Mark of the Beast, or the Seal of God (long topic)

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Raeneske

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Seal of God or Mark of the Beast?

Quick little fact, keep this in mind. There are 404 verses in Revelation. Of those 404, 278 of the can be found almost word for word in other areas of the Bible. The Bible defines itself perfectly, okay? So....

The Seal of God -

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Revelation 7:3 KJV)

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 KJV)

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. (Revelation 14:1 KJV)

The Seal of God is marked in the foreheads of the recipients of God's seal.

Mark of the Beast:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7 KJV)

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:11 KJV)

And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. (Revelation 16:2 KJV)

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20 KJV)

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4 KJV)

So, we get the seal of God in our foreheads, and the Mark of the beast on our hands and forehead. So, is the mark going to be a literal mark? A tattoo? Maybe a card of some sort? A stamp on someone's forehead? Well, let's take a look what God's Word says about the forehead and the hands.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. (Deuteronomy 6:6-8 KJV)

They were to bind the words which God commanded them upon their hands and as the fronlets of their eyes, meaning forehead. Deuteronomy 6:25 says,

And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us. (Deuteronomy 6:25 KJV)

Next:

Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (Deuteronomy 11:18, 19 KJV)

The Words they were to lay up in their hearts and soul, were to be a sign upon their hands and foreheads. These words were to be a blessing to them - IF, they followed.

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. And it shall come to pass, when the Lord thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal. Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the Lord your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day. (Deuteronomy 11:26-32 KJV)

So now, we shall see a couple more verses about hands and foreheads.

Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the Lord did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt. (Exodus 13:7-9 KJV)

Again, God gave them a command, and obediance to this was to be a sign upon their foreheads and their hands.

And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem. And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt. (Exodus 13:15, 16 KJV)

Each and everytime God gave them words to lay upon their hearts, and commanded them to do certain things, it was a sign upon their hands and their foreheads. The expressions "frontlets of thine eyes" and "bind them upon thine hand" were always connected to obediance to the things which God had commanded. They had nothing to do with a literal, physical mark, placed upon their hands and their foreheads. The Scriptures are plain, there is a thus Saith the Lord.

So the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God are about something that God tells you to do, and something the Beast tells you. And as you can tell, they're going to oppose each other. The line will be clearly drawn in the end times, those who represent God in character and obediance, and those who represent Satan's character, and disobediance.

So that knowledge, we carry into the prophetic book of Revelation.
Revelation 14:1-5 ...

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Revelation 14:1-5 KJV)

So we see the 144,000 redeemed have the Father's name in their foreheads. They are redeemed from among men, and firstfruits unto God and the Lamb.

Revelation 14:6-7 …

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:6, 7 KJV)

The angel's message comes with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to Him. Worship Him who made heavens and earth. So the angels message tells us to worship God.

Revelation 14:8-11 ...

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:8-11 KJV)

Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Then follows the 3rd Angels message also comes, warning about if any worships the beast, the beasts image, and receives the mark shall be tormented with fire and brimstone.

So, the angel is telling us to worship God. But the beast power is getting worship too! This Beast (Daniel 7:23 shows a beast is a kingdom), wants to be worshipped, and even something is made in the image the beast, meaning like the beast. God deserves worship, but the beast demands worship. The Beast commands that it is reverenced the way it dictates. But what do the Saints of Jesus Christ do?

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12 KJV)

The Saints are found being obediant, with the faith of Jesus, and keeping the commandments of God. We know that from before, the Seal and Mark will be signs of obediance to either God or the Beast. The Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast will be made plainly known to all the human family. Not one person shall not have insufficient light and evidence to take their stand in obediance, or disobediance. This is the reason for the ourpouring of God's wrath upon those who accept the mark of the Beast. It will not be a literal mark or seal, but it shall be a sign of obediance to God or the Beast.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17 KJV)

Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (Philippians 3:17 KJV)

People were to be marked out, by their actions, how they walked. It was not a literal mark. Those who caused strife were to be marked as the disobediant ones causing divisions and offenses. In the end, those who act according to how the Beast dictates, and are obediant to the beast rather than God, will receive the mark of the Beast.They will be marked on their hands and foreheads - not literal marks.

