Timeline Questions

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Trekson

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Hi Guys, As you know God has led me to revise my timeline and He is slowly revealing a little bit here and there.
I'm looking for honest answers to a couple of sincere questions. We know another day of judgment is coming according to Rev. 20: 7-9 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[sup]8 [/sup]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[sup]9 [/sup]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

What we don't know is how long satan will be allowed to deceive the nations. It could be hundreds of years. Whether you agree or not with this doesn't matter but I've always considered Ez.38 to be a prophecy of this time. I never really considered that there may be other prophecies concerning this time, some that we always assumed to be end of the 70th week timing until today.

1st Question: Have any of you considered this same possibility?

There is one passage in particular that God showed me today. It's within this context.

Zech. 14:1-4 - "
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

I've always considered this end of 70th week timing, however, my study bible references this verse back to Rev. 19:17, the battle of Armageddon. It seems to me, if "the day of battle" was Armageddon, which makes perfect sense, then this is a period much later. When reading this I don't get the "sense" that the prophet is referencing a recent event within the future time being spoken of.

2nd and 3rd Q's - Can you see what I'm talkng about? Would this change any of your timeline understandings at all?

It seems to me that the judgments as recorded in Zech. 14:12 - "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

could reflect what would happen in the above Rev. 19:9.
 

John_8:32

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Hi Guys, As you know God has led me to revise my timeline and He is slowly revealing a little bit here and there.
I'm looking for honest answers to a couple of sincere questions. We know another day of judgment is coming according to Rev. 20: 7-9 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[sup]8 [/sup]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[sup]9 [/sup]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

What we don't know is how long satan will be allowed to deceive the nations. It could be hundreds of years. Whether you agree or not with this doesn't matter but I've always considered Ez.38 to be a prophecy of this time. I never really considered that there may be other prophecies concerning this time, some that we always assumed to be end of the 70th week timing until today.

1st Question: Have any of you considered this same possibility?

There is one passage in particular that God showed me today. It's within this context.

Zech. 14:1-4 - "
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

I've always considered this end of 70th week timing, however, my study bible references this verse back to Rev. 19:17, the battle of Armageddon. It seems to me, if "the day of battle" was Armageddon, which makes perfect sense, then this is a period much later. When reading this I don't get the "sense" that the prophet is referencing a recent event within the future time being spoken of.

2nd and 3rd Q's - Can you see what I'm talkng about? Would this change any of your timeline understandings at all?

It seems to me that the judgments as recorded in Zech. 14:12 - "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

could reflect what would happen in the above Rev. 19:9.

Zech 14 is more information about the return of Christ and should be additive to Rev 19. The plague that Christ smites the nations with is what produces this...

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

this verse coincides with...

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Beast and the False Prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire, but notice the rest of the army is not...

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This is the same as...

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Technically, this is not Armageddon. Armageddon comes from Har Meggido, which is the area that the armies stage in for the battle. The actual battle is in the valley of Jehoshaphat...

Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Jehoshaphat:

H3092
יהושׁפט
yehôshâphâṭ
yeh-ho-shaw-fawt'
From H3068 and H8199; Jehovah-judged; Jehoshaphat, the name of six Israelites; also of a valley near Jerusalem : - Jehoshaphat. Compare H3146.

This valley near Jerusalem (check some maps for this) is where the actual battle takes place. The name of the battle is actually...

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

By common usage, we have come to refer to it as Armageddon. HTH.
 

Trekson

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Hi John, Your words: 'Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

this verse coincides with...

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
."

I guess that's my point, it DOESN"T coincide with that. I used to believe it did but within the context the Zech verse is occuring much later than the Rev. verse. The context implies that Rev 19:9 is history as far as Zech. 14:3 is concerned.
 

Pelaides

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Zech 14;12 Has been interpreted by some to be a nuclear attack of some kind.Radiation can turn a person into a skeleton while they are still standing.The prophet had no way of knowing what he was seeing in his vision.
 

tgwprophet

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Actually i tend to believe the prophets do understand what they see in visions but are restricted to describe the visions to the language they posess. In this manner certain things such as seals are kept in tact. So, certainly they could understand this is caused by radition bombs but not have the words for it, This is just a perspective.
 

