The Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven

Axehead · Nov 17, 2012

There has been much said about "the Keys" of the Kingdom in various threads and I would like to use the Word of God to establish the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus gave Peter is not Authority and Power over the "government" of His Church. That alone rests in the hands of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 16:19 - Jesus told Peter: "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven..."

Sometimes "keys" in Biblical usage are symbolic of governmental authority and power. Assuming that Jesus gave Peter the powers of government in the future church is a fallacy. In all Messianic prophecy, the powers of government were always exclusively in the hands of the Messiah Himself.

Isa 9:6 - "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

We all know this is speaking of Jesus Christ, the "child born" in Bethlehem, the "son is given" at Calvary, the Prince of Peace.

Thus the God/man, Jesus Christ carries the "government on His shoulder" and this relates to His rule over His kingdom and the "increase of His government shall never end".

Isa 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end..."

Isaiah 22:22 further prophecies of Jesus' future rule: "And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut and none shall open."

The "house of David" relates to the future kingdom of Messiah - as confirmed in II Samuel 7:15; Psalms 89:3-4; 29-37.
"He shall open and none shall shut" and vice-versa indicates the uncontested authority of the coming of Christ.
The "key on his shoulder" implies the same thought already prophesied in Isaiah 9:6 where the "government shall be on his shoulder."
Revelation 3:7 says of Jesus: These things sayeth he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and none shall shut, and that shutteth and none openeth."
This is a direct correlation to Isaiah 22:22!
So the "keys" Jesus gave to Peter were not the keys of government - for long after Peter is dead, the Revelation passage sees Jesus still holding the "keys."

"Keys" in Scripture also indicate knowledge of truth.

Jesus pronounced a curse upon the teachers of the Law of Moses - the Levites. They had all the prophetic revelations about the coming Messiah and they should have used that knowledge to lead people to Jesus - but they did just the opposite - therefore the curse.
We see people today using this knowledge to lead people to them and to their "structure" instead of to Jesus. They too, will share in the "curse".
Luke 11:52 Jesus said, "Woe unto you lawyers! for ye took away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."
The knowledge relates to Jesus' Messiahship, and to His absolute authority in the coming kingdom and to the conditions of entrance into that kingdom.
This knowledge is the keys that Jesus gave Peter. At least is seems that Peter himself so understood the concept of the keys.
Acts 15:7 Peter seems to explain the keys at the Jerusalem conference on circumcision saying, "Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

a. "A good while ago" - others translate "from early days" - relating back to the personal ministry
of Jesus before His crucifixion.
b. "God made choice among you" - Jesus singled Peter out of the apostolic group for a very
special mission.
c. "By my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel" -
In other words: receive the knowledge about Christ and thereby be saved.

7. At least one thing is evident from I Corinthians 15:25 and that is that Christ shall "reign" until the
end of time. "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."
8. And Ephesians 1:21-22 together with Colossians 1:18 prove that Christ alone is the "head of
the church" and that relates to government.

Axehead

neophyte · Nov 18, 2012

In Matt. 16:15-19 we can clearly see that Jesus while speaking to Peter and Peter alone , changing Peter's name,meaning the only time Jesus ever changes a person's name is to designate an important position to that person.
Jesus knew He would need an earthly shepherd to lead the flock, also Jesus knew as does the Holy Bible that such an inheritance of Christianity could not be contained in a Book Alone regardless of how inspired. His Church is fully embodied , preserved and delivered to a hungry world only in the "Fullness of the Faith" once for all entrusted to the saints
Matt.16:15-19 read this verse over again and see how you have twisted the very words of the Holy Bible.

Alanforchrist · Nov 22, 2012

neophyte said:
In Matt. 16:15-19 we can clearly see that Jesus while speaking to Peter and Peter alone , changing Peter's name,meaning the only time Jesus ever changes a person's name is to designate an important position to that person.
Jesus knew He would need an earthly shepherd to lead the flock, also Jesus knew as does the Holy Bible that such an inheritance of Christianity could not be contained in a Book Alone regardless of how inspired. His Church is fully embodied , preserved and delivered to a hungry world only in the "Fullness of the Faith" once for all entrusted to the saints
Matt.16:15-19 read this verse over again and see how you have twisted the very words of the Holy Bible.

The Greek and Aramaic words for Peter are, Petros in the Greek, And Cephas in Aramaic.
They mean a stone, Se Jn 1: 42.

The Greek meaning for "Peter, Petros," is,
"A stone that is easily moved or shaken".

And Jesus built His Church on, "Petra", Petra means, "A solid foundation".
So Jesus built His Church on "Petra", Not Petros, [Peter].

We can tell what God says by what He doesn't say just as much as by what He says,
PLEASE NOTE, What Jesus DIDN'T SAY,
"Thou art Peter, and upon YOU, I will build My Church"...DID HE??...No..NO.
He said, Thou art Peter and upon this OTHER ROCK, I will build My Church.

