What does it mean to be Born Again

I haven't read the whole thing but I see the finger prints.
It's a great question, I hope you find an answer.

BTW Just how high are you? are you a prophet if not who is your prophet?

Justin Mangonel said:

​

Firstborn From the Dead​

(tabernacle theology series)​

by​

Justin Mangonel​

In the book of Revelation we read,

"Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth."

Revelations 1:5​

Jesus Christ was the first to be resurrected and glorified. Jesus is described as being the "firstborn from the dead". In the book of Colossians God states:

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Colossians 1:15​

Young's Literal translation reads:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,"

In the book of John we also read,

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"[font=Verdana'] [/font]

John 3:3-7,10​

Jesus said that we must be born again and in the book of Revelation we see that Jesus is the first born from the dead. Therefore, I suggest to you that the term "born again" refers to the resurrection from the dead.

Why do we need to be "born again"? If we follow out the analogy that Jesus gave I believe the reason for being born again becomes clear. We are born once into this creation through the will of the flesh. Likewise, we must be "born again" into the new creation of God, i.e. The New Heavens and New Earth, through the will of the Spirit. In other words, the Holy Spirit that dwells in you quickens your natural body through the resurrection of the dead and you are “born again.” As it is written,

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

Romans 8:11​

Currently, many Christians believe that when they confess Christ as their Lord and savior that they are born again. However, the salvation experience is more akin to conception rather than birth. Just as a baby must be conceived in this creation and gestate for a certain period of time so to must a Christian be conceived and gestate for a certain period of time in the womb of the church before being born again into the next creation. When the fullness of time comes we are born again through resurrection and glorification of our bodies into the New Heavens and New Earth.

In the natural your physical body is born into this creation and so to your spiritual body also needs to be born again into the new creation. A person needs a body suitably adapted to this creation to function properly within it. Likewise, you need a body suitably adapted to function in the world to come. An imperfect body cannot exist in a perfect world. In 1 Corinthians we read,

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

1 Corinthians 15:50-52​

Jesus thought that the teaching of being born again should be obvious to Nicodemus and he wondered how a Pharisee, a master in Israel, could be ignorant of this truth.

God has been talking about a new creation since the Old Testament. In Isaiah God states,

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

Isaiah 65:17​

Again we read,


"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."

Isaiah 66:22​

The doctrine of the New Heavens and New Earth is a fundamental teaching of the New Testament Church. Sadly, like so many other fundamental teachings, it was lost to the church during the dark ages. Happily, God is again bringing the revelation of the new creation back to the forefront. I believe that God is restoring this truth to His people so that they can receive clarity in other areas of scripture. Many basic teachings, such as being born again, can only be properly understood in relationship to the world to come.

Likewise, the doctrines of the resurrection and rapture also come into full relief when considered in light of the New Heavens and New Earth. Peter revealed,

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"[font=Verdana'] [/font]

2 Peter 3:10-12​

And in the book of Revelation John confirms,

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Revelation 21:1​

And Paul prophesies,

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18​

We learn that this present creation will pass away and a New Heavens and New Earth will be created. We will be taken from here and put there in order to escape destruction. Jesus spoke about the New Heavens and New Earth in John when He said,

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

John 14:1-3​

The underlying reason for the resurrection of the dead and the rapture is simply that we must be taken out of this present creation in order to be placed in a new one. Therefore the dead must rise, i.e. be resurrected, and those which remain alive must be taken out, i.e. be caught away. If we are not taken out of this creation we will perish along with it.

God has purposed in His heart to judge sin through fire. This is the reason that Hell is a lake of fire and why this present creation will likewise be burnt up. We, being the part of the new creation of God, must be removed from this old creation and placed in the New Heavens and New Earth in order to be "saved" from the fiery fate of this world. The purpose of salvation is to accomplish this task. Through the blood of Jesus Christ our sin is washed away and we become worthy to partake of the world to come. Do you still doubt there is a world to come? It is written,

"And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

Mark 10:29,30​

Some, who dispute the doctrine of Holy Spirit baptism and the sign of speaking in other tongues, point to the lack of clear statements in some of the passages those who believe in glossolalia refer to. They say, "It does not say in every scripture that speaks about the Holy Spirit baptism that they spoke in other tongues." However, the sign of tongues was such a fundamental phenomenon in the first century church that it was a "given." All understood it and so it would have been considered laborious to go into it at length every time they spoke about it. Likewise, the doctrine of the New Heavens and New Earth is just as fundamental to New Testament theology as was Holy Spirit baptism and the sign of tongues. Once you understand how it underlies and supports so much of what the apostles wrote you realize that it is mentioned everywhere.

One of the greatest pictures of the Old Testament has to do with the deliverance of Israel from the bondage of Egypt. The children of Israel were taken out of Egypt and placed in the Promised Land that God had prepared for them. Likewise, we are all coming out of spiritual Egypt (this present world) and going to our spiritual promised land (the New Heavens and New Earth). This is the everlasting kingdom of heaven. This is our inheritance that we have received a foretaste of through the Holy Spirit. It is written,

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

2 Peter 3:13​

And finally God writes in the book of Revelation,

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Revelations 21:1-3​

Click to expand...

[1]Jesus was the first to be born again from Spiritual death, He wasn't the first to be resurrected physically, People in the old testament were raised from the dead, And Jesus Himself raised the dead, So Jesus was the first to be born again from Spiritual death.

[2]The rebirth is a kind of resurrection from the dead, From Spiritual death,
We are born again," IN THIS LIFE", James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23. 1 Jn 5:1-4.

[3]Our physical bodies will be changed at the pre-trib rapture or the resurrection.

[4]Every Biblical record of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke in tongues, SO, Tongues are the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.

