Spoken Word and Written Word are the Same

Axehead · Oct 25, 2012

Their spoken word and written word is the same.

1 Thess 2:1 - Paul reminded the church in Thessalonica that "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

II Peter 1:12-15 - presents a powerful affirmation that what the apostles taught orally was then codified in written form as the same message: "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance."

From Peter's words we can see the following:

1. Gospel truths taught orally can soon be forgotten.
2. They had already been taught those truths that Peter repeats in written form for several reasons.

To remind them of truths already embraced.
To "stir them up" to the meanings of and the practice of those truths.
To preserve those truths beyond the life span of the apostles.
To give permanent form to the truths taught.
To let them know that after the death of the apostles there will be no other source of knowledge about the Gospel truth.

I John 2:20-21 - The apostle assures Christians that they have from the apostles all the truth (what they "heard from the beginning" vs. 24). He then says: "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth."

The "truth heard from the beginning" relates to the oral teaching of the apostle.
What John now writes has 3 basic purposes:

To confirm truths already taught.
To warn about the "lies" of the Antichrist.
And to give a permanent record of the truth.

1 Cor 15:1-4 - Paul repeats the message the Christians in Corinth had heard
- Paul is saying that the gospel:

Had already been preached to them.
They had received apostolic testimony.
They we "standing in" the message.
They were saved by it.
Then why did Paul repeat it? For the same reasons Peter and John repeated in written form what they had taught orally.

The Written Word was Confirmed by Apostolic Signature and Internal Evidence
The churches of New Testament times recognized the apostolic origin of the books they received.

Read Romans 16 for the list of names in Rome that could confirm the Pauline authorship of the book - as could the beloved sister Phoebe - who delivered the book.
1 Corinthians 1:1 - The epistle was written from Ephesus and bore the testimony of Sosthenes - the former ruler of the Jewish synagogue in Corinth.
Colossians 4:18 - "The salutation by the hand of me Paul."
II Thess 3:17 - "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write."
Gal 6:11 - "Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand."
John 21:24 - "This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."
Eph 6:21 - "But that you may know my affairs, Tychicus the beloved...shall make known to you all things, whom I have sent unto you for this very purpose." The personal representative of Paul to Ephesus confirmed the validity of the book.
Philippians 2:25-28 - "I count it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus...your minister to my needs..." It was the "minister" of the Philippian church to Paul's needs that verified the Pauline origin of the letter.
1 Peter 5:12 - "By Silvanus, our faithful brother, as I account him, I have written to you briefly." Again, it is the personal acquaintance that verifies the letter.

One thing is certain! There is not a person alive today that can give one fact of Jesus' life, or supply one word of His teaching that is not already contained in scripture. There is not one word or deed known to any man except that which the apostles recorded for us on the pages of the New Testament. In fact, from dozens of scriptures, it is evident that what the apostles taught orally and verbally are exactly the same things that they, in turn, wrote down in Scripture.

Axehead

biggandyy · Oct 25, 2012

Axehead said:
One thing is certain! There is not a person alive today that can give one fact of Jesus' life, or supply one word of His teaching that is not already contained in scripture. There is not one word or deed known to any man except that which the apostles recorded for us on the pages of the New Testament.

That statement borders on the absurd. Let me ask you, how many times did Jesus sneeze? That is indeed a "fact of Jesus' life" not contained in scripture.

All I'm saying is be careful of blanket statements such as the one you just made. Oft times they are intended to be used for added emphasis of a truth, but usually wind up coming across as weird caricatures of reality.

Axehead · Oct 26, 2012

biggandyy said:
That statement borders on the absurd. Let me ask you, how many times did Jesus sneeze? That is indeed a "fact of Jesus' life" not contained in scripture.

All I'm saying is be careful of blanket statements such as the one you just made. Oft times they are intended to be used for added emphasis of a truth, but usually wind up coming across as weird caricatures of reality.

Then maybe we should just stick with this: "[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]or supply one word of His teaching [/background][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]that is not already contained in scripture".[/background]

Of course he sneezed, but I don't know what color his eyes were.

I think you missed my point, but that's ok.

biggandyy · Oct 26, 2012

No, I saw your point, but I had to wade through a lot of misstatements, over statements, and hyperbole to see it. I was just pointing out where you could have been more clear in your word choice.

