revturmoil
New Member
And I often say that the man of sin will be an Assyrian!
Babylon is Babylon and nothing else other than being figurative of false religion.
America is Babylon
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And I often say that the man of sin will be an Assyrian!
Babylon is Babylon and nothing else other than being figurative of false religion.
You are correct ..... I looked it up again .... Rome is built on 7 hills ..... Vatican sits to the side on a different hill .....
I tend to think so too. ...... Around Jeremiah 50-51 when it talks about "Babylon the great" it also says the lands of the Babylonians ..... so yes ..... sounds like the same geographical area (Assyrian region)
revturmoil
New Member
The word hills is better translated mountain. (oros) I think only East Jerusalem can fulfill the city of 7 mountains. I'm not sure.
Did you know???
Mecca is also said to be built on seven hills and it has 7 entrances and 10 spires!
The hills are.
1) Jabal abu Siba’
2) Jabal Safa
3) Jabal Marwah
4) Jabal abu Milhah
5) Jabal abu Ma’aya
6) Jabal abu Hulayah
7) Jabal abu Ghuzlan
Please check this out.
http://www.freejesus...ls of Mecca.txt
How about this Chapter and verse? Is America mentioned here?
1 Come near, you nations, to hear; And heed, you people! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations, And His fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.
Yes (thanks) .... I am aware that Jerusalem has 7 hills (mountains) and there is speculation that it may be the Babylon of prophecy ..... and of course to go along with that thinking is the conspiracy about the Jews and the Rothschild controlling all the money in the world.
I am not a conspiracy theory advocate and do not support those views.
However Jesus accused some Jews of being .... "the synagog of Satan" .... if that isn't strong language .... I don't know what is. Maybe there is the possibility that before the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven ... the "old Jerusalem" will have completely sold out to the enemy.
My (personal) viewpoint is that Jerusalem tends to represent "the good" thru history .... and Babylon "the bad" .... but I could be wrong.
I am usually reluctant to reproduce other people's work , but here is a pretty decent article about Jerusalem and Rome and 7 hills (mountains)
It was common custom in the centuries before Christ for people in the Roman world to refer to the City of Rome itself as the "City of Seven Hills." The references are numerous and consistent. And indeed, when Romulus and Remus wanted to build a city in the area of the Tibur River (just inland from the coast to afford a greater protection for the city from sea pirates or from the naval warfare of hostile powers), it was divinely selected, in Roman parlance, that the city had to be on "seven hills." The number "seven" was a universal symbol that signified "completion" or "perfection," and the ancients who founded Rome wanted people to know that this particular city was destined to have a world influence and fame, and that it was no ordinary city that was being constructed in the 8[sup]th[/sup] century BC.
The fact that Rome was designated "The Seven Hilled City" was significant enough to render it as a sacred and holy city that was designed to have world power and authority. This is one of the reasons the ancient people of the world always respected the City of Rome, whether they were its arch defenders and supporters or its enemies and were alien to its political and religious concepts. Even when the city in the time of the Empire finally grew beyond the strict limits of the "Seven Hills" (and reached out to embrace other hills in the vicinity and even hills on the other side of the Tibur River, such as Vatican Hill), the people for nostalgic reasons still retained the name of the city by its original designation: "the City of Seven Hills."
But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8[sup]th[/sup] century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.
http://askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[a] Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. Revelation 11:7-9
This sounds like Babylon may be Jerusalem, but then again, its symbolic language. Perhaps its intended to be understood in similar terms to Bunyan's "vanity fair," from A Pilgrim's Progress, and has a more general meaning. I think that time will tell soon enough. I still hope to take an early retirement and put at least a few hundred miles between myself and Manhattan. I had to work for a short while this afternoon down below the WTC and I always feel more comfortable when I'm leaving it.
God bless and good night.
This sounds like Babylon may be Jerusalem, but then again, its symbolic language. Perhaps its intended to be understood in similar terms to Bunyan's "vanity fair," from A Pilgrim's Progress, and has a more general meaning. I think that time will tell soon enough. I still hope to take an early retirement and put at least a few hundred miles between myself and Manhattan. I had to work for a short while this afternoon down below the WTC and I always feel more comfortable when I'm leaving it.
