Homosexuality: Is it the way a person is born?

Foreigner said:

http://www.gaychristian.net/campolos.php

"Dr. Campolo's position on homosexuality is conservative: he believes that the Bible forbids all homosexual activity.
However, he does not support attempts to "convert" gays into straights; rather, he advises gay people to pursue celibacy.
His position is what some refer to as "Side B."

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Dr. Campolo believes that the Bible forbids same-gender sexual relationships because the Bible forbids same-gender sexual relationships.

Please note that I said "sexual relationships", not "sexual feelings".

Yes I guess I am - I had forgotten that his opinion differed from his wife on this subject.

Hi everybody, remember me?!

I remember aspen, rach, and a few others here - I used to post a long time ago. Maybe no one remembers me, but anyway back to op.

It is a very interesting topic - I've been straight my whole life (30 odd years), but recently I've been experiencing feelings toward the same sex. It could sometimes be very intensely sexual. So I am confused whether it is inborn trait or something you develop later on.

But I realize I shouldn't judge gay people. It is not easy to deal with this.

I remember coming across some of your posts, elysian.

The devil is walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. I have said - with reference to this topic - many times, that God is able to heal.

My first advice to you would be to reject those thoughts, and definitely to not act on them. In the longterm (or as long as necessary), keep giving yourself to God and asking Him to heal that which is broken. I don't know if you might be reminded of past events by the Lord, which might give a basis for such thoughts to rest or find a hook, or more likely - like the rest of us - you are being constantly bombarded with ungodliness in the world, and finding that some of it is trying to stick. The best remedies are in yielding yourself to the Lord primarily and to right relationships with both men and women. Keep yourself in the love of God. Walk in the light. Be being washed in the word of God daily, and be filled with the Spirit, through singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

In Genesis 14, when the king of Sodom suddenly appeared during a moment of worship when Abraham was sharing bread and wine with Melchizedek, we had thought he was dead in the limepits a few verses before. In fact, he is such a predator, he knows no boundaries, such as when others are in the presence of God seeking His face: he feels perfectly comfortable butting in to offer a scandalous business deal in which he gets to exchange worthless goods for men's precious souls.

Are we not grateful that Abraham was totally unimpressed, and sent him on his way empty-handed? This is to be our example. NO DEAL!!!!

Angelina said:

God created male and female to become one, because "one" came from the other making them two. They were one and the same person. He did not create two of the same kind [male and male or female and female] to become one because they cannot be one person like Adam and Eve. They do not even have the natural anatomy to do such. Adam has a missing rib...what does that tell you about God and his meaning of two becoming one?

Perversion and sexual impurity including homosexuality and lesbianism will never gain equal status with God's blessing of two becoming one under the covenant of marriage... :huh: because they are of the world and the ruler of this world will always pervert things that are holy and righteous and God ordained... so they are of the world and the world listens to them and we are of Christ and Christ is of God...just my thoughts!

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I agree with you

Do you think homosexuality is a spirit? When people insist they were born gay, were they demon possessed at a young age?

elysian said:

Hi everybody, remember me?!

I remember aspen, rach, and a few others here - I used to post a long time ago. Maybe no one remembers me, but anyway back to op.

It is a very interesting topic - I've been straight my whole life (30 odd years), but recently I've been experiencing feelings toward the same sex. It could sometimes be very intensely sexual. So I am confused whether it is inborn trait or something you develop later on.

But I realize I shouldn't judge gay people. It is not easy to deal with this.

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elysian, we know through the Bible that God has already judged same-gender sexual behavior, just as He has judged adultery. Both are condemned by God.

It is one thing to feel an urge to participate in sexual sin. It is another thing to give in to such a feeling and to voluntarily participate in sinful sexual behavior.

Then there is this that the Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (ESV):

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

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So, we Christians have every right to judge the sinful behavior of people who are within the universal Church.

Foreigner said:

My nephew said he knew he was attracted to boys instead of girls "at roughly seven or eight years old."
He will tell you he had a normal childhood. His father and mother loved him very much and never hit him or verbally abused him.
He states he was never sexually abused or even picked on when he was in school.
Lots of friends, but more friends who were girls than guys.
He came out in the fall of his freshman year and insists that there was nothing in his life that would cause anyone to think it was result of his environment.

Read into that what you will.

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Foreigner, Thank you for this post. I also know several people who have said the same thing about their childhood. I believe it has something to do with our DNA.

There are 2 liberal interpretations of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22).
A Rabbi told me the prohibition in Leviticus 18 referred to inter-family relationships. The whole chapter is about unlawful sexual unions between relatives. The subject is set in vs 6; "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord" (Leviticus 18:6). So in the Rabbi's opinion, "mankind" meant someone who was kin to you. It was not a law against 2 unrelated males, but in-laws etc.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)
The same non-orthodox Rabbi interpreted this prohibition as referring to ritualistic behavior. The first 6 verses of the chapter set the subject, the pagan prostitutes of surrounding tribes would perform unnatural homosexual acts at their temple, this was symbolic of giving their seed to their god Molech. So in the Rabbi's opinion, this was not applicable to people born gay, but for the strait males who indulged in perverted sexual acts in the worship of Molech. God did not want the Israelites to emulate those pagan practices.

