Why Christians Fail to Receive Physical Healing
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Exactly. Jesus knew God's will perfectly on this issue. Jesus was wrestling in the flesh with the agony of going to the cross, not a positive promise for healing or deliverance as God clearly gives. The only promise Jesus had was He was going and that was not easy for His flesh to take.THE Gypsy said:
The death of the self life is the similar experience for disciples and that is also quite painful in the execution and acceptance.
No one is required to die as Jesus did. Yes, while a believer is going through a trial of sickness or persecution God will strengthen him, but healing/deliverance will come as God promises IF the conditions are met. Please give scripture for anything else.
I do not think I mentioned the sin of unforgiveness as a blockage. It is a one way ticket to hell and God does not ever hear the person's prayers.
I'll leave you in your ignorance.
BTW...while you're at it...PLEASE learn how to use the quote feature! Take your time and experiment a little with the "preview post" button. When you write YOUR words into the words of others it appears as if THEY wrote it, not to mention it is impossible to weed through who actually said what.
BTW...while you're at it...PLEASE learn how to use the quote feature! Take your time and experiment a little with the "preview post" button. When you write YOUR words into the words of others it appears as if THEY wrote it, not to mention it is impossible to weed through who actually said what.
LESJUDE
you wanted me to show you where i disagree with your statements.
Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7)
sickness is a tool of satan to turn you away from God. God is a God of all that is good and if sickness is not good then it is not of God(just because God can make good come of anything does not mean that it is from God).
which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
let us not assume why some healing take more time then another to manifest. i have my own thoughts on this that are different then yours.
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
your reasoning is not scriptural. it is when we do things contrary to the word of God that bad things start to happen. praying for your food is great but we need to understand that it is not to keep us safe from whatever is in it.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
living in sin does make us more susceptible to the ways of the devil does not mean we will result in getting sick and staying sick.
you have everything you need to be victorious in your illness. just take authority over it like you would if you kids and they were doing something wrong. you wouldn't pray to God to correct their behavior but correct them right then and there. you need to put the same authority into your healing if you want results. i wish the best for you and my heart is glad that you are a strong sister in the faith.
God bless
you wanted me to show you where i disagree with your statements.
Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7)
sickness is a tool of satan to turn you away from God. God is a God of all that is good and if sickness is not good then it is not of God(just because God can make good come of anything does not mean that it is from God).
which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
let us not assume why some healing take more time then another to manifest. i have my own thoughts on this that are different then yours.
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
your reasoning is not scriptural. it is when we do things contrary to the word of God that bad things start to happen. praying for your food is great but we need to understand that it is not to keep us safe from whatever is in it.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
living in sin does make us more susceptible to the ways of the devil does not mean we will result in getting sick and staying sick.
there is only one thing i have noticed that you need to change in order to claim your healing. you need to come to the realization that healing is the will of God and that God has given us the power/authority to demand that sickness, disease or whatever be gone permanently. God gave us the power/authority to do handle things on the earth in the name of Christ. it is not for us to wait upon God to heal us because God has already given us everything we need to live victoriously. if you wonder if we have authority over something then ask yourself if God has it in heaven. if not then we are to take authority over it.Rach said:
you have everything you need to be victorious in your illness. just take authority over it like you would if you kids and they were doing something wrong. you wouldn't pray to God to correct their behavior but correct them right then and there. you need to put the same authority into your healing if you want results. i wish the best for you and my heart is glad that you are a strong sister in the faith.
God bless
The RCC teaches and believes that no one can be saved outside of the RCC. In fact they explicitly curse anyone who disagrees with the necessity of their 'sacraments' for salvation.Rescued By Mary said:
The RCC is NOT Christian:
Is it not the vilest hypocrisy to give credibility to the RCC as Christian when so many true Christians were tortured and murdered by them for standing for Bible truth?
If an organization like the RCC denies clear scripture and teaches the opposite of the Bible on the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith like the means of salvation can that organization correctly be called "Christian"?
Can the RCC be called "Christian" because they claim to have been an organization the longest? Does longevity mean the same as Bible truth? Their history is one of perversion that continues to this day.
