Sabbath

marksman said:

Regarding the Sabbath day which is once a week on Saturday, I will clarify a couple of things. In the old Testament you have 10 commandments that came from God and then there are 236 ordinances, which are not commandments. What passed away at the cross were the ordinances, not the commandments which if you think about it, is quite logical.

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Wrong. You cannot split the Law of Moses into commandments and ordinances. The law is one and indivisible. Breaking on part of the Law breaks all of the Law.

“whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.” (Jas 2:10).
“Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.” (Gal 3:10)

The whole Law, 10 Commandments included, were abolished at the cross. Scripture is very clear on this.

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, (Eph 2:14-15)

“…having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)

The Law has been abolished.
And there are many other texts saying trhe same thing.

Colossians then goes on to say:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath." (Col 2:16)

marksman said:

If you say, we don't have to keep the Sabbath (the fourth commandment) because Jesus did away with them at the cross, you have to say then that it is OK to murder, it is OK to covet, it is OK to commit adultery. Nowhere does the scripture suggest that commandment 4 was done away with on the cross but the other nine weren't.

If you do away with number four, you have to do away with the other nine.

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God's moral laws transcend time and covenants. The Ten Commandments are an implementation (or codification) of God’s moral laws for the Jews (or most of them are). God’s moral laws are also found elsewhere in the Mosaic Law, outside of the Ten Commandments (e.g. fornication and fraud).

When the Law of Moses was abolished so was that implementation of God’s moral laws. But not the moral laws themselves.

Murder and adultery (for example) were condemned well before the Ten Commandments.

However parts of the Ten Commandments are not moral laws.

Sabbath keeping is not a moral issue. It was very important for the Jews because it was a sign of their Covenant. It is not a sign for us and not relevant to us.

marksman said:

Regards to the church changing the Sabbath to Sunday there is no indication in the New Testament that this happened for one very simple reason. The New Testament Church was a Jewish church. They were seen as a branch of Judaism which is not surprising as they still obeyed the law and went to the synagogue on Saturday and it was also evident when the Jewish church tried to make gentile believers become Jews first.

In NT days, people worked SIX days a week. The day they didn't work was the Sabbath which was sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It would have been impossible for the NT church to meet on Sunday because everyone was at work and there was no meeting in the synagogue on Sunday.

The Roman Catholic church changed it from Saturday to Sunday because it wanted to be seen as a separate entity from the Jewish faith. God did not change it or instruct it.

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The Catholic Church has not changed the Sabbath to Sunday. The Sabbath is still Saturday.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week

marksman said:

In addition the pagan religions met on Sunday (the day of the sun) and they wanted to attract more of them into the church and away from their pagan religion so they considered their best bet was to meet on the day of the sun as well.

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A popular myth but untrue

Wrong. You cannot split the Law of Moses into commandments and ordinances. The law is one and indivisible. Breaking on part of the Law breaks all of the Law.

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I am very conversant with the arguments you have put forward and have taken the time to investigate this subject in depth, bearing in mind I have a theological degree from an English Bible College and a minor in theology from University.

I have not attempted to split the Law of Moses into commandments and ordinances. I have differentiated between the Law of God (10 commandments) and the law and ordinances of Moses.

Moses was not the author of the 10 commandments. He was given them by God directly so they cannot be talked of in the same terms as those instructions regarding things like sacrifices.

Exo_18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shall show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

Lev_18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.

Lev_18:4 Ye shall do my judgements, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.

Num_9:12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.

NOTE: Here the word ordinances in Hebrew is choq which means an enactment and are not related to the 10 commandments.

Lev_6:14 And this is the law of the meat offering: the sons of Aaron shall offer it before the LORD, before the altar.

Lev_6:25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.

Lev_7:1 Likewise this is the law of the trespass offering: it is most holy.

Lev_7:7 As the sin offering is, so is the trespass offering: there is one law for them: the priest that maketh atonement therewith shall have it.

Lev_7:11 And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which he shall offer unto the LORD.

Lev_7:37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;

NOTE: The law here is the Hebrew word torah torah. Note they all refer to things not in the 10 commandments.

Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

NOTE: covenant means compact (Hebrew bnyth). It refers to the 10 commandments (Hebrew dabor) meaning a word, matter or cause.

Usually when a different word is used it indicates a different subject. there are ordinances and laws that have nothing to do with the 10 commandments and the Hebrew word for commandments is quite different to all the others, suggesting that we have two different subject matters.

​The differentiation seems to be that one is given by god and the others by Moses.

In the context of the 10 commandments God says this Exodus 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The word commandments here means a command human or divine and it is used only in relation to the 10 commandments suggesting the divine origins of the 10 commandments.

marksman said:

I am very conversant with the arguments you have put forward and have taken the time to investigate this subject in depth, bearing in mind I have a theological degree from an English Bible College and a minor in theology from University.

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If they didn't tell you Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, you should demand a refund for your tuition.

marksman said:

I am very conversant with the arguments you have put forward and have taken the time to investigate this subject in depth, bearing in mind I have a theological degree from an English Bible College and a minor in theology from University.

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Gosh, am I supposed to be impressed by that?

marksman said:

I have not attempted to split the Law of Moses into commandments and ordinances. I have differentiated between the Law of God (10 commandments) and the law and ordinances of Moses.

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What ordinances of Moses.

