Answering Objections to Physical Healing in the Atonement

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lesjude

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Answering Objections to Healing In the Atonement
There is much confusion among Christians on the issue of divine healing and many say this was not in Christ's atonement or has ceased.


Below is an objection to divine healing in Christ's atonement:

. Christ’s bearing our sins and sickness in Isaiah 53:3-4 is a serious misapplication of Scripture. Sickness is only one of the many ultimate effects of man’s sin. Jesus took the cause of all of our sufferings, sin, upon Himself at the cross in order to rid us ultimately of all of its effects. It is illogical to affirm that for any or all of the effects to be abolished it would be necessary for Him to bear any one of the effects (such as sickness) along with the cause

Here is why it is not a misapplication:

One reason is the atonement was not a dual work but one complete work. Sickness came into the world through sin and Isaiah 53:4 clearly includes the provision for healing of sicknesses and pains in the context of the atonement. Jesus explains the linkage and His willingness to heal sickness and forgive sin in Matthew 9:1-8. The correct translation of the Hebrew word for griefs is sicknesses and for sorrows it is pains in Isaiah 53:4. The correct translation of these words is given in Matthew 8:16-17 in reference to Isaiah 53:4.

No one will need physical healing in heaven assuming they get there. So logically when might healing be for? Sinners will need it after death but not be able to receive it in the part of sheol reserved for them, or after being dumped in the lake of fire.
Illogical? If one says he bore away sin which is the root of sickness and healing is not needed in heaven then where is the logic? He bore our sins and our sicknesses as a substitute for us. Unless of course one believes as the WOF heretics teach that He became a sinner on the cross not a sinless sacrifice as our substitute. They also say he physically had all diseases on the cross as well!


Another argument against healing in Christ's cross:

Healing in Isaiah 53:4-5 was for sins only.
Isaiah 53 is a spiritual context and theme. It is about Christs intercessory work between God and man it is argued.
In the New Testament they note that Peter quotes this from Isaiah.
1 Peter 2:24
“And He himself bore our sins (not sickness) in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

Here is the reality:
Peter is referencing the full atonement when he uses "healed" which includes sin vs. 5 and sickness vs. 4. It says specifically He has borne our sicknesses and pains in verse 4. The Greek word iatros for physician is derived from the Greek verb iaomai Peter used in 1 Peter 2:24. Iaomai is used 22 times in the NT to mean physical treatment/healing. An example is Matthew 15:28. God reveals Himself as Yahweh Rapha in Exodus 15:25 meaning physician, healer of sicknesses.

Here is the view that argues that healing ended with Christ's earthly ministry because it was 'fulfilled':

And when evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed, and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill in order that what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, ‘He Himself took our infirmities, and carried away our diseases.’ Matthew 8:16-17
It is argued that while Isaiah 53:4 does refer to physical healing, its fulfillment was in the healing ministry of Jesus before the atonement, as noted in Matthew 8:16-17 and not provided on the cross or ongoing after His ministry, and therefore it offers no guarantee of healing to us today.

Here is why the above assertion is wrong:

First Jesus is alive and still doing the same "ministry" for His disciples and through them. Jesus forgave sin and healed all through the OT and in the NT BEFORE His atonement on the basis of that future atonement. He could do that because the Godhead saw it as finished from the plan of redemption in Genesis 1:3-5; actually before that as the central part of God's Predestined plan Revelation 13:8. So to say Jesus stopped healing after the atonement is to to say He has changed as a result of the actual event happening! It is as logical to say He stopped forgiving sins after the atonement as well which of course is not true. He still does both. Hebrews 13:8.
Matthew used the Greek aorist subjunctive "pelrothe" in both Matthew 8: 16-17 and Matthew 12:17-21 which signifies future events that must certainly come to pass, not the aorist indicative denoting momentary completed past action in referring to the prophecies of Isaiah 42:1-4 and Isaiah 53:4. The Holy Spirit was stating these things meaning all Isaiah said about the atonement and the gentiles coming to Christ before the events happened would surely come to pass and continue.The Holy Spirit did not make a mistake in Matthew 12:17-21 in referring to the gentiles believing as being "fulfilled" by Christ's earthly ministry any more then He did in Matthew 8:16-17. Both are still ongoing; the gentiles are still trusting Jesus.
Christ is still healing by the means stated in Mark 11:24, Matthew 18:19, James 5:14-15, Acts 19:12, Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8. In fact He even heals sinners AND raises them from the dead through "those who believe".
Physical healing is all through the book of Acts so it did not end with Christ earthly ministry. It is as needed today to confirm the preaching of gospel to sinners and in the church as it was then.
 

