Who Is Telling the Truth ?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Hitch

Member
May 7, 2011
153
5
18
PeoplesRepublikofOregon
Vet says;


None of that is manifest yet today. Why? Because in that time, the concept of flesh death will be over, the ONLY type of death remaining being the "second death" (casting into the lake of fire at the end of that thousand years.) As of right now, we have only the PROMISE of eternal life (for those who believe on Jesus Christ). We do not yet defacto have eternal life today, for we are all still subject to flesh death still, or the twinkling of an eye change at the "last trump" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. We are not immortal yet, which is what that "first resurrection" is about, deathlessness or immortality.


Jesus says,


Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


I wasnt kidding when I said futurists dont like what Jesus had to say. Especially those who try to pass themselves off a 'literalists' when it comes to eschatology. In this case Vet thinks nothing of directly contradicting Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospel of John. oh well


I'll bet on that JESUS who ever he was....
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,795
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Eternal life is a type of life we can walk in today by abiding in Christ...immortality in the body comes later.
 

shilohsfoal

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
860
47
28
60
North Carolina
[sub]All the apostles drank of the same cup and ate of the same body.[/sub]
[sub]And all of them died.Yet on the last day when Christ comes and raises them up out of the ground they shall die no more.[/sub]
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, Hitch.

Vet says;


None of that is manifest yet today. Why? Because in that time, the concept of flesh death will be over, the ONLY type of death remaining being the "second death" (casting into the lake of fire at the end of that thousand years.) As of right now, we have only the PROMISE of eternal life (for those who believe on Jesus Christ). We do not yet defacto have eternal life today, for we are all still subject to flesh death still, or the twinkling of an eye change at the "last trump" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. We are not immortal yet, which is what that "first resurrection" is about, deathlessness or immortality.


Jesus says,


Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


I wasnt kidding when I said futurists dont like what Jesus had to say. Especially those who try to pass themselves off a 'literalists' when it comes to eschatology. In this case Vet thinks nothing of directly contradicting Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospel of John. oh well


I'll bet on that JESUS who ever he was....

I don't have a problem at all with what Yeshua` said in John 6:54. In fact, I LOVE what He said, and I'm a futurist! It's similar to what He said in John 3:14-18:

John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
KJV


If a person can rest assured that God will raise Him from the grave, even if he or she was to die before the Messiah's return, then they HOLD (Greek: "echei," from "echoo," meaning "I hold") eternal life. The words "eternal life" simply means a "life that lasts forever," and that is NOT some ethereal, "spiritual" life off in some "Heaven" somewhere for all eternity, but is a REAL, TANGIBLE, PHYSICAL (albeit SUPERHUMAN) life ON THIS EARTH for all eternity!

Thus, in mathematical terms, one might say that it is represented by a half line on a one- or two-dimensional graph where the x-axis represents time. It begins at the second birth, and continues indefinitely into the future. So, yes, one CAN possess "eternal life" now; however, one does NOT currently possess the FULNESS of that eternal life because the FULNESS of that eternal life will be experienced when the Messiah has raised us back to life or transforms us from our current bodies into our resurrected, immortal bodies. Thus, what Veteran said does not contradict what Yeshua` said. Furthermore, using the graph analogy again, think of a vertical line passing through the line representing our "eternal life" at some point "x = Second Coming of the Messiah." Every one of our eternal life-lines to the left of that point will be thin and weak whether we survive to that point or not. Every one of our eternal-life-lines to the right of that point will be THICK, BOLD, and STRONG as we acquire our incorruptible, immortal, eternal bodies at that point in time! We don't yet possess the THICK, BOLD, and STRONG lines, yet, but we DO have eternal-life-lines and the PROMISE of THICK, BOLD, and STRONG lines with incorruptible, immortal, and eternal bodies!

1 Corinthians 15:39-57
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural (Greek: "psuchikos" = "breathing") body; it is raised a spiritual (Greek: "pneumatikos" = "wind-like-blasting") body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: "psucheen zoosan" = "living breathing-creature"); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (Greek: "pneuma zoo-opoioun" = "life-giving blast-of-wind").
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV


Romans 8:15-25
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV


So, we're not quite there, yet. Not like we WILL be when the Lord Yeshua` returns. However, we do have the EARNEST (DOWN PAYMENT) of our eternal life right now, the Ruach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God):

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV


2 Corinthians 5:5-11
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
KJV


Ephesians 1:1-14
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

KJV


So, while it is hard to believe, I agree with shilohsfoal on this one!
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
Vet says;


None of that is manifest yet today. Why? Because in that time, the concept of flesh death will be over, the ONLY type of death remaining being the "second death" (casting into the lake of fire at the end of that thousand years.) As of right now, we have only the PROMISE of eternal life (for those who believe on Jesus Christ). We do not yet defacto have eternal life today, for we are all still subject to flesh death still, or the twinkling of an eye change at the "last trump" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. We are not immortal yet, which is what that "first resurrection" is about, deathlessness or immortality.


