List being compiled/// Secession

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martinlawrencescott

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Apr 6, 2011
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I don't know, but maybe you're just being more specific with your race and culture than people are comfortable with. America has many cultures inside it, and each culture has its own system inside itself of right and wrong. We're at a point now, however, where the body of Christ needs to stand united and not separated, even by culture. Even works aren't going to be enough to determine who does or does not have the Spirit of the living God inside them.

We have created our denominations and our tags and our belief systems in order to prove ourselves Christian to the world, but in so doing we have divided the church and given the Body of Christ a bad name due to its division. The doctrine of what we believe must be made much simpler to include every Christian God has called on this earth, but never compromised even an inch. There must be unity in truth. That's what we fight for on these boards, but we're failing somehow in a terrible fashion. If one Christian is left out, in a global respect, then we've still failed on all parts. But God doesn't fail and He has shown His faith in us repeatedly as a people.

I suggest waiting for the right time. Persecution was a tool meant to spread the gospel to the corners of the earth. After this is complete, it's meant to unite the church from all corners. Once persecution hits, people can decide whether or not they want to wear the name Christian, and I know this time around it'll stick. I guess we can all ask the fundamental question of what it truly means to be a Christian. I have my answer tucked away in my heart. There has to be an inward and outward sign and it has to look like Jesus in both. I am personally not naming one person from this point on, until I can identify both. That's all I got.

M
 
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Axehead

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May 9, 2012
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Move all the liberals, progressives, statists, and socialists to California, build the wall, and watch what portion of America prospers and which does not.

And yet another way to get the point across. Thank you, Andyy.

I happened to ask my question in post #38 to my "very" democratic boss and the answer was a very honest one. "The democrats would dig under the wall to get to the other side".
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Anyone who claims their coming "king of the world" is not God and refuse to bow in worship to him will be marked a traitor anyway. So their lists won't make a difference.

Because so many are coming out of confusion today about the globalist's one-world government plans, the globalists are actually scared, which is why they would think such evil tactics as execution of dissentors would be necessary. Congress passed the go-ahead to build FEMA retention camps on U.S. Army bases about a year and a half ago, most likely because of scare tactic propaganda by globalists.

But all in all, what KIND of movement does that truly reveal? World Communism. These are... the tactics the Communist regimes have used in past history, and all one need do to understand that fact is to read up on the history of Communism. The last great Communist purge of history was in Cambodia by Pol Pot, executing millions of Cambodians who refused to bow to his Communist regime. When the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, the North Vietnamese Communists did the same things, purging out the dissentors they knew that would give them problems. The groups they historically go after are the educated, not just political rallyers. What we're seeing is a Red Dawn without the paratrooper invasions.
 

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Apr 2, 2009
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They talked about secession when bush stole the election from kerry(i remember them throwing eggs at his limosine)
Its the new world order and the facist goverment that they are trying to put into place,that has everyone up in arms.
Obama is nothing more than a puppet.

A statement I agree with.

The Bush family goes all the way back to Prescott Bush, who was a party to an early coup d'etat attempt to seize the government from Franklin D. Roosevelt. The president, in turn, was aware that newspapers would not be sympathetic to him and chose instead to speak to the nation over the radio. It began a series of addresses call the fireside chats. HW Bush was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the first really successful effort to take power. There have been a lot of small battles and successes, but overall the military industrial complex and financial cartel now have the upper hand. No president, be he Democrat or Republican can now oppose the policy of the oligarchs who rule America.

Obama truly is a puppet. If one does a detailed examination of the platforms of both candidates during the past election, one will soon discover that the two parties were not that different in their propositions. Romney bullied his way to the nomination having defeated in the primaries such worthy opponents as Ron Paul. Who did you vote for in the past election? It made no difference at all which name you chose because they both represented the same machine. (I am a Libertarian and I voted for Gary Johnson.)

Returning to secession:
While I have no doubts that those who submitted their names on petitions have now been reduced to entries in a fascist database, it should be noted that the actual process for secession is not accomplished that way. Secession, at least the American sort, is accomplished according to the rule of law.