Axehead · Oct 26, 2012

Ok, well thanks anyway for your comments. I am glad you got my point, though.

dragonfly · Oct 27, 2012

Hi Axehead,

I enjoyed the OP, but I have a comment, which I will make later, when it's crystallised down to fewer words. (You'll be grateful!)

dragonfly · Nov 3, 2012

Hi Axehead,

I also knew what you were trying to say, but kept thinking of how the apostles had the Old Testament, which formed the technical basis of their preaching. Importantly, though, Jesus makes clear to them that they are pivotal in God's plan, because they were eyewitnesses of His ministry and teaching. John 17:6 ,7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; Luke 1:2

The phrase you quoted from John 'heard from the beginning', he uses four times. It reminds again that 'the hearing' is a translation of the Hebrew word for 'doctrine'. Despite having Jesus as their teacher, all the apostles had experienced not being able to understand Jesus' teaching, until He had explained privately. I imagine they were relieved to receive the Holy Spirit's power and authority, as well as His power to interpret what they'd heard, and could read in the scriptures, to their understanding. For although 'no prophecy is of private interpretation', they (and we) have our own private tutor in the truth, in the Holy Spirit.

Now... this part you may not be so grateful for...

I want to query this sentence from what you said of Peter's ministry:

To let them know that after the death of the apostles there will be no other source of knowledge about the Gospel truth.

Were they really the 'source of knowledge about the Gospel truth'?

What about this promise: Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe...' ?

Here is a scripture which ties eyewitnesses, faith, and, effective testimony, together with signs following:

Hebrews 2: '... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard [him]; 4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will'.

Isn't this the test of truth, which you quoted in the OP? 1 Thessalonians 2:13 '... when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit changes each believer into an authentic witness to the truth in God's word, and it is this dynamic - receiving the incorruptible seed, Christ Himself - which enlivens the gospel to each subsequent generation, authoritatively. Heb 12:2.

True, the written testimony of the apostles is an anchor of safe doctrine for the Church, confirming the gospel preached by God to Abraham.

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed... 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

There are two other times of interest the word promise is used, which I feel are connected. (Probably my comments are going in the opposite direction to that expected, but I have no quarrel with the point that new revelation need not be added to scripture.)

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Do you have any light on where in the OT the promise of 'eternal inheritance' is made? Was it implicit in Gen 2:16, or Gen 3:15?

Blessings, brother. Feel free to wrench your thread back into the direction you hoped it would go, if you prefer.

Rex · Nov 3, 2012

I can add nothing, but only to say it is true

Spoken Word and Written Word are the Same

mjrhealth · Nov 3, 2012

Lovely thought based on lie and not fact. Simple thing is.

!. No one actually knows who wrote teh scriptures, it has being debated but in the end it is assumption.
2. The old text where not written in english and many words have being interpretd based on assunption and not fact, Simply put some words in greek and other languges do not have an engish equivelant, so it is teh word is assumed. Ie one word in one line may meing something completely different in another.
3. much of this was written long after Jesus had rissen and was probably based on memories and possible other writings, no one actually knows, which accounts for the differences in some text.
4. It was interpreted by man, religious men, that puts a whole new perspective on it, which is why Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit that so few seem to care for,
5. Even in the bible Jesus says," I have much more to say but you are not ready yet", so Jesus has never stopped speaking.
6. Jesus said, " the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are Life", never mentioned anything about the dead letter. ( thats in the bible too).
7. It pleases teh flesh to say to the world " I have a bible and I believe it", it pleases God more to say,"I have Jesus and I believe Him".

In All His Love

wayseer · Nov 3, 2012

Axehead said:
Gospel truths taught orally can soon be forgotten.

All text was initially orally transmitted and despite your misgivings it was transmitted accurately. It is we who rely on the written word who have lost the skill to learn from oral instruction.

[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

They had already been taught those truths that Peter repeats in written form for several reasons

[/background][/font]

[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]And how do you think Peter communicated those 'truths' - by text messaging?[/background][/font]

[font="'Helvetica Neue"]

The churches of New Testament times recognized the apostolic origin of the books they received.

[/font]

[font="'Helvetica Neue"]To which churches do you refer? Despite what the church has taught we now know none of the Apostles wrote any of the gospels. All we have is Paul's letters - the real ones that is.[/font]

Rex · Nov 3, 2012

mjrhealth said:
Lovely thought based on lie and not fact. Simple thing is.

