Polygamy
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Then heres a couple of verses for the pro polygamy supporters.Pelaides said:
Luke 6:45
Matthew 12:34
For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
Jesus does not contradict the Bible but our doctrine often does...let's not get the two mixed up.
Obviously my explanation went completely over your head . . . . . never mind. Maybe someone with an open mind will actually be able to read past the OP of this forum without getting offended and shutting of their reasoning, and understand.Selene said:
I believe if we read this scripture without bias it is obvious the Paul was not talking about polygamy but simply about marriage. If you notice he specifically says that he wants them to have a wife so that they can judge how they manage their own household before the are consider for a management position in the church. I don't think that Paul is even addressing polgyamy at all. And really, if polygamy was anything close to what some have disparaged it as being here on this forum don't you think that Paul would have addressed it for the terrible sin that some think it to be? The merle lack of mention of polygamy in the New Testament and the abundant mention of it in the Old Testament signifies to me that it was an "understood" and not an issue of sin. Why would the apostles go into such great length about sin and not address this issue specifically if it was as terrible and some seem to want to make it out to be?
Furthermore, those who stand against this doctrine are you doing anything about the unmarried women in your church? Are you finding them husbands? How long to you want them to sit in the pew and be a good Christian singles...so holy and so blessed? How long do you wish to deny them children and the happiness of love? You have yours but what about them? Are there not good men of God in your church that could bless them as a co-wife? Do you want them to fall to temptation from unbelievers because there is no suitable Christian mate to be found in the Church. This is what I mean when I say that those who cast stones stand without fear of hurt while those who have the stones cast at them suffer greatly. Marriage to you is some ethereal thing that has mystic meaning like the doctrine of the blessed virgin Mary. This is not what marriage is about. Marriage is about loving a woman and bringing forth after our kind for the glory of God's kingdom. Your doctrine denies good women of God the chance to be fruitful and multiply. It costs you nothing while it makes them sit in church year after year with dwindling possibilities of finding a mate and bearing children. This is why I hate legalism. Legalism simply does not care if a woman passes her youth without bearing children because bless God all things are done decently and in order! Bless God we are holy and doing things right. It does not care to see if these things can possibly be true so that those among us can be blessed. Legalism makes those so infected to become heartless and to put away their natural compassion in favor of something they perceive to be written in stone. However, did not David eat the shew bread? Did not Jesus' disciples roll corn in their hands to eat on the Sabbath? When the law crushes people it is not longer a blessing but a cursing. When doctrine crushes people it is not of God but simply a tool of the devil to pervert and supplant what God intended as a blessing. Legalism is doctrine without heart.
Furthermore, those who stand against this doctrine are you doing anything about the unmarried women in your church? Are you finding them husbands? How long to you want them to sit in the pew and be a good Christian singles...so holy and so blessed? How long do you wish to deny them children and the happiness of love? You have yours but what about them? Are there not good men of God in your church that could bless them as a co-wife? Do you want them to fall to temptation from unbelievers because there is no suitable Christian mate to be found in the Church. This is what I mean when I say that those who cast stones stand without fear of hurt while those who have the stones cast at them suffer greatly. Marriage to you is some ethereal thing that has mystic meaning like the doctrine of the blessed virgin Mary. This is not what marriage is about. Marriage is about loving a woman and bringing forth after our kind for the glory of God's kingdom. Your doctrine denies good women of God the chance to be fruitful and multiply. It costs you nothing while it makes them sit in church year after year with dwindling possibilities of finding a mate and bearing children. This is why I hate legalism. Legalism simply does not care if a woman passes her youth without bearing children because bless God all things are done decently and in order! Bless God we are holy and doing things right. It does not care to see if these things can possibly be true so that those among us can be blessed. Legalism makes those so infected to become heartless and to put away their natural compassion in favor of something they perceive to be written in stone. However, did not David eat the shew bread? Did not Jesus' disciples roll corn in their hands to eat on the Sabbath? When the law crushes people it is not longer a blessing but a cursing. When doctrine crushes people it is not of God but simply a tool of the devil to pervert and supplant what God intended as a blessing. Legalism is doctrine without heart.
Selene
New Member
We don't forbid marriage. The priests and bishops CHOSE to remain celibate because that is the higher calling. They want to imitate Christ, who is single. No one is forcing them to become a priest. It is God's calling, and it is their decision to answer the call or not. Protestant pastors who are married and converted to Catholicism also remains married in the Catholic Church.Raeneske said:
Furthermore, the Catholics in the eastern-rite Church can marry. If a married man wants to become a Catholic priest, he can join the Byzantine Catholic Church, which is also considered Roman Catholic. If he wants to become a priest and remain celibate, he can join the western-rite Catholic Church.
The biblical verse that Metatron quoted is quite appropriate for this thread and shows the immorality of polygamy.