Paul was the apostle that headed the church in Rome and James, the BROTHER of Jesus, was head of the church in Jerusalem. There is no Bible evidence that Peter was a leader/pope of anything so how could he be declared the first pope and then the popes 'infallible'?
Scripture clearly states that Peter was married in Matthew 7:14 and 1 Corinthians 9:5 as well as the other apostles. Where then did the RCC get celibacy? Has there been anything but bad fruit from this doctrine?
If the bread and wine in the ordinance of Communion is the actual body and bread of Christ then Jesus and the disciples at the last supper were eating Jesus before His crucifixion. How is this doctrine even reasonable or scriptural? How can it be said the RCC believes in the Jesus of the Bible when they contradict much of what He said and did and repeatedly "sacrifice" Him in the demonic mass?
The Bible clearly states that it is the sole and complete revelation of God and His word and it does not change. How can decrees of RCC councils and papal decrees that often contradict scripture and are reversed be declared by the RCC coequal with the Bible? Extra biblical "revelation" that is coequal with scripture is a defining aspect of a cult.
How can anyone believe that Mary remained a virgin and is coequal to Christ in light of scripture?
I have NEVER said sickness is from God. It is ALWAYS from the devil but clearly God has to allow it.7angels said:
which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Scripture please. You have given very little for anything you say you believe.
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
Abusing our bodies IS contrary to God's word . 2 Corinthians 6:19-20.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
1 Corinthians 10:21-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God. See also Numbers 23:19-20 then see them cursing themselves by indulging in the occult Numbers 25:1-3.
1 Corinthians 11:27-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[a] of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[b] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s[c] body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
Not just sick but DEAD!
Corinthians 10:10-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all[a] these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Mark 11:25-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
Forgiveness and Prayer
25 “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.”[a]
cts 5:9-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband.
There are MANY more examples but you get the idea.
That is a lie.
Another lie.
Another lie, + hate speech.
You mean "your history".
You don't know your bible. Just human opinion that denies the obvious.
Celibacy was never a doctrine, which just proves your ignorance. Continue to ignore Matthew 19:11-12, Matthew 19:29, Matthew 19:29, 1 Cor. 7:27, 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38, 1 Tim. 5:9-12, Isaiah 56:3-7, Jer. 16:1-4 so that you can remain comfortable in your blindness.
It's not the Church's fault you cannot connect the Last Supper with an execution. Without the Last Supper, that's all it is.
There is no such thing as "extra-biblical revelation" in the Catholic Church (who preserved the Bible). It's Pentacostal cultists like you who say those who don't get healed are second class Christians. Looks to me like an extra biblical revelation.
It is fad theology (about 20-30 years old) that says Mary did not remain a virgin. Every reformer believed she remained a virgin. You need not concern yourself with your own roots, since reformism of your kind says you can believe what ever you choose. Co-equal with Christ? What hate site did you swallow up that Satanic lie from? The same sources you got your other lies from?
FIVE STAGES OF PERSECUTION:
I. Stereotyping the targeted group
II. Vilifying the targeted Group for alleged crimes or misconduct,
III. Marginalizing the targeted group’s role in society -
IV. Criminalizing the targeted group or its works
V. Persecuting the targeted group outright
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17024-five-stages-of-persecution/
original source
lesjude, you need to humble yourself and receive healing of your bigotry, and no forum can do that, just the Holy Spirit.
Quote
The RCC teaches and believes that no one can be saved outside of the RCC. In fact they explicitly curse anyone who disagrees with the necessity of their 'sacraments' for salvation.
Quote
Is it not the vilest hypocrisy to give credibility to the RCC as Christian when so many true Christians were tortured and murdered by them for standing for Bible truth?
Fox's Book of Martyrs
www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
Complete text, containing accounts of Protestant deaths in the 16th century.
Quote
If an organization like the RCC denies clear scripture and teaches the opposite of the Bible on the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith like the means of salvation can that organization correctly be called "Christian"?
Romans 10:10-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[a]
Ephesians 2:8-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
No priest or 'sacraments are required.
Quote
Can the RCC be called "Christian" because they claim to have been an organization the longest? Does longevity mean the same as Bible truth? Their history is one of perversion that continues to this day.