Jesus gave the key to Peter, The disciples AND The Church.

Note what Jesus said,
"I will build My Church on Petra, "A solid foundation", And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,
And I will give thee [The Church] the keys of the Kingdom of heaven".

Those of us who know the Bible, Know that Jesus gave all His disciples authority, Not just Peter or the twelve Apostles,
Lk 10: 1 & 17 -20 shows us that Jesus gave another seventy authority.

epostle1 · Nov 23, 2012

Alanforchrist said:
The Greek and Aramaic words for Peter are, Petros in the Greek, And Cephas in Aramaic.
They mean a stone, Se Jn 1: 42.

The Greek meaning for "Peter, Petros," is,
"A stone that is easily moved or shaken".

And Jesus built His Church on, "Petra", Petra means, "A solid foundation".
So Jesus built His Church on "Petra", Not Petros, [Peter].

We can tell what God says by what He doesn't say just as much as by what He says,
PLEASE NOTE, What Jesus DIDN'T SAY,
"Thou art Peter, and upon YOU, I will build My Church"...DID HE??...No..NO.
He said, Thou art Peter and upon this OTHER ROCK, I will build My Church.

Jesus gave the key to Peter, The disciples AND The Church.

Note what Jesus said,
"I will build My Church on Petra, "A solid foundation", And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,
And I will give thee [The Church] the keys of the Kingdom of heaven".

Those of us who know the Bible, Know that Jesus gave all His disciples authority, Not just Peter or the twelve Apostles,
Lk 10: 1 & 17 -20 shows us that Jesus gave another seventy authority.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
more here

Those of us who know the Bible, Know that Jesus gave all His disciples authority, Not just Peter or the twelve Apostles,

Anyone who knows the Bible knows that authority to teach given to all disciples can't be found, and there is only one set of keys, not 12, and not 12 + 70.
.

Lk 10: 1 & 17 -20 shows us that Jesus gave another seventy authority.

But not the same authority He gave to Peter and the Apostles. That much should be obvious.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 23, 2012

Axehead said:
There has been much said about "the Keys" of the Kingdom in various threads and I would like to use the Word of God to establish the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus gave Peter is not Authority and Power over the "government" of His Church. That alone rests in the hands of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 16:19 - Jesus told Peter: "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven..."

Axehead said:
Luke 11:52 Jesus said, "Woe unto you lawyers! for ye took away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."

The knowledge relates to Jesus' Messiahship, and to His absolute authority in the coming kingdom and to the conditions of entrance into that kingdom.

This knowledge is the keys that Jesus gave Peter. At least is seems that Peter himself so understood the concept of the keys.

Axehead

Keys are used to open up a doorway. A lot of people expect to be greeted by Peter at the gates into heaven. That just isn't the case, he open the door to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles.

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

When Peter saw that the Gentiles had received the gift he told them

Acts 10:45-48
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord

The "gift" that the Jews and the Gentiles received from the Holy Ghost was eternal life.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

neophyte · Nov 23, 2012

Rocky Wiley, sorry but this that you wrote is no way taught by the Catholic Church you must stop reading your comic books Rocky Wiley wrote: "Keys are used to open up a doorway. A lot of people expect to be greeted by Peter at the gates into heaven. ''

Helen · Nov 23, 2012

Well there I was, all excited to read this thread and be told what the keys of the kingdom we all about! LOL
And, then the Keys were dropped and it became all about Peter!! :blink: When Jesus asked Peter who He was he said..
[sup]16 [/sup][font=Charis SIL'] Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.[/font]
[font=Charis SIL'][sup]17 [/sup]And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.[/font]
[sup]18 [/sup][font=Charis SIL']And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.[/font]
[font=Charis SIL'][sup]19 [/sup]And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[/font]
[font=Charis SIL'][sup]20 [/sup]Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.[/font]

I am of the persuasion that the rock was indeed The Rock Himself! And Peters revelation that Jesus was The foundation of our life and salvation, the Rock that David wrote about!
And this revelation being the very foundation of His Church.
And the 'keys'..... Jesus' authority given to the disciples....and us, to bind and loose etc

...I just had a message saying someone has also just posted here, while I was writing...so maybe I have said what someone has said better than I

Alanforchrist · Nov 23, 2012

kepha31 said:
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
more here

Anyone who knows the Bible knows that authority to teach given to all disciples can't be found, and there is only one set of keys, not 12, and not 12 + 70.
.

But not the same authority He gave to Peter and the Apostles. That much should be obvious.

[1]Peter in Aramaic is, Cephas [A small stone] And Jesus build His Church on Petra, [A solid foundation].

PLEASE READ THIS AGAIN,

The Greek and Aramaic words for Peter are, Petros in the Greek, And Cephas in Aramaic.
They mean a stone, See Jn 1: 42.