If you actually read the scriptures you would see that they are given by God, not invented by Moses.

I quoted from Lev 19. Read that:

“And the Lord said to Moses…”, (vs 1) and many instructions follow including the words “I am the Lord” at least 12 times. Chapters 20, 21, 22, 23, 23 continue in the same way.

They are all God’s laws, statutes and ordinances.

Or if we look at Exodus, God continues after giving the Ten Commandments with more laws in chapter 21, 22, 23. These are all God’s laws. In chapter 24 the people ratify all the laws that God had given them.

marksman said:

Moses was not the author of the 10 commandments. He was given them by God directly so they cannot be talked of in the same terms as those instructions regarding things like sacrifices.

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All the instructions came from God

marksman said:

Exo_18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shall show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

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Have you read the whole passage?

Moses is with his father-in-law (Jethro) in the desert giving judgement.

Jethro asks Moses what he is doing (vs 14)
Moses replies:
And Moses said to his father-in-law, "Because the people come to me to inquire of God; 16 when they have a dispute, they come to me and I decide between a man and his neighbour, and I make them know the statutes of God and his decisions.".(vs 15-16)

Note: Moses is giving them God’s statutes and decisions not his own.

Jethro tells Moses he is not acting wisely because it is too much for him alone. Must be their representative before God (vs 17-19).
Then we come to vs 20 and remember it is Jethro speaking to Moses
“And thou [Moses] shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shall show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do."

The ordinances and laws that Moses must teach the people are God’s laws and ordinances not Moses own.


You say you are familiar with this argument. Is that why you ignored the points I made?

The whole Law, 10 Commandments included, were abolished at the cross. Scripture is very clear on this.

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, (Eph 2:14-15)

“…having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)

The Law has been abolished.
And there are many other texts saying trhe same thing.

Colossians then goes on to say:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath." (Col 2:16)


Then Old Covenant is abolished. We have a New Covenant with new laws that go with them.
The Old Testament written law has been replaced by the New Testament law written not in ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are hearts of flesh. (2 Cor 3:3).

The Book of Hebrews makes this replacement of the Old Covenant by the New very clear.
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)

When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)

When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)

He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)

Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.

Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.

On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure."
Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master."
Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

more here

Gosh, am I supposed to be impressed by that

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I don't consider sarcasm a christian virtue so I will ignore your remark.

The whole Law, 10 Commandments included, were abolished at the cross. Scripture is very clear on this

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Yes so I have been told before, but having read both sides of the argument, I am not convinced, especially as it means I can murder if I want to.

The Law has been abolished. And there are many other texts saying trhe same thing.

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And I believe that there are several texts that suggest otherwise, so we shall have to differ.

Then Old Covenant is abolished. We have a New Covenant with new laws that go with them

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Can't disagree with that. Just that I believe that the 10 commandments are still applicable but applied from a different perspective. Under the old it is a case of "Thou shalt not or else..." which is a threat. Under the new, the threat becomes a promise...thou shalt not because the price of sin has been paid.

Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church. etc.

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First: This can be interpreted as one or first. Week: Sabbaton…the Sabbath. Same word as the first Sabbath in the verse.
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marksman said:

I don't consider sarcasm a christian virtue so I will ignore your remark.

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But you haven’t ignored it have you?

You have chosen to use it as an opportunity to criticise me.

marksman said:

Yes so I have been told before, but having read both sides of the argument, I am not convinced, especially as it means I can murder if I want to.

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I’m familiar with that argument and I have already answered it in post #41

marksman said:

And I believe that there are several texts that suggest otherwise, so we shall have to differ.

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But whereas I gave you some texts as evidence you have given none. Is that because there are none?

marksman said:

Can't disagree with that. Just that I believe that the 10 commandments are still applicable but applied from a different perspective. Under the old it is a case of "Thou shalt not or else..." which is a threat. Under the new, the threat becomes a promise...thou shalt not because the price of sin has been paid.

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Some of the Ten Commandments are still applicable because they are part of the eternal Law. They can be found in the NT. For example murder in 1Jn 3:15 & Mt 5:21-22; adultery in Heb 13:4 & Mt 5:27-28. There is no command in the NT to keep the Saturday Sabbath.

Mungo said:

But you haven’t ignored it have you?

You have chosen to use it as an opportunity to criticise me.




I’m familiar with that argument and I have already answered it in post #41




But whereas I gave you some texts as evidence you have given none. Is that because there are none?




Some of the Ten Commandments are still applicable because they are part of the eternal Law. They can be found in the NT. For example murder in 1Jn 3:15 & Mt 5:21-22; adultery in Heb 13:4 & Mt 5:27-28. There is no command in the NT to keep the Saturday Sabbath.

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Yes there is. Please look at Hebrews 4:4,8 and 9. Then research the meaning of the word rest in 4:9, to find out whatthat word actualy is. Then look at 4:8 and determine if Jesus ever spoke of, or kept Sabbath any other day then the 7th day. Notice the word day in that sentence. And to clarify, in Hebrews 4:4 God spoke according to the 7th Day.

Raeneske said:

Yes there is. Please look at Hebrews 4:4,8 and 9. Then research the meaning of the word rest in 4:9, to find out whatthat word actualy is. Then look at 4:8 and determine if Jesus ever spoke of, or kept Sabbath any other day then the 7th day. Notice the word day in that sentence. And to clarify, in Hebrews 4:4 God spoke according to the 7th Day.

