Is God more than the Bible?

Justin Mangonel · Dec 23, 2012

Dear S,

That was well said.

Dear V,

The word is what is written about God but is not God himself. S is right about the Logos being different than the written word.

Dear R,

No one is saying that the word of God is not important only that God is more than His written word.

Rex · Dec 23, 2012

Justin Mangonel said:
Dear S,

That was well said.

Dear V,

The word is what is written about God but is not God himself. S is right about the Logos being different than the written word.

Dear R,

No one is saying that the word of God is not important only that God is more than His written word.

Dear J
well blow me down

I'm totally shocked

to find out the catholic church doesn't believe or follow the bible ether. there is so much more that can be added, it's so incomplete and terribly inadequate for full sanctification.

No one is saying that the word of God is not important

It simply takes a back seat to pulling rabbits out of hats
you did say you were Pentecostal in the polygamy thread. I'm glad you have both discovered a common foundational fundamental. Have fun with it.

Axehead · Dec 23, 2012

The written word becomes the living word when the Spirit gives it life.

Justin Mangonel · Dec 24, 2012

Dear All,

Rabbits are very important and useful in interpreting scriptures. They come in all shapes and sizes and some are not what you might think are rabbits of all. Rabbits, as R suggested, most often are used in conjunction with hats. No one knows why this is the case for rabbits and hats really have little in common other than the fact that most rabbits can fit in one.

I believe, however, the more important question to ask is, "Which came first, the rabbit or the hat?" Scholars have debated this existential question for centuries yet I believe scripture provides us with the answer.

It is written,

"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 1:25

From this verse we learn that the beast of the earth were made even before man. Therefore, since hats are an invention of man it fallows, from scripture, that rabbits definitely proceeded hats.

There are some, granted, that still cling to the old fashioned notion that hats were created by God and have always existed. A small but ardent group of people still insist that hats are eternal and with God as part of the Logos from the beginning. Thought, modern theology has proven them wrong time and time again they refuse to budge. These people are commonly referred to as the "Hattites."

One should be careful when pulling rabbits out of hats. If done improperly all manner of chaos can insure. One such theologian that carelessly pulled are rabbit out a hat messed up the nature of God since the third century. Another, in his hubris, pulled an unwilling rabbit out of a hat and thus created the doctrine of monogamy only. Needless to say we all chuckle as such amateiourish hat tricks today but back in those times people took their rabbits very seriously.

In conclusion, I thank R for bring up the doctrine of rabbit pulling for this is fundamental to any rational discussion of doctrine. Without the proper use of rabbits nothing of value can every be decided in when it comes to discussion of the scriptures.

Rex · Dec 24, 2012

Dear J
That doesn't fool anyone, you have yet to address my post where scripture is silent about both your hat and your rabbit, a metaphor for not being found in the teachings outlined in the bible.
As well as your argument foundation "tongues" in post 5.

Justin Mangonel · Dec 24, 2012

Dear R,

Teachings, often times, are in the eye of the beholder. Here is a scripture for you,

It is written,

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

John 21:5

Therefore, my rabbit says, that there are many more things that Jesus did than are written in the Bible. Therefore, Jesus, who is God manifest in the flesh, did things that are not recorded. Therefore, God is more than the Bible.

I guess you do not speak in other tongues? How can you be Spirit filled? My rabbit is wondering.

Rex · Dec 25, 2012

Justin Mangonel said:
Dear R,

Teachings, often times, are in the eye of the beholder. Here is a scripture for you,

It is written,

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

John 21:5

Therefore, my rabbit says, that there are many more things that Jesus did than are written in the Bible. Therefore, Jesus, who is God manifest in the flesh, did things that are not recorded. Therefore, God is more than the Bible.

I guess you do not speak in other tongues? How can you be Spirit filled? My rabbit is wondering.

Why lookie there, your very own rabbit hole John 21:25 ----->> your very own door to wonderland.
I suppose you believe it to be the narrow path as well. BTW Watch out for the Queen of hearts

But I'm afraid your going to have to share the rabbit hole with your new friend Selene.
After all I do believe the source of her faith has been using it for hundreds of years.

