Two witnesses 2+2=2?

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veteran

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The problem with that is Terry, Satan will masquerade as Jesus Christ, and claim he changed the Sabbath to Sunday. If they do not exalt God's law, then you cannot believe them. And Terry, our understanding is quite different regarding the two witnesses. You believe it's two people, I believe it is the two Testaments of the living Word. This is also why I cannot believe you say you know the two witnesses. I tried to post a study on what the two witnesses actually were, but I remember not where I posted it.



If you have seen the verse from Terry, you will have seen that "when a prophet speaketh in the Name of the Lord..." verse. This applies to such a comment made by Ellen White, and she herself made not that yes they expected Christ would come sooner. However the time coming of Christ is conditional upon the people who are and are not doing the work. The message was not being done. Ellen White gave the understanding that such was a conditional prophecy.

Consider the prophet Jonah. His prophecy did not appear conditional did it? He told them, for what they were doing, they were to be destroyed. But what did they do? They repented, and turned to God. Then God reversed His decision.

When God gave the angel the message to give to Ellen White, it did not appear conditional. There were judgemets placed upon all, good or bad. However, they did not keep doing what they should have been doing. Does this mean Ellen White, or God for that matter, was wrong? No. God knew he would not destroy where Jonah prophecied, and He knew that His Son would not be arriving at that time.

Ellen White TRIED to make the time of Christ's coming 'conditional' BECAUSE her set date for His return FAILED! That's the full truth of the matter of what she claimed.

Christ's 2nd coming is NOT... conditional. It is un-conditional.

When God gives a prophetic event linked with an IF, then THAT is conditional. IF you do this or that... then... the result will happen, or IF you don't do this or that... then... the result will happen. That's an example of a conditional prophecy in God's Word.

But what did our Lord Jesus say about His 2nd coming? He said He WILL... come. He did NOT apply any conditional statements with that. He applied WARNINGS to be watching so as to be ready for His coming!

Ellen White's prophecy of the date of Christ's 2nd coming failed. So she simply applied the false idea to Christ's coming as being 'conditional' when that idea is nowhere written in God's Word. All they've been doing is drilling that conditional idea into your head so you won't question why her prophecy failed.
 

Raeneske

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And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. (Jonah 3:4 KJV)

Please show me the if in that sentence, to make this prophecy conditional.
 

veteran

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All that has been well documented about Ellen White's failed prophecies, and the cult connections of those with her, and her plagarisms in claiming it was prophecy given her by God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3MojgOIvk&feature=relmfu
 

Spirit Covenant

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Hi... Yes I know them. They will be as powerful, but their time of power is not yet. Yes, you could come and meet them. I have said many times,,, first a proper test should be given for them to pass. Their time is not yet, so the test would require to pre-test them before their are given the power of a prophet. A delicate situation, requiring great wisdom. Now, just imagine the glee in your heart if you knew them before their time starts and so know them as their time is. It is my sincere hope that when the world exchanges gifts for the feaths of the two witnesses... that this prophecy is either a generalization or...those that knew them as the two witnesses exchange gifts because of the gladness they have in their heart knowing in just a matter of hours these two will ascend to Heaven.

Now, I could despence with the test... as I know them and I know they are the two witnesses, but since others here have not accepted them, the first step should be a test. I cannot test them...for God told me who they are in a vision...So I have zero need of me testing them. They live in Florida.

I am going to coin a phrase I feel needed.... Denial withOut Provable Evidence -- DOPE
Meaning simple denial is not proof, nor is complex denial without any evidence... it is but DOPE

In God's Word it is said.... Any Every Knee Will Bend... here God has shown that DENIAL without proof will not work, is not acceptable, will not be tolerated. Many may attempt to try simply denying God, But God reccognizes this and wil not tolerate it. Of course, that instance concerns the existance of God and Jesus.



So the reality is that you think that God is going to give you the power some day to be one of the witnesses? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Jesus had the power from birth. Elijah had the power from the time He knew about God. Here is your test. Those who claim to know someone who is powerless or those who claim to be the two prophets who come with no power are just bladders of hot air. Do you know how many blow hards there are going around claiming these things? What a disappointment.