1 Corinthians 7:2 but because of cases of immoratlity every man should have his own wife and every woman her own husband.
Scripture did not say every man should have their own wives (plural). Scripture shows that a man should have only one wife and a woman should have only one husband.
First, I am against Polygamy. We're on the same page there.Selene said:
No, they don't "choose" it, because they are not allowed the option of "choosing" whether they want to remain celibate while they are a priest or not.
That's the only exception (besides the Eastern rites), that if they marry before they become a preacher, they can be married. They should be able to choose to become a preacher and choose whether they want to be married or not as a preacher. In other words, give them the decision as a preacher, not to become a preacher.
Selene
New Member
In the first place, Raeneske, they do have a choice whether they want to become a priest or not. We do not go around telling little boys to become a priest when they grow up. No one forces them to join the priesthood. It is open to men. Before joining the priesthood, all of them were already aware that they are not to take a wife, so it was their choice. All of them joined the priesthood anyway despite that they were already aware that they are not to marry. It was their choice. Their intention of joining the priesthood was to serve God and imitate Christ who was celibate. That is the higher calling of God. Even God told the prophet Jeremiah not to marry. Jeremiah listened because that was God's calling to him.Raeneske said:
Jeremiah 16:1-2 This message came to me from the Lord: Do not marry any woman; you shall not have sons or daughters in this place.
The Lord God commanded the prophet Jeremiah not to marry. Would you say that God was wrong and was forcing Jeremiah not to marry? This is God's higher calling that we recognized. St. Paul also recognized this higher calling, which is why he spoke of so highly of being single and celibacy. Christ also recognized this higher calling. What God says is NOT wrong. So, when men chose to become Catholic priests knowing full well that they will be celibate like Jesus Christ, it was their choice to answer a higher calling from God. If married men wish to become Catholic priests, they can, and the rule here is that they are to remain married to that person.
Really,,,,, It's pretty clear to see the desire of your heart.Justin Mangonel said:
It consist of returning to Eden and running around with multiple wives butt naked.
Your second post on this forum after posting a C/P from your site was right here in the polygamy thread.
And you have never returned to defend your theory of
In your "and they were not ashamed thread"
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17021-and-they-were-not-ashamed/
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
You deny the deity of Christ as well. Thou you deny it, I say your a Mormon to the bone looking to father your own little world.
Dear Rex.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that you took from my writings that we should be naked? My word, you have completely missed the mark.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that you took from my writings that we should be naked? My word, you have completely missed the mark.
That is what your writings convey, although you may not put it in so many words.
You are very quick with your judgments. Having read both yours and Rex's posts, I find Rex keenly in line with the meaning God's word.
Selene,Selene said:
Now, let's put the Lord's statement back in context:
Jeremiah 16:1-4 The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying, Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place. For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land; They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
So, did God say to Jeremiah, he shall not eternally have a wife? No, he stated that he was not to take a wife out of that place because God was going to destroy those people.
Regarding the priests that marry, you're missing the point. Of course people choose to become a priest, and of course they know what the church says about it. This doesn't mean your church is right in doing so, however. This had to be implemented sometime, whether from the beginning, or added during the years. The point is not whether they choose to be a priest. The point is, if they become priests, you CANNOT say, "You now cannot marry." Whether they're a priest, bishop, etc, matters not. They should have the choice while they are a priest, if they want to marry or not. And that's the point. The ability to choose while being a priest has to be granted to them.
1 Timothy 4:1 - 5a
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
What is it which Catholics are not allowed to eat on a certain day of the week?
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
What is it which Catholics are not allowed to eat on a certain day of the week?
Dear Dragon,
Birds of a feather seem to flock together. Actually, having read R's comments I find them very judgemental of me personally and having little to do with the topic at hand. That is ok though becasue R musings about me do not really figure into the debate...smile.
I do think it is bad from to make these discussions personal...but there is little that can be done about such behavior.
Birds of a feather seem to flock together. Actually, having read R's comments I find them very judgemental of me personally and having little to do with the topic at hand. That is ok though becasue R musings about me do not really figure into the debate...smile.
I do think it is bad from to make these discussions personal...but there is little that can be done about such behavior.
Its quite alright for you to express your opinions isn't it. and would prefer to do it uninhibited or unchallenged, your standard reply to questioning your many thread starters, about you and your beliefs is, please don't judge me "make it personal", well testing the spirits is exactly what we are told to do.Justin Mangonel said:
To avoid the trouble of finding your post your belief is that Jesus didn't become the son of God until His baptism.
Like I said, you B lined straight toward this thread as soon as you started posting here.
The majority of your time is spent defending polygamy.
Not to mention, The many and long exhortations about your beliefs --> Thread --> "And they were not ashamed"
Your belief isn't biblical sound, for lack of a better description its a feel good, shoot from the hip kind of faith.