And you DID notice the word DID in the verse quoted? DIDN'T you notice the word DID is not the word TEACH or TAUGHT or the word REVELATION, as in new revelations.

That makes your verse in support of extra biblical TEACHINGS a DUD because Jesus DID many things. He did not teach many things contrary the written word.

Justin Mangonel said:
It is written,

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

John 21:5

Therefore, my rabbit says, that there are many more things that Jesus did than are written in the Bible. Therefore, Jesus, who is God manifest in the flesh, did things that are not recorded. Therefore, God is more than the Bible.

I guess you do not speak in other tongues? How can you be Spirit filled? My rabbit is wondering.

Justin Mangonel · Dec 25, 2012

Dear Rex,

This is what I am trying to say about those who cannot hear because they will not hear. When I quote a very plain passage and the point I make is very clear still those who have predetermined that anything that goes against their doctrine is wrong simply won't see it. This is why I don't normally bother to quote scripture becuase if I have to then it most likely means that those who are asking me to are not open to hear it.

However, I do believe it is important to put the truth out there for there are many who read and perhaps consider the truths I am sharing. It is for those who have ears to hear that I am posting.

mjrhealth · Dec 25, 2012

Selene, #20

Nice Post

In all His Love

Rex · Dec 25, 2012

Justin Mangonel said:
Dear Rex,

This is what I am trying to say about those who cannot hear because they will not hear. When I quote a very plain passage and the point I make is very clear still those who have predetermined that anything that goes against their doctrine is wrong simply won't see it. This is why I don't normally bother to quote scripture becuase if I have to then it most likely means that those who are asking me to are not open to hear it.

However, I do believe it is important to put the truth out there for there are many who read and perhaps consider the truths I am sharing. It is for those who have ears to hear that I am posting.

When I quote a very plain passage and the point I make is very clear
Where did this take place? in post #5?

Point is that all the scriptures which speak of the Holy Spirit are talking about a broad experience...a large and complex phenomenon. Certain scriptures speak to certain aspects of it but I don't believe that they speak to every possible permutation of it. When people today talk about shaking, laughing, roaring, barking etc. they sometimes reject these particular manifestations because there is no chapter and verse that specifically speaks to them. Therefore, some erroneously assume that these are not of God and either are just made up or, worse yet, of the devil.

However, I don't believe the scriptures were meant to show everything of God but rather to record His dealings and thoughts for our edification.

Post #8 perhaps

Likewise, the Holy Spirit, which in reality is simply God who is a Spirit and is holy, is unimaginable vast. To limit God to what was written in the Bible is not proper.

post #12

I don't know why some assume that scriptures piled one upon another prove their point. This is not a numbers games. Truth is not measured by weight of quotations. I counted 14 scriptures that R quoted and he used them to make a point which is completely beside the point. It is the truth that matters not the ability to list scripture which do not speak to the truth.

This ones a jewel, has God realty said? test his word and eat ---->> he'll rescue you.

Children who know their father are happy and secure. They are inquisitive and curious. They want to explore the word confident in the fact that their Father watches over them and will rescue them if they get into trouble. If you are fearful and cower in the theological corner then you do not know the Father I serve. My Father gives good gifts and wants us to know Him in ever deeper and fulfilling ways

Post 15 the deception radar indicates you wish and encourage people to leave the word behind

Look for the heart and voice of God in what people say. Consider what the core is of what they are trying to express rather than just react to certain phrases that show up on your deception radar.

Post 21

The word is what is written about God but is not God himself. S is right about the Logos being different than the written word.

Dear R,

No one is saying that the word of God is not important only that God is more than His written word.

Here you try to indicate in John 21:25 there is more to be known; when the scripture is clearly speaking about the things Jesus did. Not about what He taught.
Post

It is written,

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

The clear theme threw out your post is you encourage people to follow a feeling rather than the word. The NT has many warnings about leaving what the Apostles taught.
A small sample of warnings about false teachers

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed" (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6).

