Changed At The Twinkling Of An Eye

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veteran

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In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul gave this about the change of those on earth at the "last trump"...

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)


For that "Death is swallowed up in victory", Paul was pulling from the Isaiah 25 Scripture. Isaiah 25 includes all peoples and nations alive on earth being included in that...

Isa 25:7-8
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
(KJV)


Only with that latter statement of "...and the rebuke of His people shall He take away..." is about God's people specifically. This is why Paul said in those 1 Cor.15 verses that "we shall all be changed" at that event. That includes those of the nations too.

Where else in the Old Testament prophets was Paul pulling this from, with it happening "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye"?


Isa 24:1-23
1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.


This word "empty" is Hebrew baqaq and it means to 'pour out', like you'd turn a bottle upside down to empty its contents and it makes a bagloop, bagloop type of sound. That's the kind of expression our Heavenly Father used here for the destruction on the last day of this world.

In the 3rd verse, the idea "utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled" is Hebrew baqaq again along with the idea of spoiled or plundered ('baqaq-baqaq-bazaz-bazaa' = poured out, poured out, spoiled, spoiled'). That event is emphazied.


Isa.24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
(KJV)


Because man has broken God's everlasting covenant the earth has become in a desolate state for the end, and the final answer is God's consuming fire as per these events which Apostle Peter also hinted at in 2 Peter 3:10 with man's works to be burned off it on the "day of the Lord".


Isa.24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)


Just so one knows the timing of this is for the very end of this world, those Scriptures above point directly to it, and then Christ's future reign with His elect from Jerusalem.


Here is another OT reference to that coming event...

Isa 29:5-8
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
(KJV)


Per Zephaniah 3, God said it was His determination to gather the nations so as to pour out His indignation upon them. That is about His cup of wrath poured out upon the earth on the last day of this world. So this event is linked with the time of God's cup of wrath being poured out upon the earth.

Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
(KJV)



This event of God's shaking the earth, figuratively turning it upside down, burning its surface with fire, at an instant suddenly on the last day of this world, is also what the destruction of the Gog-Magog armies out of the northern quarters is about...

Ezek 38:18-20
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that My fury shall come up in My face.
19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at My presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
(KJV)



There are several other Bible references to this singular event of God's ending of this present world time by a great shaking of this earth and His burning fire upon it from His wrath to consume man's works off it. This event of burning is not a simple figure of speech. It will be a literal event.


Per these type references in the Old Testament prophets, this is where Apostle Paul got the idea of the coming change "at the twinkling of an eye" with this event happenning at an instant suddenly upon this earth on the last day.

Various events (like that Gog-Magog event of Ezek.38) are linked to that day per the Old Testament prophets. We were expected to have understood this by the time we get to the many New Testament pointers that directly refer to these events in the Old Testament Books of God's prophets. This is why Apostle Peter admonished us to be 'mindful' of what the OT prophets wrote (2 Pet.3:2).

Many brethren today are trying to understand only what the NT writers covered about these things. That has led many to create a set of doctrines that leave the foundation details of these latter day events first given in the OT prophets. That is the fallacy which NT only study will cause. So how does a believer on Christ Jesus correct this gap in their Bible understanding?

It's simple; go back and do OT study, line upon line, to catch these events of prophecy our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were quoting from and teaching us about. At mininum, one can use a study Bible that shows whenever the NT is quoting an OT passage; a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance will also help in that, or The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge reference, etc.
 

Justin Mangonel

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veteran said:
veteran said:
Many brethren today are trying to understand only what the NT writers covered about these things. That has led many to create a set of doctrines that leave the foundation details of these latter day events first given in the OT prophets. That is the fallacy which NT only study will cause. So how does a believer on Christ Jesus correct this gap in their Bible understanding?

It's simple; go back and do OT study, line upon line, to catch these events of prophecy our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were quoting from and teaching us about. At mininum, one can use a study Bible that shows whenever the NT is quoting an OT passage; a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance will also help in that, or The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge reference, etc.
This is well said and very true,

Blessings,

Justin
 

tgwprophet

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Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
(KJV)


for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy. If that was an actual.yet .. then not even a cockroach would be left standing... and no Armageddon unless this is Armageddon, but it cannot be... for it would mean the same end for chirstians and Jews as would be ythe end for alll others.... so this must be a figurative... and i am sure all life on earth could "feel" it as though it devoured their spirit yet not be physically consumed.


