Why Christians Fail to Receive Physical Healing

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 25, 2012

hi lesjude ..... best wishes but you do the same error the rest of the misguided make ...... you left off the earlier verses

The Great Commission
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: ...... jesus is talking to the 11 , not you and me.

i have yet to see a demonstration of any modern christian drinking deadly poison without harm

we are not the 11

lesjude · Dec 25, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
hi lesjude ..... best wishes but you do the same error the rest of the misguided make ...... you left off the earlier verses

The Great Commission
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: ...... jesus is talking to the 11 , not you and me.

i have yet to see a demonstration of any modern christian drinking deadly poison without harm

we are not the 11

Click to expand...

No one is to drink poison knowingly and that is not even implied.
We do the things that Matthew 10:7-8 and Mark 16:17-18 say ....those who believe..." and "freely received" will do. How about you?
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/15884-our-testimonynormal-christianity/

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 25, 2012

again you walk yourself farther into a corner lesdude
again you leave out the early verses
in Matt 10 jesus is instructing the 12 apostles
we are not the apostles
learn to read your bible properly please.
thanks.

lesjude · Dec 25, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
again you walk yourself farther into a corner lesdude
again you leave out the early verses
in Matt 10 jesus is instructing the 12 apostles
we are not the apostles
learn to read your bible properly please.
thanks.

The Bible says "...those who believe..." and those who "have freely received" not just apostles will do these things. We do. How about you? He did send out 70 more to do the same things as the 12 plus Paul and Stephen in Acts healed. So clearly Jesus was refering to more than just the12, but who the Bible says He refers to, "those who believe". You do believe right?

If Jesus was only talking to the apostles then NONE of what he told them can be for today. Further Jesus was not talking to us as gentiles so NOTHING He taught is for us. Paul wrote his letters to specific churches, not us, so you are reading other people's mail. STOP IT!!! I trust you see how foolish interpreting the Bible your way is.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 26, 2012

If God instructs Noah to build an ark .... I do not feel that instruction is for me.

If jesus instructs his chosen 12 .... I do not automatically feel those instructions transmit to me.

And whenever i encounter people who feel they have the attributes of the chosen 12 .... I find they are unable to prove thier claims.

i do feel there are divine healings occuring today but it is as though God does them for his own purposes .... and we are not able to command them for ourselves any time we want.

I feel it is proper and correct to read the bible in context and distinguish when Jesus is instructing his 12 chosen apostles .... and to realize that we are the recipients of the teachings of the 12 .... but we are not the 12 ourselves.

the last book in the bible also confirms the uniqueness of the 12 .... the 12 foundations of the New Jerusalem contain the names of the 12 .... it does not have your name or my name on it .... sorry .... our names are in the book of life .... that is if we beleive the message of the 12 .

Why do you have several threads going at once about divine healing ?

Alanforchrist · Dec 26, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
if we could keep healing ourselves we would never get sick and die or anything .... and we would not need any of that saviour stuff and going to heaven stuff either. christ did not come to keep everybody phtsically healthy .... he never said such a thing. the 12 apostles were given the mandate to heal on a regular basis .... but that was often to prove their apostleship .... just like jesus performed miracles to authenticate himself.

anyone who claims we should be healing on a regular basis is givin us a crock .

We sould live to a good old age and die of natural causes, NOT THROUGH ANY SICKNESS.

If the Bible says Jesus has taken our sicknesses, And by His stripes we WERE [Past tense] healed, Then I for one am going to walk in Divine health.

You can argue with God if you want to, But I WLL believe Him.

tim_from_pa · Dec 26, 2012

I won't judge the attitude of the OP or anything personal about them or anyone who agrees, but I will say there's some valid scriptural points there in the OP, not the least of which Yahshua died for our sicknesses as well as sins, and with His stripes we are healed.

But I know the feeling.... while the OP'er probably hasn't been sick in years meanwhile there's a whole line of critics that probably live their lives with a medical doctor on pill after pill such as cholesterol, BP, depression, allergy meds, etc etc etc. I get the same type of flak as well. In the realistic sense, probably part of the reason some Christians are healthier is that they basically stay away from doctors (and such treatments) unless absolutely needed for emergencies. Going to the doctors too often is really the problem, and people end up sicker, and that's why I think they don't receive physical healing. How can one with all those chemical meds circulating in the body?

lesjude · Dec 26, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
Arnie Manitoba said:

If God instructs Noah to build an ark .... I do not feel that instruction is for me.