Jesus says,


Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


I wasnt kidding when I said futurists dont like what Jesus had to say. Especially those who try to pass themselves off a 'literalists' when it comes to eschatology. In this case Vet thinks nothing of directly contradicting Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospel of John. oh well


I'll bet on that JESUS who ever he was....

Some folks just can't understand what the word "last" means!


John 12:47-48
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
(KJV)

John 11:24
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
(KJV)

Greek 'eschatos' ("last) means 'fartherest, final'. When is the last day of this present world boys and girls? At Christ's FUTURE second coming!


Preterists are instead living in past days, since that's what preter means.



I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
(KJV)
 

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
I've died in Christ. The "second death" (when this body dies) has no power over me.

The "last day" is that day. The day this body dies.
But I have eternal life in Christ's resurrection even now. Thus saith the Word of God of course.

The "resurrection" is not a "calendar event" as Jesus says to Martha.

Martha was wrong in her answer that the "resurrection" was a "future" event.

That is why Jesus corrected her with this answer, "I am the resurrection and the Life".

It isn't an "event". It is a "state of being alive" in the resurrection who IS Christ. NOW. (i.e. Rom 13;11)

The "futurists" like Vet who rob Children of God of the present meaning and throw it all out into the future to some pie in the sky idea involving non-sense theological inventions of a futuristic rapture, tribulation, millenium, bodily resurrection, a second death blah blah blah, are false prophets with their own anti-christ agenda. Speaking that of which they know not, having not received the Resurrected Christ Jesus within their Temple bodies, they need to change the gospel into something that allows 'them' to 'someday' enjoy the Kingdom. Whereas now, they aren't in the Kingdom, yet try to impress other's with their 'knowledge' of the Kingdom...
Especially watch them if they say you can not be sinless in Christ...

(2Th 2:11)

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(2Th 2:12)

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Vet says;


None of that is manifest yet today. Why? Because in that time, the concept of flesh death will be over, the ONLY type of death remaining being the "second death" (casting into the lake of fire at the end of that thousand years.) As of right now, we have only the PROMISE of eternal life (for those who believe on Jesus Christ). We do not yet defacto have eternal life today, for we are all still subject to flesh death still, or the twinkling of an eye change at the "last trump" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. We are not immortal yet, which is what that "first resurrection" is about, deathlessness or immortality.


Jesus says,


Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


I wasnt kidding when I said futurists dont like what Jesus had to say. Especially those who try to pass themselves off a 'literalists' when it comes to eschatology. In this case Vet thinks nothing of directly contradicting Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospel of John. oh well


I'll bet on that JESUS who ever he was....

Yes, quite the obvious difference between what Jesus says and what the enemy to the gospel says...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hepzibah

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
I've died in Christ. The "second death" (when this body dies) has no power over me.

The "last day" is that day. The day this body dies.

The "last day" in the Scriptures I quoted do not simply mean someone dying today. Instead, what it means is the very last day of this present world, for everyone.
 

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
The "last day" in the Scriptures I quoted do not simply mean someone dying today. Instead, what it means is the very last day of this present world, for everyone.

I know that is what you mean. I'm also familiar with that false doctrine, I was raised up in it like most folk. But that isn't what the Bible means.
This is no place for private interpretations.
The "last day" in scriptures is always a term describing our last breath. Each of us. Never a worldwide calamity day on a certain calendar day. That is false teaching. Check it out.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
I know that is what you mean. I'm also familiar with that false doctrine, I was raised up in it like most folk. But that isn't what the Bible means.
This is no place for private interpretations.
The "last day" in scriptures is always a term describing our last breath. Each of us. Never a worldwide calamity day on a certain calendar day. That is false teaching. Check it out.


Your's in the private interpretation, and it's per the devil's own leading since it goes so contrary to the simplicity of The Word of God.