Remember Constitutional law. The document is based upon the premise that STATES are sovereign nations and that those nations have joined together for mutual advantages. Common defense and regulation of trade are two of the main reasons for establishing a federal government over the separate states. The states in turn gave part of the sovereignty to the federal government so as to benefit from the union.

However, the constitution also states that if and when the union thus formed becomes more totalitarian than the one the colonies broke away from in 1776, it is the right and duty of the individual states TO FORM A NEW GOVERNMENT. The process for forming that government is also defined. I'll not quote it here, but it would be a good idea for the reader to familiarize themselves with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand these documents and it doesn't take long to read them. Do it.

The process of secession is a legal procedure that is conducted BY THE STATES, not individuals. Citizen petitions to DC for secession are not legal, even by the forms approved by the Confederate states during the 1861 war of northern aggression. Although every state in the union now has active secessionist organizations, none are legitimate in that NO STATE LEADERSHIP participates or identifies openly with the movement.

I have attended sessions of my own state legislature (Florida) and heard states rights referenced in thinly cloaked terms on the floor of the legislature during debate. The issue, in Florida at least, is bubbling beneath the surface. It's my guess that many representatives (we call them 'members' here) would be willing to voice opposition to continued membership in the US Federal Union if sufficient popular support in their districts were made known. The best way to do that is to write often and long to one's STATE representative about secession. There are lots of reasons why its a good idea today.

Lets be clear on one thing. It was the action of God in the 1860s that caused the national disaster of civil war. It was a judgment for the sin of slavery. In the twenty first century, America is guilty of different sins no less heinous in the eyes of God. Abortion (53 million dead innocents), legalization of sexual aberrations, making prayer and the name of Jesus illegal in public and in schools, sympathy toward Islam (to the extreme of ignoring 'honor killings' IN AMERICA - in the press and in the courts), invasion of nations that have not harmed us, and the economic foolishness of maintaining an overextended and bloated military (do we really need a Navy that's larger than the next 17 nations COMBINED?).

If God judged America for the sin of slavery, how much more wrath have we stored up for ourselves today? It is historical fact that economic factors have led to the dismemberment of nearly every empire. Few collapsed because of military defeat on the battlefield. Today we hear talk of secession. America is already fractured by its natural state boundaries and it wouldn't take much to cleave those boundaries at the DC level.

On the other hand, it might be simpler all around if DC would just secede from the rest of the country.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Foreigner

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Apr 14, 2010
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The Bush family goes all the way back to Prescott Bush, who was a party to an early coup d'etat attempt to seize the government from Franklin D. Roosevelt. The president, in turn, was aware that newspapers would not be sympathetic to him and chose instead to speak to the nation over the radio. It began a series of addresses call the fireside chats. HW Bush was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the first really successful effort to take power. There have been a lot of small battles and successes, but overall the military industrial complex and financial cartel now have the upper hand. No president, be he Democrat or Republican can now oppose the policy of the oligarchs who rule America.

Rjp, you aluminum foil helmet is juuuuuust a little too tight.
- Prescott Bush was NOT party to an attempted coup d'etat. Never happened. Never.
- Also, there were scores of newspapers in FDR's pocket. There were very few that weren't.
- There was the agreement with the heads of several newspapers to never print pictures of FDR in braces or in a wheelchair because it would hurt his support.
- And the reason FDR gave fireside chats was because he could reach the entire United States in on felled swoop. With newspapers there were large parts of the country that would not be touched.
- HW Bush was NEVER involved in a plot to assasinate JFK. Ever. (Every single person that claims this is never able to provide even a shred of proof.)


Lets be clear on one thing. It was the action of God in the 1860s that caused the national disaster of civil war. It was a judgment for the sin of slavery. I

-- Opinion, but not proven fact.
At the time a large chunk of America was working against slavery and MAN declared war on MAN. Not God.