.
 

tgwprophet

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Did I say that I know them and know who they are or Did I say I am one of them? Please have your understanding straight first. Now as far as the two witnesses bein impowered from birth.... the Word of God DOES NOT say they will have any power from birth. You cited a couple of prophets but you also left some out. Moses was not impowered from birth, neither was Aaron. The two witnesses are ium powered 1,260 days...before that they have not the power of a prophet. Just read Revelation Chapter 11.

With that said... I leave you with this... Did I say I am not one of the two witnesses, Did I say I am one of the two witnesses? in both instances the answer is the same... no. Do I teach them? - yes I do. Was I instructed as a teacher? yup. By God? yup. What? you or others don't like that? - tough
You or others don't think i have the necessary skills and so.. I am not qualified to teach tme.. - again..tough...God thinks I do... take it up with him. If..by any chance my skills need improving.. well guess what.. .it is one of the reasons I am in this forum.

As far as the blowhards... in that I agree with you. To dismiss the possibility of me being a blowhard or the two witnesses being fake... I offered the opportunity of a test for discovery... Blowhards would not do that lest a test be given. Here all seem unable to provide a proper test.... although I said I would help in the development of a proper test. However If I was was to develop the test (which it just is not necessary, for I KNOW who they are) then people could claim the test was skewed becasue I developed it.

A blowhard would make his claims and run... I am runnning nowhere... I remain. Am I up for a challenge? yup Do i consider anyone or group able to defeat be in a battle of discovery in this challenge... not a chance. Like I stated I would even assist in the development of a proper test.

Sorry.... but as a troll, blowhard, or someone trying to "gain followers" I just don't qualify... for I am not here for my gian except in furthering my Revelation knowledge. I also have been addressing those blowhards making wild accussations they can not provide proof. I have been testing them and right and left they fail. Pay attention to the claims of the blowhards and they reveal themselves as just that. Try to put a chink in my armor.. and all I can say is...good luck with that., as my armor don't chink. I am not afraid to admit an error, if or when I do err and that ensures the strength of my armor. So I challenge you... bring on a proper test.


God Bless - Jesus is Lord.
 

ENOCH2010

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terry what exactly are you teaching the 2 witnesses? It would seem to me that the 2 Witnesses will be doing the teaching.
 

tgwprophet

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I have added more information to this post since it's first listing, so please re-read.

Enoch ...What am I teaching them? Yes I am, Does one think John the Baptist did not learn from others as well as from God and himself? Was it Daniel or David that used other prophets? Did not some prophets use ministers? The teachings I give are connecting today's understanding with ancient understandings. And, I am learning too, through this forum, through the news media, through God's Word through teachings God and Jesus show me, through visions, Will the two witnesses give credits to a third...a teacher? Nope - gp figure how that is just, but it is just. The two witnesses will be teaching, yet first they must learn and even then, they will be continuing to learn, even during their time of power. Do you think God gave his Word but the prophets did not need to learn it?

Do you require some examples? If so... OK I will give some easy ones... Cliche's have jus about replaced wisdom in todays understanding, to the point that they are even used in the courts. Most cliche's are simply that and do not reflect wisdom

Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country - JFK (not vebatium?)
I find it strange people hold these words as wisdom.
Of course what is meant is ask not what your "government" can do for you... In this country the foundation is... WE the PEOPLE - not... WE the Government. A government IS an Insurance Company... designed to ensure Justice for ALL... BUT USA has meted out insurance responsiblities to the private sector and denied the responsibility that IS a government. IT - the USA governmnet has went so far as becomming the same s a crack head addicted to dope - the difference being this governmnet is addiced to MONEY and has denied responsibility for which it is required. We no longer need a government but in its stead a more defined and empowered insurance company. Some try to seclude the responsibilities of this government's duties to just protecting our borders.. but our \borders are not being protected. This current Governmnet is one seeking only revenue and to infect other countries with its own ideals- right or wrong. Law now prevails over Justice!