Now, the angel tells us to worship God, and we see that the Beast also wants worship, and people shall receive the wrath of God for worshipping the Beast. And we also see that the Saints have the faith of Jesus AND keep the commandments of God. Yet the angel's message mentions a specific commandment within it's message. The command is given, and the words of that angel cannot be controverted. This is the command:

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:7 KJV)

The Angel is very plain here. Fear God, and give glory to him. The hour of his judgment has come. Then, the commandment specific command is given to the world, which some are unaware of, and some are willfully disobediant of, and some have yet to see it in it's full light. That angels message, can be found in one commandment, of God, which the Saints of Jesus keep.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (and Here is the angels message) For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11 KJV)

The Sabbath is in the angel's message, it's found in the commandment. Is the Sabbath also a sign of obediance? Yes!
Exodus 31:13-17

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:13-17 KJV)

It is a sign, it is in the Angel's message, and it's commandment. Revelation ties in all the pieces to show the World to "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy". And Yes, Christians are Israel. You are not born as an Israelite, but you are grafted into Israel after becoming a Christian.

Romans 11:16-24

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? (Romans 11:16-24 KJV)

You are grafted into natural Israel, you are a part of Israel. You are grafted in with the natural. Though we are Christ's followers, and his seed, we are also Abraham's seed, which Israel (physical) takes great pleasure in being.
Galatians 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29 KJV)

The gentiles and physical Israel were seperate at first. But what about now, after we are adopted into God's family? Was this ever prophecied to occur, that we would become Israel, his people?

And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God. (Hosea 2:23 KJV)

Do we not call God, our God? Is not the God of Israel, our God? We are now His people, we are Christ's seed, which is Abraham's seed, which is Israel. We are now grafted in among the Israelites, being not the natural branches, but of the wild tree, which was grafted into Israel.

And did you know, Spiritual Israel, that God commanded us to keep the Sabbath?

Hebrews4:4-9

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Hebrews 4:4-9 KJV)

If Jesus had given us rest, wouldn't he have also spoken of another day? Show me what day other than the Sabbath the Bible commands to be changed to the Sabbath. There isn't a single verse that shows it. And many people know this, but keep the tradition instead of the commandment. Even a lot of pastors. No, I do not mean to upset you, but there are WOLVES in sheeps clothing all over Christian churches nowadays. They do not care, they have their orders. The Bible says there therefore remains a rest to God's people. The word remains denotes the fact that we still have it. Now if we look at the word rest in the Strong's Concordance, we find out rest is Sabbatismos, which means, a keeping Sabbath.

We have to remember Christians, that if we break one commandment, then we break all of them. To reject the command of God, and to accept the command of the beast is to bring damnation upon yourself. Everyone shall be full warned. So, yes, it shall warrant eternal damnation rejecting this one command, and only respecting the other 9 commandments.

Do you try to worship God and God alone? Do you try not to worship idols? You're trying to keep the commandments. That is 2 out of 10. Are you going to say it's okay to take the Lord's name in vain, dishonour your parents, steal, lie, commit adultary, covet and murder?
We know it's not okay to do those things. That's 9 out of 10 commadments we're trying to keep Christians. James 2:10 however, shows that if we miss one, we are guilty of all.

James 2:14-20

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:14-20 KJV)

Works don't save anyone, please don't misunderstand. Works never saved any sinner. It is by grace we are saved, and not that of works. But, they are a sign who your God is. By watching one's fruit, their works, you can tell who their God is. By keeping the Sabbath, it is a sign between you and God, that you are His, and He is your God. As God said himself, and as the Angel says, worship God who made the heavens, earth, and all that in them is. Is it a perpetual sign between God and us. Works are fruits, they show the salvation God has given. You can tell a Christian from a non-Christian by their works, and not the movements of their lips. Claiming Christ as Lord means letting Him be Lord over your life, and letting Him tell you what to do. And His burden is easy.