Pelaides

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Actually i tend to believe the prophets do understand what they see in visions but are restricted to describe the visions to the language they posess. In this manner certain things such as seals are kept in tact. So, certainly they could understand this is caused by radition bombs but not have the words for it, This is just a perspective.
Take a look at revelations13:15,do you think this is a talking statue?or is it merely an image on a big screen?

The ancient prophets had never seen airplanes or moviescreens before,They were looking into the future.
 

tgwprophet

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Pelaides wrote: " The ancient prophets had never seen airplanes or moviescreens before,They were looking into the future. "
"
Thus is my point... i do see I made mistakes in spelling it out corectly. Thanks for doing a better job.
 

veteran

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Trekson said:
Hi Guys, As you know God has led me to revise my timeline and He is slowly revealing a little bit here and there.
I'm looking for honest answers to a couple of sincere questions. We know another day of judgment is coming according to Rev. 20: 7-9 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

What we don't know is how long satan will be allowed to deceive the nations. It could be hundreds of years. Whether you agree or not with this doesn't matter but I've always considered Ez.38 to be a prophecy of this time. I never really considered that there may be other prophecies concerning this time, some that we always assumed to be end of the 70th week timing until today.

1st Question: Have any of you considered this same possibility?

There is one passage in particular that God showed me today. It's within this context.

Zech. 14:1-4 - "
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

I've always considered this end of 70th week timing, however, my study bible references this verse back to Rev. 19:17, the battle of Armageddon. It seems to me, if "the day of battle" was Armageddon, which makes perfect sense, then this is a period much later. When reading this I don't get the "sense" that the prophet is referencing a recent event within the future time being spoken of.
The Rev.19:17 timing of Armageddon IS... the end of the 70th week timing. It is also the timing of Ezekiel 38-39. Then Ezekiel 40 forward is Milennium timing. Ezekiel's vision given starting in Ezekiel 40 forward is to be contrasted with the vision given John in Rev.21-22.

The label of Gog-Magog is put for Satan's host in general that follow him, whether of the time prior to Christ's second coming, or after Christ's future thousand years reign. The second Gog-Magog event will be a destruction similar to the one that will occur with Christ's second coming, i.e. by God's consuming fire.

Trekson said:
2nd and 3rd Q's - Can you see what I'm talkng about? Would this change any of your timeline understandings at all?

It seems to me that the judgments as recorded in Zech. 14:12 - "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

could reflect what would happen in the above Rev. 19:9.
The Zechariah 14 Scripture is about Christ's second coming, then His Milennium reign. There's really no way to get it mixed up by following it as written...


Zech 14:5-9
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Only The Father knows the time of Christ's second coming, which is that "one day which shall be known to the LORD".


8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
(KJV)

Only during Christ's future thousand years reign will those "living waters" go out from Jerusalem to water the earth. And only then at Christ's second coming will He be king over all the earth, ruling over all nations de facto with His elect.

With the Gog-Magog event at the end of the thousand years in Rev.20, Christ and His elect are STILL reigning, the holy city on earth still entact.

The judgment of Zech.14:12 is about the "day of the Lord" events of God pouring out His cup of wrath upon the earth, burning the elements of man's works off the earth by His consuming fire (2 Peter 3:10). It's that event which will usher us ALL into Christ's future thousand years reign on earth. So the Zechariah timelines are moving back and forth, and we're expected to catch it by understanding those events and what they're about per other Scripture in God's Word.
 

Trekson

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Sorry vet, I disagree with your doctrine of men regarding this passage.
 

John_8:32

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The Rev.19:17 timing of Armageddon IS... the end of the 70th week timing. It is also the timing of Ezekiel 38-39. Then Ezekiel 40 forward is Milennium timing. Ezekiel's vision given starting in Ezekiel 40 forward is to be contrasted with the vision given John in Rev.21-22.