Ezek 38:18-20
19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at My presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Now is this limited to Israel? If so, why does it claim all creeping things on earth and all the men upon the earth? Then it goes on to say all the walls will be cast down, but if that happened how could anything but chaos ensue instead of an assembly of any army? For these reasons and more.. I give these scriptures a wide berth and allow god to show me in his time.

Unless of course, these things have already transpired and is not a latter say prophecy. When I do a line-by-line examination, I can arrive with diverse perspectives, often because I am seeking different perspectives from the start.
 

veteran

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terry said:
Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
(KJV)


for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy. If that was an actual.yet .. then not even a cockroach would be left standing... and no Armageddon unless this is Armageddon, but it cannot be... for it would mean the same end for chirstians and Jews as would be ythe end for alll others.... so this must be a figurative... and i am sure all life on earth could "feel" it as though it devoured their spirit yet not be physically consumed.
All things will not be destroyed... meaning the foundation God has laid.

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
(KJV)



In 2 Peter 3, he was covering the subject of God having brought previous destruction of man's works off this earth. It is in the same context, a destruction of what man has made upon the earth...

2 Pet 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
(KJV)

2 Pet 3:10-11
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(KJV)



terry said:
Ezek 38:18-20
19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at My presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


Now is this limited to Israel? If so, why does it claim all creeping things on earth and all the men upon the earth? Then it goes on to say all the walls will be cast down, but if that happened how could anything but chaos ensue instead of an assembly of any army? For these reasons and more.. I give these scriptures a wide berth and allow god to show me in his time.

Unless of course, these things have already transpired and is not a latter say prophecy. When I do a line-by-line examination, I can arrive with diverse perspectives, often because I am seeking different perspectives from the start.
The Ezekiel 38:18-20 verses are in the same context as that Hebrews 12 and 2 Peter 3 Scripture. God once before shook the earth at His fierce anger like the Heb.12 Scripture states, and He will do it once again to end this present world time, and it will accompany His consuming fire. This is what the "changed" "at the twinkling of an eye" is about that Paul was speaking about. The "elements" Peter spoke of means an 'orderly arrangement' upon the earth, it does not mean material earth matter. God is going wipe man's works off this earth by His consuming fire, and that is what will usher us all... into Christ's thousand years reign on earth. He is not going to literally destroy the whole earth, but burn man's works off it.
 

7angels

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i am confused as to what you are trying to prove. are you trying to prove that in the twinkling of an eye came from the old testament? if so then what is all the other scripture for? are you trying to prove WHEN the twinkling of an eye will happen. i don't understand where you are trying to go with this. i would appreciate some clarification please

thanks
 

veteran

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7angels said:
i am confused as to what you are trying to prove. are you trying to prove that in the twinkling of an eye came from the old testament? if so then what is all the other scripture for? are you trying to prove WHEN the twinkling of an eye will happen. i don't understand where you are trying to go with this. i would appreciate some clarification please

thanks
Yes, that's where Apostle Paul got the original concept, from the OT prophets, and no doubt also from our Lord Jesus directly. God through Isaiah even used a comparison for it like men that are hungry and dream of a feast and suddenly wake up out of the dream famished. This is why Apostle John was also given to show in Revelation the judgment of the Babylon harlot comes in "one hour"...

Rev 18:10
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
(KJV)
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, veteran.

I DO like this thread. I'm sorry that I missed it before. You're right that much of what we read in the B'riyt Chadashah (the NT), particularly in the prophetic book of Revelation, came from the Tanakh (the OT). Perhaps, it would warrant a study into what all IS quoted from the Tanakh in the B'riyt Chadashah!

Sometimes, I think that Bible prophecy study is founded on so few verses that we have "gone to seed on," that we miss much that is emphasized in BOTH "Testaments!" The following seems to be the case: Theologians will read a handful of verses and then begin to make theological arguments for what they believe those verses are about. They form a whole system of eschatology from that handful of verses and then try to fit everything else that they read into that system. If other verses don't seem to support their system, they will "FORCE them into the mold!"

Based on the Protestant, 66-book King James Authorized Version of the Bible, there are only 23,145 verses in the OT and 7,957 verses in the NT. Therefore, although it would be quite extensive and time-consuming and would require a determined, resolute, and persevering attitude to accomplish, a thorough, meticulous comparison between the OT and NT in their original languages is possible! I believe that it is also possible to make a catalog of every verse that was quoted from the Tanakh into the B'riyt Chadashah. The serious Bible student would greatly benefit from such an undertaking as he/she could see what Greek word or words were used to translate a particular Hebrew word and what Hebrew word or words were translated into a particular Greek word. This m-to-n relationship network would be priceless!