Quote
Paul was the apostle that headed the church in Rome and James, the BROTHER of Jesus, was head of the church in Jerusalem. There is no Bible evidence that Peter was a leader/pope of anything so how could he be declared the first pope and then the popes 'infallible'?
Philippians 1:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 But I want you to know, brethren, that the things which happened to me have actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel, 13 so that it has become evident to the whole palace guard, and to all the rest, that my chains are in Christ;
Acts 28:30-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.
James as head of the church of Jerusalem making a decision for all the churches:
Acts 15:19-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[a]from things strangled, and from blood.
Peter contradicting if. He was not 'infallible' then:
Galatians 2:11-13
11 Now when Peter[a] had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Quote
Scripture clearly states that Peter was married in Matthew 7:14 and 1 Corinthians 9:5 as well as the other apostles. Where then did the RCC get celibacy? Has there been anything but bad fruit from this doctrine?
Quote
If the bread and wine in the ordinance of Communion is the actual body and bread of Christ then Jesus and the disciples at the last supper were eating Jesus before His crucifixion. How is this doctrine even reasonable or scriptural? How can it be said the RCC believes in the Jesus of the Bible when they contradict much of what He said and did and repeatedly "sacrifice" Him in the demonic mass?
Quote
The Bible clearly states that it is the sole and complete revelation of God and His word and it does not change. How can decrees of RCC councils and papal decrees that often contradict scripture and are reversed be declared by the RCC coequal with the Bible? Extra biblical "revelation" that is coequal with scripture is a defining aspect of a cult.
Quote
How can anyone believe that Mary remained a virgin and is coequal to Christ in light of scripture?
It is a lie that the RCC believes and teaches.
1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4
http://www.religioustolerance.org/mary_cor.htm
FIVE STAGES OF PERSECUTION:
I. Stereotyping the targeted group
II. Vilifying the targeted Group for alleged crimes or misconduct,
III. Marginalizing the targeted group’s role in society -
IV. Criminalizing the targeted group or its works
V. Persecuting the targeted group outright
http://www.christian...of-persecution/
original source
lesjude, you need to humble yourself and receive healing of your bigotry, and no forum can do that, just the Holy Spirit.
The RCC teaches and believes that no one can be saved outside of the RCC. In fact they explicitly curse anyone who disagrees with the necessity of their 'sacraments' for salvation.
The Council of Trent cursed anyone who said the priesthood and the sacraments were not necessary for salvation and that stands to this day. Only those who are members of the RCC can receive the 5 'sacraments' they say are necessary for salvation only from a RCC priest.
Quote
Is it not the vilest hypocrisy to give credibility to the RCC as Christian when so many true Christians were tortured and murdered by them for standing for Bible truth?
Here is the proof of the murder and torture of true believers by the RCC for all to read:
Fox's Book of Martyrs
www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
Complete text, containing accounts of Protestant deaths in the 16th century.
Quote
If an organization like the RCC denies clear scripture and teaches the opposite of the Bible on the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith like the means of salvation can that organization correctly be called "Christian"?
The truth is only "hate speech" to those exposed by it. Here is what the Bible says about the fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith:
Romans 10:10-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[a]
Ephesians 2:8-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
No priest or 'sacraments are required.
Quote
Can the RCC be called "Christian" because they claim to have been an organization the longest? Does longevity mean the same as Bible truth? Their history is one of perversion that continues to this day.
This is a claim by the RCC for legitimacy.
Quote
Paul was the apostle that headed the church in Rome and James, the BROTHER of Jesus, was head of the church in Jerusalem. There is no Bible evidence that Peter was a leader/pope of anything so how could he be declared the first pope and then the popes 'infallible'?
Paul in Rome starting the churches:
Philippians 1:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 But I want you to know, brethren, that the things which happened to me have actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel, 13 so that it has become evident to the whole palace guard, and to all the rest, that my chains are in Christ;
Acts 28:30-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.
James as head of the church of Jerusalem making a decision for all the churches:
Acts 15:19-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[a]from things strangled, and from blood.