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Jesus was Jew and kept, and fulfilled, the Jewish Law. We are not Jews. We are under the New Covenant not the Old Covenant.

The Old Testament written law has been replaced by the New Testament law "written not in ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are hearts of flesh." (2 Cor 3:3).

Nowhere in the NT are we instructed to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

“But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, ‘It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.’" (Acts 15:5).
The decision was to do neither so clearly they did not ask anyone to continue to observe the Sabbath. And they didn't.

Paul says “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17). Paul did not expect anyone to keep the Sabbath or be judged for not keeping it. It was a shadow of what was to come in Christ

“Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honour of the Lord.” (Rom 14:4-6).
If Sabbath keeping was mandatory this is surely a place for Paul to mention it.

In the whole of Hebrews the word Sabbath appears just once, in Heb 4:9. And it does not say the Sabbath day but Sabbath rest. Indeed Hebrews 4:1-11 is about rest, about entering into God’s rest.

Now remember what Paul says in Col 2:17 – “the substance belongs to Christ”.

“Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Mt 11:28-29).
The Sabbath rest is fulfilled in Christ. This is why Jesus declared himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8).

Heb 4:1-3
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them; but the message which they heard did not benefit them, because it did not meet with faith in the hearers.
3. For we who have believed enter that rest,”

We enter that rest (God’s rest) by faith (in Christ) not by Sabbath keeping. Those who fail to enter his rest fail because of lack of faith/disobedience (Heb 3:19, 4:6)

Mungo said:

Jesus was Jew and kept, and fulfilled, the Jewish Law. We are not Jews. We are under the New Covenant not the Old Covenant.

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The first Jew was about 2500 years in the future when this was stated…

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Not a Jew in sight and Abimelech (a gentile king) knew that adultery was sin…

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Death reigned from Adam to Moses?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Sin lies at the door?

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Plainly, sin was recognized as the transgression of the law and it existed from Adam to Moses. Now, Paul plainly says that without law there is no sin.

Jewish law?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

And then continued to give the Ten Commandments.

By the way , it seems apparent you do not know what the New Covenant is…

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

A direct quote from…

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The Old Testament written law has been replaced by the New Testament law "written not in ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are hearts of flesh." (2 Cor 3:3).

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Hmmm, our Lord and Savior and Author of the New Covenant says…

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And just to make sure which law He is speaking of…

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Yes but which Commandments? (Same thing the wealthy young man asked)

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Nowhere in the NT are we instructed to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

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Two problems with this statement…

1.) The Sabbath is not Jewish…

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

“But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, ‘It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.’" (Acts 15:5).
The decision was to do neither so clearly they did not ask anyone to continue to observe the Sabbath. And they didn't.

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There is a difference between circumcision, the Law of Moses and the Law of God. I will address this difference a little further down.

Paul says “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17).

Paul did not expect anyone to keep the Sabbath or be judged for not keeping it. It was a shadow of what was to come in Christ

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Paul did expect them to keep it, He said not to let anyone judge you for KEEPING it. This was written 20 some years after the death, burial and crucifixion of Christ and Paul plainly says it is a shadow of something YET (that means future) to come.

“Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honour of the Lord.” (Rom 14:4-6).

If Sabbath keeping was mandatory this is surely a place for Paul to mention it.

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You assume Xmas is to be kept, (it is not, but that is a completely different thread) so do you have to restate it every year? The Sabbath was never a question and very little is written about it in the New Testament. The Sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments. Now the subject of circumcision, which is NOT one of the Commandments, required a church conference and James (the head of the New Testament church) had to write a decree concerning it. If the Sabbath was changed or abolished, why are the Apostles completely silent on the subject?

Furthermore, Rom 14 is not about the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. What is the subject?

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Judging one another for vegetarianism. What about observing the day?

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Read verse 6, it is about setting aside a day of fasting. Notice that regarding the day is connected with eating or not eating. Notice a little further down the chapter…

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Notice the word for meat in verse 20 is…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
bro'-mah
From the base of G977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonial) articles allowed or forbiden by the Jewish law: - meat, victuals.

Food. Not meat but any food.

In the whole of Hebrews the word Sabbath appears just once, in Heb 4:9. And it does not say the Sabbath day but Sabbath rest. Indeed Hebrews 4:1-11 is about rest, about entering into God’s rest.

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2.) Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

What is the word for rest here? It is different and the only time it is used in Bible, the word is G4520: Sabbatismos and means “a keeping of the Sabbath”. It is derived from G4521

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

And in every case is used as the Sabbath day, not some nebulous rest.

Now remember what Paul says in Col 2:17 – “the substance belongs to Christ”.

“Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Mt 11:28-29).
The Sabbath rest is fulfilled in Christ. This is why Jesus declared himself the Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8).

Heb 4:1-3
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them; but the message which they heard did not benefit them, because it did not meet with faith in the hearers.
3. For we who have believed enter that rest,”

We enter that rest (God’s rest) by faith (in Christ) not by Sabbath keeping. Those who fail to enter his rest fail because of lack of faith/disobedience (Heb 3:19, 4:6)

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The Sabbath day, points to, is a shadow of the 1000 year reign of Christ we call the Millenium. The week is a shadow of the 7000 year plan of God, 6000 years for man to do His works and then a Millenium of rest brought about by Christ and His Kingdom. The substance of the Sabbath is the Millenial rest of Christ and the Sabbath is the weekly shadow of the things YET to come…

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Great post John
And to the times past

Acts 17:30-31
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.