IanLC

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I believe in physical healing because I have seen Jesus do it! My grandmother had heart disease in 2000 and the doctors did give up on her. the virus progressed and led to her death. The line went flat and she was literally dead for a few minutes but after we prayed Jesus allowed her to live again. She is with me to this day! Hallelujah, thank you Jesus!

Also, one of our church mothers had literally died 3 times and each time they put her in the body bag and placed her in the morge. Yet each time she came back to life by the power of the Holy Spirit and when she died finally many didnit believe it until we seen her in her casket!

Another member of my church she had cancer in 2008 and was healed from it. Yet recently this year in August she was placed in the hospital because where the radiation she had taken had burned her lungs and she could not breath and was hooked to a venalator. Here in North Carolina they only allow you two weeks on the venalator. Yet the day they were going to taker her off of it she took it off herself and was breathing fine and moving and doing. A week later she was released from hospice! So no man or anybody can not tell me that Jesus is not a healer! For I have experienced it and His word says that He is!
 

lesjude

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May 8, 2012
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I believe in physical healing because I have seen Jesus do it! My grandmother had heart disease in 2000 and the doctors did give up on her. the virus progressed and led to her death. The line went flat and she was literally dead for a few minutes but after we prayed Jesus allowed her to live again. She is with me to this day! Hallelujah, thank you Jesus!

Also, one of our church mothers had literally died 3 times and each time they put her in the body bag and placed her in the morge. Yet each time she came back to life by the power of the Holy Spirit and when she died finally many didnit believe it until we seen her in her casket!

Another member of my church she had cancer in 2008 and was healed from it. Yet recently this year in August she was placed in the hospital because where the radiation she had taken had burned her lungs and she could not breath and was hooked to a venalator. Here in North Carolina they only allow you two weeks on the venalator. Yet the day they were going to taker her off of it she took it off herself and was breathing fine and moving and doing. A week later she was released from hospice! So no man or anybody can not tell me that Jesus is not a healer! For I have experienced it and His word says that He is!
Thank you for the testimonies. I am blessed and encouraged. We had a similar experience with an elderly family member who the doctors gave up to die. We ministered Jesus to her, she lived 2 more years and received salvation just before she died at age 89. Here is what we have lived for 35 years:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/15884-our-testimonynormal-christianity/
 

martinlawrencescott

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Apr 6, 2011
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I have never seen a physical healing with my own eyes. Of course, that doesn't distract what I believe because of what scripture says. I believe healing exists today, but that it should look like it did during Jesus' ministry. I don't necessarily mean "how" it looked, because it's dangerous to box the Holy Spirit concerning a method. However, by looking at Jesus ministry I've learned a few concepts which I haven't learned from experience, but I thought I'd put out there to see if you agree.

-Healing can be symbolic and specific. It can be a sign of health and faith within a church, culture, nation, a single person, or family- or even a sign of the times, depending on how it is performed if God uses someone as a vessel to do the healing.
-Sometimes demonic activity needs to be challenged before healing can occur on the above mentioned levels.
-God doesn't always perform complete physical healing at the point of salvation, but saves it for another time.
-Sometimes an infirmity is used by God to bless someone's faith both before and when it's healed.
-Physical passing is kind of the cure all concerning life in this body for a believer.
-There could be 100 sick people in a crowd, but Jesus might choose just one. He had to be obedient to God in His healing, and couldn't heal everyone at the same time, or in a word, according to His obedience to the Father. Similarly, I believe obedience is paramount to healing today, as it is a sign of faith. Usually a sick person can be accused of having no faith when they are sick and not receiving healing, when it could be the obedience on part of another within the body of Christ which they are waiting on, or else their healing might be postponed or done exclusively by God through the Spirit.
-I believe healing "Must" occur if the illness or ailment is in complete conflict with a persons' ministry. If God has called someone to do something, and their physical ailment keeps them from this, something has got to give.
-There is a part of personal faith if God requires it of us to be healed. I think sometimes he just does it in His sovereignty, regardless of the faith of anyone involved, if and when it benefits the faith of those involved.