The Greek meaning for "Peter, Petros," is,
"A stone that is easily moved or shaken".

And Jesus built His Church on, "Petra", Petra means, "A solid foundation".
So Jesus built His Church on "Petra", Not Petros, [Peter].

We can tell what God says by what He doesn't say just as much as by what He says,
PLEASE NOTE, What Jesus DIDN'T SAY,
"Thou art Peter, and upon YOU, I will build My Church"...DID HE??...No..NO.
He said, Thou art Peter and upon this OTHER ROCK, I will build My Church.

The "Rock" That Jesus built His Church on, Is the rock of revelation knowledge, Not Peter.

Jesus gave the key to Peter, The disciples AND The Church.

Note what Jesus said,
"I will build My Church on Petra, "A solid foundation", And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,
And I will give thee [The Church] the keys of the Kingdom of heaven".

Jesus built His Church on the Apostles and Prophets Eph 2: 20, Which proves your theory wrong.

If Jesus built His Church on Peter, How come He gave Paul the revelations, So He could teach the Church two thirds of the new testament??.

Those of us who know the Bible, Know that Jesus gave all His disciples authority, Not just Peter or the twelve Apostles,
Lk 10: 1 & 17 -20 shows us that Jesus gave another seventy authority.

[2]Anyone who knows the Bible, Knows Jesus gave every believer the authority.

Alanforchrist said:
[1]Peter in Aramaic is, Cephas [A small stone] And Jesus build His Church on Petra, [A solid foundation].

PLEASE READ THIS AGAIN,

The Greek and Aramaic words for Peter are, Petros in the Greek, And Cephas in Aramaic.
They mean a stone, See Jn 1: 42.

The Greek meaning for "Peter, Petros," is,
"A stone that is easily moved or shaken".

And Jesus built His Church on, "Petra", Petra means, "A solid foundation".
So Jesus built His Church on "Petra", Not Petros, [Peter].

We can tell what God says by what He doesn't say just as much as by what He says,
PLEASE NOTE, What Jesus DIDN'T SAY,
"Thou art Peter, and upon YOU, I will build My Church"...DID HE??...No..NO.
He said, Thou art Peter and upon this OTHER ROCK, I will build My Church.

Besides, In the Greek, There are numbers, Persons, subjects and verbs, And they all have to agree to form a doctrine.
And Peter,Cephas, Petros doesn't agree in number or persons with, Rock and Petra.

So it is imposible for Jesus to have built His Church on Peter.

The "Rock" That Jesus built His Church on, Is the rock of revelation knowledge, Not Peter.

Jesus gave the key to Peter, The disciples AND The Church.

Note what Jesus said,
"I will build My Church on Petra, "A solid foundation", And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,
And I will give thee [The Church] the keys of the Kingdom of heaven".

Jesus built His Church on the Apostles and Prophets Eph 2: 20, Which proves your theory wrong.

If Jesus built His Church on Peter, How come He gave Paul the revelations, So He could teach the Church two thirds of the new testament??.

Those of us who know the Bible, Know that Jesus gave all His disciples authority, Not just Peter or the twelve Apostles,
Lk 10: 1 & 17 -20 shows us that Jesus gave another seventy authority.

[2]Anyone who knows the Bible, Knows Jesus gave every believer the authority.

Selene · Nov 23, 2012

Christ spoke Aramaic. When He spoke to Peter, He said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." If Christ wanted to call Peter a small pebble, He would have used the word "Evna", which is Aramaic for "small pebble." But He used the word "Cephas", which means 'massive stone" and then again used "Cephas" upon which to build His Church.

As for "Petros", that is the masculine form for the "Petra." The Greek translators is not going to give Simon the feminine name "Petra" so ended up choosing the masculine form.

Those of us who know the Bible knows that Jesus gave St. Peter authority.

1. It was only Peter whom Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This keys symbolized authority.

The steward in a royal household appears throughout the Old Testament record. The Patriarch Joseph works with a steward in the palace in Egypt. King Saul has a steward as does the prince Mephibosheth, but the most important image of steward in the Old Testament for understanding Matthew 16 is in Isaiah 22.

There the prophet foretells the fall of one royal steward and teh succession of another. Shebna is being replaced by Eliakim, and the prophet says to the rejected Shebna, "I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the keys to the house of David, what he opens no one can shut and what he shuts no one can open" (Isaiah 22:21-22).

The true holder of the keys to the kingdom is the king Himself and in the Book of Revelations we see that the risen and glorified Christ holds the power of the keys - the power to bind and loose (Revelations 1:18). So the king holds the keys of the kingdom, but He delegates His power to the steward, and the keys of the kingdom are the symbol of this delegated authority. It is clear from Scripture that St. Peter was the ONLY one who received this key from Christ.