I say "verses," but actually we should take this down to the phrase level within verses. Furthermore, there are different kinds of quotations in the B'riyt Chadashah: There are direct quotes that are referenced, direct quotes without reference, and various types of indirect quotes, such as Hebrew idioms that are rendered into Greek that mean little in the Greek but retain their Hebrew "flavor."

You've brought an interesting comparision to light that I will study; however, concerning 1 Corinthians 15:51, one must also not forget that it naturally flows into verse 52:

51 Idou musteerion humin legoo: Pantes ou koimeetheesometha, pantes de allageesometha,
52 en atomoo, en ripee ofthalmou, en tee eschatee salpiggi: salpisei gar kai hoi nekroi egertheesontai afthartoi kai heemeis allageesometha.

51 Look, a mystery/secret to-you I-say: All not we-shall-sleep, all but we-shall-be-changed,
52 in a-moment, in a-jerk of-an-eye, in the last trumpeting: a-trumpet-shall-sound for and the dead they-shall-be-raised unable-to-decay and we we-shall-be-changed.

The word "heemeis" ("we") to the word "allageesometha" ("we-shall-be-changed") is added for emphasis! The thing one must remember in Scripture is that not always does the word "all" mean "everybody everywhere!" Sometimes, it simply refers to "all of a particular group!" Context is important in such cases. These verses do NOT refer to all of the dead everywhere! He was emphasizing that he was talking about "all" of "US" (in the context of the book), both Paul - the writer - and the readers - the believers at Korinth.

Be careful not to read too much into a single word like "all!"
 

revturmoil

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Be careful not to read too much into a single word like "all!"
Is that why there's over 130 different words for all and the word is used six to seven ways?
It's called rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

I believe in the inspired Word of God and I'm sure you do. The word inspired means God breathed or God spoke. When God spoke to His servants the prophets, He spoke to them in the language they also spoke, understood, and wrote. So one of the most important parts of my hermeneutic is to research the definition of the words in the text in the language they were written in. AND see how those same words are used elsewhere...and accept the definition of those words and their use regardless if it goes against what I already believe.
You have a flimsy hermeneutic. And I know you'll remain defyant claiming that you right.
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, kaoticprofit.

kaoticprofit said:
Is that why there's over 130 different words for all and the word is used six to seven ways?
It's called rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

I believe in the inspired Word of God and I'm sure you do. The word inspired means God breathed or God spoke. When God spoke to His servants the prophets, He spoke to them in the language they also spoke, understood, and wrote. So one of the most important parts of my hermeneutic is to research the definition of the words in the text in the language they were written in. AND see how those same words are used elsewhere...and accept the definition of those words and their use regardless if it goes against what I already believe.
You have a flimsy hermeneutic. And I know you'll remain defyant claiming that you right.
Ha! Ha! Actually "inspire" comes from the Latin "in-" + "spirare," meaning "to breathe in," just as "expire" comes from the Latin "ex-" + spirare," meaning "to breathe out." We just shorten "inspired by God" to "inspired."

Of course, YOUR hermeneutic is flawless, right? And, I was writing to veteran; so, how did YOU take offense?! Besides, what I said to veteran is correct and accurate, regardless how you react to it. One CANNOT allow oneself to think that everything he needs to find is wrapped up in the definition of any one word, especially in a simple word like "all!" There are just too many ways that the word may be used, and one's expectations for that word may be misplaced! CONTEXT is ALWAYS the key!
 

Trekson

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I agree with both your posts, Retro. The same can be said for other words like, last and day.
 

revturmoil

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Ha! Ha! Actually "inspire" comes from the Latin "in-" + "spirare," meaning "to breathe in," just as "expire" comes from the Latin "ex-" + spirare," meaning "to breathe out." We just shorten "inspired by God" to "inspired."
Of course, YOUR hermeneutic is flawless, right? And, I was writing to veteran; so, how did YOU take offense?! Besides, what I said to veteran is correct and accurate, regardless how you react to it. One CANNOT allow oneself to think that everything he needs to find is wrapped up in the definition of any one word, especially in a simple word like "all!" There are just too many ways that the word may be used, and one's expectations for that word may be misplaced! CONTEXT is ALWAYS the key!

Context is important but the original text is how I determine the true context.

