Question About Faith
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HMMMM...
Exercise:
a : the act of bringing into play or realizing in action : use <the exercise of self-control>
b : the discharge of an official function or professional occupation <exercise of his judicial duties>
c : the act or an instance of carrying out the terms of an agreement (as an option) —often used attributively <an option's exercise price>
3
: something performed or practiced in order to develop, improve, or display a specific capability or skill <arithmetic exercises> <vocal exercises>
5
a : a maneuver, operation, or drill carried out for training and discipline <naval exercises>
m-w.com
I say yes.
Exercise:
a : the act of bringing into play or realizing in action : use <the exercise of self-control>
b : the discharge of an official function or professional occupation <exercise of his judicial duties>
c : the act or an instance of carrying out the terms of an agreement (as an option) —often used attributively <an option's exercise price>
3
: something performed or practiced in order to develop, improve, or display a specific capability or skill <arithmetic exercises> <vocal exercises>
5
a : a maneuver, operation, or drill carried out for training and discipline <naval exercises>
m-w.com
I say yes.
- Aug 10, 2012
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I said no then changed my mind.
Until Jesus saw the Father he exercised child-like faith. Until this time he meet the terms of the Hebrews 11:1 definition of faith: "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." And Jesus did see the Father according to John 1:18.
Then there are the situation where knowledge is withheld from Jesus, Matthew 24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Where knowledge is withheld faith fills the gap. There was probably much withheld in his childhood.
Even self-confidence would be counted to Jesus as faith. But don't read anything into that because it is his obedience that mattered.
Until Jesus saw the Father he exercised child-like faith. Until this time he meet the terms of the Hebrews 11:1 definition of faith: "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." And Jesus did see the Father according to John 1:18.
Then there are the situation where knowledge is withheld from Jesus, Matthew 24:36: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Where knowledge is withheld faith fills the gap. There was probably much withheld in his childhood.
Even self-confidence would be counted to Jesus as faith. But don't read anything into that because it is his obedience that mattered.
Of course He did,
without faith it is impossible to please God Heb 11:6
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen Heb 11:1
Did Jesus see the the Glory and manifestation of things to come "the reality" as He prepared the path for us all?
That many would also become the sons of God? of course not, but it was reviled threw faith, just as the writer of Hebrews 11 goes threw the OT pointing at everyone being confident of the promise to come threw faith.
So how does faith manifest itself? the assurance of things hoped for, manifest in the conviction of things not seen, this is the work of God in the power of the Holy Spirit. No man knows where the Spirit comes from or where it goes,
John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
But we HEAR THE SOUND OF IT.
We also experience the POWER
Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[a] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
So says Isaiah and latter Paul confirms. Romans 10:17
For me the most valuable item this world has to offer, that I can lay my hands on is not gold and silver or notoriety, but the very word of God My bible.
By faith threw grace I have received knowledge of the Holy One, who chooses to manifest Himself threw faith by knowing His word.
Didn't Jesus as well quote the word of God, as evidence of the things that He then spoke of?
Did He not speak the words of the New Covenant that we now by faith threw the "manifest in the conviction of things not seen" in the power and promise of the Holy Spirit know with certainty the truth? I say yes.
Did not Cornelius and his house hold by hearing the word of God receive the Holy Spirit? Acts 10:44 I say yes
John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
But we HEAR THE SOUND OF IT.
acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
The things hoped for "salvation" and the conviction "Spirit" of things not seen.
Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
I can only hope that you have heard the sound of the Holy Spirit threw the word of God as well
Some day every man will hear and know, but it may be to late.
Romans 14:11
I have a feeling this verse is going to be the manifestation "the reality" things hoped for and not conviction of faith
without faith it is impossible to please God Heb 11:6
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen Heb 11:1
Did Jesus see the the Glory and manifestation of things to come "the reality" as He prepared the path for us all?
That many would also become the sons of God? of course not, but it was reviled threw faith, just as the writer of Hebrews 11 goes threw the OT pointing at everyone being confident of the promise to come threw faith.
So how does faith manifest itself? the assurance of things hoped for, manifest in the conviction of things not seen, this is the work of God in the power of the Holy Spirit. No man knows where the Spirit comes from or where it goes,
John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
But we HEAR THE SOUND OF IT.
We also experience the POWER
Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[a] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
So says Isaiah and latter Paul confirms. Romans 10:17
For me the most valuable item this world has to offer, that I can lay my hands on is not gold and silver or notoriety, but the very word of God My bible.
By faith threw grace I have received knowledge of the Holy One, who chooses to manifest Himself threw faith by knowing His word.