The label of Gog-Magog is put for Satan's host in general that follow him, whether of the time prior to Christ's second coming, or after Christ's future thousand years reign. The second Gog-Magog event will be a destruction similar to the one that will occur with Christ's second coming, i.e. by God's consuming fire.


The Zechariah 14 Scripture is about Christ's second coming, then His Milennium reign. There's really no way to get it mixed up by following it as written...


Zech 14:5-9
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Only The Father knows the time of Christ's second coming, which is that "one day which shall be known to the LORD".


8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
(KJV)

Only during Christ's future thousand years reign will those "living waters" go out from Jerusalem to water the earth. And only then at Christ's second coming will He be king over all the earth, ruling over all nations de facto with His elect.

With the Gog-Magog event at the end of the thousand years in Rev.20, Christ and His elect are STILL reigning, the holy city on earth still entact.

The judgment of Zech.14:12 is about the "day of the Lord" events of God pouring out His cup of wrath upon the earth, burning the elements of man's works off the earth by His consuming fire (2 Peter 3:10). It's that event which will usher us ALL into Christ's future thousand years reign on earth. So the Zechariah timelines are moving back and forth, and we're expected to catch it by understanding those events and what they're about per other Scripture in God's Word.
I do agree with this timeline, because it is correct.
 

Trekson

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I'm in the process of writing an article about this but for now let me assure you that Zech. 14 has nothing to do with His second coming.
 

MTPockets

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Hi! 'Trekson'

You wrote:
"-> Zech 14:1-4
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. <-"

I want to contribute to your scripture quote; especially concerning the Mount of Olives.
Take for instance, this popular theological explanation about Mount Zion held by a vast majority of Christians today:
Zion” is used figuratively of Israel as the people of God, (Isa 60:14). The spiritual meaning of “Zion” is continued in the New Testament, where it is given the Christian meaning of God's spiritual kingdom, the heavenly Jerusalem, (Heb 12:22; Rev 14:1). Peter refers to Christ as the Cornerstone of Zion: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in Him will never be put to shame”, (1Pet 2:6).

So, my question to you is: should not the Mount of Olives also be viewed figuratively ... in same manner as Mount Zion?
I refer to the explanation of Isaiah 54:11-12 where mountains are figuratively shown as images of invisible powers. Our Lord Jesus Christ said about the casting out of evil spirits: "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move hence to yonder place', and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you", (Matt 17:20).
The above verse explicitly infers that, in the New Covenant, the names of mountains no longer hold geographical significance. Instead, they figuratively stand for spiritual powers. This is why it is that the faithful followers of Jesus are encouraged to rebuke evil powers; "You will say to this mountain, 'Move hence'".
Psalm 97:5: "The mountains melt like wax before the Lord". And again in Psalm 46:3, "Though the mountains tremble with its tumult".
When Jonah was carried in the belly of the fish to the bottom of the sea or abyss, (figuratively Sheol), he said, " ... at the roots of the mountains, I went down... ", (Jonah 2:6).
In the latter days men in their fear will call upon the evil powers in whom they put their trust. In vain, however, they beseech the mountains, "Fall on us"; in vain they call panic-stricken upon the trills, "Cover us", (Luke 23:30).
Figuratively too, the unfaithful apostate church is seated on seven hills or seven kings from the bottomless pit, (Rev 17:9).

In the New Covenant, Mount Zion is figuratively an image of the Holy Spirit. It's the mountain on which the city of God and spiritual Israel are located. This is why we read in Hebrews 12:22, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem".
The immense power of the Holy spirit is indicated by the height of Mount Zion. Revelation says, "And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God", (Rev 21:10).
So, it shouldn't be puzzling for us to read the prophesy of Isaiah saying, "It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains", (Isaiah 2:2).
The faithful church of Jesus Christ is based upon the power of the Holy Spirit. "Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him a hundred and forty-four thousand", (Rev 14:1).