2. St. Peter and ONLY St. Peter was told three times by Christ to take care of his entire sheep (John 21:15-17).

3. In the Holy Bible, Peter is always named the first and Judas Iscariot is always named the last among the 12 (Mark 3:16-17, Matthew 10:2, Luke 6:13-14, and Acts 1:13).

4. St. Peter is shown a sign of respect by the Apostle John. John was the first to reach the empty tomb, but he did not enter it. He waited for Peter and allowed Peter to enter the tomb first (John 20:3-8).

5. The tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus tax, thereby making Peter the spokesman for Jesus. (Matthew 17:24-25)

6. Jesus pays the half shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter thereby making Peter His representative on earth (Matthew 17:24-25).

7. Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples as in Matthew 19:27, Mark 10:28, Mark 11:21.

8. Jesus prays for Peter alone that his faith may be strength and charges him with strengthening the rest of the Apostles (Luke 22:31-32).

9. Peter's shadow has healing power. No other Apostle is said to have this power (Acts 5:15).

10. Although St. Paul was called the Apostle of the Gentiles, it was Peter who baptized the first Gentiles (Acts 10)

11. St. Peter was the first to speak after Pentecost and the first to preach the Gospel (Acts 2:14)

12. Peter works the first healing of the Apostles (Acts 3:6-7).

These are only a few examples from the Bible showing St. Peter's leadership over the Apostles. There are many many more.

Axehead · Nov 24, 2012

Look, it's really quite simple and you don't need to understand greek or hebrew or aramaic. You only need to compare spiritual things with spiritual things and have the Holy Spirit who will give you understanding.

When one starts going into Aramaic and Greek, you know "something" is up.

Now, follow me carefully here and you will realize what Peter realized because it was revealed to him by the Spirit.

Jewish men grew up hearing the scriptures and always knew that God was the ROCK. The revelation that Peter received from the Holy Spirit was that JESUS CHRIST was that ROCK, and thus He was GOD. And this is the same revelation that every person needs to received in order to be born from above by the Spirit into the Church of Jesus Christ. The ROCK, the Chief Cornerstone was standing right in front of Peter and this is what Peter realized.

Let's look at some verses that Peter was familiar with:

Question: Who are these verses speaking of? Hint (it's not Peter).

Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deu_32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness, then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
Deu_32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Deu_32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
Deu_32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Sa_23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Sa_18:31 For who is God save the LORD or who is a rock save our God?
Psa_18:46 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock, and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
Psa_28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock, be not silent to me lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
Psa_31:2 Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily, be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me.
Psa_31:3 For thou art my rock and my fortress, therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.
Psa_78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

Well that is quite enough. I am sure you get the idea (at least I hope so) and you now understand what Peter grew up understanding.

Now, let's look at some prophecies of Peter becoming the Rock upon which the church is built:
1)

Ok, do we understand each other? So there you have it. Now the end of the matter is this:
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus Christ was that spiritual rock and Peter just realized it!!

Alanforchrist · Nov 24, 2012

Selene said:
Christ spoke Aramaic. When He spoke to Peter, He said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." If Christ wanted to call Peter a small pebble, He would have used the word "Evna", which is Aramaic for "small pebble." But He used the word "Cephas", which means 'massive stone" and then again used "Cephas" upon which to build His Church.

[font=lucida sans unicode']As for "Petros", that is the masculine form for the "Petra." The Greek translators is not going to give Simon the feminine name "Petra" so ended up choosing the masculine form. [/font]

Those of us who know the Bible knows that Jesus gave St. Peter authority.

[font=lucida sans unicode']1. It was only Peter whom Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This keys symbolized authority. [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']The steward in a royal household appears throughout the Old Testament record. The Patriarch Joseph works with a steward in the palace in Egypt. King Saul has a steward as does the prince Mephibosheth, but the most important image of steward in the Old Testament for understanding Matthew 16 is in Isaiah 22. [/font]

There the prophet foretells the fall of one royal steward and teh succession of another. Shebna is being replaced by Eliakim, and the prophet says to the rejected Shebna, "I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the keys to the house of David, what he opens no one can shut and what he shuts no one can open" (Isaiah 22:21-22).

The true holder of the keys to the kingdom is the king Himself and in the Book of Revelations we see that the risen and glorified Christ holds the power of the keys - the power to bind and loose (Revelations 1:18). So the king holds the keys of the kingdom, but He delegates His power to the steward, and the keys of the kingdom are the symbol of this delegated authority. It is clear from Scripture that St. Peter was the ONLY one who received this key from Christ.

2. St. Peter and ONLY St. Peter was told three times by Christ to take care of his entire sheep (John 21:15-17).

3. In the Holy Bible, Peter is always named the first and Judas Iscariot is always named the last among the 12 (Mark 3:16-17, Matthew 10:2, Luke 6:13-14, and Acts 1:13).

