The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

John_8:32 · Nov 29, 2012

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

70 weeks is 490 days which is 490 years. (Num 14:34 and Exek 4:6)

The decree (there were actually four of them but the one that we count from) went forth in 457 BC. 69 weeks brings us to 27 AD (there is no year 0) the beginning of Christ's ministry. 3-1/2 years later He was crucified in 31 AD. Nothing occurred for the next 3-1/2 years to finsh this week...

to finish the transgression, - Is transgression finished? In a sense it is, since propitiation is made for transgression by Christ's perfect sacrifice.

and to make an end of sins, - The end of sin must be understood in the light of a remedy for sin and that it no longer has dominion.

and to make reconciliation for iniquity, - Obviously this is accomplished

and to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Has not been done yet and will not be done until the resurrection.

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, - This has not been done. The prophecies of Dan 9 - 12 have not been completed and take us from the days of Antiocus IV Epiphanes to Rev 21 and beyond.

and to anoint the most Holy. - Not completed. Christ has not been placed on the throne of David ruling the entire earth. This is the Millenium and beyond.

There is a long lag of 1900+ years between the first half of the week and the second half.

teleiosis · Nov 29, 2012

Rex said:
Then please make a case If you like, but i would appreciate it If you glanced back at what has been said.

It's rather ironic that I find this verse key to end time deception not pointing to it

in short I find 9:27 as being the deception

And when you glance back, notice that King Rex has not only not been able to establish any limited-time covenant ever made by Jesus, he is only on a mission to destroy any eschatology which is futuristic. His motive then is not for discourse and honest appraisal of the verse and its language or any relevant verse concerning this from the Olivet Discourse, Revelation, or Paul's letters to the Theaslonians - but to debunk his enemies who are Pre-Millennial: "prophets" he calls them.

Spirit Covenant · Nov 29, 2012

Rex said:
I see you've accounted for your missing half week. Eating people and drinking blood "zombie movie?" or bible verse?

Bible verses. Many of them. It is the abomination of desolation.

Zechariah 11
9 Then I said, "I will not feed you. Let what is dying die, and what is perishing perish. Let those that are left eat each other's flesh."

Isaiah 9
19 Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts The land is burned up, And the people shall be as fuel for the fire; No man shall spare his brother.
20 And he shall snatch on the right hand And be hungry; He shall devour on the left hand And not be satisfied; Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm.

Lamentations 4
9 Those slain by the sword are better off Than those who die of hunger; For these pine away, Stricken for lack of the fruits of the field.
10 The hands of the compassionate women Have cooked their own children; They became food for them In the destruction of the daughter of my people.

Jeremiah 19
9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and everyone shall eat the flesh of his friend in the siege and in the desperation with which their enemies and those who seek their lives shall drive them to despair." '

Deuteronomy 28
55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.
56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter,
57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.

Matthew 24
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Rex · Nov 29, 2012

John_8:32 said:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

and to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Has not been done yet and will not be done until the resurrection.

Romans 1:16-17
Romans 3:21-26
Romans 10:3-4

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, - This has not been done. The prophecies of Dan 9 - 12 have not been completed and take us from the days of Antiocus IV Epiphanes to Rev 21 and beyond.

This means to bring to completion; to close or finish. With the coming of Jesus and His new covenant, Divine revelation was completed. With the generation who were alive during Jesus' life, we see the last living prophets and prophetesses. With those men and women and the messages given through them,
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Matthew 9:17
Luke 24:27

and to anoint the most Holy. - Not completed. Christ has not been placed on the throne of David ruling the entire earth. This is the Millenium and beyond.

Hebrews 9:11-12
Acts 10:38
Eph 1:20-21
quote John; ruling the entire earth
Its coming in the flesh, but He has completed the prophesy, but as well doen't God rule earth from heaven as well.

The prophesy has been fulfilled NOT ALL prophesy but 9:24-27 has been

dragonfly · Nov 29, 2012

Hebrews 9:11 - 12

This is a refreshing change, which makes a great deal of sense, since the abomination in the Temple may well be a priest of another worship system.