Didn't Jesus as well quote the word of God, as evidence of the things that He then spoke of?
Did He not speak the words of the New Covenant that we now by faith threw the "manifest in the conviction of things not seen" in the power and promise of the Holy Spirit know with certainty the truth? I say yes.
Did not Cornelius and his house hold by hearing the word of God receive the Holy Spirit? Acts 10:44 I say yes
John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
But we HEAR THE SOUND OF IT.
acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
The things hoped for "salvation" and the conviction "Spirit" of things not seen.
Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
I can only hope that you have heard the sound of the Holy Spirit threw the word of God as well
Some day every man will hear and know, but it may be to late.
Romans 14:11
I have a feeling this verse is going to be the manifestation "the reality" things hoped for and not conviction of faith
Ok, we have our first no vote. I would be interested in hearing why that might be the answer given.
There are only 2 ways to walk. By sight, and by faith.
Being led by the Spirit, is it by sight, or by faith?
Matt_4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Being led by the Spirit, is it by sight, or by faith?
Matt_4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. (1Ti 4:7)
Jesus was not inherently godly.
Matt 19:17NET reveals precisely that even Jesus was required to exercise "goodness" for he was but flesh and blood.
TGG
Jesus was not inherently godly.
Matt 19:17NET reveals precisely that even Jesus was required to exercise "goodness" for he was but flesh and blood.
TGG
I believe I was the second 'No' vote... Jesus didn't need faith in the same sense that we do. He and the Father were One from the beginning, so God/Christ doesn't need faith because He is that He is. Faith is required for those who have not seen. Christ is whom we put our faith in, he doesn't need to have faith in himself, he is the object of our faith.biggandyy said:
That aside, Jesus did walk the walk and faithfully demonstrated obedience.
Jesus exercised not faith but Authority. All Authority was given to Him by His Father. That is where I was coming from and Dan got it pretty much spot on.
Agree or disagree? I'm still not sure one way or another but I fall on the Authority side of the question.
Agree or disagree? I'm still not sure one way or another but I fall on the Authority side of the question.
When Jesus spoke in John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father', He was exercising faith, I believe. It is as if He had to check with His Father, and have faith spoken in Him just like we do.
Also, His 'Authority' stems directly from His obedience to His Father, including and especially His submission to death on the cross -
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phil 2:5-8biggandyy said:
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Verses 5-11 The example of our Lord Jesus Christ is set before us. We must resemble him in his life, if we would have the benefit of his death. Notice the two natures of Christ; his Divine nature, and human nature. Who being in the form of God, partaking the Divine nature, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of God, Joh 1:1, had not thought it a robbery to be equal with God, and to receive Divine worship from men. His human nature; herein he became like us in all things except sin. Thus low, of his own will, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. Christ's two states, of humiliation and exaltation, are noticed. Christ not only took upon him the likeness and fashion, or form of a man, but of one in a low state; not appearing in splendour. His whole life was a life of poverty and suffering. But the lowest step was his dying the death of the cross, the death of a malefactor and a slave; exposed to public hatred and scorn. The exaltation was of Christ's human nature, in union with the Divine. At the name of Jesus, not the mere sound of the word, but the authority of Jesus, all should pay solemn homage. It is to the glory of God the Father, to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; for it is his will, that all men should honour the Son as they honour the Father, . Here we see such motives to self-denying love as nothing else can supply. Do we thus love and obey the Son of God?
http://www.studylight.org/com/mhc-con/view.cgi?book=php&chapter=002
Jesus did not call us to walk with the Father in a different way than He did. He is the forerunner of our faith. He proved it could be done. We cannot give Jesus an excuse and say "it cannot be done" because He does not know how difficult it is to walk by faith in the flesh. He knows. He walked the walk, first. And He gives of His Spirit, freely to all that ask.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
He is called the Faithfull witness for a reason. He was faithful unto death. He maintained His faith in the covenant between Him and His Father.
Act_2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act_2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption
Jesus would not tell us to be faithful unto death unless He did it first.
Rev_2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev_3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Only He obeyed His Father perfectly being faithful to all His Father's commands and thus is the ONLY One who is worthy to be called FAITHFUL and TRUE.
Rev_19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Christians exercise authority, too, but they still have to walk by faith and not sight.
Christians exercise authority on exactly the same basis as Jesus did - that they obey Father God and Jesus Christ His Son, by the grace given them through the Holy Spirit.
Axehead
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
He is called the Faithfull witness for a reason. He was faithful unto death. He maintained His faith in the covenant between Him and His Father.