All 3956 scripture 1124 [is] given by inspiration of God 2315, and 2532 [is] profitable 5624 for 4314 doctrine 1319, for 4314 reproof 1650, for 4314 correction 1882, for 4314 instruction 3809 in 1722 righteousness 1343:

"GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD" MEANS...

inspired by God
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2315&t=KJV
WHICH COMES FROM THE ROOT WORD...

to breathe
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4154&t=KJV

Which amounts to "God Breathed"

The word all is where so many go wrong in their interpretation. There won't be a global dictator. The beast has ten horns and is a ten nation empire. That's easy to figure out but every body is so indoctrinated. It's easier to take a sliver out of a cats behind than change peoples minds around here.

These are ALL the words for ALL in the NT.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=all
And here the OT.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=all

The people who don't like the original text are those whose beliefs are debunked by it.
When studying anything, not only prophecy, you can't disregard the meaning of key words like all, holy place, earth, world, last, inferior, mixed, are, if, before, and so on.....or you'll surely be misled. I know what method I use to see the truth and I think it's the right thing to do.

Lets go over it again.
Revelation 13 is a good chapter to explain a few different ways the word all is used and it debunks globalism. It is said about the first beast...

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 ??And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word all used in Rev. 13:7-8 is 'pas.'

"Pas" means the whole of one object and that object is the beast. And it means "the totality of the persons or things referred to." So the verse isn't implying the entire planet. IT means all kindreds, and tongues, and nations that are his or under his authority and control. All kindreds, and tongues, and nations... within his kingdom. Not the entire word. that's why the word 'individually' is used.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV

This is the word 'pas'.
1.
individually
a)
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2)
collectively
a)
some of all types

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Here the word all is 'holos' and it does indicate the entire world.

The entire world will wonder after the beast because he once was, and is not, and yet lives!
This is the word 'holos'.

http://www.bluelette...50&t=KJVAnother

Had this word 'holos' been used in verses 7 and 8 it would mean the entire world. But it's not!

There are dozens of examples where the word 'pas.' (all)-individually doesn't mean the entirety of the whole.

Want examples?
 

veteran

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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, veteran.

I DO like this thread. I'm sorry that I missed it before. You're right that much of what we read in the B'riyt Chadashah (the NT), particularly in the prophetic book of Revelation, came from the Tanakh (the OT). Perhaps, it would warrant a study into what all IS quoted from the Tanakh in the B'riyt Chadashah!

Sometimes, I think that Bible prophecy study is founded on so few verses that we have "gone to seed on," that we miss much that is emphasized in BOTH "Testaments!" The following seems to be the case: Theologians will read a handful of verses and then begin to make theological arguments for what they believe those verses are about. They form a whole system of eschatology from that handful of verses and then try to fit everything else that they read into that system. If other verses don't seem to support their system, they will "FORCE them into the mold!"

Based on the Protestant, 66-book King James Authorized Version of the Bible, there are only 23,145 verses in the OT and 7,957 verses in the NT. Therefore, although it would be quite extensive and time-consuming and would require a determined, resolute, and persevering attitude to accomplish, a thorough, meticulous comparison between the OT and NT in their original languages is possible! I believe that it is also possible to make a catalog of every verse that was quoted from the Tanakh into the B'riyt Chadashah. The serious Bible student would greatly benefit from such an undertaking as he/she could see what Greek word or words were used to translate a particular Hebrew word and what Hebrew word or words were translated into a particular Greek word. This m-to-n relationship network would be priceless!

I say "verses," but actually we should take this down to the phrase level within verses. Furthermore, there are different kinds of quotations in the B'riyt Chadashah: There are direct quotes that are referenced, direct quotes without reference, and various types of indirect quotes, such as Hebrew idioms that are rendered into Greek that mean little in the Greek but retain their Hebrew "flavor."

You've brought an interesting comparision to light that I will study; however, concerning 1 Corinthians 15:51, one must also not forget that it naturally flows into verse 52:

51 Idou musteerion humin legoo: Pantes ou koimeetheesometha, pantes de allageesometha,
52 en atomoo, en ripee ofthalmou, en tee eschatee salpiggi: salpisei gar kai hoi nekroi egertheesontai afthartoi kai heemeis allageesometha.

51 Look, a mystery/secret to-you I-say: All not we-shall-sleep, all but we-shall-be-changed,
52 in a-moment, in a-jerk of-an-eye, in the last trumpeting: a-trumpet-shall-sound for and the dead they-shall-be-raised unable-to-decay and we we-shall-be-changed.

