I was referring to 2,000 years of Christian beliefs (teaching).For example. Pastor Benny Hinn says that there is nothing wrong with being insanely rich. I say that it is wrong. We both can find Bible verses showing that our statement is right. So, who's correct? Well, one thing we can do is take the 2,000 years of Christian beliefs and infer what is correct. Well, that's what I did with the Gap Theory. And I find it incorrect.
The Gap Therory
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Everyone teaches something and that was my point with those doctrines. False ones last a long time, that's nothing new. The majority of man has never really been right in the Scriptures.Well, your choice, but I'll never base my belief on any tradition. No tradition, man, pastor or anything else will stand between us and the throne on that day.My point is that your belief is your belief, but if you're going to bring it to the discussion/debate/arguing table, just be ready to defend it.
Wakka may I ask you a question?Who did Cain marry if Adam and Eve are the first two people on EarthGenesis 4:16-17 - And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.Was it his sister?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
The gap theory is just a theory to attempt to redefine the original Biblical structure with a newer evolutionist ideals. (eg. millsions of years, fossils, and the ice age). The Gap theory coincides with the Pre-Adamic theory. And it all was thought up by Thomas Chalmers (1780-1847).Revelations 22:18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:Now that that's said. Let's get to the point. The gap theory states that the Lord remade the heavens and the earth. Let's turn to Exodus.Exodus 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.The Lord made the heavens and the earth, and did NOT remake anything! That includes man.Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:It states that though Adam, came sin. And because of sin, man has the ability to die. If there was no sin in the Pre-Adamic world, then how would there have been death?Luke 3:38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.We are all born through Adam, and he is born through God. There are no other people.It is also stated that there was a flood that wiped out the race of soulless men. (Yes, they believe that the race of men were soulless.) Now this flood was a world wide flood, and it was called the Lucifirian Flood. After Lucifer. How could there be a world wide flood if the only world wide flood was made by God.Now that part about the earth being formless and void. It wasn't that way because of punishment. It was that way because God wasn't finished yet.Jeremiah 4:23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.Also heavens had no light
... And the rough translation of Without Form and Void are desolate and uninhabited.Now it was dark, but it wasn't the darkness as when you think of evil. Or spiritual darkness.Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I have no problem with the gap theory or the day-age theory as interpretations of Genesis 1, but I take issue with the idea that there was a civilization on earth before it was void and without form. Namely because there is no scripture to support it.
God is light and cannot create anything in a less than perfect state, so a newly created earth from the hand of God shouldn't have been without form and void, and shrouded in darkness.
This is only true if God prefers to create things in a fully formed state. All Genesis 1:2 says is that the earth had not been formed into what it would be and that there were no inhabitants (formless and void, or in the Hebrew tohu vevohu). Who is to say that God doesn't like to build things up and do things in steps? Is a lump of clay any less perfect then a jar filled with water?Psalms 104:30 doesn't actually say that the spirit was renewing the earth. If you look at this entire section of scripture, you will a patter. The psalmist is describing how humans depend on God (verse 27). He rights what God does and what our reaction is and then he rights what God does after that.Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psa 104:30)God sends forth his Spirit and we are created, then he renews the face of the earth. The renewing is mentioned after the creation. Also, it doesn't mention hovering over the waters.I do not doubt that Angels were created before man, but there is no indication where they were created. What does sin have to do with a pre-creation week civilization? Yes, Satan sinned but that doesn't mean that he and the rest of the angels were created on the earth.
God is light and cannot create anything in a less than perfect state, so a newly created earth from the hand of God shouldn't have been without form and void, and shrouded in darkness.
This is only true if God prefers to create things in a fully formed state. All Genesis 1:2 says is that the earth had not been formed into what it would be and that there were no inhabitants (formless and void, or in the Hebrew tohu vevohu). Who is to say that God doesn't like to build things up and do things in steps? Is a lump of clay any less perfect then a jar filled with water?Psalms 104:30 doesn't actually say that the spirit was renewing the earth. If you look at this entire section of scripture, you will a patter. The psalmist is describing how humans depend on God (verse 27). He rights what God does and what our reaction is and then he rights what God does after that.Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psa 104:30)God sends forth his Spirit and we are created, then he renews the face of the earth. The renewing is mentioned after the creation. Also, it doesn't mention hovering over the waters.I do not doubt that Angels were created before man, but there is no indication where they were created. What does sin have to do with a pre-creation week civilization? Yes, Satan sinned but that doesn't mean that he and the rest of the angels were created on the earth.
tim_from_pa
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I have no problem with the gap theory or the day-age theory as interpretations of Genesis 1, but I take issue with the idea that there was a civilization on earth before it was void and without form. Namely because there is no scripture to support it.