I do include our medicine and healing in God's healing. If it's good, then it's from God. However, our methods don't always benefit faith and can detract from God's glory which he should receive for all healing. We can't heal apart from Him.

Healing can't be separated from faith and obedience, as seen from Jesus' ministry. Of course it is by the Spirit and not our own works. If healing can't be separated from faith, then God may wait to heal us until a certain time in our lives as an act of continuing our sanctification and growing us up in faith.

My personal experience was that I struggled with chronic depression from a time shortly after I received Christ (about 1 year after), and it continued through most of my teen years. It culminated in a suicide attempt after I took myself off the medication which I hated because it made me gain a ton of weight, which hurt my self esteem. When I was 19, I was at the altar at church, praying. All I prayed was, "God, please minister to my mind." All of a sudden I felt an explosion of euphoria in my head. It was fairly unexplainable. No one had really laid their hands on me or anything, as it was private and internal, but people over the coming weeks kept mentioning to my family what a change they saw in my character and disposition. I felt moments after my healing that God whispered to me my calling as a speaker. That kind of made ironic sense to me because I was always so quiet. Though I haven't realized this calling yet, I understood that I first needed something to talk about, which I'm in the processes of living out.
 

mark s

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If your assertion was true - that we receive physical healing by Christ's death - the same as we receive salvation - then no true Christians would ever have any disease, deformity, nothing.

Faith that brings salvation would be faith that brings healing.

Yet even in the Bible not all were healed. Not even Paul was healed.

Certain God heals us. As He chooses, and not everyone is automatically healed of everything.

But, I expect you will argue, we have to have enough faith to be healed. So, I will reply, faith can be sufficient for salvation - eternal life, a new creation, a child of God - but insufficient for healing - repairing a malfunctioning piece of flesh? Where do you get that idea?

It is a cruel thing, imo, to tell people they would be healed if there wasn't something wrong with their faith, when the reality is that God works even through these to build for us eternal glory.

Love in Christ,
Mark
 

martinlawrencescott

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I would agree that the same faith for salvation would be the same for healing. I've seen situations though where Christians lose faith after salvation. Salvation by faith doesn't always mean faithful thereafter. God doesn't require our faith to heal us, but he sometimes chooses our faith (as seen in Jesus' ministry) as a factor in our healing. How would we know if God wants to heal us according to our faith, well... by faith of course and relationship with him according to obedience to scripture. Several people mentioned in scripture whom Jesus healed, knew He would based on His character. How would they know His character? Because they knew God and vice versa.

The same faith God might choose as a factor in our healing, he may choose as a factor in the perfecting of our faith until the time we are healed. It's personal and it's best not to judge another person's healing, just as it's better not to judge someone else's faith on an inner level, unless by the spirit we're given knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have by just looking at someone. Mostly, it's for our personal knowledge to have faith that God can heal our infirmities, another to know why and when God would heal our infirmities, another to know if I in loving obedience agree with God's plan to sanctify my faith through the suffering of my infirmities, then another to know his healing by faith has already occurred because of Christ's work in my life as signified by the spirit living in me.
 

Axehead

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God has His own ways in each of our lives of trying and testing us to reveal if our faith is real or not. He knows which is which, but it is important to Him to show us what or who we are really trusting in.

1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever and where there is no unbelief He is doing mighty miracles on earth.

Mat_13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.


Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

If the elders of the church have unbelief, then their prayer won't help you.


Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Axehead
 

7angels

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THIS is an issue very close to my heart. i have been called into this ministry of signs, miracles, and wonders. i have seen as well as healed various sicknesses and diseases. i have found to my dismay that many christians are living far below what God has for them. why this is could be for many reasons. some of which are unbelief, no revelation, lack of faith, and ect. list list goes on and on but God id a God that never changes. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. the word tell us God's will should be happening on earth as it is in heaven. there is no sickness or disease in heaven so there should not be any on earth but satan has done a great job at convincing people otherwise. but even that has been prophesied within the bible that deception will leak into the church and there will be many false teachers who teach contrary to the word of God. these false teachings begin with 99% truth and 1% wrong teachings and soon if this continues we could be so far from the truth that it is unbelievable.

some believe that sometimes an infirmity is used by God to bless someone's faith both before and when it's healed or if it is even healed. God would never use an illness to bless someone. God may bless a person who has an illness but God will never use evil to bring good. for God according to scripture only brings good and not evil. if God gave people sicknesses to bring himself glory then Jesus was in rebellion because Jesus went about healing all those with sicknesses and infirmities but as we know according to the word that Jesus and God the father are of one mind so we know that God will not sent sickness or anything else upon a person.

some people say that there could be 100 sick people in a crowd, but Jesus might choose just one. He had to be obedient to God in His healing, and couldn't heal everyone at the same time, or in a word, according to His obedience to the Father. this is wrong because according to the word of God all things are possible and you have just put a limit upon God which is negating the word of God. and we wonder why God does not do more within our lives. when things are not working in accordance with the word then we need to look at ourselves find out where we are off because we know that God is not in the wrong so that means somewhere we are messed up. this is where prayer and repenting come into play to get us back on track.

some people believe healing "Must" occur if the illness or ailment is in complete conflict with a persons' ministry. if everyone went about believing this for every sickness and infirmity they come across then we would just about wipe out sickness and infirmities from our lives but that is not the case which i am sad to say.

some say that if we receive physical healing by Christ's death - the same as we receive salvation - then no true Christians would ever have any disease, deformity, nothing. this is not necessarily true. every promise within the bible has a condition. even salvation has a condition. it requires that we must believe in Jesus and accept him as our Lord and then salvation will come. so what we need to do is find out the conditions necessary for each promise and see if we are fulfilling them.

some say not even Paul was healed. this is a lecture in and of itself but to sum it up God gave paul an exceptional gift of revelation and paul was worried that it might make him prideful so he tried to get God to get rid of it but God said no that his grace was enough to take care of it.

btw lesjude, that was a good account on healing and i was impressed. i don't see many people who understand it as well as you stated it.

God bless
 
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lesjude

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If your assertion was true - that we receive physical healing by Christ's death - the same as we receive salvation - then no true Christians would ever have any disease, deformity, nothing.
No. There are conditions for healing. Two conditions are faith for that specific healing and exercising that faith as Mark 11:24 and Hebrew Chapter 11 and obedience to the light you have i.e. faithfullnes.

Faith that brings salvation would be faith that brings healing.
Healing is part of the meaning of the Greek word sozo to save. However it brings healing when faith is exercised. see explanation above.

Yet even in the Bible not all were healed. Not even Paul was healed.
The Bible clearly says Paul was healed. All that came to Jesus, even one He told healing was NOT for her, received healing. http://www.christian...t-be-your-will/

http://www.christian...not-a-sickness/

Certain God heals us. As He chooses, and not everyone is automatically healed of everything.

No, there are conditions as I explained. It is ALWAYS his will as the Bible points out but not "automatic".
But, I expect you will argue, we have to have enough faith to be healed. So, I will reply, faith can be sufficient for salvation - eternal life, a new creation, a child of God - but insufficient for healing - repairing a malfunctioning piece of flesh? Where do you get that idea?
Faith comes two ways. Do you know what they are? Romans 10:17 and Jude 20. I was sure I was clear where I got that idea from the OP. Jesus provides it in His atonement and explains how faith can be exercised to receive all the promises included in salvation-sozo. I was specific what these are.
One way I "get the idea" is we have lived it for 35 years.