The word "heemeis" ("we") to the word "allageesometha" ("we-shall-be-changed") is added for emphasis! The thing one must remember in Scripture is that not always does the word "all" mean "everybody everywhere!" Sometimes, it simply refers to "all of a particular group!" Context is important in such cases. These verses do NOT refer to all of the dead everywhere! He was emphasizing that he was talking about "all" of "US" (in the context of the book), both Paul - the writer - and the readers - the believers at Korinth.

Be careful not to read too much into a single word like "all!"

In your attempt to be so precise, you've missed the forest for the trees. At 1 Cor.15:44-50, Apostle Paul is covering ALL peoples, not just some people. And likewise that's how the Isaiah 25 Scripture reads also.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, kaoticprofit.


kaoticprofit said:
Context is important but the original text is how I determine the true context.

All 3956 scripture 1124 [is] given by inspiration of God 2315, and 2532 [is] profitable 5624 for 4314 doctrine 1319, for 4314 reproof 1650, for 4314 correction 1882, for 4314 instruction 3809 in 1722 righteousness 1343:

"GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD" MEANS...

inspired by God
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2315&t=KJV
WHICH COMES FROM THE ROOT WORD...

to breathe
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4154&t=KJV

Which amounts to "God Breathed"

The word all is where so many go wrong in their interpretation. There won't be a global dictator. The beast has ten horns and is a ten nation empire. That's easy to figure out but every body is so indoctrinated. It's easier to take a sliver out of a cats behind than change peoples minds around here.

These are ALL the words for ALL in the NT.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=all
And here the OT.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=all

The people who don't like the original text are those whose beliefs are debunked by it.
When studying anything, not only prophecy, you can't disregard the meaning of key words like all, holy place, earth, world, last, inferior, mixed, are, if, before, and so on.....or you'll surely be misled. I know what method I use to see the truth and I think it's the right thing to do.

Lets go over it again.
Revelation 13 is a good chapter to explain a few different ways the word all is used and it debunks globalism. It is said about the first beast...

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 ??And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word all used in Rev. 13:7-8 is 'pas.'

"Pas" means the whole of one object and that object is the beast. And it means "the totality of the persons or things referred to." So the verse isn't implying the entire planet. IT means all kindreds, and tongues, and nations that are his or under his authority and control. All kindreds, and tongues, and nations... within his kingdom. Not the entire word. that's why the word 'individually' is used.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV

This is the word 'pas'.
1.
individually
a)
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2)
collectively
a)
some of all types

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Here the word all is 'holos' and it does indicate the entire world.

The entire world will wonder after the beast because he once was, and is not, and yet lives!
This is the word 'holos'.

http://www.bluelette...50&t=KJVAnother

Had this word 'holos' been used in verses 7 and 8 it would mean the entire world. But it's not!

There are dozens of examples where the word 'pas.' (all)-individually doesn't mean the entirety of the whole.

Want examples?
LOL! I would agree that the "original text" is the "true text," BUT we don't HAVE the "original text!" All we have are COPIES of the "original manuscripts!" Some of those are quite old, but we don't have the "original manuscript" of ANY of the books of the Bible! NOT ONE!

Actually, the word used in Revelation 13:7 is "pasan" and in 13:8 it is "pantes," which both COME from "pas," but that's okay. I see you're trying. "Pas" and it's various forms CAN mean "all" or "every" when the context allows it; however, one is in error to think that it means "globally all."

On the other hand, "holee," coming from "holos," does indeed mean "the whole," but then one must check the rest of the verse for its immediate context. Fortunately, the words that follow are "hee gee," which literally means "the earth" (not "the world," btw); so, it DOES give the indication that we are talking about "[the inhabitants of] the whole earth admiring the beast."

We use these Greek words, by the way, in some of our new words, such as "pantograph," "an instrument for the mechanical copying of maps or diagrams on any desired scale," and "hologram," "a three-dimensional image of an object produced by recording on a photographic plate or film the patterns of interference formed by a split laser beam and then illuminating the pattern with usual coherent light." They are also used for several different logos and product names, like "PanAmerican Airlines" and "Holo Launcher." They are also used in the formation of medical terms, such as "pandemic" and "holoenzyme."

As I said, just be careful!
 

veteran

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So now God is not able to get His Word out to His people because we don't have possession of the original Bible texts???