If jesus instructs his chosen 12 .... I do not automatically feel those instructions transmit to me.

Click to expand...

You should be building an ark of Bible faith for you and your family Hebrews 11:6. It may not seem important now because just as in Noah's time it has never "rained". People thought Noah was crazy until it did rain then it was too late. Trust me it IS going to "rain". Hard.

What will you do if the medical system cannot help you or a family member and you have no faith?

I will give you some free scriptural advice which is one of the first things I learned and did as a new Christian: Get out of ALL debt and stay out of ALL debt. We have not borrowed for ANYTHING in 35 years, not even vehicles. We own our homes, have for 30 years, and drive nice vehicles. Jesus provides abundantly. Our oldest son owns a new $120,000 home paid for which is the upper scale in our area. His income is VERY modest.

The Bible says "...those who believe..." and those who "have freely received" not just apostles will do these things. We do. How about you? He did send out 70 more to do the same things as the 12 plus Paul and Stephen in Acts healed. So clearly Jesus was refering to more than just the12, but who the Bible says He refers to, "those who believe". You do believe right?
What part of the above was not clear? Did you read Matthew 10:7-8 and Mark 16:17-18?

"If Jesus was only talking to the apostles then NONE of what he told them can be for today. Further Jesus was not talking to us as gentiles so NOTHING He taught is for us. Paul wrote his letters to specific churches, not us, so you are reading other people's mail. STOP IT!!! I trust you see how foolish interpreting the Bible your way is."

The above is where your thinking takes one. At least one large denomination has done just that saying the gospels are not for today.

Arnie Manitoba said:
And whenever i encounter people who feel they have the attributes of the chosen 12 .... I find they are unable to prove thier claims.

Click to expand...

No problem as I have said. Simply pay the cost to do these things yourself as the Bible says "those who believe" can.

i do feel there are divine healings occuring today but it is as though God does them for his own purposes .... and we are not able to command them for ourselves any time we want.

Jesus is God and He has ALWAYS healed for His glory and His people's good. There is NOTHING else taught in the Bible. You are saying He is a liar and has changed. Here is what the Bible says: Hebrews 13:8|
No, we are not commanding anything. We are just coming to God in simple child like faith trusting in His character and word to receive by grace through faith what He promises to give us. How about you?

I feel it is proper and correct to read the bible in context and distinguish when Jesus is instructing his 12 chosen apostles .... and to realize that we are the recipients of the teachings of the 12 .... but we are not the 12 ourselves.

ANYONE can and will do these things: John 14:12 Why not you?

the last book in the bible also confirms the uniqueness of the 12 .... the 12 foundations of the New Jerusalem contain the names of the 12 .... it does not have your name or my name on it .... sorry .... our names are in the book of life .... that is if we beleive the message of the 12 .

Well that leaves out the writer of most of the NT, Paul. The whole Bible is for anyone who will believe and receive by grace through faith including the OT. You do not seem to be willing to exercise faith for anything beyond John 3:16. There over 7000 positive promises in
in the Bible for believers.

Why do you have several threads going at once about divine healing ?

It is an issue that few seem to know what the Bible says on it. I am simply singing my song Psalm 40:1-3.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 27, 2012

Feel free to beleive whatever you want lesjude .... it really doesnt matter to me.

KingJ · Dec 27, 2012

Hi Lesjude. No offence, but you have some disturbing opinions on faith. You have to grasp Col 2:10 ''and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority''.

The only criteria to God answering our prayers is actually being a child. If we are not a child, because of free will, His hands are mostly tied. Christians have the faith block fully ticked when they are first saved. It takes more faith to believe in an unseen God, His Son who died 2000 years ago and that His death was for our sins don't you think? You are suggesting that we muster up 1kg of faith for healing when we have already mustered up 1000 tons of it for salvation :unsure:.

Then when you say you grasp certain scripture that others don't. It is like my one kid saying to me that because he read the requirements of a good father / speaks proper English / chooses and pronounces his words correctly / isn't nervous, that he has more rights to receive my blessings then his nervous / illiterate / younger sister

. God is a much better Father then I am and I have faith that He will not show favouritism or be naive.