I personally don't agree with either view, but thought I'd mention how some justify homosexuality. The good Rabbi also quoted Romans 1:23&24; "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". He claimed Paul was also referring to idolatry, and the reason God gave them over to the lustful perversions of idol worship. Why a Rabbi read the new testament, I don't know?

Does God create homosexuals? Read this article.

A commonly held false idea in our day is that God creates some people homosexual (or that homosexuality is a result of some sort of “psychological” problem). In fact, it is apparent from our contacts with people that most of those who consider themselves “traditional Catholics” believe that there is nothing wrong with the homosexual orientation, but only in homosexual acts. The truth is that God doesn’t create anyone with a homosexual orientation and that all those who are truly homosexuals (even those who are not engaging in homosexual acts) are homosexuals because of a demonic takeover and mortal sin. Those who scoff at this statement are simply faithless liberals who don’t want the truth and have no concept of the supernatural world.

Romans 1- “Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened... who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error... they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”

Romans 1 clearly teaches that because these persons “worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator” and “changed the truth of God into a lie” God gave them up to homosexuality, which is described as a SHAMEFUL AFFECTION. Further, Romans 1 clearly teaches that homosexuality is “against nature,” which means that this orientation is foreign to man’s nature, that is, it is NOT INSTILLED BY GOD.

Men and women are given over to homosexuality for inundating themselves with sins of impurity – and thereby worshipping the flesh rather than God – and for this they get possessed by the demon of lust, which takes them over and corrupts their entire orientation. (And they can be cured of this.) People also become homosexuals by engaging in idolatry or by harboring a perverse fascination with human beings over God – thereby worshipping the creature rather than the Creator. The fact that all homosexuals are spiritually possessed by a demonic spirit is corroborated by the fact that most homosexual males can be identified by their effeminate external mannerisms. What explains this? It’s obviously the demon’s presence in the person manifesting itself externally – the external, unnatural mannerisms revealing the internal corruption of the soul.

Isaias 3:9 – "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves."

Notice that the prophet Isaias, referring to homosexuals, says that “they have rewarded evil unto themselves.” This is strikingly similar to Romans 1 above, where St. Paul says that homosexuals have received “in themselves the recompense [reward] which was due to their error.” The truth that all homosexuals are spiritually possessed by a demonic spirit is also corroborated by the fact that society has recently seen an incredible increase in the number of people who consider themselves homosexuals. This is easily explained by the fact that, with the advent and explosion of the internet and other technological means which make access to pornography and impurity easy, millions more people are committing sins of impurity, millions more people are becoming possessed, and countless more are becoming homosexuals. (And, of course, not all who commit mortal sins of impurity become homosexuals, so those who somehow think they are okay because they are not homosexuals, even though they are committing sins of impurity, are sorely deceived and are also on the road to Hell and in bondage to the Devil.) Read the full article here: http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/does_God_create_homosexuals.php

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Elizabeth said:

Does God create homosexuals? Read this article.

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Amen!

So.....we cannot gain salvation from our parents, but we can inherit evil spirits......?

Sounds like you are placing more power into the hands of evil spirits, to me.......demons do not know how to have personal relationships - Hell is the place spirits go when they are incapable of personal relationships.

Angelina said:

Sometimes a demonic entity [familiar spirit] will come down the family line.

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Uh, do you have a Bible reference that backs up that claim?

Uh, do you have a Bible reference that backs up that claim?

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Why do you think God included incest, bestiality and homosexuality in the same chapter about abstaining from idolatry, if there was no spiritual significance to idolatry? One of the surest ways to pick up a demon, is through illegal sexual activity. The mindset which goes with it is easily picked up by children - who are totally vulnerable and without defence or objectivity - preparing them - grooming them - to be receptive when they are older.

In the following verse, God says (the demons behind) the gods will make the children of Israel sin against Him in their abominations. (As Paul points out, following many prophetic observations in the Old Testament to the same effect, the idol 'is nothing', but to serve them is to serve demons.

Exodus 23:33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

It is actually easy to miss the spiritual significance of the text (many times in the Pentateuch) because the word given is 'nations', not demons, but if you analyse the flow of those references, you'll realise the message God has given, is about serving the gods of the nations - the demons, not the idols..

There is an old whine and it goes something like this....

Why was I born like this? I didn't ask for this! Why did God make me like this?

The question is not meant to illicit an answer from the Most High. It's meant to justify hatred of God and usually that of sin itself.

Want some cheese with that whine?

"I was born this way. God made me that way. Therefore I am free to sin. I have a license from God to do as I please (even if nobody else does)."

