TRUTH

Rex said:

You can dance around my points and pretend to not understand, all of that will never change the bottom line, that you teach and follow a different gospel. Because Paul wrote the letter to the Roman church doesn't mean he wrote it to yours. Beside I nor you or anyone else need to argue about the history, lets simply look at what you teach today and your fruits. BTW Daniel describers you as two legs not lungs.

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[font=lucida sans unicode']What we have been teaching today is what we have been teaching for thousands of years. All you have to do is compare our doctrines to the Eastern Orthodox Church and you will find that both our doctrines are 99% similar. For example, both the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Church practice all 7 sacraments. We are the two oldest Christian Churches and our doctrines are almost identical. Therefore, if anyone minimized or took away the Gospel, it would be those who were newly born about 500 years ago. [/font]

Rex said:

Ask yourself what is the only vestige that still survives Rome today?
YOUR CHURCH that's whats left of the First Roman empire

I might add that your eastern leg also still exists though you claim dominion over it.

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[font=lucida sans unicode']Our Church stands today only because of Christ's promise to us. Christ did promise to be with us until the end of the world. God does not go back on HIs promises. Christ also promised that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church. Well, we know for a fact that the gates of Hell have even been inside the Catholic Church......BUT Christ was true to His word.....even inside the Catholic Church the gates of Hell did not prevail. The Catholic Church prevailed and continues to stand for 2000 years. And this is the reason why despite the Roman Empire, we are still left standing because of Christ's promise to us. He promised that even the gates of Hell will not prevail against HIs Church.[/font]

Since we are talking about truth, lets see if any of this is God like or anything like Jesus, now all of this is fact and can be found anywhere.

Selling Salavtion at a price to the poor.
Child molestation,
Torture and death if you wont join the church
Speaking in Latin so the unlearned will not know what you are speaking about, Jesus never spoke in latin He spoke in the tongue of the people.
Telling the poor men if they fought for teh church there families and them would be gauranteed salvation.
Keeping the truth from the peolple so the ywould have to come to you, still hasnt changed.

se the devil is,

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So would you satnd face to face with God and tell Him that is His church? I couldnt.

Reformation

One particular practice that he didn't like was when priests will sell "entrances to heaven" to people in exchange for money. The . ...... Church were selling indulgences, saying that if you buy it, you have salvation, and people like Martin Luther didn't agree with that, saying that by God's grace we are saved.

Crusades ( murdering Gods chosen people)

[font="Trebuchet MS""]The religious hysteria of the Crusaders mounted under Peter the Hermit's (a preacher) impassioned verbal anti-Semitic attacks. Peter told his Christian Knights, since the Jews were as much infidels as the Arabs and since they were much closer than the Arabs, they might as well begin their "holy crusade for Christ" by killing Jews along the way―a sure way for the Crusaders to earn salvation for themselves. This precipitated a genocidal slaughter of Jews on a staggering scale. First in France, then in England, the Crusaders massacred the Jews wherever they found them. From there the tide of violence rolled on, without interference from any Church, into Germany, Austria, and elsewhere in Europe. Their war cry was, “Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" Thousands of Jews in the synagogues were burned alive by the Crusaders. European records tell of more than 350 Jewish communities which were wiped out. Hundreds of thousands Jews died―all under the approval of the Christian Church, in the name of Jesus[/font]

But I think this will need to close.

Is this an attack, it is the truth it is written for all to see, look for yourselves, salvation is in Christ alone, anyone that5 says otherwise, is a liar and a deceiver.

In all His Love

Selene said:

[font=lucida sans unicode']Our Church stands today only because of Christ's promise to us. [/font]

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My faith and salvation has nothing to do with the works of men.
We can see in Rev 12 that the Lord took the woman "church AKA true believers" into the wilderness. I happen to believe for 1260 years.

So how ever you like to interpret scripture the fact still remains that God always holds a remnant and watches over the true believers. Of course during this time the RCC was exterminating any opposition to its doctrine, by force of course.