Peter contradicting if. He was not 'infallible' then:
Galatians 2:11-13
11 Now when Peter[a] had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Quote
Scripture clearly states that Peter was married in Matthew 7:14 and 1 Corinthians 9:5 as well as the other apostles. Where then did the RCC get celibacy? Has there been anything but bad fruit from this doctrine?
You are correct but required of priests. Do I have to give links for the coverup at the highest levels of the RCC of the homosexual scandal both before it came to light and after? Bad fruit of this practice that was never intended for all.
Quote
If the bread and wine in the ordinance of Communion is the actual body and bread of Christ then Jesus and the disciples at the last supper were eating Jesus before His crucifixion. How is this doctrine even reasonable or scriptural? How can it be said the RCC believes in the Jesus of the Bible when they contradict much of what He said and did and repeatedly "sacrifice" Him in the demonic mass?
The RCC believes that the wafer and wine become the actual body and blood of Christ so you are breaking His body and drinking/spilling His blood over and over in the mass. Blasphemy!
Quote
The Bible clearly states that it is the sole and complete revelation of God and His word and it does not change. How can decrees of RCC councils and papal decrees that often contradict scripture and are reversed be declared by the RCC coequal with the Bible? Extra biblical "revelation" that is coequal with scripture is a defining aspect of a cult.
Decrees of RCC councils, RCC tradition, Papal bulls are the same weight as scripture and have been frequently reversed.
Quote
How can anyone believe that Mary remained a virgin and is coequal to Christ in light of scripture?
The Bible is clear Jesus had brothers and sisters. Jesus says this Himself.
It is a lie that the RCC believes and teaches.
1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4
http://www.religioustolerance.org/mary_cor.htm
FIVE STAGES OF PERSECUTION:
I. Stereotyping the targeted group
II. Vilifying the targeted Group for alleged crimes or misconduct,
III. Marginalizing the targeted group’s role in society -
IV. Criminalizing the targeted group or its works
V. Persecuting the targeted group outright
http://www.christian...of-persecution/
original source
lesjude, you need to humble yourself and receive healing of your bigotry, and no forum can do that, just the Holy Spirit.
Scripture please. You have given very little for anything you say you believe.lesjude said:
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
Abusing our bodies IS contrary to God's word . 2 Corinthians 6:19-20.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
1 Corinthians 10:21-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God. See also Numbers 23:19-20 then see them cursing themselves by indulging in the occult Numbers 25:1-3.
1 Corinthians 11:27-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[a] of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[b] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s[c] body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
Not just sick but DEAD!
Corinthians 10:10-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all[a] these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Mark 11:25-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
Forgiveness and Prayer
25 “And whenever you stand pra
alright let us look at scriptures
mark 11:24 says nothing about a time limit being put upon us on how some get healed immediately and others longer. the word teaches we are already healed(is 53:5, 1 pet 2:24).
praying over ones food you said "Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it."
keeps us safe from stuff in it this only happens when it is eaten by accident and not on purpose. look at all the fat christians and you will find that God does not automatically make them thin. Why??? being fat is not good for the body as doctors can support. the same goes for being too thin is not good for us. if what you say is true then we should have few christians who are fat which is not the case.
you say Abusing our bodies IS contrary to God's word . 2 Corinthians 6:19-20.
(these verses do not exist).
you say "Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick."
i would like to hear your definition of sick. these things take away God's blessings but do not necessarily mean it will make you sick. you can be sick just trying to be a christian. rach is a good example of this or having your one son who was born stillborn is another good example of Good christians having bad things happen to them. what we are into does not automatically make us sick.
you say "This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God."
God does not allow sickness but removes his hand of protection further and further from us. sin is what is our burden to carry on earth until Jesus comes and free us from it. it all came about because of what happened in the garden of eden. God takes away the results of sin as long as we obey and follow him. when we refuse is when God releases his hand of protection from us and thus sin can get it grubby hands upon us which cause bad things to happen. numbers 23:19-20, Numbers 25:1-3, 1 Corinthians 11:27-31 prove what i said about is true.
1 cor 11:27-30 Jesus referring to everyone and not just to the disciples. the word 'among' shows present tense which means that Jesus is not talking about physical death but spiritual death. 'weak and sickly' is referring to their spiritual growth in the Lord.
i hope we can have a good discussion and not turn this into an argument. it seems we believe the almost same things.