One of the passages of scripture that deal with the earth before the destruction is Jeremiah 4:23-26: I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.There was no "man", or Adam is the literal. He was not around yet. Yet, we read of this catastrophe and beforehand it was compared to a fruitful place with cities. We must then wonder who or what creatures lived there before this destruction took place. In any bible footnote, you will see this passage alluded to when reading Genesis version "without form and void".
One of the passages of scripture that deal with the earth before the destruction is Jeremiah 4:23-26: I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.There was no "man", or Adam is the literal. He was not around yet. Yet, we read of this catastrophe and beforehand it was compared to a fruitful place with cities. We must then wonder who or what creatures lived there before this destruction took place. In any bible footnote, you will see this passage alluded to when reading Genesis version "without form and void".
If you read the entire chapter you will see that this was not a discription of what was, but what was going to be when Israel was taken into captivity. The land would be desolate, the people gone, and the cities in ruin. This is exactly what happened.
The gap theory is just a theory to attempt to redefine the original Biblical structure with a newer evolutionist ideals. (eg. millsions of years, fossils, and the ice age). The Gap theory coincides with the Pre-Adamic theory. And it all was thought up by Thomas Chalmers (1780-1847).
Where exactly do you get your history from? Wikipedia? You've got a lot to learn my boy, that Gap theory is much older than that and it is indeed in the Bible. I've already shown once such gap that has conveniently been ignored by those who don't agree with/ don't see the gap theory. I can provide other examples if need be. It's quite easy to do so.Ignoring the discussion on the Hebrew word meanings, which is fairly well covered in our lesson on the Three Earth Ages, we're left with one very important verse:Isaiah 45:18-19
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
The word for vain is the very same word, tohuw, used in Genesis 1:2!As for the Luciferian flood, sure II Peter documents it quite well:II Peter 3:5-7
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
This certainly isn't talking about the flood in Noah's time. This is the katabole, the overthrow of Satan talked about in Revelation 12. The world perished, not just flooded out killing the living species except for those on the ark.
Where exactly do you get your history from? Wikipedia? You've got a lot to learn my boy, that Gap theory is much older than that and it is indeed in the Bible. I've already shown once such gap that has conveniently been ignored by those who don't agree with/ don't see the gap theory. I can provide other examples if need be. It's quite easy to do so.Ignoring the discussion on the Hebrew word meanings, which is fairly well covered in our lesson on the Three Earth Ages, we're left with one very important verse:Isaiah 45:18-19
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
The word for vain is the very same word, tohuw, used in Genesis 1:2!As for the Luciferian flood, sure II Peter documents it quite well:II Peter 3:5-7
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
This certainly isn't talking about the flood in Noah's time. This is the katabole, the overthrow of Satan talked about in Revelation 12. The world perished, not just flooded out killing the living species except for those on the ark.
I was talking about gap creationism and not the over throw of satan. Gap Creationism was thought up by Thomas Chalmers. And no I didn't get that info from wikipedia. I got it from personal studying.
I was talking about gap creationism and not the over throw of satan.
So was I; these two things go hand in hand. Do you even know anything about what you're talking about besides that which you read on websites? I'm starting to think you don't. This statement proves it.
So was I; these two things go hand in hand. Do you even know anything about what you're talking about besides that which you read on websites? I'm starting to think you don't. This statement proves it.
tim_from_pa
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If you read the entire chapter you will see that this was not a discription of what was, but what was going to be when Israel was taken into captivity. The land would be desolate, the people gone, and the cities in ruin. This is exactly what happened.
I did read the entire chapter, and I read the bible front-to-back and then some many times over as well as the Apocrypha and some other esoteric books.That passage in Jeremiah is a flashback, and the Hebraic structure is the same as that in Genesis. This is why theologians reference that passage.Sometimes we do not have the entire story just reading "face value". Understanding scripture is like the layers of an onion. On the surface, it means what it says as you point out, but there are deeper levels and spiritual symbolism as well.
If you read the entire chapter you will see that this was not a discription of what was, but what was going to be when Israel was taken into captivity. The land would be desolate, the people gone, and the cities in ruin. This is exactly what happened.
I did read the entire chapter, and I read the bible front-to-back and then some many times over as well as the Apocrypha and some other esoteric books.That passage in Jeremiah is a flashback, and the Hebraic structure is the same as that in Genesis. This is why theologians reference that passage.Sometimes we do not have the entire story just reading "face value". Understanding scripture is like the layers of an onion. On the surface, it means what it says as you point out, but there are deeper levels and spiritual symbolism as well.