BTW I don't profess to belong to any church FYI

375 AD
+
1260
________

1635 AD

I am not a catholic. I do not believe in their doctrine, agree with many of their teachings, and I am not going to kiss the popes...ring. Having said that...

IMO...it is unfair to lump "child molestation" in with other practices of the church that are worthy of condemnation.

Child molestation is NOT part of their doctrine or one of their teachings. You will find far more of those perverted freaks outside the Catholic Church than you will find in it. I would like to note here that...IMO...there is a special place in hell not only for priests, but any pervert that violates a child's trust in this manner.

Heres a plug for Tim from pa's church
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintexthistories.asp?historyid=ac18

Information on and around 1635

I owe him that for the good laugh Im getting in a particular thread ROTF LOL

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17077-what-denomination-would-you-say-is-the-one-most-genuinely-representing-the-original-teaching-of-christ/page__st__30

Hears another date for you to contemplate.

The Papacy's power became supreme in Christendom in 538 A.D. due to the letter of Roman Emperor Justinian, which acknowledged the bishop of Rome as the head of all churches. This letter became a part of Justinian's code, the fundamental law of the empire. The Papal power was broken in 1798 A.D. when Napoleon's general, Berthier, took the Pope captive and he died in exile. Notice that the amount of years from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D. is exactly 1260, as prophecy

You will find far more of those perverted freaks outside the Catholic Church than you will find in

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Yes and that is why "religion" is not from God, Revelation talks about the great whore and her many daughters, they are all teh same.

In all His Love

mjrhealth, how would you know, you can't even interpret the apocalyptic language found in the Book of Revelation, you are just blowing smoke, you've not a clue..

kepha31 said:

John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.


This is typical fundie hate speech with no documentation. This off topic-red herring tactic is common with anti-Catholics. Fire off a cluster bomb of off-topic falsehoods that takes pages to refute because they can't defend their false views.

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Jesus spoke Aramaic when He commissioned Peter.
Jesus gave Peter special authority among the apostles [ John 21: 15-17 ] and signified this by changing his name from Simon to Peter, which means "rock" [ John 1:42 ] Jesus clearly states that Peter was to be the rock on which He would build His [ Matt. 16: 18 ] earthly Church on.

A red herring never seeing one. But Kepha its there for all the world too see. It is the truth, you will even find it written int the Vatican archives if they would let you in. Are you afraid to seek lest you might find, I was born and raised a catholic so I have seeing it from the inside, and i am glad Jesus set me free.

If Jesus was to give you a high performance sports car, than religion would be akin to towing around a trailer laden with bricks. You will still get there, just not as fast.

" [ John 1:42 ] Jesus clearly states that Peter was to be the rock on which He would build His [ Matt. 16: 18 ] earthly Church on.

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Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Always left out to prove a false point. Dont you want revelation from God, or is it some believe God doesnt talk to us mere men??

In all His Love

Look, lets settle this issue, Axehead was not there, nor was mjrhealth there, neither was any Protestant minister but Peter was there with Jesus. Jesus wasn't talking about Himself because Jesus just changed Simon's name to his new name which was Kepha [ which means rock ] Later this name was translated into Greek as Petros [ John 1:42 ] and into English as Peter. Jesus gave Peter alone ' the keys of the kingdom " [ Matt. 16:19 ] Now swallow your pride and forego your ego and quit your indifference/ protesting. Protestants should stop mocking Jesus.I am so glad I left you're cold-hearted churches and it's similar preaching. The "Truth " is you haven't any respect for the Church that Jesus left us just as you have never yet called the mother of Jesus "Blessed Mary " not once have I ever heard a Protestant speak this "Truth" from the Holy Bible.

neophyte said:

Look, lets settle this issue, Axehead was not there, nor was mjrhealth there, neither was any Protestant minister but Peter was there with Jesus. Jesus wasn't talking about Himself because Jesus just changed Simon's name to his new name which was Kepha [ which means rock ] Later this name was translated into Greek as Petros [ John 1:42 ] and into English as Peter. Jesus gave Peter alone ' the keys of the kingdom " [ Matt. 16:19 ] Now swallow your pride and forego your ego and quit your indifference/ protesting. Protestants should stop mocking Jesus.I am so glad I left you're cold-hearted churches and it's similar preaching. The "Truth " is you haven't any respect for the Church that Jesus left us just as you have never yet called the mother of Jesus "Blessed Mary " not once have I ever heard a Protestant speak this "Truth" from the Holy Bible.

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Rock and Roll
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17095-pope-makes-interesting-claim-on-date-of-christs-birth/#entry174991

Many Christians are waking up, the veil is being removed and they can see what religion for what it is. As for me being a protestant, as I said, never met one. If stading for truth makes us a protestant in your eyes than so be it. It will not change who we are in Christ.

This is not about US and THEM its about TRUTH and DECEPTION. In the end all those who believe in Him will be saved, in church or out of church. its a small thing for God to do.

And when you eneter in to heaven just remeber to leave your baggage at the gates, it will have no bearing on your salvation.

In all His Love

Yes, it is about the Truth. Christ promised to be with His Church, and His Church has been standing for 2000 years. Even to this day, our numbers are growing. Statistics shows that Protestantism has been decreasing. The miracle in the United States is that the numbers of the Catholics are still stable and have slightly increased. I say this is a miracle because it was in the US where many Catholic homosexual priests were charged with child abuse. I would expect the numbers to decrease after that incident, but statistics show otherwise. So, as you can see, God stands by His word when He said that He will always be with His Church. If we are not HIs true Church, we would not be standing for 2000 years. We would be decreasing and then vanish......just like the Gnostics who called themselves "Christians", but have vanished in the annuals of time....and all that is left of them are their books.

According to the statistics on Religion in America:

Mainline Protestant denominations in the United States continue their decades-long membership decline, while the membership in Pentecostal churches are on the rise, according to new figures compiled by the National Council of Churches.

The Roman Catholic Church (No. 1) and the Southern Baptist Convention (No. 2) are still significantly larger than all other North American denominations, but Catholics posted minimal growth of less than 1%, and Southern Baptist membership fell for a third straight year, according to the 2011 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churchespublished this week.

The figures in the 2011 yearbook, compiled by churches in 2009 and reported to the council in 2010, show that mainline Protestant churches continue the decline in memberships that began in the 1970s. The newest numbers show that the membership drop in mainline churches led to a 1% decrease in total U.S. church membership, to 145.8 million.

The Presbyterian Church (USA) led with the greatest membership drop of the 25 largest denominations, down 2.6%.

6]Other denominations reporting declines include the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Episcopal Church as well as the more conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.​

But the flip side of the membership trend is also reflected in the 2010 numbers: Churches on the growth trend in recent years "continue to grow," writes the Rev. Eileen Lindner, the editor of the 2010 yearbook.

Pentecostal churches make up four of the 25 largest churches, and both the Assemblies of God and the Church of God (Cleveland, Tenn.) increased in membership. Only six of the 25 largest memberships increased over 2009 numbers.
Jehovah's Witnesses experienced the greatest growth percentage overall, gaining 4.37% according to the yearbook. Several historically black denominations continued a years-long practice of not submitting fresh figures.

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http://usatoday30.us...wth_15_ST_N.htm

Statistics show that for many decades, Protestant churches in America have declined in their membership while the Catholic Church have either remained stable or slightly increased. According to the statistics above, the only Church that has shown a great increase is the Pentecostal Church and the Jehovah Witness. As for the Catholics, we remain the largest denomination and there is a very slight increase in membership. This is actually a miracle. Why? Because I actually expected a decline in church membership due to the many sex scandals there in the US. But that is not the case. So, as you can see, the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church.