God bless
Abusing our bodies IS contrary to God's word . 2 Corinthians 6:19ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.7angels said:
1 Corinthians 10:21-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God. See also Numbers 23:19-20 then see them cursing themselves by indulging in the occult Numbers 25:1-3.
1 Corinthians 11:27-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[a] of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[b] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s[c] body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
Not just sick but DEAD!
Corinthians 10:10-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all[a] these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Mark 11:25-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
Forgiveness and Prayer
25 “And whenever you stand pra
alright let us look at scriptures
mark 11:24 says nothing about a time limit being put upon us on how some get healed immediately and others longer. the word teaches we are already healed(is 53:5, 1 pet 2:24).
praying over ones food you said "Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it."
keeps us safe from stuff in it this only happens when it is eaten by accident and not on purpose. look at all the fat christians and you will find that God does not automatically make them thin. Why??? being fat is not good for the body as doctors can support. the same goes for being too thin is not good for us. if what you say is true then we should have few christians who are fat which is not the case.
you say Abusing our bodies IS contrary to God's word . 2 Corinthians 6:19-20.
Sorry. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
you say "Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick."
True. God allows sickness or loss of material things only as a last resort when all other means of getting our attention fail.
No, Rach is not a good example of this. He believes it is God's will for him to stay sick. It is fatalism not faith that is is God's will to heal.
The stillborn was simply the devil challenging God based on all the Christians praying that God would "teach us a lesson" by letting something bad happen and we would not trust Jesus alone or be angry at God. People have made similar threats here like Rach for one.
you say "This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God."
Removing His hand of protection is no different then allowing it.
No, we are not carrying a burden of sin. When born again He took that burden:
Romans 8:1-2
New King James Version (NKJV)
Free from Indwelling Sin
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 6:11-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
2 Corinthians 5:17
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
1 John 2:1
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1 John 3:4-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
Sin and the Child of God
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Yes, a believer can fall into sin but it is not his nature or born again heart. God is under no obligation to forgive willful awake and aware sin.
lesjude, I simply will not reply to anti-Catholic cluster bombing tactics; its a form of cowardice as far as I am concerned. I mean making long lists of lies and misrepresentations that take 5 pages to answer them all. Foxes Book of Martyrs? What a joke. It's the only source you cited supporting your hate speech, which isn't much of a source.
Refutation of the Historical Inaccuracies of the Anti-Catholic Foxe's Book of Martyrs
If Mary had other children then what's so special about Jesus' birth? You just don't get it. And BTW, the penalty for sleeping around on ones true husband is stoning to death. You don't get that either. You can't show me one Protestant church before the 19th century that believed Mary had other children. You can't because there aren't any. It's fad theology and biblical eisegsis, no different than Dan Brown theology. It's also a doctrine of demons because it diminishes the uniqueness of Christs' birth. You believe Luther and Calvin's doctrine of sola scriptura but reject everything they taught about Mary. Your system is selective and subjective therefore you have no right to bind anyone to false teaching.
Refutation of the Historical Inaccuracies of the Anti-Catholic Foxe's Book of Martyrs
If Mary had other children then what's so special about Jesus' birth? You just don't get it. And BTW, the penalty for sleeping around on ones true husband is stoning to death. You don't get that either. You can't show me one Protestant church before the 19th century that believed Mary had other children. You can't because there aren't any. It's fad theology and biblical eisegsis, no different than Dan Brown theology. It's also a doctrine of demons because it diminishes the uniqueness of Christs' birth. You believe Luther and Calvin's doctrine of sola scriptura but reject everything they taught about Mary. Your system is selective and subjective therefore you have no right to bind anyone to false teaching.
i seem to agree with most of your theology but your reasoning is still a work in progress.lesjude said:
you say
God allows sickness or loss of material things only as a last resort when all other means of getting our attention fail.