God bless and good night.
Hi Michael .... how do you make the connection between those parts of rev 11 with the city of babylon ?
I am not saying it is , or isn't .... Babylon .... I don't need a bunch of scriptures or a whole lot of info ... so if you can give me a couple of quick pointers is fine. (no hurry)- (you sound busy)
Interesting your "feelings" around WTC .... I have never been there yet .....
By the way , every once in a while New York seems to fit (some of) the Babylon descriptions .... revelation can make my mind go off in strange directions sometimes.
thanks.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
(Rev 17:8 ESV)
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
(Rev 17:9 ESV)
they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
(Rev 17:10 ESV)
As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.
(Rev 17:11 ESV)
The seven hills on which the woman is seated are seven kingdoms:
Babylon: the lion
Media Persia: the bear
Greece: the leopard= the four heads which comprise
Turkey
Syria
Egypt
Rome
Five have fallen:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
One is= Rome
One is yet to come= The first Ottoman Caliphate
The eighth which was and is not which belongs to the seventh is the last Islamic Caliphate which is today forming under Islam and the Islamic Brotherhood.
You are looking for seven literal hills but you should be looking for seven mountain kingdoms.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
(Rev 17:8 ESV)
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
(Rev 17:9 ESV)
they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
(Rev 17:10 ESV)
As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.
(Rev 17:11 ESV)
The seven hills on which the woman is seated are seven kingdoms:
Babylon: the lion
Media Persia: the bear
Greece: the leopard= the four heads which comprise
Turkey
Syria
Egypt
Rome
Five have fallen:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
One is= Rome
One is yet to come= The first Ottoman Caliphate
The eighth which was and is not which belongs to the seventh is the last Islamic Caliphate which is today forming under Islam and the Islamic Brotherhood.
You are looking for seven literal hills but you should be looking for seven mountain kingdoms.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
America is not one of the nations of earth or anything that has come forth from earth since that scripture was written?
Hi Bob
any explanation why it says ........ (singular) ....... city on seven hills
According to (your version) it would have to read .....(plural) ....... seven cities on seven hills
wouldn't it ?
some examples:
Woe! Woe, O great city, O Babylon, city of power! In one hour your doom has come!’
“‘Woe! Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
“‘Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth
Was there ever a city like this great city
With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
(quotes are taken from rev 18 ... and appear to describe a single city ) --- (unless I missed something)
true it does say ..... (in rev 17:9) ... The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
but I can also read that as .... "the (group) of seven heads are all together in the (one) city built on seven hills"
If you can figure out what I just said Bob .... you are genius
the mystery of "mystery Babylon" deepens
talk later.
thanks.
======================================
ps: .... your quote .......
".... you should be looking for seven mountain kingdoms. ."
..... could be plausible ..... but are we sure those (supposed) seven kingdoms each sits on its own mountain ???
Arnie.
revturmoil
New Member
Not one end time prophecy points to Rome or the USA. If you think they do then you have a host of contradictions to confront.
What Saint posted is the old Protestant view of Rev. 17 and I don't believe it.
You can make anything fit the way some people interpret these things.
Here's the problem I see with the Protestant prophecy experts. They seldom show you how they arive at their conclusions. They tell you this is what it is and that's it. No explanation why and no resources given to support what they believe. I fell for it too and smartened up. I actually didn't become a minister in the early 70's because i questioned too many things and I knew that if I were to be a minister in any church I would have to accept the whole ball of doctrinal wax so I never went through with it. I use be be a pre-trib globalist too but no longer believe the experts since I started doing my own homework around 1992.
What is it in Revelation 17 that indicates to you that the beast is figurative of centuries old past empires? I think God is being more specific and less complicated here. I think all the beast mentioned in Revelation as well as the four beast in Daniel 7 are complete end-time entities.