4. St. Peter is shown a sign of respect by the Apostle John. John was the first to reach the empty tomb, but he did not enter it. He waited for Peter and allowed Peter to enter the tomb first (John 20:3-8).

5. The tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus tax, thereby making Peter the spokesman for Jesus. (Matthew 17:24-25)

6. Jesus pays the half shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter thereby making Peter His representative on earth (Matthew 17:24-25).

7. Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples as in Matthew 19:27, Mark 10:28, Mark 11:21.

8. Jesus prays for Peter alone that his faith may be strength and charges him with strengthening the rest of the Apostles (Luke 22:31-32).

9. Peter's shadow has healing power. No other Apostle is said to have this power (Acts 5:15).

10. Although St. Paul was called the Apostle of the Gentiles, it was Peter who baptized the first Gentiles (Acts 10)

11. St. Peter was the first to speak after Pentecost and the first to preach the Gospel (Acts 2:14)

12. Peter works the first healing of the Apostles (Acts 3:6-7).

[font=lucida sans unicode']These are only a few examples from the Bible showing St. Peter's leadership over the Apostles. There are many many more. [/font]

[1]Jesus never said,"You are Cephas and upon Cephas I will build My Church",
He said,
"You are Peter Cephas, Petros", Which means a stone that is easily moved or shaken.
Didn't Peter prove it??.
He denied Jesus.
He lied.
He had to be rebuked by Paul.

Jesus said, "Thou are Peter, Cephas, Petros, And I will build My Church on PETRA. Not Petros or cephas.
For the truth, Read my post.

You said
Quote
[font=lucida sans unicode']As for "Petros", that is the masculine form for the "Petra." [/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']End quote.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']So what you are saying is, Peter is a man But Jesus built His Church on a lady.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']A man and a lady are two different sexes.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']Just like the Greek words and meanings of Petra and Petros have two different meanings.[/font]
Petra and Petros are two different Greek word with two tottally different meanings.
And Petros has the same meaning as Cephes, A stone, Jn 1: 42.
Whereas Petra, Means a solid foundation.

[2]Peter wasn't the only one that was told to feed God's people,
Paul told the Elders at Ephesus to feed the flock, Acts 20: 17--28
The Pastor's job is to feed the sheep.

For the truth, See my other post on the subject

kepha31 said:
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
more here

Anyone who knows the Bible knows that authority to teach given to all disciples can't be found, and there is only one set of keys, not 12, and not 12 + 70.
.

But not the same authority He gave to Peter and the Apostles. That much should be obvious.

There are four reasons why Jesus coun't have built His Church on Peter.
[1]Because Jesus never said He did.
Jesus and the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, Is the rock that Jesus built His Church.

Jesus said, "You are Peter, And upon this OTHER rock, I wll build My Church".

[2]Because the Greeks words for Peter and the Rock are different with different meanings.
The Greek word for, "Rock", Is, "Petra",
It means [A solid firm foundation]
The Greek word for "Peter", Is, "Petros".
It means, [A stone that is easily moved or shaken].
Didn't Peter prove it.

Two different Greek words, Two different meanings.

[3]The Aramaic word for, "Rock", Is, "Shu'a".
Again it means a solid firm foundation.
The Aramaic word for "Peter" is, Cephas, Or Ketha, Or Kefa.
It means [A small movable stone].

Two different Aramaic words, Two different meanings.

[4]In the Greek, There are persons and numbers, And the Persons and the numbers have to agree with each other to build a doctrine.
And the person,& number for, "Peter and Petros", Doesn't agree with "The rock which Jesus built His Church on".

Selene said:
Christ spoke Aramaic. When He spoke to Peter, He said, "You are Cephas (rock) and on this Cephas (rock), I will build my Church." If Christ wanted to call Peter a small pebble, He would have used the word "Evna", which is Aramaic for "small pebble." But He used the word "Cephas", which means 'massive stone" and then again used "Cephas" upon which to build His Church.

[font=lucida sans unicode']As for "Petros", that is the masculine form for the "Petra." The Greek translators is not going to give Simon the feminine name "Petra" so ended up choosing the masculine form. [/font]

Those of us who know the Bible knows that Jesus gave St. Peter authority.

[font=lucida sans unicode']1. It was only Peter whom Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. This keys symbolized authority. [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']The steward in a royal household appears throughout the Old Testament record. The Patriarch Joseph works with a steward in the palace in Egypt. King Saul has a steward as does the prince Mephibosheth, but the most important image of steward in the Old Testament for understanding Matthew 16 is in Isaiah 22. [/font]

There the prophet foretells the fall of one royal steward and teh succession of another. Shebna is being replaced by Eliakim, and the prophet says to the rejected Shebna, "I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the keys to the house of David, what he opens no one can shut and what he shuts no one can open" (Isaiah 22:21-22).