Okay, so if that's the Seal, then there must be an equal mark of the beast. This needs another full topic, but I shall briefly explain the Beast:

In short, the woman riding the beast conglomerate on the 7 mountains (Rev 17:9) which are the Seven Hills of Rome, is the Vatican, the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is the only church and state (that's what a woman on a beast is, a church on a kindgom), that resides on this area, the 7hills of Rome. Yes, the Vatican, strangely, admits this herself.

"It is within the city of Rome, called The City on Seven Hills, that the entire area of Vatican State Proper is now confined" The Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 529.

Does this power have their own Sign betwen them and their people? I'm going to give you some quotes, and i'll leave it to you to put two and two together.

"Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles..... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?"
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath."

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"
"Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, by Peter Geiermann, 50.

"Sunday is our mark of authority..... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

So let's recap everything. The words which God commands are to be a sign upon our foreheads and hands. So likewise, the Beast power will do the same thing. The Angel's message, is derived from the 4th commandment. This is then confirmed by saying the Saints have the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God. This is also confirmed, by Exodus 31, that the Sabbath Day is in fact a sign. The Beast power wants worship in the same way God does. The Beast then counterfeits the fourth commandment, and makes their own Sabbath commandment. Now Spiritual Israel, which is us, being grafted into Israel, is coming to the last and final test, Satan has tried to force government authority, to condemn God's physical Israel in the past. And very soon, Satan is going to try to force God's people to break God's laws again. If you need proof he's ever done that, check out the book of Esther, or even Daniel. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednago chose to die, than break commandment number two. This test that is hurtling towards us, is not without proof. There are SCORES of articles out there, and all VERY RECENT. I know not if I can actually link articles on this page, but I have no problem giving you dozens of articles showing you they are chasing this command. You may PM me, if you wish to see the many, many articles proving this as fact.
 

Adstar

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The Seal of God is a Spiritual Mark

The Mark of the Beast is a Physical Mark

For only when one has the Physical Mark of the Beast shall one be able to buy and sell anything. So we know the Mark of the Beast cannot be a certain form or worship because these days people with different forms of worship can still buy and sell, such as catholics and seven day adventists.

The scriptures clearly states that when the Mark of the beast comes those who do not have it will be unable to buy and sell.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

revturmoil

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The Seal of God is a Spiritual Mark

The Mark of the Beast is a Physical Mark

For only when one has the Physical Mark of the Beast shall one be able to buy and sell anything. So we know the Mark of the Beast cannot be a certain form or worship because these days people with different forms of worship can still buy and sell, such as catholics and seven day adventists.

The scriptures clearly states that when the Mark of the beast comes those who do not have it will be unable to buy and sell.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

And I keep telling you guys that the mark of the beast will be limited to the ten nation Islamic empire of the beast. It's not a worldwide mark. It's only imposed upon Muslim's. It may extend outside his kingdom but only in areas heavily dominated by Islam. Western countries I doubt will be affected.
 

Raeneske

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Seventh Day Adventism again I see.

I respectfully ask that you do not call me a Seventh-Day Adventist. I am not a Seventh-Day Adventist.

The Seal of God is a Spiritual Mark

The Mark of the Beast is a Physical Mark

For only when one has the Physical Mark of the Beast shall one be able to buy and sell anything. So we know the Mark of the Beast cannot be a certain form or worship because these days people with different forms of worship can still buy and sell, such as catholics and seven day adventists.

The scriptures clearly states that when the Mark of the beast comes those who do not have it will be unable to buy and sell.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

However, what the scriptures do not state is that it is a literal mark. If you have seen the verses I put above, it shows that to lay the words which God had said into their hearts was a sign upon their forehead and hands. How can the words laid upon their hearts be a literal, physical, sign? (Deuternomy 11:18, explicitly).