Friends don't use friends...
If your friends use you, they are not your friends that are simply using you.
Friends DO use friends it is what friends are for. One should not allow a friend to ABUSE you. Oh, your going to say what? You understood this already - you and others like you simply always used the wrong words???

Spirit Covenant wrote.... He's just blowing more hot air...
But "he" ( SC ) cannot prove ME wrong? So why did he say that in the first place? Because HE thinks HE can prove ME wrong by the use of denial with absolutley zero proof, and that validates him??? Please SC if you are going to come to the plate, at least bring a bat!

Among other things I also desmiss paradoxes... especially those used by atheists and other Godless thinkers.
Like: Satan took Jesus to an exceeding high mountain and told Jesus he could rule over all he could see if Jesus would only bow to Satan. This was and is used to dismiss Jesus because the world is not flat and therefore Jesus could not have seen the entire world. This one is funny as who would think Satan was presenting Jesus reign over the entire world, or even half of the world? Yet Atheists use this to dis-prove God.... crazy. One need only understand that Satan was not offering the entire world or even half of the world to dismiss this dilema.

Then there is such things as... Satan speeds up as man's technology and power speeds up... Satan has never slowed down and now that he has the power to fulfill all the prophecies, who in their right mind would think he is going to go take a nap for a thousand years or a hundred years? Yet some churcheshave arrived at this conclusion because of the bad past experiences it has had when that church or another church attemted to link endtime prophecy with occurances in past centuries. Now, in as much as many of these understandings are not difficult is 'get" they still must be presented, considered and learned as well as some presented, considered and dismissed.

And more... our prisons are over-crowded with inmates who tried to rob 100k or less at gun point while our political houses are over-flowing with politicians bilking billions.... ( serve two years get a life-time pension...lol ) but not a gun point you say? try stopping them and see their arsenol. These robberies cost even more lives, just not normally from gun shot wounds, because the American people KNOW they will get shot, imprisoned or more, if they attempt to stop it. Police do NOT wear guns for OUR protection, but for THEIR protection. Being a cop is NOT the most hazardous occupation! The last time I checked, England's normal level police did not carry guns. This government attempts to destroy nearly every constitutional right Americans have that it may possess total control. The news readily obscurs and skews facts concerning this government because the news gets 90% of their intel from the governmnet. sothough it is claimed that news companies are not controlled by the governent... what would happen to a news company if the government stopped providing that company with news?

Consider Hospice care ( not home Hospice ) these facilities are designed to faciliate the death of a person. A Doctor friend of mine's dad was entered into Hospice. He couldnot drink nor eat. My friend asked an IV be put in that would prodide him liquids as his dad was dehydrating. He was told it needed a doctor's order. He said he was a doctor and ordered it. HE WAS DENIED... citing that he had signed a consent form during admission and so his order was denied. His dad died in a Hospice Care Center of dehydration... Jack Kavorkian should have seen this and attacked the government for putting him in prison. Hospice had killed my friend's dad by denying his ordinary yet mandatory liquids. A slow and tormented death, at least Jack was humane.
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Spirit Covenant.... Blowing hot air? I cannot say that I blame you for that remark as there is so many doing just that and at the same time spewing wild accuassions, but sometime...someone will NOT be doing that... and that someone is me...sorry. Remaining skepticle is quite alright by me...for now. Testing the two witnesses is a challenge I have presented, all that is necessary is to come up with a valid test, and I will reveal them. So, your lacking te understanding of providing a valid test is a reason to call me a blow hard? lol. Could I test them? Yeah, but I have no need of testing them. Allow me to redifine that... I have ZERO need of Testing them. period and a test by me would not be a valid test anyway.

My challenge remains... bring on a proper test for the two witnesses and I will reveal them. Do not bring on a valid test prior to thier time of power and their identity will remain hidden until their time of power. Bring on a valid test AFTER theior time starts and it will not matter to them if they take that test or not. OH, yeah and remember this... These who claim to be one of the two witnesses, but are not... do not allow themselves to be tested - go figure. My air is a cool breeze.