!. No one actually knows who wrote teh scriptures, it has being debated but in the end it is assumption.
2. The old text where not written in english and many words have being interpretd based on assunption and not fact, Simply put some words in greek and other languges do not have an engish equivelant, so it is teh word is assumed. Ie one word in one line may meing something completely different in another.
3. much of this was written long after Jesus had rissen and was probably based on memories and possible other writings, no one actually knows, which accounts for the differences in some text.
4. It was interpreted by man, religious men, that puts a whole new perspective on it, which is why Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit that so few seem to care for,
5. Even in the bible Jesus says," I have much more to say but you are not ready yet", so Jesus has never stopped speaking.
6. Jesus said, " the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are Life", never mentioned anything about the dead letter. ( thats in the bible too).
7. It pleases teh flesh to say to the world " I have a bible and I believe it", it pleases God more to say,"I have Jesus and I believe Him".

In All His Love

So knowing God with certainty is unrealistic.

I'm of the opinion that If people believe in a creator, then why wouldn't he leave a message?
Granted it's not a well worn path, but God has left a bread crumb trail from the beginning. To those that have found the less traveled trail the word is a living sword cutting to the very soul.

By His Word the heaven and the earth were created. Do you actually believe He's going to allow His message to suffer corruption. Again granted those men that have watched over it can testify to the attack of authenticity it has undergone. How does the phrase go. THE Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers. Yours may fair no better, I would guess long after your gone it will still be here.

mjrhealth · Nov 3, 2012

You miis the pointRex,

Jesus is the Word, long after the bible is gone He will still be around. The bible will continually change, continually revised, each version slightly different from the other, depending on the person or religion that does the conversion, yet Christ will never change, His word will always remain the same, so if His word remains the same but the bible is always changing, please explain to me how they are the same ??? Defies logic even for a 2 year old.

In All His Love

Rex · Nov 3, 2012

mjrhealth said:
You miis the pointRex,

Jesus is the Word, long after the bible is gone He will still be around. The bible will continually change, continually revised, each version slightly different from the other, depending on the person or religion that does the conversion, yet Christ will never change, His word will always remain the same, so if His word remains the same but the bible is always changing, please explain to me how they are the same ??? Defies logic even for a 2 year old.

In All His Love

Yes I did miss the point, I posted that under my own steam, I/m sure u know what I mean. The Lord sets you down
I apologize, no I'll intent meant I assure you. To be honest I couldn't believe what I was reading from you

I've been off work for a couple weeks starting a new project monday Lord willing. I really want to go home, This I do know He's standing at the door

God Bless

Axehead · Nov 7, 2012

dragonfly said:
Hi Axehead,

I also knew what you were trying to say, but kept thinking of how the apostles had the Old Testament, which formed the technical basis of their preaching. Importantly, though, Jesus makes clear to them that they are pivotal in God's plan, because they were eyewitnesses of His ministry and teaching. John 17:6 ,7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; Luke 1:2

The phrase you quoted from John 'heard from the beginning', he uses four times. It reminds again that 'the hearing' is a translation of the Hebrew word for 'doctrine'. Despite having Jesus as their teacher, all the apostles had experienced not being able to understand Jesus' teaching, until He had explained privately. I imagine they were relieved to receive the Holy Spirit's power and authority, as well as His power to interpret what they'd heard, and could read in the scriptures, to their understanding. For although 'no prophecy is of private interpretation', they (and we) have our own private tutor in the truth, in the Holy Spirit.

Now... this part you may not be so grateful for... I want to query this sentence from what you said of Peter's ministry:

Were they really the 'source of knowledge about the Gospel truth'?

Hi dragonfly,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. That is not written clearly and what I meant to say is that there will be no more sources for the writing of Scripture as we see men have tried to do after all the original Apostles died. And as we see, the NT is finished and in Revelation the Lord probibits adding or subtracting from Scripture. Man-made religions have created "addendums" of their writings such as "catechisms" and "canon law" to go with the NT. And they then give these extra biblical writings the same authority as the Scriptures. This is how men get around the warning from Jesus not to "add to or take away from His Word". They say that the Lord still inspires His "apostles" on earth and gives them "new" revelation.

Apostles today do not have that same function and authority regarding the writing of new scriptures to add to the Bible.