If we are saved and not living in unrepentant sin, we can have equal boldness to ask God for anything. If He does not give us what we want, we must trust that It IS His will. We must also trust that God knows best. His will is best! He cares more about our souls making it to and being rewarded in heaven. It is as simple as that, no need to complicate it. We must be careful of stumbling others and this is a topic that easily can!! So re-read and edit posts many times!

lesjude · Dec 27, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
Feel free to beleive whatever you want lesjude .... it really doesnt matter to me.

Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Brothertom · Dec 27, 2012

One Major reason for Christian Illness is that God Himself brings the curse upon them, and primarily because Christians have become arrogant & selfish or hateful towards their brothers & sisters. We must honor the family of God, with mercies & compassion & AGAPE selflessness, & if we offend ONE, we must treat that one as if we have offended Jesus Himself, & repent, & make it right. Most misunderstand Communion; It is about the body in Common-Union/Love, & also misunderstand the Father God's jealousy to maintain that Agape Presence. God commands the curse upon those who defy Him, & refuse to love & mercy their family; NO MATTER their social or religious status

MANY ARE WEAK & SICK.

"For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner, eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. "
Their are times of testing & trial. Remember RIGHTEOUS Job. "Even though He slay me! YET..will I worship Him!" Job was afflicted, yet in the perfect will of God.
Elisha :
a. Elisha had become sick: Even men of faith and miracles are not immune to sickness and disease. This great man became sick like others whom he had healed as a channel of the power and blessing of God.." ELISHA had become sick with the illness of which he would die": Though God used Elisha on mstany occasions to heal others, God appointed this illness to be the means of taking Elisha from this world. God has no one single way that He does this; it is a mistake to believe that all the godly die in their sleep without a hint of prior illness....enduringword.com

Consider righteous Timothy, the heir apparent to Paul's Apostolic oversight:
"No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities."

Here is one of the most righteous & pure men in the New Testament, and yes, infirmities means being sick. FREQUENT illness, as he served God.

FEAR GOD!

lesjude · Dec 27, 2012

KingJ said:
Hi Lesjude. No offence, but you have some disturbing opinions on faith. You have to grasp Col 2:10 ''and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority''.

Click to expand...

I have given scripture for all my "opinions" and have lived them for 35 years which is NORMAL Christianity. I am sure I do "disturb" because if how we live is normal Christianity, and it is, what others live is not. When I got saved I changed. When I was pointed to a truth in the word I did not scoff and resist but set my heart to seek God to make it a reality in my life. He did and will continue to. How about you?
The fullness of Christ comes from the Acts 2:4 experience. The early church had it. I have it. How about you?
Please click and read: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/15884-our-testimonynormal-christianity/

The only criteria to God answering our prayers is actually being a child. If we are not a child, because of free will, His hands are mostly tied. Christians have the faith block fully ticked when they are first saved. It takes more faith to believe in an unseen God, His Son who died 2000 years ago and that His death was for our sins don't you think? You are suggesting that we muster up 1kg of faith for healing when we have already mustered up 1000 tons of it for salvation :unsure:.

Free will is nothing more then how one chooses to disobey God. A born again Christian only wants to do God's will. When I got saved all we did was consume the word to find out God's will and be trained by the Holy Spirit by grace through faith to do His will. We did what Romans 12:1 says and maintain it by grace through faith. Therefore we can prove what God's will is from His word and do it because He first loved us and we love Him.
Here is what Jesus says about faith for ANYTHING:

Mark 11:23-24
New King James Version (NKJV)

23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. 24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

AND Jesus says this is how much is needed to receive ANYTHING He promises:

Matthew 17:20
New King James Version (NKJV)

20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief;[a] for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.

EVERYONE receives a measure of faith at salvation so if one does not have at least a mustard seed of faith there should be a salvation check. However God gives it but a Christian has to submit to Holy Spirit training in its use and is responsible to grow in it by Romans 10:17 and Jude 20.
No, the Bible CLEARLY says physical healing was provided in Christ's atonement. Please click and read this link:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17084-answering-objections-to-physical-healing-in-the-atonement/

Then when you say you grasp certain scripture that others don't. It is like my one kid saying to me that because he read the requirements of a good father / speaks proper English / chooses and pronounces his words correctly / isn't nervous, that he has more rights to receive my blessings then his nervous / illiterate / younger sister . God is a much better Father then I am and I have faith that He will not show favouritism or be naive.

He is not a respecter of persons. However there are those who will submit to His loving training and those that resist or rebel. Here is the first life scripture Jesus ever gave me: 1 Samuel 15:22-23. Here is the second: Hebrews chapter 11. He told me I would learn Bible faith becuase Hebrews 11:6 is true.