Maybe for a while I should focus all my attention on the two witnesses if that would help the discovery of a proper test. Thus far I am usually bombarded with Denial. No evidence, no proof, no wisdom... just denial. Somewhere, Sometime, Somehow Someone will present the two witnesses. Prophecy tells us they will NOT be accepted, in fact the world will rejoyce at their deaths. So I do not expect anyone here to actually believe me when I tell you I do know them. My writings are quite different than the writings of others making such a claim as those others do not want to hear any denial, do not want to be tested, and do not stick around after they are being offered any proof evidence or wisdom contrary to their claims. On the other hand, several people have tried to offer a "test" and I only dis-closed information showing why it was not a proper test. I have embraced the denial as I expected it to be presented even before I ever offered the claim. Naturally I have been a bit harsh when redicilous tests has been presented, but dang... I am human and I do expect some wisdom to be show in any test presented. If anyone had actually read all my posts until they understood the depth orf what I revealed they would also have found clues to what my actual claims encompass

Let us examine some of them... while realizing the more I define them - the easier it should be to prove I am in error. however the more i define them and errors cannot befound the more creedance is instilled. Denial w/o proof is always dis-missed as it should be. Speculation is not proof, hence trying to define them by speculation of their origin because it "seems" to be right is not proof, but may be considered wisdom - right or wrong. My decissions to address possible ( even if not feasible ) rebutts DOES give validity to my claims- an aspect being continually over-looked.

I teach them, I will not receive and do not need accreditations for teaching them. There may be some credits for teaching ( yet I don't care and God knows why ) but that information is kinda a secret.

I, personally, have zero need to test them...
There was given unto one of them to choose the other from a list of two. That one being the leader, though he wishes the other to walk with him, not follow him - And God is providing the path that this "other" is constantly gaining that ground of equality. And there is reason for this, golly, I guess many of you thought this did not have a need for Salvation, Grace, Growth - both spiritually and secularly, Harmony - like they would not have independant thought, and more???

They are Gentiles... If they were Jewish and attacking the world but, not attacking God's Chosen people.. the Jews would recognize them and accept them. Acceptance means the 10th of the city would not be destroyed. If the two witnesses attacked the Jews, then a 10th of the city would not need to be destroyed.

They are American Citizens... Which langage is best known throughoutthe world? Oh you expected them to be multi-lingual? Knowing all languages? Would that not assist in them being recognized while if they were mon-lingual would that not help hide their identity? --- especially if they could not speak Hebrew, Greek, Yitish (does that mean Jewish?), - both ancent and current? And - so.. what if they cannot now do these things but when their tiome starts they are given language understanding gifts?

They are NOT the Old and New Testaments... I am not entirely sure of this as they will kind of be a unified collection of ideals expressed in both the New testament and the Old testament, but will really be of the following testament. Example, In the new Testament it says turn the other cheek, but htye will be doing eye for an eye. In the Old Testament it has burnt offerrings but they instead accerpt Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. But actual Old and New testament..nope.

They are not two Jewish Churches...
If any church they would be two Christian Churches. And I expect them Not to be considered nor affliilated with two Christian Churches until after Armageddon's smoke clears. Why not 2 Jewish Churches - they are not Jews. They are 2 humans, born of man and woman, concieved in marriage. They have a life now and a past then.

So you read my writings, meanings and wisdoms and conclude it is not "higher" wisdom as anyone should know it. BUT no one has said it...why is that? Easy, because it needed to be taught. When i fisrt read about Solomon's wisdom concerning the two mothers,... I thought.. that was so easy to understand and it was higer wisdom? --- yet, it was higher wisdom and no one had said it, until Solomon. Consider how many countries are Trillions of dollar in debt...and the people running those countries are considered wise??? LOL By thier standards I am completely validated.

This one is going to be lenghty....
How about another cliche' imprinted as wisdom by the USA government and probably many others as well. Upon or courts is often found the word JUSTICE... they are even called the halls of justice, but are they? What they infect people with is rarely justice but more often law. A twisted and perverted law that judges and lawyers hold above justice. We have LAWS against false advertising yet this government uses false advertising helter skelter. I called this a cliche' because it certainly is not wisdom.