In point of fact the Bible teaches that all men and women are depraved from the time of their birth until they're put into their graves. The real birth defect, the nature to sin, ALWAYS justifies it's own actions forbidden by God.

Nobody has a license to sin. There are no excuses and no blank checks issued to anyone for any sin.

The homosexual issue is like a man or woman looking at themselves in a mirror. They love what they see there and cannot understand those who ask them to look elsewhere for their inspiration. Even more, those that suggest this ancient type of narcissism might be unhealthy, uncivil, irresponsible(*) or sinful are accused of being hateful.

I submit to the reader that evidence for real hate comes from those who are not gay but who approve. These allow the person who burns with unholy desire to continue to their own destruction - in hell as it is on earth.

Those who give warning do so out of love and consideration.

Are those who believe they are born gay justified in their forbidden acts of sin? Never. Neither is anybody else, but gays seem to miss that important point. As with most issues in the gay community, it's all about them. 'Look at me.' 'Look at me.' Look at me.'

Go back to the mirror. You will see no Dorian Gray there. Sooner or later the mirror will tell you the truth - that you are human and the grave awaits. The solution is to make peace with God, whatever the price.

The time for repentance and salvation in the name of Jesus Christ is now.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) The activity is irresponsible for the person and for all that know them.

A good friend of mine from High School days died as a result of a homosexual encounter. His murder affected all of those who knew him. I had no idea Peter was gay, but in the end all that mattered was that I'd never see him again. Gays never talk about this sort of thing, but it is a real and present danger to this day. More gays have died at the hand of other gays than by any real or imagined persecution from straight folk. But we don't hear or read about that aspect. The 'look at me' attitude requires an examination of ALL aspects of the gay community - sin notwithstanding.

The answer would depend on what you mean by "homosexuality". The word is sometimes used to mean the same sex attraction that some people experience and sometimes to the act of engaging in sex with someone of the same sex.

Because of the effect of sin on the human race people are born with various physical and mental defects. In some cases their sexual makeup is defective so that they are attracted to others of the same sex. This condition isn't a sin but the result is that they are exposed to a specific temptation that heterosexuals aren't. Some yield to the temptation and commit sin; others resist it. Here are two good sites about this subject:

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

http://www.christopheryuan.com/mobile/index.html

I didn't bother to read through the thread (which seemed like an attempt to give opportunity to people to apologize for their sin,) but the answer isn't so simple. You might ask instead are people born to a nature of sin and the answer to that question would be yes. What does sin do to us? It distorts the image of God, that which we were intended to convey.
Children are born as male or female (and sometimes as peculiar genetic accidents), but they aren't sexual creatures until they discover that pleasure can be derived from sexual activity. This may happen before or after puberty, but early sexual experiences have a profound affect on gender and sexual self identification. In an earlier and predominantly Christian society children were discouraged from participating in anything resembling sexual activity prior to an age when they would be capable of facing the consequences of their behavior and restricted to the safety of the marital relationship. If you subject children to perverse behavior at an earlier age, they will be more inclined to accept it as normal and imitate it as natural. If sin weren't pleasurable, we wouldn't sin.
God created us with the ability to experience pleasure, but sin takes what God intends for good and perverts it for evil. We don't all have the same evil bents, any more than we all have the same interests and goals, but we all sin because we were born with a fallen nature.
We use science to try to prove that one man's sin is caused by some genetic flaw or defect, whether it is alcoholism, gluttony, sexual immorality, whatever is a distortion of the natural pleasures that God has given us, so that we can excuse our sin and blame someone else (our parents,) or so that we can call it "normal" and may continue in it. What has God called us to do? Confess our sin to God, trust in the blood of Jesus Christ to be sufficient payment for it, and strive against it (its an ongoing battle regardless of the type of sin that has its strength in your flesh.)
God calls homosexuality an abomination. He also calls pride an abomination. The Lord doesn't like sin, but nothing short of rejecting Christ is unforgivable; He makes all things new. Shouldn't we allow Him to change us and renew us in His image, or should we keep making excuses for sin and blame everyone but ourselves?

People may be born gay. We all are born with particular God-given weaknesses that we are to overcome and endure. "My grace is sufficient for you."
being gay is not a sin, giving in to the temptation and living thelifestyle, practicing the act is a sin. But it ain't theworst sin (not even close). Christians need to preach against the sins that the church are committing, not those of the world (take the plank out our own eye first so we can see clearly to take out the speck from others.)
According to Jesus, sexual sin is a speck compared to the plank of being judgmental. (Judge not....the prostitutes and tax collectors will inherit the kingdom before you)

See...homosexuals use that excuse to show that their feelings are 'natural'. But honestly, it just doesn't hold water. Yeah, they probably were born that way, we're all born sinful with a broken nature. But that does not give us any excuse for it....sin is sin, we need Jesus, and we need to repent.

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Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

All here includes those who are homosexuals. This is a sin that can be repented of just like any other sin.

the only reason we can recognize the personal sin in others is to increase our empathy and compassion for our neighbors.