Again, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist.

And when the world receives the Mark of the Beast, it won’t be “different” forms of worship. They are all accepting the same exact thing.

And I keep telling you guys that the mark of the beast will be limited to the ten nation Islamic empire of the beast. It's not a worldwide mark. It's only imposed upon Muslim's. It may extend outside his kingdom but only in areas heavily dominated by Islam. Western countries I doubt will be affected.

The Angels message goes out to the world, every nation, tongue, kindred, etc in Revelation 14:6. If everyone is to be taught and have knowledge, and the world is to hear this warning with a loud voice, it has to do with the world. Why warn the world not to receive the Mark of the Beast, if the entire world must not deal with it?
 

revturmoil

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The Angels message goes out to the world, every nation, tongue, kindred, etc in Revelation 14:6. If everyone is to be taught and have knowledge, and the world is to hear this warning with a loud voice, it has to do with the world. Why warn the world not to receive the Mark of the Beast, if the entire world must not deal with it?

You're taking this way out of context. Verse 7 says "fear God" for the hour of his judgment is come. It's not a warning about the mark!
 

Raeneske

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You're taking this way out of context. Verse 7 says "fear God" for the hour of his judgment is come. It's not a warning about the mark!

Read a couple verses later to see what the other angel proclaims. One angel does not come down and proclaim a message for the entire earth, and then shut up the message concerning the Mark of the Beast to a specific area in the world.
 

veteran

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The three angel's Messages aren't that difficult to get right in the Revelation timeline.


Rev 14:6-12
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him That made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

First angel:
worship God The Creator through His Son Jesus Christ Who died on the cross to offer us His Salvation, for that is The Gospel. This does not mean this angel LITERALLY proclaims this himself to the nations on earth at that point. What have yal missed about God's "two witnesses" of Rev.11 that prophesy for 1260 days, the tribulation time? What do you think they will be proclaiming on earth against the beast and his beast kingdom? The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's how the world will 'hear' The Gospel, and by those of Christ's elect who are delivered up to give that Testimony also by The Holy Spirit, as per Mark 13. Those are the timeline events this first angel symbolically 'represents'. So thinking this angel will literally be the one to do that preaching on earth is to miss the whole point of this Message being given at this point in Rev.14.

What's the very next event? The END...


8 And there followed another angel, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Second angel:
proclaims The END, tribulation over, Babylon fallen


9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(KJV)

Third angel:
warning against and result of taking the mark of the beast and worshipping the beast and his image

Thusly:
First: admonition to worship God
Second: destruction
Third: admonition of warning
 

dismas

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The mark of the Beast is not Sunday worship.
In the tribulation, there will be NO sabbath:

Rev 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

In other words, there will be no Sabbath rest of any sort. Which means the tribulation is "Christian" (Christ broke the Sabbath requirement), Muslim, or Atheist, or something else.

@Veteran,

Why would the angels warn people to not take the mark if Babylon falls at the very end of the Tribulation? That doesn't make sense.
The angels come to warn people, then Babylon falls, then the mark of the beast is offered- meaning there is at least 3.5 years left. There are multiple fallings of babylon. Not just the final one.
 

Adstar

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And I keep telling you guys that the mark of the beast will be limited to the ten nation Islamic empire of the beast. It's not a worldwide mark. It's only imposed upon Muslim's. It may extend outside his kingdom but only in areas heavily dominated by Islam. Western countries I doubt will be affected.

I believe you are wrong in this assesment.

The Mark of the beast will be given to all whom worship the image of the beast. Anyone Christian who refuses will be beheaded. The following scripture makes it clear that the people beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast are followers of the Messiah Jesus, They are not muslims.