In the twenty first century, America is guilty of different sins no less heinous in the eyes of God. Abortion (53 million dead innocents), legalization of sexual aberrations, making prayer and the name of Jesus illegal in public and in schools, sympathy toward Islam (to the extreme of ignoring 'honor killings' IN AMERICA - in the press and in the courts), invasion of nations that have not harmed us, and the economic foolishness of maintaining an overextended and bloated military (do we really need a Navy that's larger than the next 17 nations COMBINED?).

-- You are correct about abortions, sexual 'aberrations' and the criminalization of Christianity, but the rest?.....not so much.
You are especially wrong about Islam and honor killings. They are persecuted, but you cannot report what you don't hear about. Many are never reported.

And as far as the US Navy being larger than the next 17 nations, COMBINED,
We may spend more on our navy than other countries (our servicemembers are paid better than in any other military) but we do not have a navy larger than the next 17 countries. Romney wasn't right about a lot of things but he was right when he said the US navy is now as small as it has been at any time since 1917.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/oct/23/size-us-navy-changed-1917

Personally, I think that abortion, gay marraige acceptance, and what is slowing becoming the persecution of Christianity in America that is causing God to turn his face from us.
 

michaelvpardo

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Feb 26, 2011
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Foreigner said:
Rjp, you aluminum foil helmet is juuuuuust a little too tight.
- Prescott Bush was NOT party to an attempted coup d'etat. Never happened. Never.
- Also, there were scores of newspapers in FDR's pocket. There were very few that weren't.
- There was the agreement with the heads of several newspapers to never print pictures of FDR in braces or in a wheelchair because it would hurt his support.
- And the reason FDR gave fireside chats was because he could reach the entire United States in on felled swoop. With newspapers there were large parts of the country that would not be touched.
- HW Bush was NEVER involved in a plot to assasinate JFK. Ever. (Every single person that claims this is never able to provide even a shred of proof.)




-- Opinion, but not proven fact.
At the time a large chunk of America was working against slavery and MAN declared war on MAN. Not God.




-- You are correct about abortions, sexual 'aberrations' and the criminalization of Christianity, but the rest?.....not so much.
You are especially wrong about Islam and honor killings. They are persecuted, but you cannot report what you don't hear about. Many are never reported.

And as far as the US Navy being larger than the next 17 nations, COMBINED,
We may spend more on our navy than other countries (our servicemembers are paid better than in any other military) but we do not have a navy larger than the next 17 countries. Romney wasn't right about a lot of things but he was right when he said the US navy is now as small as it has been at any time since 1917.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/oct/23/size-us-navy-changed-1917