John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)

1Thes 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(KJV)

2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)
 

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
Your's in the private interpretation, and it's per the devil's own leading since it goes so contrary to the simplicity of The Word of God.


John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)

1Thes 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(KJV)

2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)

You have a lot to learn Veteran. I'm happy to teach you if you put your pride down.

Here we go;

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

I heard His voice from the grave. I was dead in my grave before Christ resurrected me. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit guides us to know that WE are dead prior to hearing the Voice of Christ to repent and die to our sins and be raised up.
That hour came for me.
I was dead, I am now alive.
I was in the grave, I came forth in Christ's resurrection to Life, if by His Spirit I continue in Righteousness.
Or, if I continue in evil (as some folk say is unavoidable), I've come forth in resurrection only to damnation.

It isn't a "futuristic" calendar event. It was/is personal and happening right now.

Second scripture you provided was;

Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)

Of course, this is for EACH person, "each in their own order". This has been happening regularly amongst brethren for 2000 years now. It might happen for me today or tomorrow or the next. NOT in "one calendar day" sometime in the future for everyone on the planet lol, that is silliness and false doctrine and just a worthless private interpretation.
Here is how you should understand it;

(1Co 15:23) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

Notice "each in his own order". NOT some futuristic 'one day' cataclysm, lol!
This is how it works for EVERYONE that Paul is describing in 1 Cor 15.
Christ COMES to each person a different day and time. "Each in His own order". The simplest sentence contains such amazing meanings that float problems away immediately, if we are guided by the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus in us.
Christ doesn't come for someone after their bodies died or before they even exist yet. EACH MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER. Some people when they are young, others when they are old. Some people 1500 years ago, someone yesterday. THAT is HOW the Lord COMES! Some pretty cool simple scriptures that opens doors wide to see aren't they :)

Thirdly your scriptures here;

1Thes 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(KJV)

Yes, to some people, Christ Comes like this. Does this apply to you Veteran??

I hope not Veteran. It sure doesn't apply to me. For I am most definetly NOT of the "night" nor am I asleep! I am a Child of the Day! He will not overtake me as a thief in the night. Just as described in the very next verses;

(1Th 5:4) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
(1Th 5:5) for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

So there you go.

Plain scriptures that speak of HOW Christ COMES, and it is "To each man in His own order" quite clearly. It is a personal Coming to each of us. A personal resurrection. NOW.

What scriptures do NOT say, and perfectly proven now, is that the Coming of Jesus is a one day calendar event such as taught by the futurists/dispensationalists/eschatologists, who will only destroy your understanding with their false "futurism" prophecies.

So what are we waiting for? Live in the resurrection of Christ in you Now To Day! :)

Peace,
Whitestone.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
You have a lot to learn Veteran. I'm happy to teach you if you put your pride down.

Here we go;

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

I heard His voice from the grave. I was dead in my grave before Christ resurrected me. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit guides us to know that WE are dead prior to hearing the Voice of Christ to repent and die to our sins and be raised up.
That hour came for me.
I was dead, I am now alive.
I was in the grave, I came forth in Christ's resurrection to Life, if by His Spirit I continue in Righteousness.
Or, if I continue in evil (as some folk say is unavoidable), I've come forth in resurrection only to damnation.

It isn't a "futuristic" calendar event. It was/is personal and happening right now.

Second scripture you provided was;

Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)

Of course, this is for EACH person, "each in their own order". This has been happening regularly amongst brethren for 2000 years now. It might happen for me today or tomorrow or the next. NOT in "one calendar day" sometime in the future for everyone on the planet lol, that is silliness and false doctrine and just a worthless private interpretation.
Here is how you should understand it;

(1Co 15:23) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

Notice "each in his own order". NOT some futuristic 'one day' cataclysm, lol!
This is how it works for EVERYONE that Paul is describing in 1 Cor 15.
Christ COMES to each person a different day and time. "Each in His own order". The simplest sentence contains such amazing meanings that float problems away immediately, if we are guided by the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus in us.
Christ doesn't come for someone after their bodies died or before they even exist yet. EACH MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER. Some people when they are young, others when they are old. Some people 1500 years ago, someone yesterday. THAT is HOW the Lord COMES! Some pretty cool simple scriptures that opens doors wide to see aren't they :)

Thirdly your scriptures here;

1Thes 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(KJV)

Yes, to some people, Christ Comes like this. Does this apply to you Veteran??