John_8:32 said:

The first Jew was about 2500 years in the future when this was stated…

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

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God rested on THAT seventh day.
It doesn’t say God rested every 7[sup]th[/sup] day.
Nor does it say he instructed mankind to rest on the 7[sup]th[/sup] day.
Nor does it say anyone rested on the seventh day between Adam and Moses.
There is no mention of the Sabbath day until Moses.

That is because God did not introduce the Sabbath for mankind until Moses and that only for the Jews. It was introduced to be a sign of the Sinai Covenant.
‘The Lord said to Moses, “Say to the people of Israel, 'You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.…...
Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel“‘(Ex 31:12-13, 16-17).

God made a series of Covenant with mankind. Each Covenant has a sign as a reminder of the covenant.

Each Covenant sign was visible but it pointed to a future spiritual reality, ultimately in heaven.

With the covenant with Noah the sign was a rainbow in the clouds. It pointed to the glory of God (see Ez 1:28) that one day we will see in heaven.
I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God almighty and the Lamb. The city had no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb. (Rev 21:22-23)

With the covenant with Abraham the sign was physical circumcision. It pointed to the future circumcision of the heart (Rom 2:28-29; Col 2:11) as prophesied:
The Lord, your God, will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, that you may love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and all your soul, and so may live. (Deut 30:6)

With the Covenant with Moses the sign was the Sabbath rest. It pointed to a future spiritual rest in Christ (“Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest.” Mt 11:28), but also to a greater rest from labour and burdens in heaven.

With New Covenant the sign is the communion meal. It points to the wedding feast of the Lamb:
“Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” (Rev 19:9)

Hebrews tells us the things in the OT are only shadows of what was to come (see Heb 8:5; 10:1).
As Paul said, “Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.” (Col 2:16-17). They are shadows because the ultimate fulfilment is in heaven.

The Sabbath rest is nothing to do with any 7,000 years or 1,000 years reign, which is not to be taken literally. It is the rest in Christ in this life and the fulfilment of God’s rest in heaven

John_8:32 said:

Not a Jew in sight and Abimelech (a gentile king) knew that adultery was sin…

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Death reigned from Adam to Moses?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Sin lies at the door?

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Plainly, sin was recognized as the transgression of the law and it existed from Adam to Moses. Now, Paul plainly says that without law there is no sin.

Jewish law?

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As I have already explained God’s moral laws transcend time. Murder was a sin from the beginning when Cain slew Abel. So was adultery.

But the Sabbath is not a moral law. It was introduced into the Ten Commandments as a sign (reminder) of the Covenant. That Covenant is abolished.

With the Covenant with Noah the sign was a rainbow.
God said to Noah and to his sons with him: “See, I am now establishing my covenant with you and your descendants after you……….
God added: “This is the sign that I am giving for all ages to come, of the covenant between me and you and every living creature with you: I set my bow in the clouds to serve as a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. …..
As the bow appears in the clouds, I will see it and recall the everlasting covenant that I have established between God and all living beings—all mortal creatures that are on earth.” God told Noah: “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all mortal creatures that are on earth.”
(Gen 9:8-9,12-13,16-17).

God could make the bow in the sky to remind men of this Covenant whenever he wanted to.

God made a covenant with Abraham for him and all his descendants through Isaac with circumcision as the sign.
When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram, and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.……..
So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant..
(Gen 17:1-2,11,13)

Thus being in the flesh, the sign of the Covenant was a visible daily reminder to all (male) Jews.

However a day of rest is not a visible reminder. It can be forgotten. So God put it in the Ten Commandments to indicate how important it was; to remind them of the Covenant.

The Covenant at Sinai (Mosaic Covenant) was an extension of the Covenant with Abraham. It was only for the Jews.

The sign of the Abrahamic Covenant was dispensed with in Acts 15. Why would we want to keep the sign of the Covenant with Moses? We have our own Coveva

God very specifically gave the sabbath to the Jews:
“Take care to keep holy the sabbath day as the Lord, your God, commanded you….. For remember that you too were once slaves in Egypt, and the Lord, your God, brought you from there with his strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the Lord, your God, has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.” (Dt 5:12,15)

It was a reminder of his saving them from the slavery of Egypt. “That is why the Lord, your God, has commanded you [Jews] to observe the sabbath day.”

We have a new salvation from the slavery of sin to remember, won for us by Jesus. That is why we have communion to remember him.
“Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.” (Lk 22:19-20)

…after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” (1Cor 11:24-25).

In memory [remembrance] of me indicates it is the sign of the covenant, to remind us of the covenant, to remind us of the salvation he brought us.
.

Mungo said:

Wrong. You cannot split the Law of Moses into commandments and ordinances. The law is one and indivisible. Breaking on part of the Law breaks all of the Law.

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I would respectfully disagree with this erroneous conclusion...

The Law of God and the law of Moses, are they two different entities or the same law?

Let’s look at this and understand…

Who wrote the Law of God?

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deu 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

Who wrote the law of Moses?

Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

What was the Law of God written on?

Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deu 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

What was the law of Moses written on?

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Where was the Law of God kept?

Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

Where was the law of Moses kept?

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Either in a pocket on the outside of the Ark or on the Table the Ark sat on. At any rate, not inside the Ark like the Ten Commandments written on tables of stone.

How were the Ten Commandments delivered?

Deu 4:36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Notice that God spoke the Ten Commandments and “added no more”, yet we read that…

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deu 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

So God commanded Moses to teach the people statutes and judgements, yet He says He added no more to the Ten Commandments. A contradiction? No, the Law of God is separate from the law of Moses.

2Ki 21:8 Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.

They are two different entities and Daniel reiterates this…

Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

There is Thy Law and the law of Moses mentioned here with the conjunction “and”. Now if I have one AND another, how many do I have? I have two.

God wrote the Ten Commandments on stone and they were put inside the Ark…

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deu 10:3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
Deu 10:5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

Moses wrote the law of Moses in a book and it was put in a pocket on the side of the Ark…

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Calling the Ten Commandments the law of Moses to try to discredit them is at the very least a grave error. You can call them a space shuttle if you want, but they are the Ten Commandments, written in stone by the finger of God and the fourth one says…

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You are making a false distinction between the Laws of God and the Laws of Moses. All the Laws came from God whether Moses wrote them down or not.

There are many sins that are not in the Ten Commandments. Are they not sins because they are not in the Ten Commandments?

Are they sins because they go against man’s law (Moses) or because they break God’s law?

“Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.” (Gal 3:10).

The Law of Moses was given by God just as much as the Ten Commandments.
He (Ezra] was a scribe skilled in the law of Moses which the Lord the God of Israel had given (Ezra 7:6).

God’s law was given by Moses
….enter into a curse and an oath to walk in God's law which was given by Moses the servant of God (Neh 10:29).

The book of the was just as much God’s law as the 10 Commandments
“Hilkiah the priest found the book of the law of the Lord given through Moses.” (1Chr 34:14)


Jesus said
“You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honour your father and mother.” (Mk 10:19)
Do not defraud is not one of the Ten Commandments. It comes from Lev 19:13.

Jesus also said
You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition! For Moses said, 'Honour your father and your mother’ (Mk 7:9-10)
Was 'Honour your father and your mother ‘Moses Law’ or the Ten Commandments?

Jesus made no distinction between the ‘Law of Moses’ and the Ten Commandments

David’s final instruction to Solomon was:
"I am about to go the way of all the earth. Be strong, and show yourself a man, and keep the charge of the Lord your God, walking in his ways and keeping his statutes, his commandments, his ordinances, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses” (1Kg 2:3)
He didn’t add and the Ten Commandments. The ‘Law of Moses’ included the Ten Commandments

“……if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law” (Dt. 30:10)
Again no mention of the Ten Commandments seperately . They were all included in the ‘book of the law’

The Ten Commandments were written in the ‘Book of the Law’ in Ex 20 and Deut 5. It was all the Law.

However the Jews did consider the Ten Commandments represented the covenant - the covenant that is now obsolete:
In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had…… the tables of the covenant (Heb 8:13, 9:1,4)

Then old covenant has gone, We are part of the new covenant in the blood of Christ.

Mungo, I'm going to have to say there is a problem with the conclusions you are drawing, because the Bible does in fact make the disctinction between both laws many times, as posted previously. Yes, it just so happened that Jesus said "Defraud not" as well, as other 10 Commandments. This however never implies that he never made a distinction, because that is very contrary to the Word of God.

James 1:22,25 - But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:11,12 - For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Here we are told to be doers of the word, and not only hearers, deceiving ourselves. If we look at the perfect law of liberty, and continue therein, we shall be blessed. Before us is set a blessing. But what is the law of liberty? It just so happens to be the 10 commandments. So if you teach do not commit adultery and do not kill, yet you do not commit adultery and yet kill, you are a transgressor of the law. James is very clearly refering to the 10 commandments here. So, in regards to the 10 commandments, what does James have to say about it?

James 2:10 - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

There are many keepers of 9 commandments, but refuse to keep number 4 upon learning about it. James was very clear, keep one, keep them all. Break one, break them all. Number 4 is no different, although the Christian world has forgotten about it.

Romans 2:13 - (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This cannot possibly be refering to the law of Moses, with slaying of the animals. Paul makes that distinction, by even pointing out hearers of the law are not just, but only doers of the law.

Mark 12:30-31 - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Some say this is the law. But if we use Isaiah 28:10, we know that if we follow precept upon precept, we find out that this is taught in another place within the Word of God.

Romans 13:9-11 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love fulfills the law, yes. But do you realize, that the commandments are "briefly comprehended" as love thy neighbor as thyself? Briefly comprehended simply means summary, a quick saying. It's like when you do a paper. The Summary isn't the answer. The summary points BACK to the 10 Commandments, the same way Paul does in this passage.

Now, we can also see that the Validity of the Sabbath is also assumed in the NT. Assumed meaning, no one would have thought that it ended at the cross.

Hebrews 4:4,8,9 - For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Did Jesus ever speak of Sabbath keeping? Yes, he did, in many disputes with the Pharisees, and even prophecied that Christians should pray so that they will not have to flee on the Sabbath Day. Did he ever speak of any other day besides the Saturday Sabbath when contending with the Pharisees? No. So it is plain, there still remains a rest to the people of God. And if you aren't 100% sure, you can check the Strong's Concordance, and what "rest" was in Hebrews 4:9, the actual greek word. The Word there is Sabbatismos, which means a keeping Sabbath.