Personally, I think that abortion, gay marraige acceptance, and what is slowing becoming the persecution of Christianity in America that is causing God to turn his face from us.
My first attempt at posting a response disappeared with an accidental key stroke, so I suppose that it wasn't meant to be seen. I don't know if the statements made by RJP are true or not, but I do know that you and I will never be given access (willingly) to information deemed matters of National Security (whether they really are or not.) When I was very young, one of my cousins would tell me stories about his two tours of duty in South east Asia.. He was stationed in Thailand, but routinely went on long range patrols over the borders of countries that we were not officially at war with nor invited into (like China, Laos, Cambodia, etc.) My cousin flatly stated that early on he was told to sign a document which attested to the fact that he was "on loan" to the Central Intelligence Agency and not officially engaged in military operations sanctioned by the DOD. While serving in that capacity he was told stories about actions our government was directly involved in, in South America, such as the assassination of Che Guevara, some of which he repeated to me. He was also sworn to secrecy about these things, but my cousin never suffered from any delusion that secrecy was in the best interest of the public. These stories seemed so fantastic to me that I thought that he was just "pulling my leg" or telling tall tales, but a few years later, a leftist newspaper from Manhattan, the Village Voice, illegally published excerpts from documents that were still classified and dealt with at least some of the events that I'd been told about. Not only had these things happened, but they'd happened in the manner described by my cousin. If you don't recall this, you should still be able to find some information about the incident with the Village Voice as the government attempted to prosecute the editors of the paper for revealing classified information.
A fellow named William Cooper wrote a book that he titled "Behold A Pale Horse" that was the mother of all conspiracy books (at least as far as the ones that I've read). Mr. Cooper served in the Navy and as a communications system officer (I think it was teletype). He claimed among other things that he'd seen a report of the assassination of JFK, before it actually occurred. Stuff like this is just about impossible to verify, but Mr. Cooper provided an extensive appendix with source materials for his book. While some of his sources had all the integrity of your average supermarket tabloid, he also presented a number of government documents. One such document, reportedly from the U.S. Senate Library, is about DOD appropriation for 1970. The presentation of the document in photo copy format allows for the possibility of a fabrication, but the document deals with a DOD grant of 10 Million dollars for research to develop a virus that would attack the immune system, thereby rendering the body defenseless to fight the infection or infections in general (does this sound like AIDS to you.) One of my University buddies, now a plastic surgeon, had been very interested in research as a student and told me before I had ever read this book that virologists had already identified a better than 90% variation in the protein coat of the AIDS virus among case studies, an abnormally high amount of variation; this itself suggested that the virus was not naturally derived, but the product of recombinant DNA techniques.
The truth can be terrifying, especially when you consider that "the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth"(Genesis 8:21). As a race, whatever we imagine that we can do, we will do.
Do you remember the announcement of the development of the Neutron bomb? All the killing power of the "nuke" without the destruction of the infrastructure or messy residual radiation; just clean up the bodies and move in. Have you ever heard of DOD sponsored research into low frequency sound weapons that can turn a human body into a pile of jello like goo and bones? Or research into the development of "heavy metal" laser technology to produce lasers operating at extremely high frequencies, possibly even at gamma wave lengths (gamma rays don't really mutate people, they just kill them?) God forbid that all the technologies being studied by the DOD for over 30 years are ever implemented in warfare.
Do you know why there never seems to be proof of any of the conspiracy stuff? The evidence has a strange way of disappearing (as with the remains of JFK's autopsied brain: how do you loose a murdered president's brain?) Its also interesting that witnesses have a certain tendency to disappear or die prematurely.
Of course, the American public has been made callous to atrocity through media indoctrination even within my own lifetime. Twenty years ago the assassination of Osama Bin Ladin without a trial might have been considered justice by some, but an impeachable offense by others, and certainly wouldn't have been lauded as one of the greatest accomplishments of our president's first term in office. How was this more just than the action of the thugs who first shot and then dragged the body of Khadaffi through his native streets? When has vengeance ever been the same as justice?
Considering that human nature is not good (in its fallen state) what purpose would secession serve? "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." The leftist infiltrators have been working within our educational systems to change the national view of itself for at least 4 decades. A large percentage of the population would rather see everyone equally poor rather than just "a few" rich and even consider it a Just cause to abrogate what God, who gives power to attain wealth, has determined.
The system of this world exists independently of governments and molds men to its standards. Darkness persists where light fails to enter in. If you desire to see change in a nation you need to change the hearts of it's populace. Satan works upon the mind, but God alone can change a heart. (We need to renew our minds through the reading of God's word, but He alone gives new life through the regeneration of the spirit.)
I think that I've rambled on more than enough, but sometimes a conspiracy story is a story about a conspiracy, however the thing to keep in mind is that the Lord reigns and nothing happens that surprises Him, nor alters the course of His will.
 

[email protected]