Now, according to the article the greatest growth was reported among the Jehovah Witness. These are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Am I worried about this growth? Of course not. Why? Because this is what the Bible says:

Acts 5:36-39 Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing. After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered. So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." They were persuaded by him"

I am not worried because any false religion that comes along will eventually grow as they attract followers, but in the end, it will fall just like the Gnostics many centuries ago because these religions are of human origin and did not come from God.

By the way, I only showed you statistics in America. Statistics today shows that Catholicism has grown in the continents of Asia and Africa.....continents that are predominantly pagan. In Indonesia, 10,000 Muslims converted to Catholicism. So, yes, it is about the Truth. And the Truth will prevail.

Selene said:

Yes, it is about the Truth. Christ promised to be with His Church, and His Church has been standing for 2000 years. Even to this day, our numbers are growing. Statistics shows that Protestantism has been decreasing. The miracle in the United States is that the numbers of the Catholics are still stable and have slightly increased. I say this is a miracle because it was in the US where many Catholic homosexual priests were charged with child abuse. I would expect the numbers to decrease after that incident, but statistics show otherwise. So, as you can see, God stands by His word when He said that He will always be with His Church. If we are not HIs true Church, we would not be standing for 2000 years. We would be decreasing and then vanish......just like the Gnostics who called themselves "Christians", but have vanished in the annuals of time....and all that is left of them are their books.

According to the statistics on Religion in America:



http://usatoday30.us...wth_15_ST_N.htm

Statistics show that for many decades, Protestant churches in America have declined in their membership while the Catholic Church have either remained stable or slightly increased. According to the statistics above, the only Church that has shown a great increase is the Pentecostal Church and the Jehovah Witness. As for the Catholics, we remain the largest denomination and there is a very slight increase in membership. This is actually a miracle. Why? Because I actually expected a decline in church membership due to the many sex scandals there in the US. But that is not the case. So, as you can see, the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church.

Now, according to the article the greatest growth was reported among the Jehovah Witness. These are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Am I worried about this growth? Of course not. Why? Because this is what the Bible says:

Acts 5:36-39 Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing. After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered. So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." They were persuaded by him"

I am not worried because any false religion that comes along will eventually grow as they attract followers, but in the end, it will fall just like the Gnostics many centuries ago because these religions are of human origin and did not come from God.

By the way, I only showed you statistics in America. Statistics today shows that Catholicism has grown in the continents of Asia and Africa.....continents that are predominantly pagan. In Indonesia, 10,000 Muslims converted to Catholicism. So, yes, it is about the Truth. And the Truth will prevail. />

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Dear Selene,

You think Jesus bases success on numbers? I see that you do. Don't fall for that trap.

Selene said:

Yes, it is about the Truth. Christ promised to be with His Church, and His Church has been standing for 2000 years. Even to this day, our numbers are growing. Statistics shows that Protestantism has been decreasing. The miracle in the United States is that the numbers of the Catholics are still stable and have slightly increased. I say this is a miracle because it was in the US where many Catholic homosexual priests were charged with child abuse. I would expect the numbers to decrease after that incident, but statistics show otherwise. So, as you can see, God stands by His word when He said that He will always be with His Church. If we are not HIs true Church, we would not be standing for 2000 years. We would be decreasing and then vanish......just like the Gnostics who called themselves "Christians", but have vanished in the annuals of time....and all that is left of them are their books.

According to the statistics on Religion in America:



http://usatoday30.us...wth_15_ST_N.htm

Statistics show that for many decades, Protestant churches in America have declined in their membership while the Catholic Church have either remained stable or slightly increased. According to the statistics above, the only Church that has shown a great increase is the Pentecostal Church and the Jehovah Witness. As for the Catholics, we remain the largest denomination and there is a very slight increase in membership. This is actually a miracle. Why? Because I actually expected a decline in church membership due to the many sex scandals there in the US. But that is not the case. So, as you can see, the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church.