I hope not Veteran. It sure doesn't apply to me. For I am most definetly NOT of the "night" nor am I asleep! I am a Child of the Day! He will not overtake me as a thief in the night. Just as described in the very next verses;

(1Th 5:4) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
(1Th 5:5) for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

So there you go.

Plain scriptures that speak of HOW Christ COMES, and it is "To each man in His own order" quite clearly. It is a personal Coming to each of us. A personal resurrection. NOW.

What scriptures do NOT say, and perfectly proven now, is that the Coming of Jesus is a one day calendar event such as taught by the futurists/dispensationalists/eschatologists, who will only destroy your understanding with their false "futurism" prophecies.

So what are we waiting for? Live in the resurrection of Christ in you Now To Day! :)

Peace,
Whitestone.


What you're pushing is PAGAN HOGWASH. And no matter how much perfume one puts on a HOG, it still smells.
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,084
218
63
67
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Forget it Vet, "There are none so blind as they who will not see".

BTW, I agree with you vet.
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, whitestone.

You have a lot to learn Veteran. I'm happy to teach you if you put your pride down.

Here we go;

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

I heard His voice from the grave. I was dead in my grave before Christ resurrected me. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit guides us to know that WE are dead prior to hearing the Voice of Christ to repent and die to our sins and be raised up.
That hour came for me.
I was dead, I am now alive.
I was in the grave, I came forth in Christ's resurrection to Life, if by His Spirit I continue in Righteousness.
Or, if I continue in evil (as some folk say is unavoidable), I've come forth in resurrection only to damnation.
It isn't a "futuristic" calendar event. It was/is personal and happening right now.

It is you who are in need of teaching, not veteran! Your fictitious view of Scripture is going to catch up to you one of these days. Yeshua` the Messiah was not using some metaphoric language; He IS the resurrection and the life! Consider this passage of Scripture:

John 11:1-54
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said,
This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples,
Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered,
Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly,
Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her,
Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her,
I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said,
Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said,
Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her,
Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
KJV


Do you think that is just a nice fiction? A story to tell children? NO! Yeshua` IS the Resurrection and the Life! This is not just some nice fairy tale; IT IS A TRUE ACCOUNT OF THE EVENT!!!

Your "resurrection" doesn't BEGIN to compare with the real thing! No, that is NOT what Yeshua` meant about a day coming in which "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation!"

Second scripture you provided was;

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)

Of course, this is for EACH person, "each in their own order". This has been happening regularly amongst brethren for 2000 years now. It might happen for me today or tomorrow or the next. NOT in "one calendar day" sometime in the future for everyone on the planet lol, that is silliness and false doctrine and just a worthless private interpretation.
Here is how you should understand it;

(1Co 15:23) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

Notice "each in his own order". NOT some futuristic 'one day' cataclysm, lol!
This is how it works for EVERYONE that Paul is describing in 1 Cor 15.
Christ COMES to each person a different day and time. "Each in His own order". The simplest sentence contains such amazing meanings that float problems away immediately, if we are guided by the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus in us.
Christ doesn't come for someone after their bodies died or before they even exist yet. EACH MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER. Some people when they are young, others when they are old. Some people 1500 years ago, someone yesterday. THAT is HOW the Lord COMES! Some pretty cool simple scriptures that opens doors wide to see aren't they :)

Again, you are in error. The phrase "each in his own order" is not talking about a numberless chain of events, it is talking about the THREE events mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:20-28! Paul is talking about the resurrection throughout the chapter, and that is his focus in these verses, too:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV


The Messiah Yeshua` IS the "firstfruits"; He was resurrected in His glorified body FIRST.
THEN, the second group to be resurrected will be those who are His AT HIS COMING!!! This is "the resurrection of life."
The third group to be resurrected will be those who remain until THE END! This is "the resurrection of damnation."

These GROUPINGS are what the phrase "every man in his own order" is talking about, not individually! Each man has one of two remaining appointments to keep: They will either be resurrected BEFORE Yeshua` begins His reign, OR they will be resurrected AFTER Yeshua`s reign at the End, "when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power" and "He hath put all enemies under his feet!"

Again, your allegorical interpretation is insufficient.

Thirdly your scriptures here;

1Thes 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(KJV)

Yes, to some people, Christ Comes like this. Does this apply to you Veteran??

I hope not Veteran. It sure doesn't apply to me. For I am most definetly NOT of the "night" nor am I asleep! I am a Child of the Day! He will not overtake me as a thief in the night. Just as described in the very next verses;

(1Th 5:4) But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
(1Th 5:5) for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

So there you go.