It is very clear that Christians still have to keep the Sabbath, and that it still remains there. Is it widely known? No. Is it widely accepted? No. Does that dissolve the fact that we must keep it though? No. It is still just as much as a Commandment, as the other 9 are. Christians should be jealous for God's law, but in efforts to bury the Sabbath commandment, have arisen movements to slice the distinction between the 10 Commandments, and "The Law of Moses" and another movement which has said "We don't have to keep the law". Both are dangerous, though I think the "we don't have to keep the law" theorists are more dangerous.

The Jews imposed legalistic regulations on the Sabbath.
The Christians turned their backs wholly on the Sabbath.
Jews went too far. Christians won't go far enough.
Sabbath Desecration in the past, sabbath desecration now.

Come on brethern and sisters, time to wake up. Let's get this right BEFORE Jesus comes.

Axehead said:

Ok, Raeneske, I think I'm tracking with you. And you are tracking meticulously with the words of God in the OT. So, let me take it further for you.

How was the Sabbath observed? Exodus_16: 5-23 tells us that there was no cooking of food or preparation of food. You can’t use the microwave, you cannot boil a roast. You cannot cook your food, between sundown Friday (if that is the Sabbath) and sundown Saturday (if that is the Sabbath).

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You need to add a little more info before drawing a conclusion...

Exo 12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

You missed a very important point when studying the Bible…

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I am not convinced that is the Sabbath. But if it is, if

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that is when the 7th day is, I mean it could be Tuesday or it could be Thursday. I have no proof that what we call Saturday, today is the Sabbath. No matter, just pick a day, right? The principle is that you rest on 1 day of the week. God won't hold it against you if you rest on the wrong day, will He?

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Let's ask Uzza...

1Ch 13:9 And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled.
1Ch 13:10 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God.

How was the Ark to be transported?

Exo 25:13 And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.
Exo 25:14 And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.

Can anyone touch the Ark?

Num 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Although the sons of Kohath were to transport the Ark, even they could not touch it without dying. Did it matter to Uzza that he disobeyed, even though his intentions were good and he thought he was doing the right thing?

2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

Does it matter to God? I think Uzza would say yes it does matter.

And then Exodus_16:29, “let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

In other words they did not go and have a big church meeting on the Sabbath. They did not travel. They were to stay home and rest. Sabbath was about resting. They were commanded to stay home. No one is to go to meetings on that day. I'm just wondering how that would go over, today. Probably not too well. You know going to church meetings is a lot of work and then many are asked to work while they are at the church meetings (ministries).

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I would refer you to the previous rule about here a little and there a little…

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Convocation:

H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

A church meeting kinda fits this description, wouldn’t you say?

Exodus_20:10 – No one is to work. Not the son or daughter or the cattle. Nothing!

Exodus_23:12 – The ox and the ass are to rest also.

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You mean God expects me to take a day off from work and rest and worship Him and spend some time in prayer and study? A time for family and it is a feast day so a very nice Sabbath meal? And you call this bondage?

Exodus_35:3 – They are to kindle no fire. If you get’s cold you just stay cold.

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The Jews and Adam Clarke seem to understand this a bit differently than you do…

Exodus 35:3

Ye shall kindle no fire - The Jews understand this precept as forbidding the kindling of fire only for the purpose of doing work or dressing victuals; but to give them light and heat, they judge it lawful to light a fire on the Sabbath day, though themselves rarely kindle it-they get Christians to do this work for them. – Adam Clarke

Numbers_15:32 – Gather no firewood. They could not pick up a stick of firewood on the Sabbath.

They just had to lay down and relax on the Sabbath. They could not lift a finger to go somewhere or to build a fire or to do anything.

Isaiah_58:13 – Says they are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.

Isaiah_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

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So a day that you do not work, that you do not consume yourself with pursuing the almighty dollar but rather pursue the Almighty is a bad thing. A day that you are not consumed with yourself, but rather, a day that you think about your Heavenly Father and His ways. A day that you and your family spend away from the grind of daily living is something to avoid at all costs?

In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn’t get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

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And this is totally unscriptural and a very Pharisaical reading. Hmmm, the very ones who call others Pharisaical for keeping God’s word. The scripture nowhere states these things.

You couldn’t “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath.

And if they violated this in anyway, the penalty was death.

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And that is different from today how?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin is still death.

Any disagreement, so far Raeneske? Are you onboard with all of this?

Axehead

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I don’t think anyone is on board with the mishandling of scripture you have performed here.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

joshhuntnm said:

How do we live out Sabbath rest in the NT era?

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Christ gave us something much better.....a new convenant, which is much better than the old and which fulfilled the Jewish Sabbath.

First of all, the six day creation was linked to the Jewish Sabbath. This "six day" creation was linked to the Sabbath because the Sabbath has something to do with mankind's salvation. For in six days, God created everything and on the seventh day, He rested. God consecrated the seventh day and made it holy. And on the seventh day, the Israelites are to rest and not do work. One of the Ten Commandments that was given to Moses concerns the Sabbath Day (See Exodus 20:8-11).