Here is an example...
On cops cars all over the USA is displayed " to protect and serve " People are hit with this as though it means police are to protect and serve the people, but that is just not true. Rarely does the cops show up before the crime is committed... especially violent crimes. To post-tect and serve would be more accurate as they show up AFTER the crime, and so AFTEr someone is made a victim. So why the " to protect and serve " because the government wants CONTROL and they do not care if YOU die as long as they have CONTROL. Victims in this country often remain victims. Consider who gets the money first... the government, and without " debtors prisons " the victims often never get repaid damages. Oh but the government does believe in using debtor's prisons when it comes to the government being owed money. Do you think a victim should NOT be re-imbursed as much as possible for the damages they suffer BEFORE the government receives their pound o flesh?

This government is attempting gun control on a much higher level... this is another attempt to stop you from being able to defend yourself, but under the guise of removing weapons from criminals. I have heard the police force contend that protection is their job, but they nearly always show up after a victim is made a victim.. that is not pre-tection it is post-tection. Because the government first address their desire of revenue they take presidence over any valuables the criminals have, thus causing even greater victimization to the victim. This procedure is absolutely backward of what it should be.

Yeah, I know my words are unfamiluar.. but you should understand the concept easily. Zimmerman (spellig?) shot his attacker and is on trial for it. Could this government prove where that atrtack would have stopped had Z not had a gun? NOPE... Z could have been the one dead. This is righteous? --- nope this is the opposite of righteous.

A very close friend of mine however was not so lucky...he had no gun and was nearly beaten to death by a gang-banger... Google... Pactrick Joesph O'lynn and read about it. He will never be able to work again. Spend months blind. Had to re-learn to walk. Will lose most of the things he spent his life building, like his house, retirement, and such. Where is the governmnet that was to protect? - they were not there, where was the " serve "? they serve only themsleves. Where did compensation go? the government took their share first... leaving zero for PJ... naturally.

If the governmnet put " To serve and assist after one is victimized " on the cop cars then any anti-self defense abilities of Americans by this government would be moot... AS IT SHOULD BE. This government claiming protection is propaganda and a fallacy. I love my country but hate this government, especially as it stampedes head-on toward socialism and a nazi-style government. AND....I do understand what "presence" can do to help prevent crime, but more often it only changes the crimes location.

Spirit Covenant --- Exactly how am I tooting my own horn, if I am doing what I claim? And IF by chance I am doing what I claim...is it then your considered opinion I should NOT tell anyone? You really would NOT want to know? Dang... If I had the chance to meet one or both of the Two Witnesses before their time of power.. I would surely want to... and I have. Now when you understand the Two Witnesses are REAL people... sho were BORN during this time and Raised during this time... why would you not expect them to be around somewhere? When you understand they are somewhere... Why would you want to deny yourself any chance to meet them? I simply do not understand that. ( AND you call yourself Spirit Covenant???? Why not change your name to Simple Denial - it is more appropriate? ) I placed that in red because I want you to reconsider your perspective on me and do not wish that to be taken as a verbal or written insult but rahter an insignificant thought I wish would be erased instead of becoming stronger.

Now Just Imagine... how many people on this planet would want to meet these two witnesses and would not want to deny them, but instead deny them at every opportunity? You know the Scripture tells of the world denying them - do you really want to be included in that mass generalization? ( and it is my sincere hope that it is a generalization ) This just does not make good sense to me. Of course the only way it cannot be a generalization is if I am one of the Two Witnesses and I teach the other. For if I am not, meaning only a teacher... then it must be a generalization unless I deny them as well and I do not deny them. I do not need to test them and I do know whether or not I am just a teacher or if I am one of the witnesses. God placed me where I am.. who are you to deny it? Do YOU think YOU have the right to tell ME who I am or Who the two witnesses are. above GOD? Please stop.