Plain scriptures that speak of HOW Christ COMES, and it is "To each man in His own order" quite clearly. It is a personal Coming to each of us. A personal resurrection. NOW.

What scriptures do NOT say, and perfectly proven now, is that the Coming of Jesus is a one day calendar event such as taught by the futurists/dispensationalists/eschatologists, who will only destroy your understanding with their false "futurism" prophecies.

So what are we waiting for? Live in the resurrection of Christ in you Now To Day! :)

Peace,
Whitestone.

Again, context is everything. Open it up even further!

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (singular) so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope (OE for "assurance; confidence") of salvation (rescue).
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation (rescue) by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake (are alive) or sleep (are dead), we should live together with him (REAL RESURRECTION).
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
KJV


It's okay to live today, knowing that it's a "done-deal," but one should never lose sight of the REALITY of a future, LITERAL RESURRECTION!
 

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
Yes Retro, Jesus is the resurrection and the Life. Not an "event". It is NOW, if you receive Him.

You are waiting for an "event". You have so much to unlearn before you will cease to rail against truth... (sigh)

In the meantime, the REAL resurrection in Christ is passing you up. If you don't have Christ's resurrection Life in you NOW, you never will survive the "event" of death and see what you think is to be. "Each man in His own order" is what I quoted of scriptures. I believe God, not you.

Word to the wise...
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, whitestone.

Yes Retro, Jesus is the resurrection and the Life. Not an "event". It is NOW, if you receive Him.

You are waiting for an "event". You have so much to unlearn before you will cease to rail against truth... (sigh)

In the meantime, the REAL resurrection in Christ is passing you up. If you don't have Christ's resurrection Life in you NOW, you never will survive the "event" of death and see what you think is to be. "Each man in His own order" is what I quoted of scriptures. I believe God, not you.

Word to the wise...

Yes, and I believe God and NOT YOU! "Let God be true and EVERY MAN A LIAR!" You equally have much to unlearn before you can simply accept the clear message of Scripture! I can and HAVE received Yeshua` as my substitute, my sacrifice for sin, and I have been reconciled to God through exchanging places with Yeshua` the Messiah! The "REAL resurrection in Christ" is NOT "passing me up!" " I have been justified by God; however, that does NOT diminish the promises of a future resurrection when Yeshua` returns! You CAN'T KEEP RATIONALIZING AWAY GOD'S PROMISES!!! It's not RIGHT!!! With your incessant allegorization of Scripture, it is YOU who are missing out!
 

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
Shalom, whitestone.



Yes, and I believe God and NOT YOU! "Let God be true and EVERY MAN A LIAR!" You equally have much to unlearn before you can simply accept the clear message of Scripture! I can and HAVE received Yeshua` as my substitute, my sacrifice for sin, and I have been reconciled to God through exchanging places with Yeshua` the Messiah! The "REAL resurrection in Christ" is NOT "passing me up!" " I have been justified by God; however, that does NOT diminish the promises of a future resurrection when Yeshua` returns! You CAN'T KEEP RATIONALIZING AWAY GOD'S PROMISES!!! It's not RIGHT!!! With your incessant allegorization of Scripture, it is YOU who are missing out!

What am I missing out on?
Christ in us is the Resurrection and the Life. That is what God says. I believe it. I Live it. Nothing to "pass me by" :) Nothing to stand around "waiting" for to happen like some calendar event or something. You don't see me gazing up into heaven waiting for 'something' to happen. Nothing to "rationalize away" about the Word of God here. I have no personal axe to grind. Truth only is what I've spoken. I wish you enjoyed looking into these things Retro...

Ok, well then let's move on, this topic is only for fools. Or so Paul says... Because according to Paul, this futuristic idea is what "fools" concern themselves with because they can't "see" to comprehend the present reality of Resurrection. So in 1 Cor 15 Paul tells them this insignificant and inconsequential story of how the body is raised celestial as from terrestrial blah blah blah yes we know Paul. We live on after this body of flesh dies. Our "earthly tabernacle is clothed upon with immortality" he goes on to say. Yes, we all know this. Our bodies "then" compared to "now" physically, as the difference between earth and heaven, got it. Great, thanks. But it is only a story for fools who don't grasp the real story of importance, which is resurrection Life NOW. Because NONE of that is going to happen if we are not resurrected NOW and NOW walking in Newness of the Life of the Resurrected Christ in us.