The true holder of the keys to the kingdom is the king Himself and in the Book of Revelations we see that the risen and glorified Christ holds the power of the keys - the power to bind and loose (Revelations 1:18). So the king holds the keys of the kingdom, but He delegates His power to the steward, and the keys of the kingdom are the symbol of this delegated authority. It is clear from Scripture that St. Peter was the ONLY one who received this key from Christ.

2. St. Peter and ONLY St. Peter was told three times by Christ to take care of his entire sheep (John 21:15-17).

3. In the Holy Bible, Peter is always named the first and Judas Iscariot is always named the last among the 12 (Mark 3:16-17, Matthew 10:2, Luke 6:13-14, and Acts 1:13).

4. St. Peter is shown a sign of respect by the Apostle John. John was the first to reach the empty tomb, but he did not enter it. He waited for Peter and allowed Peter to enter the tomb first (John 20:3-8).

5. The tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus tax, thereby making Peter the spokesman for Jesus. (Matthew 17:24-25)

6. Jesus pays the half shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter thereby making Peter His representative on earth (Matthew 17:24-25).

7. Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples as in Matthew 19:27, Mark 10:28, Mark 11:21.

8. Jesus prays for Peter alone that his faith may be strength and charges him with strengthening the rest of the Apostles (Luke 22:31-32).

9. Peter's shadow has healing power. No other Apostle is said to have this power (Acts 5:15).

10. Although St. Paul was called the Apostle of the Gentiles, it was Peter who baptized the first Gentiles (Acts 10)

11. St. Peter was the first to speak after Pentecost and the first to preach the Gospel (Acts 2:14)

12. Peter works the first healing of the Apostles (Acts 3:6-7).

[font=lucida sans unicode']These are only a few examples from the Bible showing St. Peter's leadership over the Apostles. There are many many more. [/font]

There are four reasons why Jesus coun't have built His Church on Peter.
[1]Because Jesus never said He did.
Jesus and the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, Is the rock that Jesus built His Church.

Jesus said, "You are Peter, And upon this OTHER rock, I wll build My Church".

[2]Because the Greeks words for Peter and the Rock are different with different meanings.
The Greek word for, "Rock", Is, "Petra",
It means [A solid firm foundation]
The Greek word for "Peter", Is, "Petros".
It means, [A stone that is easily moved or shaken].
Didn't Peter prove it.

Two different Greek words, Two different meanings.

[3]The Aramaic word for, "Rock", Is, "Shu'a".
Again it means a solid firm foundation.
The Aramaic word for "Peter" is, Cephas, Or Ketha, Or Kefa.
It means [A small movable stone].

Two different Aramaic words, Two different meanings.

[4]In the Greek, There are persons and numbers, And the Persons and the numbers have to agree with each other to build a doctrine.
And the person,& number for, "Peter and Petros", Doesn't agree with "The rock which Jesus built His Church on".

Axehead · Nov 24, 2012

Alanforchrist said:
[1]Jesus never said,"You are Cephas and upon Cephas I will build My Church",
He said,
"You are Peter Cephas, Petros", Which means a stone that is easily moved or shaken.
Didn't Peter prove it??.
He denied Jesus.
He lied.
He had to be rebuked by Paul.

Jesus said, "Thou are Peter, Cephas, Petros, And I will build My Church on PETRA. Not Petros or cephas.
For the truth, Read my post.

You said
Quote
[font=lucida sans unicode']As for "Petros", that is the masculine form for the "Petra." [/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']End quote.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']So what you are saying is, Peter is a man But Jesus built His Church on a lady.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']A man and a lady are two different sexes.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']Just like the Greek words and meanings of Petra and Petros have two different meanings.[/font]
Petra and Petros are two different Greek word with two tottally different meanings.
And Petros has the same meaning as Cephes, A stone, Jn 1: 42.
Whereas Petra, Means a solid foundation.

[2]Peter wasn't the only one that was told to feed God's people,
Paul told the Elders at Ephesus to feed the flock, Acts 20: 17--28
The Pastor's job is to feed the sheep.

For the truth, See my other post on the subject

There are four reasons why Jesus coun't have built His Church on Peter.
[1]Because Jesus never said He did.
Jesus and the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, Is the rock that Jesus built His Church.

Jesus said, "You are Peter, And upon this OTHER rock, I wll build My Church".

[2]Because the Greeks words for Peter and the Rock are different with different meanings.
The Greek word for, "Rock", Is, "Petra",
It means [A solid firm foundation]
The Greek word for "Peter", Is, "Petros".
It means, [A stone that is easily moved or shaken].
Didn't Peter prove it.

Two different Greek words, Two different meanings.

[3]The Aramaic word for, "Rock", Is, "Shu'a".
Again it means a solid firm foundation.
The Aramaic word for "Peter" is, Cephas, Or Ketha, Or Kefa.
It means [A small movable stone].