Revelation 20
[sup]4 [/sup]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[sup]5 [/sup]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

However, what the scriptures do not state is that it is a literal mark. If you have seen the verses I put above, it shows that to lay the words which God had said into their hearts was a sign upon their forehead and hands. How can the words laid upon their hearts be a literal, physical, sign? (Deuternomy 11:18, explicitly).

Again, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist.

And when the world receives the Mark of the Beast, it won’t be “different” forms of worship. They are all accepting the same exact thing.

I am not the poster who called you a seventh day adventist. That was another poster.

Yes other scriptures may talk of a symbolic acceptance of false doctrines or religious practices as being laid upon their heads or hearts. But the Scripture that deals with the Mark of the beast must be read in context of the scriptures around it. And they tell clearly that a person will be unable to buy or sell anything without having the Mark. This is not a symbolic Mark but one that is physical and identifiable in a trading system.

We have already seen the electronic money infrustructure built. So all that is needed now is the transfer of the identification device from Cards to the human body.


All Praise the Ancient of Days
 

Raeneske

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The mark of the Beast is not Sunday worship.
In the tribulation, there will be NO sabbath:

Rev 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

In other words, there will be no Sabbath rest of any sort. Which means the tribulation is "Christian" (Christ broke the Sabbath requirement), Muslim, or Atheist, or something else.

@Veteran,

Why would the angels warn people to not take the mark if Babylon falls at the very end of the Tribulation? That doesn't make sense.
The angels come to warn people, then Babylon falls, then the mark of the beast is offered- meaning there is at least 3.5 years left. There are multiple fallings of babylon. Not just the final one.

That is completely out of context my friend. When referring to them, it says they have no rest, day nor night. It is talking about the "smoke of their torment ascendeth forever". That is not referring to a Sabbath, as there is universal proof that the Sabbath day is what these government officials are after.

Also, to state Christ "broke" the Sabbath commandment, is to call Him a liar when he said, "Think not I come to destroy the law or the prophets". And to say Jesus actually broke the commandment, means he's not sinless. And that is to side with the Pharisees, who accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath.


The three angel's Messages aren't that difficult to get right in the Revelation timeline.


Rev 14:6-12
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him That made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

First angel:
worship God The Creator through His Son Jesus Christ Who died on the cross to offer us His Salvation, for that is The Gospel. This does not mean this angel LITERALLY proclaims this himself to the nations on earth at that point. What have yal missed about God's "two witnesses" of Rev.11 that prophesy for 1260 days, the tribulation time? What do you think they will be proclaiming on earth against the beast and his beast kingdom? The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's how the world will 'hear' The Gospel, and by those of Christ's elect who are delivered up to give that Testimony also by The Holy Spirit, as per Mark 13. Those are the timeline events this first angel symbolically 'represents'. So thinking this angel will literally be the one to do that preaching on earth is to miss the whole point of this Message being given at this point in Rev.14.

What's the very next event? The END...


8 And there followed another angel, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Second angel:
proclaims The END, tribulation over, Babylon fallen


9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(KJV)

Third angel:
warning against and result of taking the mark of the beast and worshipping the beast and his image

Thusly:
First: admonition to worship God
Second: destruction
Third: admonition of warning


The third angels message is to unite with the other angels messages of Revelation. There are those who have yet to hear any angel's message. There are those who have not had the truth placed in the proper light. Thus, they will be lead to accept the first and second angels message, along with the third angel's message.
 

veteran

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The third angels message is to unite with the other angels messages of Revelation. There are those who have yet to hear any angel's message. There are those who have not had the truth placed in the proper light. Thus, they will be lead to accept the first and second angels message, along with the third angel's message.

The messages of the three angels in Rev.14 are 'distinct' messages given apart from the other angels with the trumpets and vials. The three of Rev.14 is to serve as a quick warning, like a main point summary from tribulation to Christ's coming. It's to be a reminder mainly of what was given prior. And the main events are 1) tribulation upon the saints and the deceived but to include an outpouring of The Gospel Message to all the world just prior to the end, 2) endtime Babylon's desctruction at Christ's coming, and 3) the shame in front of Christ of those who fell away to worship the dragon and that took his mark.
 