"but there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovreign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3).

"Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to the faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:18-20).

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth..." (2 Timothy 2:15-18).

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

"'I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears" (Acts 20:29-31).

"dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Justin Mangonel · Dec 25, 2012

Dear R,

You know, it just occurred to me that you are perhaps my disciple in waiting. You are reading, quite carefully, what I write and thus it is getting into you. I think this is good because I can see that you do have zeal to serve God. Perhaps one day, as you come to know God better, these things that you are trying to fight against will begin to make sense to you and will become a blessing. Right now you are focused on tearing down what I say but one day I think you willmay use these precepts to build up God's people.

What I encourage all to do is to listen, hear, and obey on time. The one that you listen to is the Holy Spirit and He is not a feeling but a person. Quite often, when you meet God it is a very emotional experience and I think that is what people get mixed up about when they despise manifestations. Emotion is simply a byproduct of spiritual experiences. We were made to interact with God and when we do it is like giving a cup of cold water to a man dying of thirst. No one would despise a man acting desperate to drink life saving water and we should not despise others when they finally get a sip of the Holy Spirit. Most of Christianity is a matter of the heart and not the mind. Our hearts are emotional and they do react to our God. We should not criticize those who are simply trying to have more of God. We should be glad for them.

You seek to try to limit God to your understanding of His word. Though I have studied the scriptures I seek to also understand more and more of God through experiencing Him. You seek to convince others that God is not more than what is written in the Bible. I seek to bring understanding to people that God is far greater than the Bible so that they will be free in their hearts and minds to accept Him when He comes in unexpected ways. You seek control I seek liberation. If you could turn your passion for God towards greater freedom for yourself and others I think God could use you even more effectively. We are looking for the glorious liberty of the sons of God...that is our destination.

People had a lot of patience and mercy towards me when I was a legalist. I am glad they did because I really wanted to serve God. I thought I was so right yet I could not understand why I was so miserable. Like Paul I had to have a direct experience with God to realize my error. When I did it was very humbling and jut wrenching. Thank God that people loved me through it. Even when people don't seem to be on your same page, Rex, you must seek to love them for that is how Christ got the world to listen to Him.

Rex · Dec 25, 2012

I''m not interested in following you' you exhibit all the attributes of a cult leader, your followers will be encouraged to include polygamy as well as listening to you as being the prophet. Reveling new revelations that are nether spoken of or taught by the Apostles, thats your vision and and I believe thats what your fishing for, people that will submit to the gospel of Justin Mangonel

I suggest you pray on others that aren't mature or firmly rooted in the truth, those that are easily swayed from the faith.
I've spent 35 years reading Gods word its rather easy to see those that teach as a doctrine of truth things that are not confirmed by Jesus or the Apostles.

Being a legalist is not the same as one that follows teachings, legalist are concerned with law not grace. Its another topic and teaching that seeks to place people back into bondage.
You take it a step further, grace for you has become a license to do and believe as you see fit.

Justin Mangonel · Dec 25, 2012

Dear R,

I stand by my assesment. Time will tell...smile

Thegoodground · Dec 26, 2012

BiggAndyy said:
If the Bible were greater than God then the Bible would be God and inaccessible to finite man.

If the Bible were equal with God then the Bible would make the Trinity the Quadrinity and inaccessible to finite man.

If the Bible were less than God then the Bible would be accessible to finite man for our edification, instruction, and joy.

Should have gone without saying...

And yet that same Word declares:

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
(Rom 11:33)

I guess the Apostle Paul did not get your brief

Rex · Dec 26, 2012

Thegoodground said:
And yet that same Word declares:

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
(Rom 11:33)

I guess the Apostle Paul did not get your brief

Justins not concerned with God being more than Hes disclosed threw his word, his motivation or goal for bring it up is to convincing people he holds extra biblical rev. Just as the serpent did in Gen, questioning Gods word,

If you believe that's his point ----->>l I'm sure he would like to make you his disciple. He'll come give you a nice pat on the back and lead you down the road of "the book of Justin Man-gone"

Justin Mangonel said:
You know, it just occurred to me that you are perhaps my disciple in waiting.