Two different Aramaic words, Two different meanings.

[4]In the Greek, There are persons and numbers, And the Persons and the numbers have to agree with each other to build a doctrine.
And the person,& number for, "Peter and Petros", Doesn't agree with "The rock which Jesus built His Church on".

There are four reasons why Jesus coun't have built His Church on Peter.
[1]Because Jesus never said He did.
Jesus and the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, Is the rock that Jesus built His Church.

Jesus said, "You are Peter, And upon this OTHER rock, I wll build My Church".

[2]Because the Greeks words for Peter and the Rock are different with different meanings.
The Greek word for, "Rock", Is, "Petra",
It means [A solid firm foundation]
The Greek word for "Peter", Is, "Petros".
It means, [A stone that is easily moved or shaken].
Didn't Peter prove it.

Two different Greek words, Two different meanings.

[3]The Aramaic word for, "Rock", Is, "Shu'a".
Again it means a solid firm foundation.
The Aramaic word for "Peter" is, Cephas, Or Ketha, Or Kefa.
It means [A small movable stone].

Two different Aramaic words, Two different meanings.

[4]In the Greek, There are persons and numbers, And the Persons and the numbers have to agree with each other to build a doctrine.
And the person,& number for, "Peter and Petros", Doesn't agree with "The rock which Jesus built His Church on".

And yet, we really don't have a need for the Aramaic or Greek in this instance because ALL SCRIPTURE testifies as to WHO the ROCK is.

This verse stands as a testimony and a witness against the Catholic church.
1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is the same greek word (not that it matters) that was used in Matthew 16:18. We have far too many scriptures in the Bible which identify the true Rock.

Alanforchrist · Nov 24, 2012

Axehead said:
And yet, we really don't have a need for the Aramaic or Greek in this instance because ALL SCRIPTURE testifies as to WHO the ROCK is.

This verse stands as a testimony and a witness against the Catholic church.
1Pe_2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It is the same greek word (not that it matters) that was used in Matthew 16:18. We have far too many scriptures in the Bible which identify the true Rock.

That is true, Even the Greek and the Aramaic link the rock to Jesus and a stone to Peter.
So, We have the Bible, Greek and Aramaic all agreeing that Jesus never built His Church on Peter.

dragonfly · Nov 24, 2012

From Michelson's enhanced Strong's, regarding Matthew 16:18

Peter

G4074 Πέτρος Petros (pet'-ros) n/p.

1. a (piece of) rock
2. as a name, Petrus, an apostle
{larger than G3037}
[apparently a primary word]
KJV: Peter, rock

Compare: G3037, G2786

rock

G4073 πέτρa petra (pet'-ra) n.

1. a (mass of) rock
{literally or figuratively}
[feminine of the same as G4074]
KJV: rock

Root(s): G4074

Alanforchrist · Nov 24, 2012

dragonfly said:
From Michelson's enhanced Strong's, regarding Matthew 16:18

Peter

G4074 Πέτρος Petros (pet'-ros) n/p.

1. a (piece of) rock
2. as a name, Petrus, an apostle
{larger than G3037}
[apparently a primary word]
KJV: Peter, rock

Compare: G3037, G2786

rock

G4073 πέτρa petra (pet'-ra) n.

1. a (mass of) rock
{literally or figuratively}
[feminine of the same as G4074]
KJV: rock

Root(s): G4074

Greek, Peter, [A stone].
Aramaic, Peter, [A stone]
KJV, Peter, [ A stone] Jn 1: 42.

Peter, Petros, [Greek].
Cephes, [Aramaic]
A small stone that is easily moved or shaken.

The Rock that Jesus built His Church on.
Greek, [Petra].
Aramaic, [Shu'a]
KJV, [Rock.

There is absolutely no way Jesus could have build His Church on Peter.

Axehead · Nov 24, 2012

Alanforchrist said:
Greek, Peter, [A stone].
Aramaic, Peter, [A stone]
KJV, Peter, [ A stone] Jn 1: 42.

Peter, Petros, [Greek].
Cephes, [Aramaic]
A small stone that is easily moved or shaken.

The Rock that Jesus built His Church on.
Greek, [Petra].
Aramaic, [Shu'a]
KJV, [Rock.

There is absolutely no way Jesus could have build His Church on Peter.

Very much agree with you and Dragonfly, Alan.

But, of course you're "singing to the choir". The RCC has their own choir, but I don't recognize the song.

neophyte · Nov 24, 2012

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
more here

copied from kepha's post of Nov.17- it is explained in detailed, Jesus made Peter the rock and Jesus gives the keys to Peter, the Keys gave authority to Christ's Church on earth being that Peter was in charge [ shepherd ] of Christ's Church on earth until his successor became Peter's successor upon Peter's death , so on down through successors until the Real Shepherd returns.No problem in that, the only problem is when anti-Catholics try to claim that Jesus never spoke Aramaic.

dragonfly · Nov 24, 2012

Hi Axehead,

This is a response to your OP.