If we are saved and not living in unrepentant sin, we can have equal boldness to ask God for anything. If He does not give us what we want, we must trust that It IS His will. We must also trust that God knows best. His will is best! He cares more about our souls making it to and being rewarded in heaven. It is as simple as that, no need to complicate it. We must be careful of stumbling others and this is a topic that easily can!! So re-read and edit posts many times!

You have it half right. Here is God's clear will about ANY promise:

2 Corinthians 1:20
New King James Version (NKJV)

20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
Look up the word save in Vines and how and where it is used in the NT to see what is promused. Also please click and read this link: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/15890-the-prayer-of-faith-vs-if-it-be-your-will/

Jesus clearly demonstrated His care for both sin forgiven and sicknesses healed by healing ALL that came to Him, at least 3 who were dead, and many who were not even saved. What you are saying is Jesus has changed. He has not Hebrews 13:8
As for stumbling here is what the Bible says to those in Christ:
Romans 8:1

New King James Version (NKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Everything I have given as a reason for not receiving healing is in the Bible. I will edit when shown they are not.

ObeyGODCommandments · Dec 27, 2012

lesjude said:
The Bible clearly gives the reasons and that healing is promised.

Demon possession/oppression can be a cause of sickness. Jesus cast out many demons and the result was healing. See also 2 Corinthians 7:1 for Christians needing deliverance.

Sin is how sickness came into the world so it follows that if a believer sins and refuses all correction from God then He can chasten with sickness. Repentance brings healing.
The healing of the sickness, not the sickness, is for the glory of God. John 9:1-3

Christians can be ill and stay ill from ignorance of the healing Jesus provided in the atonement.

Everyone gets the measure of faith from God but it is the believers responsibility to grow and exercise that faith (Romans 10:17 and Jude 20). If that responsibility is not met healing can be elusive. God can allow it to send that message of our responsibility if all else fails.

They can stay ill because they do not know what Bible faith is Hebrews 11, or how to put it to work James 2:18-26, Mark 11:24, 1 John 5:14-15 to receive healing. No one gets ANYTHING from God unless they exercise Bible faith praying according to His revealed will not "if it be thy will".

Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7) which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
There is a culture or climate of unbelief that is in the churches which hinders those who want to trust Jesus for healing by faith from doing so and hinders the work of healing miracles by the Holy Spirit.

I agree. About me and how I got healed; I use to suffer from anxiety and fear in the past where I constantly had to resist unwanted thoughts and so on. It lasted for about less than 3 months last year all because I use to stumble and fall. What made me change my life around was the bible. I left behind all the false teachings that I thought were true and have put my full trust in the bible, and that is why today I am a firm believer of the gospel. I stop doubting on myself and I told myself that I will not give up. Ever since I repented from my rebellion, I no longer put my trust in man, but in God. He healed me from all of the curses/plagues that were in my life and made my life peaceful/secure. One day while I was about to go to sleep, I fall into a deep trance/a deep sleep and saw the spirit of God descend upon me like a dove and I felt the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting in me. Till this day forward, I'm still filled with the Holy Spirit. I am able to see into the spirit realm and I am able to see visions. Those are the gifts that God has giving me as well as interpreting and prophesying. I am thankful for the comforter/the counselor.

Like I said, my faith and trust in God is what got me to overcome/to be healed. The bible taught me a lot about the world and the evil that is in it which is good to know so that people will be aware of the falsehood, wicked practices, evil schemes, craftiness of man, and etc... We have to die to our flesh everyday, that is why Christ said "pick up your cross and follow me." We must give up our fleshly desires, we just got to.

Yes, I agree that the bible teaches that evil spirits can cause mental behavior problems, diseases, sicknesses, severe pains, cancers, seizures, paralysis, and etc... The New Testament scriptures mentions about Jesus and his disciples casting out demons and healing the sick of these things.

What else does the bible say about evil spirits? The bible teaches that evil spirits can possess a person. One verse makes it clear on this subject such as verse Luke 11:24-26, which says,
“When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.”

Now, what is the house referred to? It refers to one's body.