How about no eye has seen or mind conceived; that verse as well proves we don't know all there is to know, Jesus Himself said no man knows the day or hour not even himself, but the NT carries warnings about straying from what the Disciples and Jesus taught. Just as God warned Adam "the day you eat of it you will surly die" You can simply glue this new gospel next to John's. Maybe then you'll by chance happen to notice the warnings about those that teach another gospel.

Its people like you hes looking for, I quoted some of his choice phrases here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17289-is-god-more-than-the-bible/#entry178654

The clear theme threw out your post is you encourage people to follow a feeling rather than the word. The NT has many warnings about leaving what the Apostles taught.
A small sample of warnings about false teachers

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed" (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6).

"but there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovreign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3).

"Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to the faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:18-20).

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth..." (2 Timothy 2:15-18).

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

"'I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears" (Acts 20:29-31).

"dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

veteran · Dec 26, 2012

Selene said:
The Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not the same as the Holy Bible (Scripture). Jesus Christ is the Logos who existed with God at the beginning. The word "scripture" is "graphe" in Greek. Logos (Word of God) and graphe (scripture, which is also the word of God) are not the same. One is the written word while the other is the LIVING Word. Jesus Christ is greater than the Holy Bible because Christ is God. The Holy Bible is not God and should never be worshiped as God.

Read Bullinger's work The Witness of The Stars and then try to tell me The Word of God is not the same as what's written in The Holy Bible.

Justin Mangonel · Dec 26, 2012

Dear V,

I don't have time to read that but I would like to know what Bullinger's general thrust was.

mjrhealth · Dec 26, 2012

I was watching a show the otherd day, about missing books un teh bible. It seems one guy read the bible , and decided that he didnt like the OT because it made God to look like a murdering so and so, and God to him was not like that at all, and so he rewrote it, leaving out the whole Ot and any references to it in the NT, Now if that is teh kind of affect it would have on one who supposedly loves God, makes you wonder, doesnt it.

In All His LOve

Justin Mangonel · Dec 26, 2012

Dear M,

I guess it makes people nervous when we cannot define everything in Christianity. They think, "if there is are no hard and fast rules then we will have anarchy!" Left to our own devices man will almost always get things wrong when it comes to understanding God. However, we have been given the Spirit of truth who can lead and guide us into all truth if we will listen. Some people want to corral God's people with doctrine and make them stay within the confines of whatever truth they have decided is right. However, I think the shepherding of God's sheep is best left up to God Himself. The offices of the church are transitory and ultimately we all have to stand before God and allow Him to lead us directly.

Those who are fearful say that chaos will ensue if we actually allow people to be led by the Spirit. However, is that any worse than the hypocrisy that exists in our congregations today? Is disobedience better because it is hidden? At least, if everyone is allowed and even encouraged to either follow or not follow the Holy Spirit the sin which is hidden will be made manifest.

The bottom line is that those who freak out about God being more than is contained within the Bible simply do not trust God to lead His people. However, if not Him then who?

veteran · Dec 27, 2012

Justin Mangonel said:
Dear V,

I don't have time to read that but I would like to know what Bullinger's general thrust was.

Bullinger, who was an excellent 19th century Christian Bible scholar, traveled to various archeological artifacts to discover the true origins of the ancient zodiac constellation names and meanings. Some of that involves the ancient artifacts in Egypt, etc.

What he found was the original names and meanings for the 12 star constellations became corrupted over time by pagan religion. The actual most ancient names and meanings directly relate to events and characters in The Word of God.

His work is a deep scholarly level work, not just a bunch of conjecture and opinion. He gives archeaological and historical linguistic evidence in that work.

It reveals that God's Word is written in the 12 main star constellations, and the so-called zodiac (Mazzaroth of Job 38:31-32) is much more ancient than secular history assumes.

Is God more than the Bible?

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