Shall we be wise and speak about this?

(Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

This is what it is all about, It is all about NOW.
Paul the Apostle sees it different than you do Retro.

Everything having to do with Resurrection Life in Scriptures, is about our present Life of Christ Living in us now today.
It has to do with walking in newness of life. Only that is important. Nothing else is. That is why Paul calls them "fools" who can't get away from the futuristic idea of "what body will they get" lol! You can see that Paul is dealing with some shallow folk. That isn't the point concerning resurrection he is saying!

Here is what Paul says about people who concern themselves with the future resurrection of their body;

(1Co 15:35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

(Lol, who would ask that?)

(1Co 15:36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

A fool's question. Why? Because they aren't concerning themselves with the Spiritual walk. Their minds only circle around "physical" realms. They are carnal instead of spiritual.

So No, let's not ask questions about resurrection as fools do. Let us not concern ourselves with such trivial unimportant stuff. Let us just do as wise men do, and Live the Resurrection Life by Receiving Christ in us while it is called NOW, TO DAY, who IS THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE :) Then we are being wise! Then everything else is academic and moot.

Peace in Christ,
Whitestone
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hepzibah
E

epouraniois

Guest
Christ had died for the ungodly while they were yet sinners, they didn’t even repent, or have faith; He died for us quite independently of that. The repentance and faith came afterwards. And yet, we are distinctly told that when He died, God reckoned that we died with Him. We read that we are crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, raised with Him, and Seated with Him, but there is a step that we have just ran past when we think like this. So I want to stop and say that even now, right now; we’re quickened with Him. We are not having to wait until the future. Even now, we are quickened with Him.

The word quickened is a word that is used in regards to this life; however, this quickening takes place long before birth, and without any obvious evidences in this world. It is an individual matter.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;)
V1 is in anticipaion of v5, the translators couldn’t help themselves, since there is no word “”in”” and the present tense is active, they could not, and can not, say that a believer is; at this present time; is dead “in” sin. And they can’t say that after Christ who has bore our sin, and died on the tree that, therefore, you now are dead “in” sin.

You are dead “to” sin. If you are dead to sin, what’s going to happen to you? Well, you’re going to have immortality. Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Is that true or not? We’re still mortal, we’re still here. In what way have we passed from death into life; well the scriptures says it started within. We should remember, 2Co 4:16 states that our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. This renewal day by day is now, and anticipates the quickening for those to be raised and seated with Him as He has purposed. Look at this peculiar title we have in Romans:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even “”God, who quickeneth the dead””, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. This is God who can do this. God quickened Abraham’s old man, and by his faith, put on the new man while he was yet alive. Do you see this yet? There are two aspects of quickening then. This quickening had to do with a promise. God said his seed shall be numbered as the stars, and Abraham believed, and it was counted to him for righteousness. Rom 4:20} He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21} And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22} And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23} Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24} But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; This is brought forth as an example, that God is the God who quickens the dead, and not merely yet future, but now. Now, God is the God of life right now.

Rom 8:10} And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Sin is death, and hard peddled, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness, and this becomes self evident for those of the church of the one body; who in all things do live for Him, that the mortal body now, can be quickened. Rom 8:11} But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 2:19} For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Gal 2:20} I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I live now, not because of my faith, but my faith is counted as righteousness, and therefore, the faith of the Son of God who loves me, and gave himself for me, quickens me, Now; makes me a new man, now.
2Co 4:7} But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8} We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 2Co 4:9} Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
Why Paul, Why do you tell us these things? 10} Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11} For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12} So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 13} We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

And likewise for every person who comes to the acknowledgment of all of the Biblical truths, then insofar as it is God’s good pleasure, we are Col 2:12} Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13} And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:20} Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So if we are quickened in this life now, then the sting of death is effectively removed. When an unsaved person dies, death has its sting, but when a believer dies, where is its sting? It is removed, for we are given victory now, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is our life now. I can be just as unconscious to the world as I was when I was a child, for my life is hid with Christ in God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whitestone

whitestone

New Member
Apr 3, 2011
368
24
0
Gold Beach Oregon
Christ had died for the ungodly while they were yet sinners, they didn’t even repent, or have faith; He died for us quite independently of that. The repentance and faith came afterwards. And yet, we are distinctly told that when He died, God reckoned that we died with Him. We read that we are crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, raised with Him, and Seated with Him, but there is a step that we have just ran past when we think like this. So I want to stop and say that even now, right now; we’re quickened with Him. We are not having to wait until the future. Even now, we are quickened with Him.