Because the word "before" in Daniel 7 means 'in the presence of' and not historically before....and because there's no indication in Revelation 11, 13, 17, etc. that any of these beast represents past empires, I say that all of them are completely figurative of end-time kings and empires.
Now think about the 7 heads and ten horns.
The ten horns are ten kings "which have received no kingdom as yet;"
But receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Why would anybody think these are past empires?
It sounds to me that the beast that was and is not...and yet lives makes some kind of coalition with some of the kings/countries that are now falling in the region.
I think this guy could be Saddam and have explained in previous post why that's possible. There are some strange, coincidental, and even compelling evidence why he could be this beast.
Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
This entire vision of a 7 headed ten horned beast with a harlot that sits upon it is fugurative of an Arab/Islamic Empire wth Islam and the jihadist responsible for filling the harlot's cup. I keep telling you that that region is now in apostasy and two maybe three kings have already fallen. The formation of these beast could easily come to pass in a few years, and I think the prophetic fulfillment of these end-time empires described in Daniel 7 and Revelation are coming. A power struggle for dominance of the region is coming. It's not difficult to determine from where these beast will originate.
For those those of you who believe Rome or the US are the end-time Babylon...
And for those of you who have fallen for the teachings of the prophecy experts...
One part of my method of interpretation is this.
Whatever I believe about doctrine or end-time prophecy cannot contradict any other scripture on the same subject in the bible. If it does it's not true. A Roman/Itallian or USA beast is completely contradictory.
Logic, simplicity, and objectivity go a long way in understanding this and John calls it wisdom. Anything that is complicated is usually not true when it comes to interpretation.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Revelation 17:1 ¶And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Babylon is likely Mecca! The blood of the saints and martyrs are mostly all future as Islam beheads saints that will not accept Allah as god; of course they become martyrs because of this action of faith.
As far as kings of the earth committing immorality with her, let me ask do the leaders of this age submit to Saudi Arabia over the oil she provides to the world?
Madih is said by Islam to have disappeared into a deep pit but is expected to return to lead the next Caliphate to rule the world. A deep pit is exactly what the beast (Apollyon) in Rev 9 ascends from; this is the same beast that kills the two prophets in Rev 11 and of course it is the beast of Rev 17.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
As far as kings of the earth committing immorality with her, let me ask do the leaders of this age submit to Saudi Arabia over the oil she provides to the world?
Madih is said by Islam to have disappeared into a deep pit but is expected to return to lead the next Caliphate to rule the world. A deep pit is exactly what the beast (Apollyon) in Rev 9 ascends from; this is the same beast that kills the two prophets in Rev 11 and of course it is the beast of Rev 17.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
revturmoil
New Member
I's good to see that you have an open mind about all of this. Too many people think they (and the experts) have this all figured out and refuse to consider other views of prophecy.
Quit equivocating, it's very annoying. God (through Isaiah) is talking about the PAST (Edom), not the future (America).
thanks, but not interested any more with the idea that America is Babylon. It's not a Biblical teaching, period. And if you keep on believing it, you'll miss a lot of the forewarnings our Lord Jesus gave us about the end time beast kingdom and beast king, and won't be prepared for what's coming.
One only has to look at the developments in the world today to understand who the enemy of Yeshua really is. Islam is the system that denies Yeshua as the Son of Yahweh. Islam is the system who is consolidating the Middle East into a organized force (Caliphate) against the forces of righteousness. It is Islam who considers Jerusalem as a Holy Site and desires to rule their United States of Islam from there. It is Islam who has no interest in political agreement but is only interested in ruling the world for Allah and as such it is their intent to destroy all of those who do not bow to Allah.
Islam has been the opposing system against Yahwehs people since the beginning and will be the ones who come against Yeshua in the end.
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
Hi Vet, That's ok but as for your statement: "It's not a Biblical teaching, period." I believe there are more scriptual foundations for this belief than any other. God told us in Rev. 17:9 that it takes "wisdom" to understand these things. Imo, those who fall for the obvious are the ones who are missing the boat and lacking in wisdom, but again that's just my opinion.
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