You said and I agree that,

"True, the written testimony of the apostles is an anchor of safe doctrine for the Church."

There is no new revelation that God will give that is not contained in Scripture already for the massesl.

What about this promise: Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe...' ?

Here is a scripture which ties eyewitnesses, faith, and, effective testimony, together with signs following:

Hebrews 2: '... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard [him]; 4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will'.

Isn't this the test of truth, which you quoted in the OP? 1 Thessalonians 2:13 '... when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually works also in you that believe.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit changes each believer into an authentic witness to the truth in God's word, and it is this dynamic - receiving the incorruptible seed, Christ Himself - which enlivens the gospel to each subsequent generation, authoritatively. Heb 12:2.

Yes, I believe Mark 16:17.

Will answer the rest of your queries, later.

Axehead

http://www.allaboutt...e-the-bible.htm

The corruption of God's Word in new versions is a wholly different story and thread altogether.

It is true that you can idolize the written letter and miss God altogether as the Pharisees did. Without the Holy Spirit it is a dead letter as only the Spirit of God "giveth life". And you are correct that God would disagree with many versions.

If Satan corrupts and counterfeits everything of God (Holy Spirit, miracles, healings, leadings, dreams, visions, etc, etc) then it is only reasonable to think that he would desire greatly to corrupt God's written word. His first attack in the garden was against the Words of God to Adam and Eve (which we have a written transcript of) and his attack against Jesus in the wilderness were by using God's word and again changing some of it. Jesus referred to His Father's word all the time but did not change or add to it.

2Co_2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Exo_17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Isa_30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:

Rev_1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

In the end mjrhealth, everyone has to either believe or disbelieve, have faith in or not have faith in even God's written word or else in the heat of battle they can compromise and self-justify that "God did not write that or mean it". Not every spirit that speaketh

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Do you believe the scriptures, below? Do you believe the Lord is powerful enough to preserve His word?

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Also, please look into the example that Jesus gave us regarding the Scriptures as He referred to them many times, by saying "It is written". The quotes below are for your enjoyment. I'm sure you will like them.

"The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His Presence, may taste and know the inner sweetness of the very God Himself in the core and center of their hearts." (A. W. Tozer, The Pursuit of God. Christian Publications. 1948. pg. 10).

"We are not to make the Torah into God Himself, nor the Bible into a "paper pope." The Bible is only the result of the Word of God. We can experience the return of the Word of God in the here and now, the perpetual return of the actual, living, indisputable Word of God that makes possible the act of witnessing, but we should never think of the Bible as any sort of talisman or oracle constantly at our disposal that we need only open and read to be in relation to the Word of God and God Himself." (Jacques Ellul - Living Faith: Belief and Doubt in a Perilous World.Harper and Row San Francisco, 1983. pg. 191)

"The purpose of all Scripture is to bear witness to Christ (John 5:39; 20:31). The Bible in itself is not the Word of God. The Word of God is a person (John 1:1). Neither does the Bible have life, power or light in itself any more than did the Jewish Torach. These attributes may be ascribed to the Bible only by virtue of its relationship to Him who isWord, Life, Power and Light. Life is not in the book, as the Pharisees supposed, but only in the Man of the book (John 5:39) (Brinsmead, Robert D., "A Freedom from Biblicism" in The Christian Verdict, Essay 14, 1984. Fallbrook: Verdict Publications. Pg. 12).

"The letter of Holy Scripture is like having a photograph of a person whom we wish to meet at the airport. The image in our hands is not the living person and cannot adequately portray his living reality. But it enables us to recognize the right person when we see him and prevents us from mistaking him for another person. So Scripture may help us recognize the Spirit of Jesus and keep us from embracing another spirit." (Robert D. Brinsmead, "The Necessity and Limits of Holy Scripture," The Christian Verdict, Essay 16, 1984. Fallbrook: Verdict Publications. Pg 5).

Axehead

dragonfly · Nov 9, 2012

Hello Axehead,

There is no new revelation that God will give that is not contained in Scripture already

Yes. But: without the Holy Spirit to give understanding, a great deal of revelation is (or may be) lost to the reader.

I can see that God, being anxious to communicate His heart to those who earnestly seek Him, may well give revelation to the individual, which comes to them in the context of their individual life, and may seem to them to be extremely special and pertinent; however there seems to be a tendancy in these days for the recipient to assume such revelation elevates them rather than God, and elevates their interpretation rather than God's real meaning.