One thing I love about the Bible is that it anticipates every error and fallacy, at least, so far as I can find. And it does so quite simply.

Peter said, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"

We have already been born again. Peter was writing to people still here on this earth.

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"

Love in Christ,
Mark

How high are you? LOL. This message board is hilarious!

I already answered this question. Water and Spirit. We are like the wind.

Two different things are being spoken of here.

One is speaking of the reality of the new creature raised as a spirit being in the resurrection or changed into a spirit being at His coming. This is a real birth into a totally new creature and will never get sick or die.

The other is speaking of one's taking a new direction in his/her life and walking in "newness" of life. The creature here is still flesh and blood and will get sick and die.

Hi Justin.

Exactly. When one accepts Christ he/she is still carnal. He/she is still prone to sin.

Hi Justin,

Good thoughts you have put into this question. I also believe very closely to your points, but in Matthew 24 Jesus had told his disciples that the temple would be destroyed. They asked 'when would these things be?' Later in the chapter he told them 'heaven and earth shall pass away'. I do not believe Jesus changed the subject with this statement. I went searching to see how the Jews thoughts would be on 'heaven and earth'. I found this article by a Jewish professor, Rachael Alderman, about Jacob's vision. In the article she points out that the mount that Abraham took Isaac for the sacrifice, the place where Jacob had his vision and the temple mount in Jerusalem are one and the same place and she called it "where God and man meet". So according to her the Jerusalem temple would be known as heaven and earth.

Put all this together, we go to Revelation where it says 'I saw a new heaven and earth for the old has passed away and there was no more sea.' So the conclusion is that after the temple in Jerusalem passed away, a new temple came about.

Has this happened since the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD?
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The part about 'there was no more sea' means that this temple is for whosoever will.

http://www.racheladelman.com/

The evidence that scripture confirms, also makes sense.

Good thought provoking post Justin!

The term "firstborn" is not the same thing as the born again phenominon that Jesus reffered to in John 3. "Firstborn" refers to a position or title. Jesus was not born again. Being born again is a prelude to the resurrection of our bodies. It is about receiving a new spirit, which comes from the seed of Christ. It is very literally about Jesus producing offspring. The resurrection is a completion of this process. There are those who will not die at all before the resurrection. Therefore the resurrection is not about coming back from the dead, but rather receiving a new body. The resurrection is not a birth. It is a change. The new birth of John 3 is actually and literally, a birth. The term is used for reproduction, as is the word "seed". We are born of His seed. It has happened already, as Peter put the term in the past tense, and used the word 'seed' (1Pet.1:23).

Justin Mangonel said:

Dear W,

I understand what you are saying but I really do think that the resurrection and receiving our glorified bodies is in fact the time where we are born into the New Heavens and New Earth. Giving your heart to Jesus is more akin to conception than a birth.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what opinion you have or I have concerning these things. The truth is not ours to possess. The bible says that the new birth happens at what you call conception. Peter put it into the past tense. Jesus said that it was a result of faith in Him. He also applied to our spirit (that which is born of the Spirit IS spirit). Paul said that we have a new man (Eph.4:24), and said that we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). In 2Cor.5:7, he said that if anyone is in Christ he IS (present tense) a new creation. All these and more add up to the fact that something was placed into us of Christ's seed at a particular point in time of faith in Him. " Having been born again"..are the words of Peter....."of incorruptable seed". You are using the term "born" as a figure of speech. But the term is in reality intended to be applied to the reality of reproduction. In Paul's teaching on the resurrection, he made no reference to reproduction, but rather to the future gift of a new body....."we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed". This is when the "treasure" will no longer reside in an earthen vessel, but rather a heavenly vessel; one that is compatible with the new heavens and new earth. But the treasure itself is not a mere conception. The bible calls something that was born in us.
Blessings, Howe

we recieve the holy spirit in conversion and he lives in us. (those of us who are saved.)

Being “born again” is what Jesus told Nicodemus he need to do. This requires some thinking, because Jesus does not address the questions or comments that are verbalized, but directs his comments to the persons next step in their personal spiritual development (what is on their heart spiritually). Jesus is not making some general philosophical statement (like Buddha might make) but is always addressing the audience he is talking to. We have to get into the context.
What did Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual development?

What does Nicodemus need to be doing next? (study the Old Testament, become one of the followers of Jesus right then and there, Confess, repent, etc.)
The first thing Nicodemus might do at least is what he already knows he should do? Is that not where you would start? So what is that?

Since Nicodemus is still part of the Sanhedrin, he would not have been immersed baptized by John’s baptism. That would have got him thrown out of the Sanhedrin.

Jesus is not going to blare the answer out to Nicodemus, since Nicodemus knows the answer, but he will make Nicodemus think about it hard, since it would already be on his mind.



Christian water baptism as seen in scripture: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the dead), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of your new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Justin Mangonel said:

Dear T,

Sometimes people receive the Holy Spirit at salvation and sometimes they receive Him after the salvation experience. Either way, it is accompanied by the sign of speaking in other tongues.

Click to expand...

Could you point me to the verses that say speaking in tongues is ALWAYS accompanied by being born again, "born of the Holy Spirit" receiving the HS what ever phrase you chose to use.

The OP is confusing spiritual rebirth with the resurrection of the dead at Christ's return. You are already spiritually born again, or you would not be believing in Christ. You would still be in love with your sin, and in rebellion toward God. The spiritual rebirth is necessary before anyone would genuinely choose to follow after Christ. It is the doctrine which says that a man's heart must be renewed so that it no longer desires sin, but desires Christ. This is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus in John 3. See also Ezekiel 36:25-27, and 1 John 5:1, where "having been born of God" is grammatically placed prior to the act of faith.