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Apr 2, 2009
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Michael V Pardo said:
My first attempt at posting a response disappeared with an accidental key stroke, so I suppose that it wasn't meant to be seen. I don't know if the statements made by RJP are true or not, but I do know that you and I will never be given access (willingly) to information deemed matters of National Security (whether they really are or not.) When I was very young, one of my cousins would tell me stories about his two tours of duty in South east Asia.. He was stationed in Thailand, but routinely went on long range patrols over the borders of countries that we were not officially at war with nor invited into (like China, Laos, Cambodia, etc.) My cousin flatly stated that early on he was told to sign a document which attested to the fact that he was "on loan" to the Central Intelligence Agency and not officially engaged in military operations sanctioned by the DOD. While serving in that capacity he was told stories about actions our government was directly involved in, in South America, such as the assassination of Che Guevara, some of which he repeated to me. He was also sworn to secrecy about these things, but my cousin never suffered from any delusion that secrecy was in the best interest of the public. These stories seemed so fantastic to me that I thought that he was just "pulling my leg" or telling tall tales, but a few years later, a leftist newspaper from Manhattan, the Village Voice, illegally published excerpts from documents that were still classified and dealt with at least some of the events that I'd been told about. Not only had these things happened, but they'd happened in the manner described by my cousin. If you don't recall this, you should still be able to find some information about the incident with the Village Voice as the government attempted to prosecute the editors of the paper for revealing classified information.
A fellow named William Cooper wrote a book that he titled "Behold A Pale Horse" that was the mother of all conspiracy books (at least as far as the ones that I've read). Mr. Cooper served in the Navy and as a communications system officer (I think it was teletype). He claimed among other things that he'd seen a report of the assassination of JFK, before it actually occurred. Stuff like this is just about impossible to verify, but Mr. Cooper provided an extensive appendix with source materials for his book. While some of his sources had all the integrity of your average supermarket tabloid, he also presented a number of government documents. One such document, reportedly from the U.S. Senate Library, is about DOD appropriation for 1970. The presentation of the document in photo copy format allows for the possibility of a fabrication, but the document deals with a DOD grant of 10 Million dollars for research to develop a virus that would attack the immune system, thereby rendering the body defenseless to fight the infection or infections in general (does this sound like AIDS to you.) One of my University buddies, now a plastic surgeon, had been very interested in research as a student and told me before I had ever read this book that virologists had already identified a better than 90% variation in the protein coat of the AIDS virus among case studies, an abnormally high amount of variation; this itself suggested that the virus was not naturally derived, but the product of recombinant DNA techniques.
The truth can be terrifying, especially when you consider that "the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth"(Genesis 8:21). As a race, whatever we imagine that we can do, we will do.
Do you remember the announcement of the development of the Neutron bomb? All the killing power of the "nuke" without the destruction of the infrastructure or messy residual radiation; just clean up the bodies and move in. Have you ever heard of DOD sponsored research into low frequency sound weapons that can turn a human body into a pile of jello like goo and bones? Or research into the development of "heavy metal" laser technology to produce lasers operating at extremely high frequencies, possibly even at gamma wave lengths (gamma rays don't really mutate people, they just kill them?) God forbid that all the technologies being studied by the DOD for over 30 years are ever implemented in warfare.
Do you know why there never seems to be proof of any of the conspiracy stuff? The evidence has a strange way of disappearing (as with the remains of JFK's autopsied brain: how do you loose a murdered president's brain?) Its also interesting that witnesses have a certain tendency to disappear or die prematurely.
Of course, the American public has been made callous to atrocity through media indoctrination even within my own lifetime. Twenty years ago the assassination of Osama Bin Ladin without a trial might have been considered justice by some, but an impeachable offense by others, and certainly wouldn't have been lauded as one of the greatest accomplishments of our president's first term in office. How was this more just than the action of the thugs who first shot and then dragged the body of Khadaffi through his native streets? When has vengeance ever been the same as justice?
Considering that human nature is not good (in its fallen state) what purpose would secession serve? "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." The leftist infiltrators have been working within our educational systems to change the national view of itself for at least 4 decades. A large percentage of the population would rather see everyone equally poor rather than just "a few" rich and even consider it a Just cause to abrogate what God, who gives power to attain wealth, has determined.
The system of this world exists independently of governments and molds men to its standards. Darkness persists where light fails to enter in. If you desire to see change in a nation you need to change the hearts of it's populace. Satan works upon the mind, but God alone can change a heart. (We need to renew our minds through the reading of God's word, but He alone gives new life through the regeneration of the spirit.)
I think that I've rambled on more than enough, but sometimes a conspiracy story is a story about a conspiracy, however the thing to keep in mind is that the Lord reigns and nothing happens that surprises Him, nor alters the course of His will.
I apologize ahead of time for including the full body of the above post, but I think it's important to review.