Secondly, of all the Ten Commandments, it was only the Sabbath commandment that God gave a reason why the Israelites should keep it. God never gave a reason as to why we should not murder, steal, or commit adultery because the reason was already understood. However, only the Fourth Commandment, which is the Sabbath, God gave a reason as to why the Israelites should keep it holy.

Finally, the Sabbath of the Christians is not the same as the Jews. For Christians, they are no longer under the Old Covenant. They are now under the New Covenant. This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead. It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven. It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples, and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other. Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.

As Christians, we no longer belong to the Old Creation (a creation linked to the Sabbath), we belong to the New Creation (a creation linked to Christ's death and resurrection). We follow Christ who is the end of the law and the Lord of the Sabbath (Romans 10:4 and Mark 2:28, Matthew 12:8, and Luke 6:5). In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[sup] "[/sup]Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St. Ignatius of Antioch).

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,

Selene said:

Christ gave us something much better.....a new convenant, which is much better than the old and which fulfilled the Jewish Sabbath.

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Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Quoted from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hmmm, what a novel idea, writing His Laws, the Ten Commandments in our hearts and minds.

First of all, the six day creation was linked to the Jewish Sabbath. This "six day" creation was linked to the Sabbath because the Sabbath has something to do with mankind's salvation. For in six days, God created everything and on the seventh day, He rested. God consecrated the seventh day and made it holy. And on the seventh day, the Israelites are to rest and not do work. One of the Ten Commandments that was given to Moses concerns the Sabbath Day (See Exodus 20:8-11).

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Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This was 2,500 years prior to the birth of the first Jew.

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

The Sabbath of the Jews?

This was spoken by the same God who said...

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

And also inspired...

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Secondly, of all the Ten Commandments, it was only the Sabbath commandment that God gave a reason why the Israelites should keep it. God never gave a reason as to why we should not murder, steal, or commit adultery because the reason was already understood. However, only the Fourth Commandment, which is the Sabbath, God gave a reason as to why the Israelites should keep it holy.

Finally, the Sabbath of the Christians is not the same as the Jews. For Christians, they are no longer under the Old Covenant. They are now under the New Covenant. This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead. It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven. It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples, and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other. Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.

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This Sunday worship was finalized in 325 AD at the council of Nicea. The early church did as Christ instructed them...

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

How did Jesus walk? Did He keep Sunday? Why didn't He ever say anything about changing the day of worship? Because...

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Jesus plainly said He is Lord of the Sabbath.

Selene said:

This New Covenant brought fourth a new Sabbath for Christians, which is Sunday.....the Lord's Day. It was on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead.

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Actually it was not. I can count three daylight portions and three nighttime portions and they do not end up with a Sunday morning resurrection. But that is a completely different thread. Three Days and Three Nights.

It was on Sunday when Christ ascended to Heaven.

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Actually, it was on the Wavesheaf Offering...

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

It was Sunday when the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and His disciples,

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It was on the Feast of Pentecost or Firstfruits...

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

and it was on Sunday when the Apostles "broke bread" with each other.

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And Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday...

To break bread simply meant they ate a meal together.

Sunday became known as the Lord's Day.....and Sunday was linked to a NEW CREATION. It was in Christ Jesus that Christians were made into a new creation and we became a new creature in Christ's death and resurrection.[/font][/font][/color]

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Sunday only became called the Lord's Day after the Constantine and the Council of Nicea began to enforce it upon Christians. You have the fathers of the Universal Church to thank for that one.

2 Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.

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You have gotten ahead of yourself there by at least 1100 years...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

That is after the Millenium and the Great White Throne Judgment.

Selene said:

As Christians, we no longer belong to the Old Creation (a creation linked to the Sabbath), we belong to the New Creation (a creation linked to Christ's death and resurrection). We follow Christ who is the end of the law

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What is the "end" of the law?

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

Jesus Christ was the result of what living the Law of God perfectly produces - righteousness.

and the Lord of the Sabbath (Romans 10:4 and Mark 2:28, Matthew 12:8, and Luke 6:5).

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In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[sup] "[/sup]Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St. Ignatius of Antioch).

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Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,

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Well said, Mungo and Selena,

The Old Covenant was:
Instituted at Sanai
- Ex. 19:5 - “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession.”
Ratified by Sacrifice
- Ex. 24:6-8 - “Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the LORD has said; we will obey.” 8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Sealed by Circumcision
- Gen.17:13-14 - “Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
Consists of Outward Rites
- Heb. 9:1-13 - Now the first covenant had regulations for worship…external regulations applying until the time of the new order…He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.”
Designed to lead to Christ
- Gal.3:21-25 - “Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”

The New Covenant was:
Promised in Eden
- Gen. 3:15 - “And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Proclaimed to Abraham
- Gen. 12:3 - “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
Fulfilled in Christ
- Luke 1:68-79 - Read it as it’s to long to add here.
Instituted at Christ’s Death and Ratified by His Blood
- Heb. 9:12-26 and Eph. 2:13-22 - same as above
Remembered in the Lord’s Supper
- 1 Co. 11:25
Authored by God
- Eph. 2:4 - “But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.”
Caused by God’s Love
- John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Mediator = Christ
- 1 Tim. 2:5 - “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Is the Plan of Salvation
- 1 Pet. 1:10-11 - “Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.”
Messiah was born Under the Law
- Gal. 4:4-5 - “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.”
　
　
　
　
Luke 24:44-45 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures (Luke 24:44-45).”