So what... I tell you... that I teach them...big deal... Consider that I may be one of them.. so what.. big deal... The reality BIG DEAL is God... not me,, nor the Two Witnesses... It is not like they "earned" this...it is a GIFT from God and they are without sin and made righteous through JESUS, not by their own hand. I am allowed to teach them...because I know this, Why do you not?
BY MY WORDS... I have shown what I consider myself - it is also what their perspectives on them. Their "position" is a Gift they did not earn. Please do not think I am tryig to elevate myself by lowering myself. - Try lowering yourself to level I try to keep myself, that will elevate you. I wonder how many understand what I mean by that. Again... I did not EARN nor DESERVE the position GOD put me in.

Simply put... they are somewhere and they are being taught by someone and why not allow that to be proven instead of attacking with absolutely no proof this is an error? Remember all those making all the wild accuassions about the two witnesses, seemingly like I am doing.. those people DO NOT stand up and say "test me"... ONLY I SAY TEST ME.. or PROVIDE A PROPER TEST AND I WILL REVEAL THE TWO WITNESSES THAT THEY CAN BE TESTED.

You want me to HIDE my light that no one can see it? If I allow my light to shine... I am being as hot air.. tooting my own horn???
When or if any of you discover the truth you will know that I have certainly not done that in any arrogance, now if my writings have depicted that it is absolutely un-intentional.

One more little fact... When your wisdoms are true and I learn it and accpet its truth, I then relay this to the Witnesses and so, then You also TEACH the Two Witnesses... Exactly what does that then make YOU?

Everyone I learn from assists me when I teachthe Two Witnesses. One of the understanding I also would like to convey is that there are several people in this forum that have not addressed my claims to knowing these two witnesses other than possibliy stating they do not believe me. These people are excersizing wisdom by holding their skepticzism. I understand how difficult is it to contrive a proper test before their time of power is upon us... that is why it is a challenge. Until such a time as a proper test couild be formed the wisest thing to do is to hold one's words. This does not mean I wish to be critical of those producing easily to understand im-proper tests, other than if they really knew their test was illogical and presented it to streghten their denial. I find it extremely difficult that no one wishes to discuss methods of developing a proper test. Please if you do not believe what I say... at least put your best foot forward in discovering a proper test... If you wish to play...please bring a bat to the plate.
 

tgwprophet

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Maybe i should add this... I may have felt this same way if someone told me what I have been claiming... possibly I would have been more stern than any of you have been.. for this reason I should lighten up. I will try, so if I am too harsh let me know. But, with that said... none of what I have claimed about the Two Witnesses is false and I have yet to tell you all I know about them.

I do not understand the concept of someone wanting to claim they are one of these Witnesses unless they are... because they are not here to spread good cheer, they are not here to become champions in the eyes of men, they are not here heal the sick, comfort the tormented, or let the blind see... they are here to torment the world so harshly the world will rejoyce at their demise (albet short). Are they successful in what they try to achieve? nope. To do this just to stand beside the throne of Jesus? I think I would rather be a healer. Of course... the Two Witnesses would rather be healers to.

A False Witness would seek fortune or fame while claiming to be one of them. they would produce lies among the un-knowledgable thinking they can out-smart them. They would be lke trolls, engaging in things such as forums under a dis-guise they can readily alter, so that if they happen on making a claim of any future event and it happens, they can elevate their status and achieve that on earth, which they cannot achieve in Heaven.
t

Ok.,, let me forward this, Since no one has come up with a proper test for the Two Witnesses, how about a test for someone claiming to be one of the Two Witnesses, but is not?
 

tgwprophet

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they did? But, how did you find out they were booted?
i wondered why i did not get a responce from them. I figured their lack of truth in their claims revealed them more than their claims and their inability to addresss confrontation.
I did find some quite funny as their claims had no foundation. Yet I hoped they had the intestinal fortitude to own up to their false claims and tell us why they were making thenm, which could assist us in revealing others like them much easier.

Finally. remember I claim - and I do - know the two witnesses and I am most certainly willing as well as wanting to face any proper test to show not only my claim is true but to also make it so I can reveal the Two Witnesses. I havee offered this challenge nmany times in this forum and I will assist in any attempt to develop a proper test.