Pope Says Future Of Mankind At Stake Over Gay Marraige

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Foreigner

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I am curious about how this is seen by my Catholic brothers and sisters.
Is the Pope the final word on Catholic doctrine/beliefs?
Does he reflect the actual stance of the Catholic church on this issue or is his opinion "more of a guideline" as one Catholic on this board told me?
Either the Pope is correct or he is misreading what he thinks God feels, correct?




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/9760782/Pope-says-future-of-mankind-at-stake-over-gay-marriage.html

Pope says future of mankind at stake over gay marriage Pope Benedict XVI has weighed in on a heated debate over gay marriage, criticising new concepts of the traditional family and warning that mankind itself was at stake.






Pope Benedict XVI Photo: REUTERS











PopeBenedictXVI_2434479b.jpg





"In the fight for the family, the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question," the Pope said in Italian during an end-of-year speech.


"The question of the family ... is the question of what it means to be a man, and what it is necessary to do to be true men," he said.


The Pope spoke of the "falseness" of gender theories and cited at length France's chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim, who has spoken out against gay marriage.


"Bernheim has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper," he said.


He cited feminist gender theorist Simone de Beauvoir's view to the effect that one is not born a woman, but one becomes so – that sex was no longer an element of nature but a social role people chose for themselves.


"The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious," he said.
The defence of the family, the Pope said, "is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears."
On Monday, the Vatican's newspaper described laws on gay marriage as an attempt at a communist-like "utopia", a day after tens of thousands of demonstrators turned out in France to support legalising both marriages and adoption for gay couples.
France's parliament is to debate the government-backed "marriage for all" bill early next year.
With President Francois Hollande's Socialists enjoying a strong majority, the bill is expected to pass despite vehement opposition from the right and religious groups.
 

Pelaides

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Its a waste of time to start a post like this,because they are going to put a lock on it.
So much for free speach L.O.L.
 

Selene

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Foreigner said:
I am curious about how this is seen by my Catholic brothers and sisters.
Is the Pope the final word on Catholic doctrine/beliefs?
Does he reflect the actual stance of the Catholic church on this issue or is his opinion "more of a guideline" as one Catholic on this board told me?
Either the Pope is correct or he is misreading what he thinks God feels, correct?




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/9760782/Pope-says-future-of-mankind-at-stake-over-gay-marriage.html

Pope says future of mankind at stake over gay marriage Pope Benedict XVI has weighed in on a heated debate over gay marriage, criticising new concepts of the traditional family and warning that mankind itself was at stake.






Pope Benedict XVI Photo: REUTERS











PopeBenedictXVI_2434479b.jpg





"In the fight for the family, the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question," the Pope said in Italian during an end-of-year speech.


"The question of the family ... is the question of what it means to be a man, and what it is necessary to do to be true men," he said.


The Pope spoke of the "falseness" of gender theories and cited at length France's chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim, who has spoken out against gay marriage.


"Bernheim has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper," he said.


He cited feminist gender theorist Simone de Beauvoir's view to the effect that one is not born a woman, but one becomes so – that sex was no longer an element of nature but a social role people chose for themselves.


"The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious," he said.
The defence of the family, the Pope said, "is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears."
On Monday, the Vatican's newspaper described laws on gay marriage as an attempt at a communist-like "utopia", a day after tens of thousands of demonstrators turned out in France to support legalising both marriages and adoption for gay couples.
France's parliament is to debate the government-backed "marriage for all" bill early next year.
With President Francois Hollande's Socialists enjoying a strong majority, the bill is expected to pass despite vehement opposition from the right and religious groups.
The moral teachings of the Church has already been set. What the Pope is saying here about gay marriage is not new nor does it go against the moral teachings of the Church.
 

Foreigner

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Selene said:
The moral teachings of the Church has already been set. What the Pope is saying here about gay marriage is not new nor does it go against the moral teachings of the Church.
-- So the Pope is correct when he says that mankind is at stake over gay marraige.

So, if the Pope says that, and his statement is simply an agreement with existing church teachings, then the Catholic church itself feels that gay marraige is a threat to mankind.

If that is the case, then those who are Catholic but support gay marraige, are actually going against "the moral teachings of the Church."

So then, those Catholics who believe in and support gay marraige should then - at least by Catholic teachings - be denied Communion, correct?




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epostle1

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Receiving Holy Communion worthily is not between the recipient and the Church, it is between them and God. Denying a person Communion is usually decided by the local bishop, and usually done for those who publicly support abortion. Denying Communion is not a punishment, it is for the person's protection, which is why non-Catholics should not receive. Homosexuals in a same gender sexual relationship cannot be in full communion with the Church, and if they receive Holy Communion they do so at their own risk. Holy Communion is not just eating a wafer, it means you are in union with the Church's teaching. That is what communion means. It is not up to the priest to judge the state of a persons soul, and all my years as a Catholic I have never seen anyone denied communion. It's a non-issue.

Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the "family of God" shall eat the lamb.

1 Cor. 11:27-29 - in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ.

1 Cor. 11:30 - this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.

1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.
source
 

justaname

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Kepha31,

I think you are a bit mistaken here
"1 Cor. 11:27-29 - in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ."


27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

The understanding is a bit different than what you are conveying. Scripture supports what I am saying here.
1 Peter 3:18
Romans 6:9-10
Hebrews 7:27
Hebrews 9:28

To the OP, if a Bishop decides you can not receive communion and you decide to stay with Roman affiliation you had better move to a different district, or not receive communion at all. No the Pope is not the final word on doctrine/beliefs, beliefs in particular have changed through time (Mary is a great example). Doctrine is believed to have not changed at all, although some may disagree.
 

KingJ

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Foreigner said:
I am curious about how this is seen by my Catholic brothers and sisters.
Is the Pope the final word on Catholic doctrine/beliefs?
Does he reflect the actual stance of the Catholic church on this issue or is his opinion "more of a guideline" as one Catholic on this board told me?
Either the Pope is correct or he is misreading what he thinks God feels, correct?
When I read 1 Cor 7 I can't help but notice how often Paul says 'I say'. Paul could give his opinion on matters as he was entrusted by God to give his opinion (His opinion never went against scripture, alot of it was merely logical application). Then there is 1 Cor 6:3 ''Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?''.

Paul, Christians, pope can make laws and statements that should be taken seriosuly.

Getting back to what he actually said, it's about time he said that :). I respect him for saying. It was surely in the face of much opposition.
 

Foreigner

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"Denying Communion is not a punishment, it is for the person's protection, which is why non-Catholics should not receive." - kepha31

-- Protection from what? Every single day tens of thousands of Catholics who are divorced, committing adultery, supporting gay rights, supporting abortion or are participating in a litany of other sins take Communion with no repercussion. On Sundays that number reaches the millions.

And the Catholic church has already acknowledged that there are millions of non-Catholic Christians around the world who are saved, serving God and are going to heaven....even without taking Catholic Communion.

As far as Communion, Jesus said, "Do this in memory of me." He gave no criteria as to who is worthy or allowed. Man created that criteria later, without His input.

But Kepha, are you really trying to say that support of something the Pope homself says "threatens the future of all mankind" is not something that would - by Catholic standards - warrant the denail of Communion?




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Rex

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That would be a half communion BTW
Only bread for the laity of the catholic church no wine or juice.
Always wondered, can true communion not include the the drink "the blood" I personally don't think so.

That pretty much protects everyone from communion because it not communion at all. And kephas statement spells that out. Its communion with the church not Christ.
Holy Communion is not just eating a wafer, it means you are in union with the Church's teaching.

You can keep your magic cookies I have no need of them. Without both the bread and wine its a dishonoring of the Lords last supper period.
 

bosco

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Rex, the laity in the Catholic Church are encouraged to drink from the cup these days... and when they were not, it was because the body CONTAINS the blood; one receives both by receiving the host, in other words. The reason to drink from the cup is the fuller symbology, not a greater participation in the reality. And since Paul described the church itself as the body of Christ-- to be in communion with the church on a biblical level is to be in communion with Christ. There isn't a separation in the theology of the New Testament between the two.

In any event, as to the OP-- whether or not it's a pope or an atheist saying it, I would imagine that all Christians could agree on the statements made as to the significance of both family and marriage, and the attacks on/redefinition of both-- right?
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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I am not Catholic but I agree with the Pope

If we remove all the restraints of sin .... then yes .... it will certainly lead to the downfall of mankind.

Rev 9: 20-21 gives us a glimpse of such a society. ...... 20 The rest of mankind .................... 21 did not repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immoralityor their thefts.
 

aspen

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This OP has nothing to do with the Pope or the future of mankind. Foreigner, are you ever going to weary of trying to trap people you disagree with? Mark 10:2 comes to mind.....
 

teamventure

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Foreigner said:
And just how - exactly - is that blasphemous?
Please be specific.
blasphemy includes making a joke of something sacred. it's really quite simple.
 

Foreigner

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teamventure said:
blasphemy includes making a joke of something sacred. it's really quite simple.
Blasphemy: "The act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk."

Take another look and see for yourself there is nothing at all sacrilegious about that joke.

Like this joke:

God said to Adam, "I am going to make you a helper, a companion. What would you like your companion to be like?" Adam replied, "Well I want someone that is humorous, witty, intelligent, compassionate, caring, loving, trusting, polite, generous and beautiful."
God paused a moment after Adam's wish list and told Adam that a companion like that 'would cost him an arm and a leg.' Adam seemed a little dejected and then brightly replied: "What can I get for a Rib?"