Isaiah had the correct perspective, methinks:

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people [is] grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. 9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift [it] up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

The quotes in your last post, are excellent. Each one of them brings greater clarity to the importance of knowing 'the Word', personally.

Rex · Nov 9, 2012

dragonfly said:
Hello Axehead,

Yes. But: without the Holy Spirit to give understanding, a great deal of revelation is (or may be) lost to the reader.

I can see that God, being anxious to communicate His heart to those who earnestly seek Him, may well give revelation to the individual, which comes to them in the context of their individual life, and may seem to them to be extremely special and pertinent; however there seems to be a tendancy in these days for the recipient to assume such revelation elevates them rather than God, and elevates their interpretation rather than God's real meaning.

Isaiah had the correct perspective, methinks:

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people [is] grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. 9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift [it] up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

The quotes in your last post, are excellent. Each one of them brings greater clarity to the importance of knowing 'the Word', personally.

Very good point and thoughts.
Something else I see is at times "the anxious heart" as you said, causes divisions leading to a multitude of church's and Ideas. It's as though some receive these gifts and immediately believe that they need to share this experience and teach a teleology based on the particular flavor of personal experience, as well teach a reflection of how to walk, handle and touch in the power of the HS's leading. I'm of the opinion that this also leads to some being prideful, it stuns their growth as well, unwilling to move forward into maturity agreeing to no longer disagree on the elementary things, but would rather focus on details asking and contemplating endless questions about fundamentals. We all were born and lead into the knowledge of Christ threw the power of the HS. As Paul said, I come to knowing nothing but Christ crucified. That's not elementary, that's maturity he's speaking of.

Lastly as noted, it's the recipients view point. Just as we ourselves see the word and understand with the free gift of Christ, I don't feel compelled to have to comment on every topic and subject nor correct and clarify every detail. But rather in the love and grace that that has been given me I to love and grace others by complementing the truths, building up rather than tearing down. Perhaps at times being overly critical, or coming off as holyer than thou, This is not my intent but it has been pointed out "interpretation" the perception of the recipient is very important. We are all imperfect vessels delivering a message of perfection, Many times I simply use verse's, I dislike long explanations going on and on as though by many words my message might be better understood. In reality, IMO, it can have the opposite effect. I dislike church simply because it's a one way conversation, I prefer not to teach or share by a singular outward projection of myself. Rather I find every man a bit different and in conversation the necessary truths are drawn out. But in a forum those looking on, may, at times perceive things differently.

Your closing statement as well as the goal of all believers, a personal relationship.

Each one of them brings greater clarity to the importance of knowing 'the Word', personally.

God bless

mjrhealth · Nov 10, 2012

There is no new revelation that God will give that is not contained in Scripture already for the massesl.

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

God Has lots to say, but men have shut Him out, who need God when you have the bible and religion, as if they could replace Him.

In all His most amazing Love

neophyte · Nov 10, 2012

Jesus never left us a religious book , He left us with His One True Teaching Church [ Matt.16:15-19 ] [ 2 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:16 ] 1 Tim.3:14 ] To His apostles Jesus commanded this: [ Matt. 28:18-:20, Luke 10:16 ] [ John 20: 21 ]

mjrhealth · Nov 11, 2012

You will never convince Jesus. He gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth. But as I said who needs Him when you have religion.

In all His Love

neophyte · Nov 11, 2012

mjrhealth said:
You will never convince Jesus. He gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth. But as I said who needs Him when you have religion.

In all His Love

mjrhealth, but it's because the Christian Faith is a religion and not just a philosophy ,that there is need of religious 'authority".IF christianity were wholly the product of our minds and desires, there would be no need of an authority outside ourselves.If it consisted in each person's adapting an ideal to his or her's own personality, then one man's idea would be just as good as the next persons.It would be an unfair imposition for anyone to impose their private interpretation on another Christian who chose to disagree with that particular person.
But this is not Christianity. For Christianity is a revealed religion. It is to avoid conflicts of opinion and personal " religions" as you write about.Being that religion has been revealed by God then there 'must' be a religious authority. Being that it is from God given to mere-men, there must be authority, if no authority then you end up as you do within the numerous conflicting Protestant churches.

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