Please read this description from Exodus, of the shoulders of the High Priest's garment.

Exodus 28:9 And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel: 10 Six of their names on one stone, and [the other] six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth. 11 With the work of an engraver in stone, [like] the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in ouches of gold. 12 And thou shalt put the two stones upon the shoulders of the ephod [for] stones of memorial to the children of Israel: and Aaron shall bear their names before the LORD upon his two shoulders for a memorial.

The twelve tribes appear on the breastplate of judgment, also:

15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, and [of] fine twined linen, shalt thou make it. 16 Foursquare it shall be [being] doubled; a span [shall be] the length thereof, and a span [shall be] the breadth thereof. 17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, [even] four rows of stones: [the first] row [shall be] a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: [this shall be] the first row. {sardius: or, ruby} 18 And the second row [shall be] an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. 19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. 20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings. 21 And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, [like] the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goes in to the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually. 30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goes in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

36 And thou shalt make a plate [of] pure gold, and grave upon it, [like] the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. 37 And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. 38 And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.

In simple terms, there were three places the High Priest was to bear the names of the children of Israel to the Lord - his head, his shoulders and his heart. It was a burden of responsibility. It was not about lording himself over them. He was from among them, himself. In his case, his own iniquity was included in all that was borne before the Lord.

How stones work with keys, is a matter of revelation, I'd say.

You mentioned the 'keys' in Revelation, and the key of David is mentioned in Rev 3:7; but there are also the keys of death and hell, which Jesus Christ took from Satan in His battle on the cross.

Revelation 1: '... And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Seeing the link between stones and names in Exodus 28, and how they were to be part of the High Priests garments 'for beauty and for glory', this is an interesting verse from Revelation 2:17 He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives [it].

I have heard it mentioned in a sermon, that the new name is to do with a person's calling, which God makes known to only them. The white stone is to do with innocence - justification by faith.

Over to you. B)

Alanforchrist · Nov 25, 2012

neophyte said:
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
more here

copied from kepha's post of Nov.17- it is explained in detailed, Jesus made Peter the rock and Jesus gives the keys to Peter, the Keys gave authority to Christ's Church on earth being that Peter was in charge [ shepherd ] of Christ's Church on earth until his successor became Peter's successor upon Peter's death , so on down through successors until the Real Shepherd returns.No problem in that, the only problem is when anti-Catholics try to claim that Jesus never spoke Aramaic.

Jesus never said, "You are Kepha, and upon Kepha I will build My Church"

I gues you didn't read my post.
Here it is again.

Greek, Peter, [A stone].
Aramaic, Peter, [A stone]
KJV, Peter, [ A stone] Jn 1: 42.

Peter, Petros, [Greek].
Cephes, [Aramaic]
A small stone that is easily moved or shaken.

The Rock that Jesus built His Church on.
Greek, [Petra].
Aramaic, [Shu'a]
KJV, [Rock.

There is absolutely no way Jesus could have build His Church on Peter.

The Bible makes it clear enough to everyone accept the catholics, That Peter means, "A Stone", Jn 1: 42.

catholics have to argue with God, the Scriptures , the Greek and the Aramaic.
Because Matt 16: 18--19 are the scriptures the whole catholic religion stands on,
If Matt 16: 18--19 doesn't mean Jesus build His Church on Peter, [Which it doesn't], It proves there is no catholic church, And no pope.
catholics are the only ones that I have seen who twist the Greek and Aramaic texts.

Selene · Nov 25, 2012

Alanforchrist said:
Jesus never said, "You are Kepha, and upon Kepha I will build My Church"

I gues you didn't read my post.
Here it is again.

Greek, Peter, [A stone].
Aramaic, Peter, [A stone]
KJV, Peter, [ A stone] Jn 1: 42.

Peter, Petros, [Greek].
Cephes, [Aramaic]
A small stone that is easily moved or shaken.

The Rock that Jesus built His Church on.
Greek, [Petra].
Aramaic, [Shu'a]
KJV, [Rock.

There is absolutely no way Jesus could have build His Church on Peter.

The Bible makes it clear enough to everyone accept the catholics, That Peter means, "A Stone", Jn 1: 42.

catholics have to argue with God, the Scriptures , the Greek and the Aramaic.
Because Matt 16: 18--19 are the scriptures the whole catholic religion stands on,
If Matt 16: 18--19 doesn't mean Jesus build His Church on Peter, [Which it doesn't], It proves there is no catholic church, And no pope.
catholics are the only ones that I have seen who twist the Greek and Aramaic texts.

In Aramaic, a small stone is "Evna." Christ did not say to Peter, "You are Evna and on this Cephas I will build my Church." Peter's name is "Cephas".....which is the same as "Rock".

The Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven

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