Now what does the bible say about those who belong to God who are protected by the blood of Jesus Christ? The bible such as verse 1 John 5:18-20 says,
"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

What happens when a believer disobeys God? They become cursed.
To learn about curses and plagues, read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 "Curses for Disobedience" and Leviticus 26:14-46 "Punishment for Disobedience."

lesjude · Dec 27, 2012

ObeyGODCommandments said:
I agree. About me and how I got healed; I use to suffer from anxiety and fear in the past where I constantly had to resist unwanted thoughts and so on. It lasted for about less than 3 months last year all because I use to stumble and fall. What made me change my life around was the bible. I left behind all the false teachings that I thought were true and have put my full trust in the bible, and that is why today I am a firm believer of the gospel. I stop doubting on myself and I told myself that I will not give up. Ever since I repented from my rebellion, I no longer put my trust in man, but in God. He healed me from all of the curses/plagues that were in my life and made my life peaceful/secure. One day while I was about to go to sleep, I fall into a deep trance/a deep sleep and saw the spirit of God descend upon me like a dove and I felt the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting in me. Till this day forward, I'm still filled with the Holy Spirit. I am able to see into the spirit realm and I am able to see visions. Those are the gifts that God has giving me as well as interpreting and prophesying. I am thankful for the comforter/the counselor.

Like I said, my faith and trust in God is what got me to overcome/to be healed. The bible taught me a lot about the world and the evil that is in it which is good to know so that people will be aware of the falsehood, wicked practices, evil schemes, craftiness of man, and etc... We have to die to our flesh everyday, that is why Christ said "pick up your cross and follow me." We must give up our fleshly desires, we just got to.

Yes, I agree that the bible teaches that evil spirits can cause mental behavior problems, diseases, sicknesses, severe pains, cancers, seizures, paralysis, and etc... The New Testament scriptures mentions about Jesus and his disciples casting out demons and healing the sick of these things.

What else does the bible say about evil spirits? The bible teaches that evil spirits can possess a person. One verse makes it clear on this subject such as verse Luke 11:24-26, which says,
“When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.”

Now, what is the house referred to? It refers to one's body.

Now what does the bible say about those who belong to God who are protected by the blood of Jesus Christ? The bible such as verse 1 John 5:18-20 says,
"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

What happens when a believer disobeys God? They become cursed.
To learn about curses and plagues, read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 "Curses for Disobedience" and Leviticus 26:14-46 "Punishment for Disobedience."

Thank you for your testimony. I am blessed and encouraged. Keep on walking with Jesus because Jesus is KING!

KingJ · Dec 27, 2012

Lesjude, you are construing scripture to support your opinion. I see any discussion with you as a complete waste of time. Perhaps when you properly grasp what the devil tried to do to Jesus in tempting God we can discuss further. Until then (no offence) you sound more like the devil then Jesus. Note Jesus said 'you shalt NOT tempt the Lord your God'. Any attempt by you to explain yourself out of this hole and still believe as you do would merely show that you do not yet grasp what it means to not tempt God.

My friends who believed as you did and followed a certain individual with initials CB, whose name I won't mention in case I get in trouble :blink:, no longer follow him. Came close to losing their salvation they did. They were young Christians though so it can be expected. What doesn't add up for me is that you say you have been a Christian for 30 years (and market that well with the whole 'normal' Christianity saying to us ? abnormal ? Christians) and still believe like this? As was mentioned elsewhere this is Christianity 101. Why would you push something that is clearly tempting God if you are almost at 'elder' status? If you are sincere, fast on it for a while! Consider the risk of stumbling many of God's precious children (Matthew 18:6). There are enough signs right here just by counting how many respected posters disagree with you. Leave your comfort zone and come visit Africa. What are you doing on the internet and in first world countries? I would think that you would be the ideal candidate to be used by God in the towns that have the ebola virus outbreaks.

lesjude · Dec 27, 2012

KingJ said:
Lesjude, you are construing scripture to support your opinion. I see any discussion with you as a complete waste of time. Perhaps when you properly grasp what the devil tried to do to Jesus in tempting God we can discuss further. Until then (no offence) you sound more like the devil then Jesus. Note Jesus said 'you shalt NOT tempt the Lord your God'. Any attempt by you to explain yourself out of this hole and still believe as you do would merely show that you do not yet grasp what it means to not tempt God.

Click to expand...

