sin and death, so we were not in great shape at the time we were purchased. When the buyer receives the goods he redeemed he can begin to restore them.

Yes, we have death working in us, but the spiritual principle of the sin should have been dealt with by our association with Christ's death. This is the source of my resistance to any sense of bondage to sin - although I have had to fight many battles to get free from sins which attracted me - and no doubt have many more ahead if I'm to retain my record of victories.

At the same times as this, God is making me more aware of the finer detail in subtle areas like thoughts and attitudes which I've carried from way back - childhood - absorbed from parents, the world and simply through having been born into a sinful nature. But I know that He doesn't hold these against me while I didn't know about them (The time of our ignorance God winked at.) as long as in my heart, my attitude is ready to be appropriately contrite, repentant and submitted to the Holy Spirit's conviction from the moment I become aware. These changes are part of the restoration process.

Psalm 23:3 He restores my soul: he leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

It's not a sin to need one's soul to be restored. Jesus Christ came to save our souls and to deliver us from eternal condemnation.
 

JohnnyB

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This is an on-going process, not a one-time event. Even the Holy Spirit residing within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies and we still have the basic sin nature that comes along with that. The new man doesn't rid itself of that basic sin nature but the Holy Spirit helps us keep it under control so that we are the master of it and it doesn't master us but that doesn't mean we won't ever fail, Christ became the propitiation for when we do. If we are constantly confessing and repenting as, we should, that is the only thing that keeps Christ's righteous blood covering us. Sins aren't just things we do, they're also things we don't do like, failing to act as a peace-maker in a public or private setting, not praying for someone when God told us to because we were too "busy" at the moment, not witnessing when led because we were to "shy" or for whatever reason, not stopping to help someone broke down on the side of the road, etc there are thousands of ways we can "fail" to act that are also sins because in that moment we're not reflecting Christ. You go on and keep claiming your perfection and I will keep asking forgiveness for all the "little things" I either do or don't do.

You said "Even the Holy Spirit within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies" - I do not want to go above and beyond my comprehension of this statement, but it sounds to me like you are saying the Holy Spirit is unable and not strong enough to keep us from sin. Is that what you are saying? Just to clarify.

The Bible disagrees with you.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

We only have one nature, the new nature, the divine One. We don't all have bi-polar.
 

Episkopos

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You said "Even the Holy Spirit within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies" - I do not want to go above and beyond my comprehension of this statement, but it sounds to me like you are saying the Holy Spirit is unable and not strong enough to keep us from sin. Is that what you are saying? Just to clarify.

The Bible disagrees with you.

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

We only have one nature, the new nature, the divine One. We don't all have bi-polar.

You have wisdom far beyond your years!!!! :)

son of man: Your quote - "Does Christ sin? Does the Spirit of God sin? If you abide in Him and Him in you "you will not sin".

The implication in scripture is that one will no longer be ruled by sin and self-motivation but it doesn't say that we will never sin again, that's preposterous.


Episkopos: Your quote - "God doesn't love us in our sins but AWAY from our sins."

Rom. 5:8 - "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Of course God loves us in our sin although He doesn't love the sin itself. There is absolutely no time that God doesn't love sinners. Even when the times of judgment and wrath come, He will still love those He is destroying. You're kinda re-writing one of the foundational messages of Christ.

I think Paul was a pretty decent guy, a good example of a christian, don't you think, but he also teaches that we shouldn't think more highly of ourselves than we ought to. Why do I say this? 1 Tim. 1:15 - "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Notice the present tense in the phrase "I am". He doesn't say "I was". Paul knows that while He is in the process of being perfected, he's not there yet.



Whitestone: Your quote - (Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(1Jn 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

(1Jn 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

No, I'm not a liar, but I used to be at one time. Never again. I used to commit other sins too. In fact, I've broken every commandment on the books at one time or another.
But no more, of course not! What a horrible idea!
I Now don't see Jesus committing any sin with my body ever again. I rest in great peace being delivered from sin. Why wouldn't He keep me from sin after promising to?? He owns this body. He bought and paid for my body with a precious price indeed. Shall I now render this body a servant to sin?


I'm a firm believer that when one attains the level of righteousness that you proclaim, then God will take him to heaven as he did with Enoch & Elijah....

Still Here??? Then maybe you're not as sinless as you think. I could look at the ten commandments and the summation of two that Christ gave us and on the surface say to myself, "I haven't done any of these so now I'm not a sinner" but I would be fooling myself because whether we are looking at the ten commandments or the two there are literally tens of thousands of ways we can fail to accomplish any one. I find it very hard to believe that when someone cuts you off in traffic you don't mutter, "moron" or something else under your breath. If you do, it's a sin. When seeing an attractive woman the time from admiration to lust is only about five seconds. I mean nobody's ever got you so angry you want to smack them? You don't have to actually smack them to commit the sin, just the momentary desire is a sin in itself. When Christ upped the ante from the actual committment of sin to our thought-life, Matt. 5:22, 28, He was showing us just how impossible it is to live a sinless life. Most of the "righteous" Pharisees kept the law but Christ found them be the biggest sinners of all.

The deeper one gets in their walk with God, the more God shows you your failures. Even the verses you quoted aren't saying what you think they are. John is speaking of a lifestyle of sin, not occasional momentary indiscretions, which are still sins. That's what Paul is preaching about in Rom. 7 and why John 1:9 tells us "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

This is an on-going process, not a one-time event. Even the Holy Spirit residing within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies and we still have the basic sin nature that comes along with that. The new man doesn't rid itself of that basic sin nature but the Holy Spirit helps us keep it under control so that we are the master of it and it doesn't master us but that doesn't mean we won't ever fail, Christ became the propitiation for when we do. If we are constantly confessing and repenting as, we should, that is the only thing that keeps Christ's righteous blood covering us. Sins aren't just things we do, they're also things we don't do like, failing to act as a peace-maker in a public or private setting, not praying for someone when God told us to because we were too "busy" at the moment, not witnessing when led because we were to "shy" or for whatever reason, not stopping to help someone broke down on the side of the road, etc there are thousands of ways we can "fail" to act that are also sins because in that moment we're not reflecting Christ. You go on and keep claiming your perfection and I will keep asking forgiveness for all the "little things" I either do or don't do.

Just a few comments...you said...

The deeper one gets in their walk with God, the more God shows you your failures.

This is true of all religions...as men seek to walk closer to God they realize the power of sin stops them from realizing their desire to be holy.

But in Christ we can die to this limitation by being crucified in the nature that once empowered us. This is where Christianity differs from the religions of men. GOD Himself is being reconciled to us through a new and living way in Christ. This is good news for those who are stuck in their own limitations and sins. We are set free in Christ through His death and resurrection. We can walk in NEWNESS of life through Him who empowers us to by His Spirit within us. :)

This is an on-going process, not a one-time event.

It is both. Unless we experience the death of Jesus we cannot know what it is like to be free from sin. We then risk to be always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. So we must BE crucified with Jesus in experience to walk out this death in a CONTINUING of this death through the carrying of our own cross daily.
 
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dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Trekson,

Even the Holy Spirit residing within us can't stop us from sinning..'

The Bible doesn't say that the Holy Spirit will do all the work. It says He comes to help us. Actually, we make the decision to not sin.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

At the same time as you are working with the Holy Spirit to mortify the flesh, Romans 8:11 is in action, bringing the flesh to health.


The responsibility is put on us in other things, too.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:
from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.