Raeneske

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The messages of the three angels in Rev.14 are 'distinct' messages given apart from the other angels with the trumpets and vials. The three of Rev.14 is to serve as a quick warning, like a main point summary from tribulation to Christ's coming. It's to be a reminder mainly of what was given prior. And the main events are 1) tribulation upon the saints and the deceived but to include an outpouring of The Gospel Message to all the world just prior to the end, 2) endtime Babylon's desctruction at Christ's coming, and 3) the shame in front of Christ of those who fell away to worship the dragon and that took his mark.

The First angels message started sounding around 1844. When many millions of people heard the message to Fear God, and give Him glory because the hour of his judgement had come. They are distinct, but they are as one. They are to unite together.
 

veteran

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The First angels message started sounding around 1844. When many millions of people heard the message to Fear God, and give Him glory because the hour of his judgement had come. They are distinct, but they are as one. They are to unite together.

The first angel's message is for the tribulation time, which definitely did NOT start back in 1844. You're listening to Ellen White who set prophetic dates for endtime events which FAILED. I say this, and I actually like a lot of her ideas she wrote.

@Veteran,

Why would the angels warn people to not take the mark if Babylon falls at the very end of the Tribulation? That doesn't make sense.
The angels come to warn people, then Babylon falls, then the mark of the beast is offered- meaning there is at least 3.5 years left. There are multiple fallings of babylon. Not just the final one.

Read it again. You're getting the event context of that 3rd message out of order.


Rev 14:9-13
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

When is that event of taking the mark? DURING the tribulation period. The context is IF... anyone does that when the mark of the beast comes, then...

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

... the above is what will happen to them when Christ does return, and once He has returned this further will happen...

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

... they will be tormented and have no rest day nor night.


12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
(KJV)

What timing do you think the above two 12th and 13th verses are? Tribulation timing.

We are not to forget the end timeline order of events our Lord already established in other Books and in the previous Revelation chapters. We're supposed to already have a certain amount of it down by the time we come here to Rev.14.
 

Raeneske

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The first angel's message is for the tribulation time, which definitely did NOT start back in 1844. You're listening to Ellen White who set prophetic dates for endtime events which FAILED. I say this, and I actually like a lot of her ideas she wrote.



Read it again. You're getting the event context of that 3rd message out of order.


Rev 14:9-13
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

When is that event of taking the mark? DURING the tribulation period. The context is IF... anyone does that when the mark of the beast comes, then...

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

... the above is what will happen to them when Christ does return, and once He has returned this further will happen...

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

... they will be tormented and have no rest day nor night.


12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
(KJV)

What timing do you think the above two 12th and 13th verses are? Tribulation timing.

We are not to forget the end timeline order of events our Lord already established in other Books and in the previous Revelation chapters. We're supposed to already have a certain amount of it down by the time we come here to Rev.14.

She did not set a prophetic end time date. Yes, in 1844, they believed that's when Jesus Christ would come. But they got "cleansing the sanctuary" wrong. They thought that cleansing the sanctuary meant the earthly sanctuary. But this is an error. If you read Hebrews, you'll see that there is actually a Sanctuary in Heaven. It was cleansed in 1844. And then the prophetic words of Revelation came, "Thou must prophecy again."
 

Rex

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As they say, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Kids say the darnedest things. But only if your listening. :)
 

veteran

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She did not set a prophetic end time date. Yes, in 1844, they believed that's when Jesus Christ would come. But they got "cleansing the sanctuary" wrong. They thought that cleansing the sanctuary meant the earthly sanctuary. But this is an error. If you read Hebrews, you'll see that there is actually a Sanctuary in Heaven. It was cleansed in 1844. And then the prophetic words of Revelation came, "Thou must prophecy again."