No, Rach is not a good example of this. He believes it is God's will for him to stay sick. It is fatalism not faith that is is God's will to heal. The stillborn was simply the devil challenging God based on all the Christians praying that God would "teach us a lesson" by letting something bad happen and we would not trust Jesus alone or be angry at God. People have made similar threats here like Rach for one.
why do you differentiate between your challenge of a stillborn baby and rach's challenge of illness. can't you understand that the only difference between the two is that took authority over your challenge and were victorious and rach is fighting it. the devil does not even try to challenge God(he did this and lost already) but challenges ourselves to try and get us to fall away from God's Best. also God does not allow sickness. God gave us everything we need to be victorious in every area of our life. but it is up to us to put it into practice. people lay the blame on God for nothing happening in their circumstances when the word tells us everything we need to do ti be victorious. is it God's fault that we are not doing things as God's word says? God will word with us no matter even if we are in sin as long as we remain humble and teachable.
you say
"This is why the occult practices I referred to can result in sickness from the devil allowed by God."
Removing His hand of protection is no different then allowing it.
No, we are not carrying a burden of sin. When born again He took that burden:
Romans 8:1-2
you understand that the world came under sin(control of the devil) with what adam and eve did in the garden of eden right? just because we are born again does not make the burden of sin gone. it only allows us to no longer be controlled by sin. we have a sin nature and it is thanks to Jesus that i can take control of my sinful nature. the burden of sin does not leave but God who overcomes any and all things makes it possible for us to a sinless life but if there is any area of our life that is not perfect with God then satan and his nature will come at us. no one but Jesus that i know of has every conquered the devil/sin in every area. as we sin then if we do not repent of it then God cannot keep us safe. God will not condone sin and the more we sin the further God goes from us and with God goes his blessing and protection. when we say God allows sin then you do not know the character of God very well. if God allowed sin on earth then God would have to allow it in heaven. and i can guarantee you that there is no sin in heaven. the reason i know this is because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God does not change.
btw now to the scriptures you used to prove your points
rom 8:1-2 refer to those who walk after the spirit and not the flesh. you are able to be spiritual in part of your life but carnal in still other areas. if i were all spiritual in every area then i would be like Jesus and reached a perfect sinless nature.
Romans 6:11-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
look at the word reckon it does not refer that sin is Gone but that we are to act as if sin were dead.
2 Corinthians 5:17
this verse is telling us that our sin nature no longer has control over us but we control it.
1 John 2:1
this verse shows us that should we sin that we can come before Jesus and repent and get back into right standing as if we had done nothing wrong.
1 John 3:4-9
these verses show us the separation of both God's nature and satan's nature. unless we become perfect and sinless as Jesus then we will always have both God's nature and satan's nature within us at the same time. so what it comes down to is whose nature will we resemble God or satan?
if i forgot to address one of your questions please ask it. it is hard to tell in the above quote what was answered and what wasn't.
God bless
No where in scripture does it say we have a "sin nature". Paul was referring to himself BEFORE his conversion and Acts 2:4 experience in Romans 7:21-25. Because you do not have this straight the rest of your understanding is flawed.7angels said:
btw now to the scriptures you used to prove your points
No, this means we can choose to have the victory over our flesh EVERY TIME by the power of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:4 experience. If we do not so choose 1 John 1:9 is there. Our prayer language is important even crucial to this victory which is why most Baptists believe 2 natures.
Romans 6:11-14
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
If you do not reckon, or believe it in your heart NOTHING changes including being born again. All that will result from water baptism is getting wet. Sadly that is too often the case. Thus the lie of the devil of two natures.
2 Corinthians 5:17
No, it is saying that when devils tempts us by putting thoughts in our minds it is not our nature that is the source. The demons are trying to convince us the old nature is not dead and all things really have not become new. Your theology agrees with demons and produces Christians with dual personalities which is just a form of religious schizophrenia. This is why 1 Peter 5:8-9 is in the Bible.
It also shows a believer does not have to sin.
1 John 3:4-9
Sick and on the edge of heresy. We do NOT have Satan's nature. IF Romans 12:1 is done based on the new birth then verse 2 can happen which means the self life not Satan's nature will be replaced with the life of Christ manifested in us.
lesjude said:
I also have been a Christian for 35 years, And I haven't been sick in that time,
The reason is, Jesus has paid the price for our healing,
"By His stripes we WERE HEALED, And by His stripes we, ARE HEALED",
And as long as we have living right and have faith in God's healing power, We can be free from sickness, And if we get sick, we will be healed every time.