Psalm 133:
1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
for brethren to dwell together in unity!
2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head,
that ran down upon the beard,
even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;
3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion:
for there the Lord commanded the blessing,
even life for evermore.

revturmoil · Nov 29, 2012

This is a refreshing change, which makes a great deal of sense, since the abomination in the Temple may well be a priest of another worship system.

How do you guys come up with this kind of stuff!
How about a Muslim cleric or Imam!

Rex · Nov 29, 2012

kaoticprofit said:
How do you guys come up with this kind of stuff!
How about a Muslim cleric or Imam!

I don't know who your trying to paint with "you guys" but I had nothing to do that comment other than posting a verse.
I believe I gave reason for posting it in a reply.

How about obama!!!!

revturmoil · Nov 29, 2012

Rex said:
I don't know who your truing to paint with "you guys" but I had nothing to do that comment other than posting a verse.
I believe I gave reason for posting it in a reply.

How about obama!!!!

Like I said I don't know how you guys come up with this stuff.
The man of sin will not be an American, European, or Roman.
He will be an Arab/Muslim. He is called "The Assyrian!"

Rex · Nov 29, 2012

kaoticprofit said:
Like I said I don't know how you guys come up with this stuff.
The man of sin will not be an American, European, or Roman.
He will be an Arab/Muslim. He is called "The Assyrian!"

Do you believe everyone to be stupid. You quoted a post and made the same comment
now your saying it was directed at the whole thread? Or simply DF and myself? Please we both know what you meant.

Define you guys

and do you have any likely Muslim AC suspects?

teleiosis said:
And when you glance back, notice that King Rex has not only not been able to establish any limited-time covenant ever made by Jesus, he is only on a mission to destroy any eschatology which is futuristic. His motive then is not for discourse and honest appraisal of the verse and its language or any relevant verse concerning this from the Olivet Discourse, Revelation, or Paul's letters to the Theaslonians - but to debunk his enemies who are Pre-Millennial: "prophets" he calls them.

While I'm at it.
And speaking of people who think their smart.
No one can answer your question unless they believe as you do.

The rest is the first I've heard from you in three pages, so it's simply unsubstantiated MUD.
Thats all you got, mud

Spirit Covenant · Nov 29, 2012

Rex said:
quote John; ruling the entire earth
Its coming in the flesh, but He has completed the prophesy, but as well doen't God rule earth from heaven as well.

The prophesy has been fulfilled NOT ALL prophesy but 9:24-27 has been

It is not finished. The second half of the covenant will still be delivered three and a half years before the destruction of the world and the moving forward into Christs Kingdom at His return.

Rex · Nov 29, 2012

Spirit Covenant said:
It is not finished. The second half of the covenant will still be delivered three and a half years before the destruction of the world and the moving forward into Christs Kingdom at His return.

Believe what you like its not my job to open peoples eyes its my job to present the opportunity

dragonfly · Nov 29, 2012

How do you guys come up with this kind of stuff!
How about a Muslim cleric or Imam!

There are only two kinds of worship system available to man. God defines them as 'worship God', or, 'idolatry'. That's all my comment reflects.

Clearly, the AntiChrist IF he is 'one man', does not worship God, or God would not be about to destroy Him. That's not rocket science.

John_8:32 · Nov 30, 2012

kaoticprofit said:
Like I said I don't know how you guys come up with this stuff.
The man of sin will not be an American, European, or Roman.
He will be an Arab/Muslim. He is called "The Assyrian!"

And the Assyrians have migrated to modern day Germany.

revturmoil · Nov 30, 2012

Do you believe everyone to be stupid.

NO! I believe the devil has his hands wound tight into the churches eschatology because....
There will not be a pre-trib, mid-trib, or pre-wrath rapture.
The man of sin will not be a Romam, European, or American.
The false prophet will not be the Pope and Rome will have nothing to do with end-time prophecy
There will not be a global dictator or empire.
There will not be a peace treaty with Israel.
There will not be a rebuilt temple other than the millennial temple.
There will not be a united world religion of any kind.

Prophecy wasn't written to fool "you guys"! "You guys" fool yourselves!

and do you have any likely Muslim AC suspects?