I was a member of a Naval support group in September of 1973 that participated in the overthrow of President Allende of Chili. At the time, the main group we were supporting were considered to be a secret highly trained military assault unit. Nobody had ever heard of Seals. We did because we worked closely with them - one of my first experiences with secret government operations.

At the time, the US media was focused on events in Southeast Asia and completely unconcerned about American involvement in the overthrow of a legally elected government. The action was completely and totally illegal. All of us who participated in it, even though we wore the uniforms of the United States military, were criminals! We violated the rights and expressed will of a people foreign to us. We keep doing it to this day!

Allende was a Marxist and was replaced by a US backed fascist military junta. That's the historic pattern for the growth of US hegemony in the world. It's easier to manipulate a dictator than popular vote.

No popular book I've heard of mentions that sort of conspiracy even though they were and are quite common things. I stand in awe of the gullibility of the American people who continue to believe, without the slightest evidence, that the United States is some sort of force for good in the world. We are not. We haven't been such a force in a very very long time.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...


"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

Foreigner said:
Rjp, you aluminum foil helmet is juuuuuust a little too tight.
- Prescott Bush was NOT party to an attempted coup d'etat. Never happened. Never.
- Also, there were scores of newspapers in FDR's pocket. There were very few that weren't.
- There was the agreement with the heads of several newspapers to never print pictures of FDR in braces or in a wheelchair because it would hurt his support.
- And the reason FDR gave fireside chats was because he could reach the entire United States in on felled swoop. With newspapers there were large parts of the country that would not be touched.
- HW Bush was NEVER involved in a plot to assasinate JFK. Ever. (Every single person that claims this is never able to provide even a shred of proof.)
You need to do your homework.


The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

This same general Butler was approached by a group of men who controlled the financial and industrial powers of the United States to become the de facto dictator of the United States once President Roosevelt was deposed. Butler exposed the conspiracy and the story was carried by the New York Times among other papers - albeit in the back pages. The public revelation caused the group to withdraw until future opportunities could be devised or discovered.

Read about it. Don't just sit there and besmirch the facts presented. Read about it. Do your own homework. For your own sake - DO IT.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Foreigner

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Apr 14, 2010
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You need to do your homework.


The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

This same general Butler was approached by a group of men who controlled the financial and industrial powers of the United States to become the de facto dictator of the United States once President Roosevelt was deposed. Butler exposed the conspiracy and the story was carried by the New York Times among other papers - albeit in the back pages. The public revelation caused the group to withdraw until future opportunities could be devised or discovered.

Read about it. Don't just sit there and besmirch the facts presented. Read about it. Do your own homework. For your own sake - DO IT.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
-- Actually, it is you who needs to do his homework.
Absolutely nothing you said refutes what I posted:

"- Prescott Bush was NOT party to an attempted coup d'etat. Never happened. Never.
- Also, there were scores of newspapers in FDR's pocket. There were very few that weren't.
- There was the agreement with the heads of several newspapers to never print pictures of FDR in braces or in a wheelchair because it would hurt his support.
- And the reason FDR gave fireside chats was because he could reach the entire United States in on felled swoop. With newspapers there were large parts of the country that would not be touched.
- HW Bush was NEVER involved in a plot to assasinate JFK. Ever. (Every single person that claims this is never able to provide even a shred of proof.)"


As a matter of fact, much of what you said doesn't even attempt to address what I posted.
Look at what I posted ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ and then look at what you posted. Very little intersection.

If you are going to continue to "holler from the choir loft" it would be nice if what you were hollering was factual or actually had something to do with the discussion.

I wasn't kidding about that aluminum foil helmet...




.
 

michaelvpardo

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Feb 26, 2011
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I apologize ahead of time for including the full body of the above post, but I think it's important to review.