All retentive observations that YOU presented, a profile about your character, sorry you don't like it. Maybe you should consider your beliefs and actions before you become upset with how they compare to scripture.
You fit the Mormon profile
and yes your not "ashamed thread" certainly implies nakedness is godliness and we will return to it, which you now avoid like the plague, i can only imagine because your position is undefendable.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17021-and-they-were-not-ashamed/
I would seem you prefer to stand at a distance and call questioning your doctrine "a personal attack"
Catholics were originally supposed to fast on "Good Friday",as a sign of respect when they observed the crucifixtion of Jesus.But because of human weakness ,they chose to just abstain from meat.
Dear R,
The spirit of suspicion is mightily upon you I see. Perhaps we could add the gift of suspicion to the other nine and make it an even ten.
I have to chuckle to myself sometimes when people seem to jump to conclusions without knowing what they are talking about. I am sorry you seem to dislike Mormons so much....did they hurt you in some way? Personally, I am not a Mormon and I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I think that whole religion is a sham. However, if you are intent on ferreting out Mormons I guess no one can stop you. Lead the crusade bro...grin.
Having been in Africa I know something about this topic because I was confronted with it early on in my ministry. Many people that seem to speak about this topic do so without any firsthand knowledge of it. Do you, Rex, have firsthand knowledge of people living in polygamy or are you just a theoretical activist against it? Have you been friends with any polygamous families? Have you seen how their wives interact? I hope you have because if you have not I would wonder how you seem to speak so authoritatively on the subject. On the other hand I have and from experience I can tell you and others on this forum that when they judge such families as living in sin they are missing the mark badly. I know the reality and I know the theology and I will repeat again for everyone's edification that God does not care one way or the other about the numerical value of a man's wives.
In the boarder scheme of things I detest all forms of legalism. I feel sad when people pronounces judgment upon others without compassion. Having been a legalist myself I perhaps am a bit overly sensitive to it. I am personally glad Jesus said to the woman caught in the very act of adultery "neither do I accuse thee." That is the God I serve. I want to seek ways for people to live out Gods word in happiness if at all possible.
Sometimes people have spirits that drive them to be critical of others even though, in their hearts, they don't want to be that way. I understand this and I don't take offense when some, in the past, have tried to pigeon hole me. I can most assuredly say that I am not any form of pigeon you know or have met. I am a Tabernacle Christian. If you cannot accept this then that is ok...but I think you will be seeing more of my type of Christian in the days to come.
Have a blessed day,
Justin
The spirit of suspicion is mightily upon you I see. Perhaps we could add the gift of suspicion to the other nine and make it an even ten.
I have to chuckle to myself sometimes when people seem to jump to conclusions without knowing what they are talking about. I am sorry you seem to dislike Mormons so much....did they hurt you in some way? Personally, I am not a Mormon and I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I think that whole religion is a sham. However, if you are intent on ferreting out Mormons I guess no one can stop you. Lead the crusade bro...grin.
Having been in Africa I know something about this topic because I was confronted with it early on in my ministry. Many people that seem to speak about this topic do so without any firsthand knowledge of it. Do you, Rex, have firsthand knowledge of people living in polygamy or are you just a theoretical activist against it? Have you been friends with any polygamous families? Have you seen how their wives interact? I hope you have because if you have not I would wonder how you seem to speak so authoritatively on the subject. On the other hand I have and from experience I can tell you and others on this forum that when they judge such families as living in sin they are missing the mark badly. I know the reality and I know the theology and I will repeat again for everyone's edification that God does not care one way or the other about the numerical value of a man's wives.
In the boarder scheme of things I detest all forms of legalism. I feel sad when people pronounces judgment upon others without compassion. Having been a legalist myself I perhaps am a bit overly sensitive to it. I am personally glad Jesus said to the woman caught in the very act of adultery "neither do I accuse thee." That is the God I serve. I want to seek ways for people to live out Gods word in happiness if at all possible.
Sometimes people have spirits that drive them to be critical of others even though, in their hearts, they don't want to be that way. I understand this and I don't take offense when some, in the past, have tried to pigeon hole me. I can most assuredly say that I am not any form of pigeon you know or have met. I am a Tabernacle Christian. If you cannot accept this then that is ok...but I think you will be seeing more of my type of Christian in the days to come.
Have a blessed day,
Justin
Nice straw-man, as well as leading way from the content of your post.
Did you learn that dance in Africa as well
I read one of your stories, you were the star as you blazed threw the jungle to the mountain top, finding the sacred shrine of the forbidden god and destroyed it thus breaking generations of superstition believe by the village. Your a legion
Did you learn that dance in Africa as well
I read one of your stories, you were the star as you blazed threw the jungle to the mountain top, finding the sacred shrine of the forbidden god and destroyed it thus breaking generations of superstition believe by the village. Your a legion
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