The word quickened is a word that is used in regards to this life; however, this quickening takes place long before birth, and without any obvious evidences in this world. It is an individual matter.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;)
V1 is in anticipaion of v5, the translators couldn’t help themselves, since there is no word “”in”” and the present tense is active, they could not, and can not, say that a believer is; at this present time; is dead “in” sin. And they can’t say that after Christ who has bore our sin, and died on the tree that, therefore, you now are dead “in” sin.

You are dead “to” sin. If you are dead to sin, what’s going to happen to you? Well, you’re going to have immortality. Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Is that true or not? We’re still mortal, we’re still here. In what way have we passed from death into life; well the scriptures says it started within. We should remember, 2Co 4:16 states that our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. This renewal day by day is now, and anticipates the quickening for those to be raised and seated with Him as He has purposed. Look at this peculiar title we have in Romans:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even “”God, who quickeneth the dead””, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. This is God who can do this. God quickened Abraham’s old man, and by his faith, put on the new man while he was yet alive. Do you see this yet? There are two aspects of quickening then. This quickening had to do with a promise. God said his seed shall be numbered as the stars, and Abraham believed, and it was counted to him for righteousness. Rom 4:20} He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21} And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22} And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23} Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24} But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; This is brought forth as an example, that God is the God who quickens the dead, and not merely yet future, but now. Now, God is the God of life right now.

Rom 8:10} And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Sin is death, and hard peddled, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness, and this becomes self evident for those of the church of the one body; who in all things do live for Him, that the mortal body now, can be quickened. Rom 8:11} But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 2:19} For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Gal 2:20} I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I live now, not because of my faith, but my faith is counted as righteousness, and therefore, the faith of the Son of God who loves me, and gave himself for me, quickens me, Now; makes me a new man, now.
2Co 4:7} But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8} We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 2Co 4:9} Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
Why Paul, Why do you tell us these things? 10} Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11} For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12} So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 13} We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

And likewise for every person who comes to the acknowledgment of all of the Biblical truths, then insofar as it is God’s good pleasure, we are Col 2:12} Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13} And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:20} Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So if we are quickened in this life now, then the sting of death is effectively removed. When an unsaved person dies, death has its sting, but when a believer dies, where is its sting? It is removed, for we are given victory now, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is our life now. I can be just as unconscious to the world as I was when I was a child, for my life is hid with Christ in God.

Nice post :)
Amen
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whitestone,
I'm curious. Who do you define Jesus (called Christ) to be? Who do you define God to be? Does God's character encompass justice? How would you define justice? Do you believe God's word to be true and eternally so? How would you define the Holy Spirit? How would you define the "new birth" or being born again in the Spirit?
I don't need a treatise, just some simple and straight forward responses without the characteristic disdain of some of your previous posts, if you would oblige.
 

revturmoil

New Member
Feb 26, 2011
816
11
0
69
New Hampshire's North Woods
Forget it Vet, "There are none so blind as they who will not see".

BTW, I agree with you vet.

And I'm with Vet on this one too!

I've died in Christ. The "second death" (when this body dies) has no power over me.

The "last day" is that day. The day this body dies.
But I have eternal life in Christ's resurrection even now. Thus saith the Word of God of course.

The "resurrection" is not a "calendar event" as Jesus says to Martha.
Martha was wrong in her answer that the "resurrection" was a "future" event.


That is why Jesus corrected her with this answer, "I am the resurrection and the Life".
It isn't an "event". It is a "state of being alive" in the resurrection who IS Christ. NOW. (i.e. Rom 13;11)
The correct interpretation of "the last day" has nothing to do with futurism.

John 6:40, 44, and 54 and 11:24 say's that at the last day there will be a resurrection.

John 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

And according to this verse...

John 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Tells me at the last day there will be a judgment.

In this verse there's a resurrection and translation at the last day.,

1 Corinthians 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It's the same word for last here... where it definetly means last.

Revelation 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

These are the choices for last that John, Paul, and Jesus had.

2078 'eschatos' when used in context with a judgment and resurrection certainly means the extreme last day of this age and that's what the words meaning implies.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=last

The Day of the Lord is about a 45 day period where the Lord fulfills all of the prophecies of this present age.