I was a member of a Naval support group in September of 1973 that participated in the overthrow of President Allende of Chili. At the time, the main group we were supporting were considered to be a secret highly trained military assault unit. Nobody had ever heard of Seals. We did because we worked closely with them - one of my first experiences with secret government operations.

At the time, the US media was focused on events in Southeast Asia and completely unconcerned about American involvement in the overthrow of a legally elected government. The action was completely and totally illegal. All of us who participated in it, even though we wore the uniforms of the United States military, were criminals! We violated the rights and expressed will of a people foreign to us. We keep doing it to this day!

Allende was a Marxist and was replaced by a US backed fascist military junta. That's the historic pattern for the growth of US hegemony in the world. It's easier to manipulate a dictator than popular vote.

No popular book I've heard of mentions that sort of conspiracy even though they were and are quite common things. I stand in awe of the gullibility of the American people who continue to believe, without the slightest evidence, that the United States is some sort of force for good in the world. We are not. We haven't been such a force in a very very long time.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...


"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)



You need to do your homework.


The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

This same general Butler was approached by a group of men who controlled the financial and industrial powers of the United States to become the de facto dictator of the United States once President Roosevelt was deposed. Butler exposed the conspiracy and the story was carried by the New York Times among other papers - albeit in the back pages. The public revelation caused the group to withdraw until future opportunities could be devised or discovered.

Read about it. Don't just sit there and besmirch the facts presented. Read about it. Do your own homework. For your own sake - DO IT.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
The standard of Rome was the eagle. I don't think that it's simple coincidence that our nation chose an eagle as it's national emblem. Rome enforced a peace of sorts that we call the PAX Romana, some think it appropriate for us as a nation to enforce a PAX Americana. I'm not saying that we're becoming the new Roman empire, but it seems as though there are more than a few powerful people who would like us to be. In Rome the influence of Christianity toned down the barbarism of the culture. Here the failing influence of Christianity is seeing just the opposite effect. We can't replace Rome, we'll never last that long. I sat through a long and depressing movie a few nights ago that was about a substitute teacher in a modern high school and the dismal state, not of our educational system, but of the American family. The movie presented the idea that the un involvement of American parents with the lives of their children is creating a lost generation, however I don't see that parents are less interested in their children's welfare. They just seem to be clueless as to the result of turning away from God and allowing their children to make choices based upon what the mass media bulk feeds them every day of their lives.


21 They will pass through it hard-pressed and hungry; and it shall happen, when they are hungry, that they will be enraged and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22 Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. Isaiah 8:21-22

This passage was written for Israel, but it describes the typical response of the hearts of men to calamity and suffering. I trust that the Lord always has a remnant which He brings through the darkness as faithful servants, but what hope is there for a society that willfully rejects Him? People want an optimist with the promise of better things to come and won't hold such an individual responsible for the foolishness that results from their own choices. No, they'll just blame God and turn to bitterness and destruction, cursing their creator and feeding themselves with the satisfaction of every evil desire for a moment's distraction from their own grim reality. It's happened before and will happen again until the Lord comes in glory and brings the rebellion to an end.
I'm convinced that this will happen sooner, rather than later, and I wish that the people teaching that a pre-tribulation rapture will occur were right, however I'm also quite convinced that we're here to be light in the darkness. I pray that we can remain faithful. How does one overcome wormwood? I think this is only by clinging to the word of His testimony and trusting in the blood of the lamb, even that of our Savior Jesus Christ, blessed forever. Amen
 

IAmAWitness

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Nov 7, 2012
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Thanks for your points RJP and Michael V Pardo, for those who don't know the true events of history, and special commendation to Michael for referencing Cooper and Behold a Pale Horse.

The story of WW2 is fascinating as well. Hitler tried to negotiate with Poland into allowing Poland to let Hitler pass through in order to invade he Soviet Union. Soviet Union had plans of invading Europe and making Europe many satellite states (whichthe yev entually did do with many countries in Eastern Europe and the istans). The Bolshevik Revolution in 1917 was inspired partly by Jewish agitators. Therefore, Nazi policy in a country that had its own internal struggles, some Communist agitators, who the Nazis were determined to destroy and saw Zionism as being a worthy scapegoat as Lenin and several co -conspirators were Jewish.