What was unclear about what I said previously?
I have given scripture for all my "opinions" and have lived them for 35 years which is NORMAL Christianity. I am sure I do "disturb" because if how we live is normal Christianity, and it is, what others live is not. When I got saved I changed. When I was pointed to a truth in the word I did not scoff and resist but set my heart to seek God to make it a reality in my life. He did and will continue to. How about you?
The fullness of Christ comes from the Acts 2:4 experience. The early church had it. I have it. How about you?
Please click and read: http://www.christian...l-christianity/
You really have only 3 choices about our testimony: It is a lie. It is God. It is the devil. Christianity really is quite simple.

My friends who believed as you did and followed a certain individual with initials CB, whose name I won't mention in case I get in trouble :blink:, no longer follow him. Came close to losing their salvation they did. They were young Christians though so it can be expected. What doesn't add up for me is that you say you have been a Christian for 30 years (and market that well with the whole 'normal' Christianity saying to us ? abnormal ? Christians) and still believe like this?

What was unclear about this?

EVERYONE receives a measure of faith at salvation so if one does not have at least a mustard seed of faith there should be a salvation check. However God gives it but a Christian has to submit to Holy Spirit training in its use and is responsible to grow in it by Romans 10:17 and Jude 20.
No, the Bible CLEARLY says physical healing was provided in Christ's atonement. Please click and read this link:
http://www.christian...-the-atonement/

KingJ said:
As was mentioned elsewhere this is Christianity 101. Why would you push something that is clearly tempting God if you are almost at 'elder' status? If you are sincere, fast on it for a while! Consider the risk of stumbling many of God's precious children (Matthew 18:6). There are enough signs right here just by counting how many respected posters disagree with you. Leave your comfort zone and come visit Africa. What are you doing on the internet and in first world countries? I would think that you would be the ideal candidate to be used by God in the towns that have the ebola virus outbreaks.

Click to expand...

There is MORE than enough to do where we are. If you and your friends will pay the cost to do what Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 say then you should be able to handle those demons. It does say "freely you have recieved freely give" and "...those who believe..."

I suggest you stop calling Jesus a liar on the issue of His willingness to heal His people becuse you are robbing Jesus of what He died a terrible death to provide and His people of that provision.
Here is God's definition of a "respected poster":
Isaiah 8:20

New King James Version (NKJV)

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Matthew 12:36-37
New King James Version (NKJV)

36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 27, 2012

lesjude said:
Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

.
hebrews 11 is an excellent chapter that makes it clear we are saved by faith and we are rewarded if we seek the lord by faith ....

but you take a giant leap when you try to force-fit that chapter with your pre-conceived notion that we christians should be able to raise the dead in walmart (your words)

lesjude · Dec 27, 2012

Arnie Manitoba said:
.
hebrews 11 is an excellent chapter that makes it clear we are saved by faith and we are rewarded if we seek the lord by faith ....

but you take a giant leap when you try to force-fit that chapter with your pre-conceived notion that we christians should be able to raise the dead in walmart (your words)

Hey, you never know. 0 people prayed for equals 0 people raised from the dead. We have a family friend with a large ministry to about 300,000 Indians in Mexico. They have seen about 350 dead raisings, a few stinking dead, but they only have about a 10% success rate. In at least one of the areas the Indians made it a condition to be an native church elder to have raised the dead at least once.

A family member by marriage ministers to Indians in remote mountain villages. They had one woman raised from the dead in a village. The unsaved Indians became quite interested in the gospel. That is Biblical evangelism not 'medical missions'.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 27, 2012

lesjude said:
Hey, you never know. 0 people prayed for equals 0 people raised from the dead. We have a family friend with a large ministry to about 300,000 Indians in Mexico. They have seen about 350 dead raisings, a few stinking dead, but they only have about a 10% success rate. In at least one of the areas the Indians made it a condition to be an native church elder to have raised the dead at least once.

A family member by marriage ministers to Indians in remote mountain villages. They had one woman raised from the dead in a village. The unsaved Indians became quite interested in the gospel. That is Biblical evangelism not 'medical missions'.

.

here is a case where i agree miraculous healings and transformations can take place .... a lot of that happened in remote africa a few years ago too ... often these are missionaries among savages or people who cannot even read .... and god proves himself to them to bring salvation.

why is it we hear of these claims of the miraculous in the mountains but never any videos or anything. .... if i was there i would bring my cameras .... then if i came across a detractor or sceptic i would bring out the popcorn and turn on the movie for them.

in the meantime all we hear is somebody knows sombody who had a relative who saw a miracle in a far away land some time ago.

Is the Lord camera shy .... or is it the popcorn He doesn't like .... ?

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