The verse you mentioned says, "And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward", (Zech 14:4).
Let's take a closer look at the figurative meaning of the Mount of Olives:
After the last supper, Jesus left Jerusalem and went with His disciples to the Mount of Olives. Gethsemane, (oil press), lies at the foot of this mountain and forms part of it. It was in this garden that our Lord fought the greatest and heaviest battle of His life.
Jesus had defeated all evil powers but now He was confronted with an enemy who was to overpower Him. In this garden the struggle against the powers of death began and here He was like Jonah in the belly of the fish. In this very place Jesus was in great agony and His sweat became like drops of blood falling down on the earth. In Gethsemane He had to taste death by spiritually drinking the cup of death; thus partaking of the suffering of death.

After the resurrection of Jesus, He and His disciples were not at the foot of the Mount of Olives any more ... but right on top of it. Jesus was no longer the stricken shepherd about to be killed by the sword of the enemy, (Rev 13: 7), but Jesus had become the King of kings and declared, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me", (Matt 28:18). The last enemy (death) had been dethroned and destroyed, (1Cor 15:26).

So, I ask you to consider that the mountain at the foot of which our Lord laid down His life and on top of which His feet stood after His victory over death henceforth becomes known as an image of the power of death: the destroyer, (Apollyon/Abbadon).
The Mount of Olives, which geographically speaking lies east of Jerusalem, has no longer any significance in the history of salvation, no more than Mount Zion or Sinai. The Mount of Olives now only symbolizes the power of death.

The expression 'splitting' suggest the end of the power which death has over the children of God. Thus the Red Sea which once threatened the people of Israel with death was divided and made powerless; a way of escape and victory was formed. However, the day is still ahead in which death will completely vanish. This will happen when, "Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire", (Rev 20:14).
When those who stay behind alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye, they have of course ceased to be under the influence of death. Together with Jesus they have victory and they have put their feet on the Mount of Olives as He did, for they have conquered death. The mountain of death is made powerless and the image used to express this condition is the splitting of the Mount of Olives by which the sons of God find a way of escape.
Figuratively, we could say that the Mount of Olives will than be lifted up and thrown into the sea; that is, into the lake of fire and the second death.

Zechariah 14:5 says, "And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord your God will come, and all the holy ones with Him".
When (spiritually/figuratively) the Mount of Olives is split, that is when death will be made powerless. This is followed by a tremendous and impressive event. Those who stayed behind alive until the coming of the Lord will in the twinkling of an eye receive a body which is both immortal and spiritual. The earthly tent in which they live will be transformed into a spiritual house which expresses the maturity reached by the inner man. Throughout the centuries, the children of God had to yield to the power of death, but the manifested sons of God will combat and conquer the powers of sin and sickness and eventually will also triumph over the last enemy, just as the Son of God did.

Our Bibles say that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. His body, which had never served sin and which did not decompose after He died, was changed into a spiritual body which functioned in both the visible as well as the invisible world. In this transformation, Jesus is also the first amongst many brothers. About the sons of God the prophecy is that He will change their bodies in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for this perishable, visible, material, body must put on the imperishable.
As soon as this has happened, these words of God will be fulfilled: "Death is swallowed up in victory", (1Cor 15:53-54).

When the Mountain of Death splits, a wide valley will be created with a way of escape prepared by the Lord from the tribulation on earth to the heavenly glory. It is the day on which the Lord puts His feet on the Mount of Olives, meaning that death, the last enemy, has been put under His feet; then the authority and power of death over the people of God are completely broken. For them death has been dethroned, (1Cor 15:25-27).
Certain bible translators observe that this verse can also be rendered as follows: " For the valley of the mountain shall reach to the maintain which He has separated or selected, namely to Mount Zion". This would imply that God's people will find refuge on Mount Zion, as it says in Joel 2.32: "For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape". Mount Zion is the image of the Holy Spirit who guarantees eternal and imperishable life to the Israel of God.
A Roman Catholic version translates this verse as follows: "Then you will flee through the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains runs into the place where I save". The faithful followers of Jesus, (spiritual Israel), living in the time of the great tribulation will suddenly see a way of escape. They will flee in mass, as the people of Israel did when they left Egypt along the path which the Lord prepared through the tempestuous waves.
To demonstrate the force with which the powers of death will be torn apart, Zechariah mentioned an earthquake which took place two centuries before during the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Earthquakes being rare in Palestine, it was still talked about in the days of Zechariah. However, for the spiritual city of God, this prophecy is entirely a spiritual event. It shows how the complete man will escape at the Seventh Trumpet (last), when the perishable and mortal nature of the sons of God will put on imperishable immortality.