On an aside, one of the fathers of modern Germany, was one of the most notorious anti-Semites in church history, some have said the worst. The common Lutheran heritage opened up the possibility for a Jewish oppression, thanks to conspiracies abounding about Jewish agitation prior to the Bolshevik Revolution.

Of course Poland did not oblige and was invaded by Germany September of 1939.

Franklin Roosevelt was a Jew of Communist bent, a Russian pawn who quickly sided with Russia. The attack at Pearl Harbor the US government had reliable intelligence on and allowed what amounted to a false flag to occur in order to crush Germany,

1960s : Enter Anatoly Golitsyn

Representative Herlong introduces into the Congressional Record the 40 goals of Communism,

1980s-1990s : Enter Dumitru Dudeman

We were sold out to the Communists in the 1940s.

Patton tried to warn this country. He was murderedi n the final days of the war.

Douglas MacArthur tried to warn us and he was removed from service by FDR's VP.

Im' not saying we should have sided with Germany. We shouldn't have and they were rightfully destroyed. But The writing was on the wall that The Soviet Union was amassing arms and was bent on world domination just after the war when we might have destroyed them, as Patton said. We never did and now we are fresh meat for them.
 

Foreigner

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Apr 14, 2010
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IAmAWitness said:
We were sold out to the Communists in the 1940s.

Patton tried to warn this country. He was murderedi n the final days of the war.

Douglas MacArthur tried to warn us and he was removed from service by FDR's VP.

-- If we were "sold out to the Communists in the 1940s" then why didn't the United States leave Europe at the end of WWII.....you know, in the mid-40s?

Instead we chose to leave large numbers of troops and massive amounts of equipment in Western Europe to help ensure that Communism didn't spread across the whole continent.

George Patton was not murdered. The person that hit him was investigated and shown to have no ties to the communists, the nazis, or any other group. Patton died in his hospital bed with his wife at his side.

Making claims like this with zero proof is - at best - dishonest.



And you leave out some specific facts about MacArthur. Truman wasn't FDR's vice-president when he fired MacArthur. He was President and had been for seven years.
MacArthur was fired because he repeatedly and publically questioned the orders given by his Commander-in-Chief. Something he had sworn under oath not to do.

And you leave out that MacArthur was advocating the invasion of mainland China and the use of nuclear weapons.
Translation: He wanted an all out land war on Chinese soil against an army ten times bigger than the United States military, on their home turf, thousands of miles away from the United States.

Again, he was speaking out publically against his president (which a military person cannot do, especially in times of conflict) and he was advocating moving the police action to an all-out war.

These little facts are important, don't you think?

Omission and misdirection are - at best - still dishonest.




.
 

Axehead

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May 9, 2012
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BiggAndyy said:
Bad in the fact Federalism was entrenched into the political landscape and has ultimately led to today; a country ruled by 10 square miles of land next to Virginia. Slavery is another issue, this is a discussion of secession and the roots that led to what we have today.

Lincoln could not have done anything else what he did. The Civil War was fought over States Rights and the Right of Secession. Slavery was the backdrop that ignited the war, but the rallying cry in the South was not "give me slaves or give me death." The men and boys who died in Gettysburg were fighting for the right to seceed from the union, no matter the reason.
That is true, Andyy,

revisionist history has made the Civil War about slaves and it wasn't. It was about States Rights. An often overlooked piece of history is that the North had slaves, too.

I believe Virginia was the first to secede from the Union and it was not over slavery.

Today, we have about 1000 men and women that rule the US. The President, Congress and Judges and time after time, the will of the people keep getting ignored. Royalty!! 1000 men and women ruling 330 million. You know, if the Federal Government did not have any revenue from taxes they would not be able to bribe the States or hold them hostage. This is their power. If they only had tax money to maintain a standing army and protect our borders, the States would take care of their citizens just fine. Actually, citizens of the States would take care of each other, just fine.