Saddam...who I think will return.
Ahmadinejad
Assad
I use to think bin laden was the false prophet but I doubt he'll return.
Now I think it's Amadinejad or Ayatollah Ali Khamenei . But that thought could change too.
It really doesn't matter who they are. What matters most is where they'll come from and what religion they are.

The demonic duo will come from the Arab world and is "an Assyrian".
The false prophet will certainly be a Muslim.

John_8:32 said:
And the Assyrians have migrated to modern day Germany.

There are Assyrians all over the US and they are mostly Christians.
When I say that he will be an Assyrian I mean he will come from the ancient land of Assyria....Like SADDAM!

Raeneske · Nov 30, 2012

If Israel was given 490 years to repent, and accept the Messiah, yet they did not, why would God stop the clock?

Ninevah was given 40 days to repent, but they repented which stopped the clock.

Israel's favored nation status ended. The only time God said that his judgement upon them would be ended, is if the nation/place changed their attitude. Did Israel change their attitude? No! Many people did changed, but as a nation, they erred.

The timing is shown, to be consecutive with God's prophecies. There is no reason for the 70th week not to follow the 69th week. There would have been no reason for the 40th day not to follow the 39th day. The 1260th 'day' would follow the 1259th day. The 70th year, followed the 69th year. Every definite time prophecy, time has followed consecutively, and has not ceased. The 70th week, the last seven as some are calling it, has had no reason not to pass. Israel did not fulfill Heaven's desire. She was rejected as a nation. Yet the mercies of God can still be felt by singular people. As Romans 11:5 says, at this present time there is a remnant in Israel. This is the remnant we are to labor for to accept the Messiah. This is not some huge future event, this must take place now, Christians.

Daniel's 70th week being applied to the end of time is a common theological idea. But even this bears the test of searching of the scriptures. Where can we find solid Biblical evidence that God stopped the 70th week from coming? Why isn't it in scripture? Bit by bit this prophecy is studied and broken down, only to find that a key point at the very root of it is missing.

Rex · Nov 30, 2012

kaoticprofit said:
NO! I believe the devil has his hands wound tight into the churches eschatology because....
There will not be a pre-trib, mid-trib, or pre-wrath rapture.
The man of sin will not be a Romam, European, or American.
The false prophet will not be the Pope and Rome will have nothing to do with end-time prophecy
There will not be a global dictator or empire.
There will not be a peace treaty with Israel.
There will not be a rebuilt temple other than the millennial temple.
There will not be a united world religion of any kind.

Prophecy wasn't written to fool "you guys"! "You guys" fool yourselves!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with your bold at the bottom. And your post is a fine example. I / we, have been focusing on one verse and or the 70 week prophesy and you have presumed all those above accusations, I can only presume you pulled them out of your hat I certainly didn't lead you speculate such things.

I see the same thing happen with most of the over active prophesy experts here, you can't talk about a single verse without polluting the topic with your dozens of your pre-canned speculations. You do it, teleiosis does it, veteran and a few others I have read.

BTW my quote function is acting weird

Retrobyter · Nov 30, 2012

Shalom, Trekson.

...

Hi Retro, I would respond to your post because I think you're mistaken in many areas, but it's so long I don't have the time. I am working on a response for this post that starts from scratch, so to speak, so I'll probably address many of those issues there. Perhaps you could answer a question for me though. In vs. 27 the phrase, "the covenant" is used. Could this be a translation problem? Would "a" covenant" work in the wording? I think the answer to this may resolve several questions. Sometimes a little word can make a big difference.

Technically, the definite article in the Hebrew is not present. So, unless the context refers to a specific covenant (which I believe it does), the indefinite article should be used for translation (or none at all). So, the question one has to ask oneself in textual criticism is this: Is this just some arbitrary covenant or agreement with many? OR, could it be referring to a specific covenant already in place? It is NOT talking about the forming of a new covenant. Despite all of teleiosis' ranting about "forcing" a covenant with someone, that just isn't what "gavar" ("vhigbiyr") means!