The subject is the sanctuary being cleansed because of its being trodden, and sufferring abominations per the Dan.8:13 verse. That's about the 3rd temple to be built in our days that The LORD will replace with His when He comes. The heavenly sanctuary does not suffer an abomination idol setup in it.
 

Endtime

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Seventh Day Adventism again I see.

The spirit of the Accuser again I see.
So that is what SDA stands for. I have no Idea what they as a collective believe. Sounds like they have you writhing and vomiting though. Wonder if they do exorcisms?

The Seal of God is a Spiritual Mark

The Mark of the Beast is a Physical Mark

For only when one has the Physical Mark of the Beast shall one be able to buy and sell anything. So we know the Mark of the Beast cannot be a certain form or worship because these days people with different forms of worship can still buy and sell, such as catholics and seven day adventists.

The scriptures clearly states that when the Mark of the beast comes those who do not have it will be unable to buy and sell.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

The seal of God is His Spirit with power. The mark of the beast is your signature.
 

Raeneske

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The subject is the sanctuary being cleansed because of its being trodden, and sufferring abominations per the Dan.8:13 verse. That's about the 3rd temple to be built in our days that The LORD will replace with His when He comes. The heavenly sanctuary does not suffer an abomination idol setup in it.

Daniel 8:13-14 shows the timeframe that all those prophecies occur within. 1)The daily Sacrifice & 2)The Transgression of Desolation & 3)To give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot. And then verse 14 shows how long all that occurs within, and then at the end of the 2300 days (years) the Sanctuary was to be cleansed.
 

veteran

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The spirit of the Accuser again I see.
So that is what SDA stands for. I have no Idea what they as a collective believe. Sounds like they have you writhing and vomiting though. Wonder if they do exorcisms?

why don't you ask them, since you're obviously allied with their doctrines, as many others that come here are.

Although I have friends that are SDA, their doctrines that originate from within a 'small group' set them up as just another cult among Christianity, one of many today.

Daniel 8:13-14 shows the timeframe that all those prophecies occur within. 1)The daily Sacrifice & 2)The Transgression of Desolation & 3)To give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot. And then verse 14 shows how long all that occurs within, and then at the end of the 2300 days (years) the Sanctuary was to be cleansed.



Dan 8:11-14
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

The previous verses associated with the 2300 days go with it.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

How long until what?
a. daily sacrifice
b. transgression of desolation ("abomination of desolation" idol setup in the temple)
c. sanctuary and host trodden (direct association with Rev.11:1-2 about the 42 months)

Thus the period is about the time of the daily sacrifices, and then the abomination idol setup, and then the period the Gentiles tread Jerusalem for 42 months per Rev.11:1-2. What ENDS all that? Christ's second coming, for that 42 months of Rev.11:1-2 is the same period as the 1260 days of Rev.11:3 about God's two witnesses.

Thusly, from the time of the daily sacrifice is going on, all the way until the time of Christ's second coming...

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
(KJV)

The cleansing of the sanctuary is NOT given as PART of the Dan.8:13 events. Nor can anyone try to add it to the Dan.8:13 verse. The answer to Dan.8:13 is given FIRST (2300 days). And then the idea of the cleansing is mentioned after that.

It means from the time of Christ's coming to end the trodding back to the time of daily sacrifices = 2300 days. Per Rev.11:1-2 the Gentiles tread Jerusalem for 42 months (same as 1260 days). That IS the tribulation period, the same "time, times, and an half" given to the finish per the Dan.12:7 Scripture.

Daniel's "one week" equals two 1260 day periods per the Dan.9:27 verse. And the two periods equal 2520 days total. So 2300 days back from the end of the whole means 2520 minus 2300 = 220 days. The 220 days is about the time of the daily sacrifice going on. 220 minus the first 1260 day period of Dan.9:27 leaves 1040 days until the false one comes to end the sacrifice and place the abomination that makes desolate.