Act_2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act_2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption
Jesus would not tell us to be faithful unto death unless He did it first.
Rev_2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev_3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Only He obeyed His Father perfectly being faithful to all His Father's commands and thus is the ONLY One who is worthy to be called FAITHFUL and TRUE.
Rev_19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Christians exercise authority, too, but they still have to walk by faith and not sight.
Christians exercise authority on exactly the same basis as Jesus did - that they obey Father God and Jesus Christ His Son, by the grace given them through the Holy Spirit.
Axehead
Interesting article I stumbled onto doing some research...
http://www.ccr.org.uk/archive/gn0807/g10.htm
http://www.ccr.org.uk/archive/gn0807/g10.htm
For our topic I think that the verse I quoted earlier is better expressed in the ESV.
Phil 2:6
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Jesus is the first born over all creation, He being in the beginning is the expression of God the Father threw whom all things were created.
The understanding of what some call the trinity. Its important to understand this relationship to understand Jesus is the authority over all creation but yet sets an example for us in the faith relationship He also shares with the Father, I expressed you faith about this relationship here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/5472-what-is-the-trinity/page-2#entry176677
I like the words chosen in this translation "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped" though He accepts worship from the creation and exercises authority over it as well. But He describes His relationship to the Father in the same manner "example" that we should express in Him. For the Father has placed Him over all things. Matthew 11:27 Eph 1:2 Luke 10:22 the fullness and subjection of all creation is of course still pending 1 Cor 15:28
As we can see Jesus perspective is "equality with God is not a thing to be grasped" Why? because He also says "The Father is greater than I". John 14:28
In context with the word Jesus submitted and gave up His the glory He had, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. To become a man in the flesh, the same flesh we all have in common. I like to describe it people as an old bet up car, our flesh as compared to what we will be, the same as what Jesus was before He was born a man. None the less He took this bet-up car with all of it weakness and drove a perfect race. As an example the Father caused Him to walk just as Jesus causes us to walk in Him as well.
I'm starting to ramble and a personal point i still want to make is, my entire walk with Christ has always contained a special reverence for the Father. Its rather hard to express but Jesus is whom I always pray my entire relationship is Jesus, He's my best friend He strengthens me causes me to be what I have become so far. Though I know Jesus in Spirit has presented me before the Father but for lack of a better expression He is yet to be known as I know my Lord.
This is simply a personal statement and Im going to be late for work.Latter
Phil 2:6
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Jesus is the first born over all creation, He being in the beginning is the expression of God the Father threw whom all things were created.
The understanding of what some call the trinity. Its important to understand this relationship to understand Jesus is the authority over all creation but yet sets an example for us in the faith relationship He also shares with the Father, I expressed you faith about this relationship here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/5472-what-is-the-trinity/page-2#entry176677
I like the words chosen in this translation "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped" though He accepts worship from the creation and exercises authority over it as well. But He describes His relationship to the Father in the same manner "example" that we should express in Him. For the Father has placed Him over all things. Matthew 11:27 Eph 1:2 Luke 10:22 the fullness and subjection of all creation is of course still pending 1 Cor 15:28
As we can see Jesus perspective is "equality with God is not a thing to be grasped" Why? because He also says "The Father is greater than I". John 14:28
In context with the word Jesus submitted and gave up His the glory He had, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. To become a man in the flesh, the same flesh we all have in common. I like to describe it people as an old bet up car, our flesh as compared to what we will be, the same as what Jesus was before He was born a man. None the less He took this bet-up car with all of it weakness and drove a perfect race. As an example the Father caused Him to walk just as Jesus causes us to walk in Him as well.
I'm starting to ramble and a personal point i still want to make is, my entire walk with Christ has always contained a special reverence for the Father. Its rather hard to express but Jesus is whom I always pray my entire relationship is Jesus, He's my best friend He strengthens me causes me to be what I have become so far. Though I know Jesus in Spirit has presented me before the Father but for lack of a better expression He is yet to be known as I know my Lord.
This is simply a personal statement and Im going to be late for work.Latter
Now I understand something.
I understand what you're saying from the opposite perspective - that somehow, the Son has revealed the Father to me, and although I do call upon the Lord many times and many ways, how He has revealed Himself to me has been far more patchy than my comprehension of the Father seems to be. But let me acknowledge I have found it difficult to keep a steady gaze on the Son, and yet, I know He has healed me profoundly, through His role as the Great Physician. I certainly feel like a child in His presence, and, I know that I need His ministry through the Holy Spirit.
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