It is a cruel thing, imo, to tell people they would be healed if there wasn't something wrong with their faith, when the reality is that God works even through these to build for us eternal glory.
Oh really. Jesus rebuked His disciples EVERY TIME they did not exercise faith in what he promised. http://www.christian...endly-is-jesus/

God gets glory from healing not sickness. Persecution for Christ sake and righteousness' sake is what builds for us eternal glory as well as exercising Hebrews 11 faith for all His promises and fruit that remains.


There can be other issues that block healing as I have pointed out. Ignorance of what Jesus promises and provided in His atonement is one which is the point of the OP.
Love in Christ,
Mark

Please read the OP again.
 

martinlawrencescott

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To 7angels-

I am aware most of that was directed at me and my understanding. Jesus chose to be obedient and to suffer so we wouldn't have the choice or freedom to do the same? The other is the assumption that God doesn't suffer. That's not really an argumentative statement I'm making. I appreciate your views.
 

7angels

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you posted many things a lot of people say. so i directed it at them and not you specifically but i do thank you for bringing them up so they could be addressed.

God bless
 

lesjude

New Member
May 8, 2012
217
3
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79
Central New York State
THIS is an issue very close to my heart. i have been called into this ministry of signs, miracles, and wonders. i have seen as well as healed various sicknesses and diseases. i have found to my dismay that many christians are living far below what God has for them. why this is could be for many reasons. some of which are unbelief, no revelation, lack of faith, and ect. list list goes on and on but God id a God that never changes. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. the word tell us God's will should be happening on earth as it is in heaven. there is no sickness or disease in heaven so there should not be any on earth but satan has done a great job at convincing people otherwise. but even that has been prophesied within the bible that deception will leak into the church and there will be many false teachers who teach contrary to the word of God. these false teachings begin with 99% truth and 1% wrong teachings and soon if this continues we could be so far from the truth that it is unbelievable
Our also. We have lived it for 35 years and are believing to see more of Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8.
some believe that sometimes an infirmity is used by God to bless someone's faith both before and when it's healed or if it is even healed. God would never use an illness to bless someone. God may bless a person who has an illness but God will never use evil to bring good. for God according to scripture only brings good and not evil. if God gave people sicknesses to bring himself glory then Jesus was in rebellion because Jesus went about healing all those with sicknesses and infirmities but as we know according to the word that Jesus and God the father are of one mind so we know that God will not sent sickness or anything else upon a person.
Agree
some people say that there could be 100 sick people in a crowd, but Jesus might choose just one. He had to be obedient to God in His healing, and couldn't heal everyone at the same time, or in a word, according to His obedience to the Father. this is wrong because according to the word of God all things are possible and you have just put a limit upon God which is negating the word of God. and we wonder why God does not do more within our lives. when things are not working in accordance with the word then we need to look at ourselves find out where we are off because we know that God is not in the wrong so that means somewhere we are messed up. this is where prayer and repenting come into play to get us back on track.
Agree
some people believe healing "Must" occur if the illness or ailment is in complete conflict with a persons' ministry. if everyone went about believing this for every sickness and infirmity they come across then we would just about wipe out sickness and infirmities from our lives but that is not the case which i am sad to say.
I am not sure what you mean.

some say that if we receive physical healing by Christ's death - the same as we receive salvation - then no true Christians would ever have any disease, deformity, nothing. this is not necessarily true. every promise within the bible has a condition. even salvation has a condition. it requires that we must believe in Jesus and accept him as our Lord and then salvation will come. so what we need to do is find out the conditions necessary for each promise and see if we are fulfilling them.
Agree
some say not even Paul was healed. this is a lecture in and of itself but to sum it up God gave paul an exceptional gift of revelation and paul was worried that it might make him prideful so he tried to get God to get rid of it but God said no that his grace was enough to take care of it
.http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17085-pauls-thorn-was-not-a-sickness/


btw lesjude, that was a good account on healing and i was impressed. i don't see many people who understand it as well as you stated it.

God bless
I praise Jesus for the truth of His word and by grace through faith to apply it.