　
　
Think not that I am come to destroy the Law and the Prophets (the Old Covenant): I am not come to DESTROY, but to FULFILL (NOT TO INSTITUTE). For verily I say unto you, Till earth and heaven pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be FULFILLED (Matt. 5:17-18; see Lk. 24:37-44-46)."

This simply means that Yahshua the Messiah had to FULFILL the Old Covenant before the New Covenant could come of effect. For example, when the Messiah was born in the city of Bethlehem, this fulfilled the prophecy of Malachi (Mal. 5:2) Does Messiah have to “keep“ being born of virgins to fulfill these prophecies? Being born of a virgin fulfilled Isaiah’s prophesy (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). Judas' betrayal of the Messiah for 30 pieces of silver fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah (Zec. 11:12-13) Does Judas have to “keep“ betraying Christ to fulfill the prophecy? These are just a few of the 40% of Old Testament prophecies concerning the Messiah.

In other words, Yahshua (who is Elohim incarnated in a physical body of the Messiah - I Tim. 3:16; Jn. 1:14) had to fulfill every jot and tittle of the Old Covenant, remove it (Heb. 10:9), die on the cross (Col. 2:14), sacrifice His blood, resurrect from the dead, and ascend to the Father, BEFORE the New Covenant could become effective. Once something has been “fulfilled”, it is finished, done, completed, over with, not to be visited again. Christ fulfilled ALL aspects of the law, even Sabbath-keeping!
　
　

　
　
　

Trekson said:

Well said, Mungo and Selena,

The Old Covenant was:
Instituted at Sanai
- Ex. 19:5 - “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession.”
Ratified by Sacrifice
- Ex. 24:6-8 - “Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the LORD has said; we will obey.” 8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Sealed by Circumcision
- Gen.17:13-14 - “Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
Consists of Outward Rites
- Heb. 9:1-13 - Now the first covenant had regulations for worship…external regulations applying until the time of the new order…He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.”
Designed to lead to Christ
- Gal.3:21-25 - “Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”

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And exactly as you say the Old Covenant was...

Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Not the Law, but the agreement that they would obey the Law but, they were not able to obey...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Finding fault with who? The people, not the Law. The problem was that Israel, without the Holy Spirit, could not obey the Law. They broke the Covenant...

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

The New Covenant was:
Promised in Eden
- Gen. 3:15 - “And I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Proclaimed to Abraham
- Gen. 12:3 - “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
Fulfilled in Christ
- Luke 1:68-79 - Read it as it’s to long to add here.
Instituted at Christ’s Death and Ratified by His Blood
- Heb. 9:12-26 and Eph. 2:13-22 - same as above
Remembered in the Lord’s Supper
- 1 Co. 11:25
Authored by God
- Eph. 2:4 - “But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.”
Caused by God’s Love
- John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Mediator = Christ
- 1 Tim. 2:5 - “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Is the Plan of Salvation
- 1 Pet. 1:10-11 - “Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.”
Messiah was born Under the Law
- Gal. 4:4-5 - “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.”
　
　
　
　
Luke 24:44-45 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures (Luke 24:44-45).”

　
　
Think not that I am come to destroy the Law and the Prophets (the Old Covenant): I am not come to DESTROY, but to FULFILL (NOT TO INSTITUTE). For verily I say unto you, Till earth and heaven pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be FULFILLED (Matt. 5:17-18; see Lk. 24:37-44-46)."

This simply means that Yahshua the Messiah had to FULFILL the Old Covenant before the New Covenant could come of effect. For example, when the Messiah was born in the city of Bethlehem, this fulfilled the prophecy of Malachi (Mal. 5:2) Does Messiah have to “keep“ being born of virgins to fulfill these prophecies? Being born of a virgin fulfilled Isaiah’s prophesy (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). Judas' betrayal of the Messiah for 30 pieces of silver fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah (Zec. 11:12-13) Does Judas have to “keep“ betraying Christ to fulfill the prophecy? These are just a few of the 40% of Old Testament prophecies concerning the Messiah.

In other words, Yahshua (who is Elohim incarnated in a physical body of the Messiah - I Tim. 3:16; Jn. 1:14) had to fulfill every jot and tittle of the Old Covenant, remove it (Heb. 10:9), die on the cross (Col. 2:14), sacrifice His blood, resurrect from the dead, and ascend to the Father, BEFORE the New Covenant could become effective. Once something has been “fulfilled”, it is finished, done, completed, over with, not to be visited again. Christ fulfilled ALL aspects of the law, even Sabbath-keeping!

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Interesting redefinition here, you are saying that to fulfill something does away with it. My employer would like for me to fulfill my purpose for employment, which is engineering projects for him. So everytime I complete or fulfill the project, it magically vanishes away and does not exist any more?

Explain how Heaven and earth have passed away please? I leave for work each morning before sunrise and I keep seeing these stars and moon up in the heavens. I also walk across my driveway to my car and guess what, the earth is still beneath my feet...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

That particular condition has not been met yet.　
　
So according to this statement of yours...

"Once something has been “fulfilled”, it is finished, done, completed, over with, not to be visited again. Christ fulfilled ALL aspects of the law, even Sabbath-keeping!"

You believe that we do not need to keep the Sabbath, because it is fulfilled. How does that work for murder, theft and adultery?