Now, according to the article the greatest growth was reported among the Jehovah Witness. These are people who do not believe that Jesus is God. Am I worried about this growth? Of course not. Why? Because this is what the Bible says:

Acts 5:36-39 Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing. After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered. So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." They were persuaded by him"

I am not worried because any false religion that comes along will eventually grow as they attract followers, but in the end, it will fall just like the Gnostics many centuries ago because these religions are of human origin and did not come from God.

By the way, I only showed you statistics in America. Statistics today shows that Catholicism has grown in the continents of Asia and Africa.....continents that are predominantly pagan. In Indonesia, 10,000 Muslims converted to Catholicism. So, yes, it is about the Truth. And the Truth will prevail. />

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Dear Selene,

You think Jesus bases success on numbers? I see that you do. Don't fall for that trap.

Axehead said:

Dear Selene,

You think Jesus bases success on numbers? I see that you do. Don't fall for that trap.




Dear Selene,

You think Jesus bases success on numbers? I see that you do. Don't fall for that trap.

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I"m not worried about the numbers because as the Holy Bible says, those with false religions will simply destroy themselves like the Gnostics who vanished centuries ago. Christ said that He will be with His Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. We're still standing and standing strong despite all the things the gates of Hell throw at us.

Christ said that He will build a Church. He did not say He will build "churches." He only built one Church and He only have one chosen people - the Jews. From this one chosen people came Christ, our Lord and Savior. He did not come from anywhere else. Christ built only one Church. And from this one Church will bring all the peoples to Him.

John 21:10-11 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught." So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one hundred fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not torn.

Christ said that He will make His Apostles "fishers of men," and when He asked for the fish, it was St. Peter who brought the entire fish to Jesus. We are the Church who was founded by Christ through the Apostle Peter. Israel (God's chosen people) brought forth our Lord and Savior, and this one Church built by Christ through Peter will bring all men to our Lord and Savior. There was a reason Christ built a Church. That reason is to carry on His ministry and to bring all men to Know our Lord and Savior.

Axehead, I believe the point being that Jesus will always keep His promise and preserve his Church regardless of the number of members but i understand Selene with the number factor, while that it is those members regardless of numbers must have a Church [ His Church ] to always be there for them. Protestant churches along with their off-shoot cults will keep splintering away all the while becoming more watered-down and eventually all will disappear While many of the Colored Baptist and Evangelical churches will assimilate into the ever-increasing Muslim [ Islam ] Religion. While most of the Black African Church will be Catholic.
.As it is written only His Church will be there to meet Christ when he returns.

neophyte said:

Axehead, I believe the point being that Jesus will always keep His promise and preserve his Church regardless of the number of members but i understand Selene with the number factor, while that it is those members regardless of numbers must have a Church [ His Church ] to always be there for them. Protestant churches along with their off-shoot cults will keep splintering away all the while becoming more watered-down and eventually all will disappear While many of the Colored Baptist and Evangelical churches will assimilate into the ever-increasing Muslim [ Islam ] Religion. While most of the Black African Church will be Catholic.
.As it is written only His Church will be there to meet Christ when he returns.

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That is true. Even if the Catholics are the smallest in number, we would still be the largest because all false religions will vanish just as it says in the Holy Bible. God will not break His promise to His Church. When He says that the gates of Hell will not prevail against her....then it will not. And the gates of Hell have even been INSIDE the Church,trying to change the Church from within, but the Church still prevailed.

Right now, the only religion that has surpassed the Catholics in numbers are the Muslim, and they're not Christians.. For the first time in history, their numbers surpassed us, but even then, I'm not worried. It has already been reported that 10,000 Mulsims in Indonesia have converted to Catholicism. And the radical Muslims have grown more fearful of us.. Of all Christian denominations, it is the Roman Catholics they fear the most that they actually tried to assassinate our Pope - our Blessed Pope John Paul II.