Satan was overthrown in both. In the Gap Creationism Satan was ruling soulless men. But Satan rebelled and God punished Satan with a world flood. Those men were pre-adamic. And this whole theory isn't true, and goes against the biblical teachings.The other gap theory, where there is just a gap in time. Nothingness for a period of millions of years. That one I'm not to sure about. But I still go by the old 6 thousand year rule.I forgot to mention that Gap Creationism also makes the earth millions of years old.Now Denver. Please don't judge me. You don't know me. I've done enough studying to know that Thomas Chalmers thought up of the concepts. Then it was carried out by other men and made into a doctrine. It's even written in the Scolfield bible.
(Wakka)
Satan was overthrown in both. In the Gap Creationism Satan was ruling soulless men. But Satan rebelled and God punished Satan with a world flood. Those men were pre-adamic. And this whole theory isn't true, and goes against the biblical teachings.
You got to be kidding Wakka, every true believer in Christ knows that every man has a soul. There is no such thing as a soulless man. Hey if you don't want to believe there was a flood before Noah's flood, that is your choice, but I don't think you will either change me, Kriss, nor Denver's view cause they study the Hebrew and Greek.(Wakka)
The other gap theory, where there is just a gap in time. Nothingness for a period of millions of years. That one I'm not to sure about. But I still go by the old 6 thousand year rule.I forgot to mention that Gap Creationism also makes the earth millions of years old.
Then how and where can we put Job 40:15-18?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Satan was overthrown in both. In the Gap Creationism Satan was ruling soulless men. But Satan rebelled and God punished Satan with a world flood. Those men were pre-adamic. And this whole theory isn't true, and goes against the biblical teachings.
You got to be kidding Wakka, every true believer in Christ knows that every man has a soul. There is no such thing as a soulless man. Hey if you don't want to believe there was a flood before Noah's flood, that is your choice, but I don't think you will either change me, Kriss, nor Denver's view cause they study the Hebrew and Greek.(Wakka)
The other gap theory, where there is just a gap in time. Nothingness for a period of millions of years. That one I'm not to sure about. But I still go by the old 6 thousand year rule.I forgot to mention that Gap Creationism also makes the earth millions of years old.
Then how and where can we put Job 40:15-18?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
I was originally arguing against Gap Creationism/Pre-Adamic doctrine. Of course all men have God given souls. Everyone is just confused. I was just giving some insight of what those two doctrines are. And I am not preaching them!
I hope you are beginning to understand better WakkaJag is absoultly right here I dont know where you got this souless man ideabut there is no such thing . The body is the house of the soul without a soul there is no living body.
Hey, I just joined this forum and I gotta tell ya, if this thread is any indication of what the forums are about, them I'm gonna love it.I thought I was gonna be meeting a whole bunch of 6,000 year old Earth creationists, and to my surprise.... Gap theory believers... awesome.
Well welcome TalkingDonkeyIf you think this site is like most others on the web hopefully you are in for a big surpriseWe try to follow the Gods Word rather than mens words. Not sure we always suceed
but you will find more here then the standard.Salvation and repentance doctrine.
interesting, but i agree with jbar=if i cant prove it by the bible=i aint going to worry my perty little head over it. kriss you seem to be real intelligent= sometimes i can keep up, sometimes not with you.
tim_from_pa
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Hey, I just joined this forum and I gotta tell ya, if this thread is any indication of what the forums are about, them I'm gonna love it.I thought I was gonna be meeting a whole bunch of 6,000 year old Earth creationists, and to my surprise.... Gap theory believers... awesome.
Well, I not only believe all that, but I also like to talk about the lost ten tribes of Israel---- and other "mysterious" topics. I put mysterious in quotes because it is hidden from the average person (or Christian for that matter) but if one digs a little, such answers can be found but at first there is an enjoyable esoteric atmosphere about it.BTW, I love your handle. That old Balaam really had quite an animal there. I find it humorous that God used such an animal to correct a so-called prophet! LOL. Welcome aboard.
Hey, I just joined this forum and I gotta tell ya, if this thread is any indication of what the forums are about, them I'm gonna love it.I thought I was gonna be meeting a whole bunch of 6,000 year old Earth creationists, and to my surprise.... Gap theory believers... awesome.
Well, I not only believe all that, but I also like to talk about the lost ten tribes of Israel---- and other "mysterious" topics. I put mysterious in quotes because it is hidden from the average person (or Christian for that matter) but if one digs a little, such answers can be found but at first there is an enjoyable esoteric atmosphere about it.BTW, I love your handle. That old Balaam really had quite an animal there. I find it humorous that God used such an animal to correct a so-called prophet! LOL. Welcome aboard.
I dont know anything that doesnt come from God All wisdom comes from God if he gives me eyes to see or ears to hear I share it with all you. I do not know when someone is right or wrong only God knows thatI only know what God shows me in his word. Futhermore this site is about Gods Word not me.Id appreciate leaving it that way.If its Gods truth then go ahead keep firing at me his truth is unshakable I wear the armour of the Lord. Do you?
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