Isaiah 35:8-10 deals with a highway on which the true people of God will walk. This highway is not a literal road but a figure of speech, for it is called the 'holy way'. Those who are redeemed from the power of darkness will pass over it. The end of this highway leads through "the valley of the mountains" and thus it is fulfilled that, "I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be raised up", (Isaiah 49:11).

Certain Christians believe that on his return the Lord Jesus will put His feet on the Mount of Olives in the literal and natural sense of the word. They attempt to support this idea by quoting Acts 1:11 which says that the Lord Jesus will come in the same way as the disciples saw Him go to heaven.
I want to point out that this chapter of Acts deals primarily with the baptism in the Holy Spirit, so it is speaking about the 'coming' of Jesus is by His Spirit in their inner man.
However, there will also be a visible coining. This is what the two men in white robes were referring to when they were with the disciples at our Lord's ascension. The Lord Jesus, who has entirely withdrawn into the spiritual world, will once more be seen in the visible world when the harvest of the earth is ripe; that is, when the faithful followers of Jesus have reached spiritual maturity.
 

John_8:32

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I'm in the process of writing an article about this but for now let me assure you that Zech. 14 has nothing to do with His second coming.
I find that very interesting in light of these verses...

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Egypt keeping the Feast at this time? When will they?
 

Trekson

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Hi MTP, You've obviously put a lot of thought into your post and it was an interesting read. Let me see if I can sum up my beliefs on this issue in a couple of sentences.

Do I agree that a prophetic scripture can have both a literal meaning and a deeper spiritual aspect as well? Yes, I do! However, I don't believe a "symbolic" interpretation should ever take precedence over a literal interpretation unless it is quite obvious in the subject being spoken of. In other words, when a prophecy is given that can have a logical, realistic fulfillment then I don't believe we need to "replace" that fulfillment with a symbolic one.


Hi John, I don't know exactly when I'll be finished but I do deal with that.
 

MTPockets

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Trekson said:
Hi MTP, You've obviously put a lot of thought into your post and it was an interesting read. Let me see if I can sum up my beliefs on this issue in a couple of sentences.

Do I agree that a prophetic scripture can have both a literal meaning and a deeper spiritual aspect as well? Yes, I do! However, I don't believe a "symbolic" interpretation should ever take precedence over a literal interpretation unless it is quite obvious in the subject being spoken of. In other words, when a prophecy is given that can have a logical, realistic fulfillment then I don't believe we need to "replace" that fulfillment with a symbolic one.


Hi John, I don't know exactly when I'll be finished but I do deal with that.
Hi! 'Trekson'
Thank you for your response. Even though you indicated a difference of opinion, I especially appreciate it's polite and considerate manner.
Ummmm, jus' an added thought:
In His discussion with Nicodemus, the Lord Jesus pointed out that one has to be born again in order to see the Kingdom of God. In spite of the fact that Nicodemus was a teacher of Israel, he responded to the statement of Jesus by asking whether a person should re-enter his mother's womb and be born a second time. Jesus had to explain to him that entering the Kingdom of God requires a spiritual birth. Nicodemus asked, "How can this be?, and Jesus replied, "Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet do not understand this?"

Yes, it's indeed true that taking biblical statements in their literal sense is still popular among many Christians. When they read prophetic Scripture, their axiom is, "Read what it literally says". They insist to naturally explain supernatural words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

For instance, How would a literalist Christian after the model of Nicodemus have interpreted this prophecy of Isaiah 35:8-9 ? --- "And a highway shall be there, and it shall be called the Holy Way; the unclean shall not pass over it, and fools shall not err therein. No lion shall be there, nor shall any ravenous beast come on it; they shall not be found there, but the redeemed shall walk there".
My research of commentaries show that the results vary from the ludicrous to the bizzarre.
For instance, in his book titled, "Jesus Is Coming: God's Hope for a Restless World", W.E. Blackstone gave this explanation: "Railways are constructed in Israel, and locomotives rush back and forth between Jerusalem and the other cities of the country, just like the gleaming chariots of Nahum 2:4. They travel on the road predicted for the days of restoration by the words of the prophet".