Rach said:
I am sorry that you are ill. But sickness is never for God's glory, God get the glory when people are healed.
You said you believe God can and will heal you, But what you need to know is, Jesus has already healed you.
Isaiah 53: 3, "Jesus was a man of sorrow, [The Hebrew means pain], And aquaited with grief, [Heb, Sickness]".
v4, "SURELY Jesus has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains".
V5, By His stripes,[The whips Jesus had], We ARE HEALED.
Matt 8: 1-16 is all about divine healing for the physical body, Then v17 says,
"That it might be fulfilled which was spoke by Isaiah the Prophet, Saying, Jesus has taken our infirmities and bare our sicknesses.
1 Pet 2: 24, "By whose, [Jesus],stripes we WERE [PAST TENSE] HEALED".
Now all we have to do is receive healing,
To many people are waiting for God to heal them, And God is waiting for us to receive healing.
Mk 16: 18 says the believer shal lay hands on the sick and the SHALL recover.
James 5: 14-15. says the prayer of faith SHALL heal the sick.
Faith says, I'M HEALED, And praises God for it.
So receive healing in faith and start [or continue if you already are], thanking God for your healing.
The Holy Bible does not lie! In the word God declares that He sent His Word and it healed them!(Psalms 107:20). God also says that He is the Lord our God that healeth thee! (Exodus 15:26). And by the blood of Jesus we are healed (Isaiah 53:5). Jesus held the sick and gave that same power to His disciples and to the church today (Mark 16:18). The Apostles healed all throughout the book of Acts (Acts 5:15-16 & Acts 10:38). The Apostle Paul speaks of the gifts of healing 1 Corinthians 12:9. I also know God is still a healer because He raised my grandmother from her sick and dying bed! He has healed me and others of sickness! So you can not tell me that my God is not a healer! Because until you are sick you can not know Him to be a healer! I have tried Jesus and I know what He can do! He does exceedingly and abundantly above all we can ask of even think!(Ephesians 3:20)!
I'll share a short story of healing. A woman that goes to my church had cancer in 2008 and God healed her from that. Yet in 2012 this year in September she was having breathing problems like shortness of breath and couldnt hardly breath! Uhm thank You Jesus! I'm sorry I get real happy when I tell this story. She checked in the hospital and they said her lungs were collapsing from the radiation and cancer therapy. She was placed in hospice and on a venalator for a week and a half. The hospital could only leave her on for two weeks! So we were praying and laying before God asking for healing! It came the day they were about to take her off the venalator she took it off herself and was breathing alright without it it! You can not tell me Jesus did not heal her because He did!
I'll share a short story of healing. A woman that goes to my church had cancer in 2008 and God healed her from that. Yet in 2012 this year in September she was having breathing problems like shortness of breath and couldnt hardly breath! Uhm thank You Jesus! I'm sorry I get real happy when I tell this story. She checked in the hospital and they said her lungs were collapsing from the radiation and cancer therapy. She was placed in hospice and on a venalator for a week and a half. The hospital could only leave her on for two weeks! So we were praying and laying before God asking for healing! It came the day they were about to take her off the venalator she took it off herself and was breathing alright without it it! You can not tell me Jesus did not heal her because He did!
THE Gypsy said:
The reason God doesn't move the obsticles is, Because we are suposed to move them.
Matt 16: 19. Mk 11: 23. Eph 6: 10--18. James 4: 7. 1 Pet 5: 8--9.
if we could keep healing ourselves we would never get sick and die or anything .... and we would not need any of that saviour stuff and going to heaven stuff either. christ did not come to keep everybody phtsically healthy .... he never said such a thing. the 12 apostles were given the mandate to heal on a regular basis .... but that was often to prove their apostleship .... just like jesus performed miracles to authenticate himself.
anyone who claims we should be healing on a regular basis is givin us a crock .
anyone who claims we should be healing on a regular basis is givin us a crock .
Please click on the link and read what Jesus said on the issue in Mark 16:17-18:Arnie Manitoba said:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/15888-so-you-want-to-love-people-like-jesus-did/