The real issue, imo, is this: What are the 70 Sevens for? What is (are) their purpose(s)? Or rather, What purposes for the 70 Sevens are left to be completed? I believe that it is clear that the six purposes for the 70 Sevens have NOT all been completed, and that of those purposes left to fill, they are in DIRECT LINK with the Messiah beginning His reign! Thus, we're not interested in a covenant that justifies individuals with God for this prophecy. The focus is on the covenant that was made regarding the rulership of Isra'el, Dani'el's people!

revturmoil · Dec 1, 2012

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Trekson.

Technically, the definite article in the Hebrew is not present. So, unless the context refers to a specific covenant (which I believe it does), the indefinite article should be used for translation (or none at all). So, the question one has to ask oneself in textual criticism is this: Is this just some arbitrary covenant or agreement with many? OR, could it be referring to a specific covenant already in place? It is NOT talking about the forming of a new covenant. Despite all of teleiosis' ranting about "forcing" a covenant with someone, that just isn't what "gavar" ("vhigbiyr") means!

The real issue, imo, is this: What are the 70 Sevens for? What is (are) their purpose(s)? Or rather, What purposes for the 70 Sevens are left to be completed? I believe that it is clear that the six purposes for the 70 Sevens have NOT all been completed, and that of those purposes left to fill, they are in DIRECT LINK with the Messiah beginning His reign! Thus, we're not interested in a covenant that justifies individuals with God for this prophecy. The focus is on the covenant that was made regarding the rulership of Isra'el, Dani'el's people!

The seventy sevens are there to fool people who are obsessed with it!
OR! People just fool themselves!

Rex · Dec 1, 2012

kaoticprofit said:
The seventy sevens are there to fool people who are obsessed with it!
OR! People just fool themselves!

I completely agree, it is the hinge the door moves on.
Get it wrong and the door doesn't work properly.
Gabriel has little patience for nay sayers or disbelief, he was charged with the job of pointing to the Messiah in both the old and new testaments.

Dan 9:22-23
70 weeks are determined for your people and your holy city.
Luke 1:18-20

Read chapter 8 If you what to hunt anti-christ 9:24- 27 is Messianic the Jews and their temple
Dan 8:16

It's so important, their is few interpreters "teachers" that that don't hinge their interpretation on it.
For most is a displacement of time and a covenant made by anti-christ, instead of the new covenant with the Messiah being right on time.

dragonfly · Dec 1, 2012

To teleosis and anyone else who doesn't understand this:

When God made His covenant with Abraham, the making of a covenant required each participant to bring a sacrifice. Abraham brought his, and it was ratified by God. Genesis 15:17.

Then we come to Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering.

Now, notice this that follows immediately: 'so they went both of them together'. This is exactly how God continued with Isaac, Jacob and their descendants. And, He sent prophets to back up His word to Eve, that He would raise up someone to crush the serpent's head.

Eventually, the Lamb of God appeared in the world, Hosea 13:14, John 1:29, and God sacrificed Him. It's the turn of man, to ratify His sacrifice.

THE covenant, is the one which is spoken of throughout the New Testament, which marks us out as ready for 'the world to come'.

Abraham understood what God was promising and we are showing our earthbound unregenerate thinking, when we focus on 'this world'.

Galatians 3:8, 14, 16, 26, 29. Mark 10:30, Luke 18:30, Hebrews 2:5, Hebrews 6:5, Hebrews 11:9, 10, 25 - 29.

I wonder whether Daniel was surprised at the prospect of Jerusalem being destroyed. He had heard about the flood, He had been born long after the ten tribes had separated; now he had been carried away captive himself, because of the waywardness of Judah. Everything was crumbling apart from God's original promises.

For me, the 'temple' which is housing abominations, is the visible church. Natural Israel will continue to reap what Israel has sown. If Israel sows to the Spirit, of the Spirit Israel will reap eternal life. If Israel sows to the flesh, Israel will reap corruption. This is simply the outworking of a spiritual law. The same law applies to spiritual Israel. Believer's whose hearts are in this world rather than in the world to come, will be found out by how they sow while they are free to sow.

The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

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