Blackstone, a revered teacher of many, claims that the 'Holy Way' of 'The Holy One of Israel' is a railway line!
According to Blackstone's literal interpretationI, I can only suppose that the lion and the ravenous beast avoid this 'holy way' for fear of being killed under the wheels of the locomotives. Not to mention the risk to the redeemed who are supposed to walk there.
Clearly, Blackstone's literal interpretation of Isaish 35:8-9 profanes the holy Word of God and is a serious detriment to Scriptural exegesis.

The words of 1 Peter 1:10 also apply to this verse of Isaiah 35:8-9, "The prophets (including Isaiah) prophesied of the grace that was to be ours".
The highway is not literal. It is a figure/image of the Way of salvation which Jesus Christ revealed in the New Covenant.
He Himself is the Way, for He opened the door that gives access to it, and in His life He showed how sins are forgiven, how people in bondage are set free and the sick healed.
The lion and the ravenous beast represent the evil spirits which have to be cast out, resisted and conquered in the name of Jesus. On this high way in the heavenly places we, having been delivered from the hand of our enemies, may serve Him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life, (Luke 1:74-75).
 

Trekson

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Hi MTP, Regarding Is. 35:8-9, There is merit to what you suggest as a "symbolic" take on this passage. However, I wouldn't call Blackstone's theory, a "literal" interpretation by any means. This would be my take on it.

Yes, there will be a literal road. In the OT this word for "highway" is only used once and means, "a built up turnpike". In New England, where I'm originally from, we had built up "paths" like this, usually several feet from a river. We called them dikes. From other scriptures we know that in the millennial era that the "wild" beasts will co-exist peacefully with the domesticated beasts. In 35:1 in speaks of the desert blossoming again. Is this real or symbolic? We know in the millennial era it will become a reality. So the question becomes, Could there be a path or highway that only the redeemed could use to enter the city, one that gives them direct access to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

My answer would be Yes, it is indeed possible. So as stated earlier, while I wouldn't reject your symbolic take, as it is logical and leads to the spiritual aspect of our lives, I also don't deny the possibility that there could be a literal "highway" used by the redeemed.
 

veteran

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There's no reason to bring in confusion with the idea of reading Scripture literally vs. spiritually. It's not that difficult to know when God's Word is giving a spiritual lesson vs. a literal prophecy, even when metaphors and figures of speech are being used. In the Zechariah 14 events, it is all literal prophecy because direct events without metaphors are being given.


The very first verse of Zechariah 14 reveals it is literal prophecy...

Zech 14:1
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(KJV)



1Thes 5:2-4
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
(KJV)

2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)
 

tgwprophet

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Trekson, HI This Highway need not be a paved road complete with cloverleaf exits and toll booths, but couldd be a wide expanse dirt road path constructed by more sandals and tennis shoes than BF Goodrich and Micky Thompson tires.
 

IAmAWitness

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The Gog and Magog prophecy fulfillment is an extremely tedious process of just getting to a place in history where that could even be possible. Right now, it would be impossible and so it is not imminent and it is not even among the most important things prophetically for us or will it be something important for us. I'd expect most of us will be dead prior to it's fulfillment.

More important is Egypt and Syria, the American involvement in those two countries, their political stability and policy initiatives and domestic issues in the United States.
 

tgwprophet

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To the best of my knowledge Gog and MaGog are Russia and Iran. Notice I did not say the Soviet Union.. and that is why the Soviet Union was dismanteled in the early 90s. God will put hooks in their mouth to take a spoil from Israel. I expect this to occur before Tribulation commences, before the Daily Sacrifice starts and before The Anti-Christ also known as the Beast receives his mortal wound.