What ignorance!
 

veteran

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kaoticprofit said:
I don't know why I even hang around here to deal with you veteran. Get it right or shut up!
I don't know why you stick around either, all you do is add multutudes of confusion to the mix, especially with the 'all' doesn't mean all tirades.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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veteran said:
In your attempt to be so precise, you've missed the forest for the trees. At 1 Cor.15:44-50, Apostle Paul is covering ALL peoples, not just some people. And likewise that's how the Isaiah 25 Scripture reads also.
I have always understood that "ALL" in 1 cor 15 was referring to "All
the Christians" ........ because that is what the whole topic was
about ...... some christian believers in the early church had passed
away and everybody thought that they had missed out on the coming of the
Lord.

The author of Corinthians then explained that the dead would not miss
out on anything ...... because they would be raised first ..... then
those still alive would be changed and ALL would meet the Lord in the
air.

It cannot be talking about the unsaved ..... they would not be going to meet Jesus .
 

John_8:32

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In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul gave this about the change of those on earth at the "last trump"...

1 Cor 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(KJV)


For that "Death is swallowed up in victory", Paul was pulling from the Isaiah 25 Scripture. Isaiah 25 includes all peoples and nations alive on earth being included in that...

Isa 25:7-8
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
(KJV)


Only with that latter statement of "...and the rebuke of His people shall He take away..." is about God's people specifically. This is why Paul said in those 1 Cor.15 verses that "we shall all be changed" at that event. That includes those of the nations too.

Where else in the Old Testament prophets was Paul pulling this from, with it happening "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye"?


Isa 24:1-23
1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.


This word "empty" is Hebrew baqaq and it means to 'pour out', like you'd turn a bottle upside down to empty its contents and it makes a bagloop, bagloop type of sound. That's the kind of expression our Heavenly Father used here for the destruction on the last day of this world.

In the 3rd verse, the idea "utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled" is Hebrew baqaq again along with the idea of spoiled or plundered ('baqaq-baqaq-bazaz-bazaa' = poured out, poured out, spoiled, spoiled'). That event is emphazied.


Isa.24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
(KJV)


Because man has broken God's everlasting covenant the earth has become in a desolate state for the end, and the final answer is God's consuming fire as per these events which Apostle Peter also hinted at in 2 Peter 3:10 with man's works to be burned off it on the "day of the Lord".


Isa.24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)


Just so one knows the timing of this is for the very end of this world, those Scriptures above point directly to it, and then Christ's future reign with His elect from Jerusalem.


Here is another OT reference to that coming event...

Isa 29:5-8
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
(KJV)


Per Zephaniah 3, God said it was His determination to gather the nations so as to pour out His indignation upon them. That is about His cup of wrath poured out upon the earth on the last day of this world. So this event is linked with the time of God's cup of wrath being poured out upon the earth.

Zeph 3:8
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.
(KJV)



This event of God's shaking the earth, figuratively turning it upside down, burning its surface with fire, at an instant suddenly on the last day of this world, is also what the destruction of the Gog-Magog armies out of the northern quarters is about...

Ezek 38:18-20
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that My fury shall come up in My face.
19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at My presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
(KJV)



There are several other Bible references to this singular event of God's ending of this present world time by a great shaking of this earth and His burning fire upon it from His wrath to consume man's works off it. This event of burning is not a simple figure of speech. It will be a literal event.


Per these type references in the Old Testament prophets, this is where Apostle Paul got the idea of the coming change "at the twinkling of an eye" with this event happenning at an instant suddenly upon this earth on the last day.

Various events (like that Gog-Magog event of Ezek.38) are linked to that day per the Old Testament prophets. We were expected to have understood this by the time we get to the many New Testament pointers that directly refer to these events in the Old Testament Books of God's prophets. This is why Apostle Peter admonished us to be 'mindful' of what the OT prophets wrote (2 Pet.3:2).

Many brethren today are trying to understand only what the NT writers covered about these things. That has led many to create a set of doctrines that leave the foundation details of these latter day events first given in the OT prophets. That is the fallacy which NT only study will cause. So how does a believer on Christ Jesus correct this gap in their Bible understanding?

It's simple; go back and do OT study, line upon line, to catch these events of prophecy our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were quoting from and teaching us about. At mininum, one can use a study Bible that shows whenever the NT is quoting an OT passage; a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance will also help in that, or The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge reference, etc.
Just to throw in a couple of pennies...

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Ties in with...

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

and

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Which occurs at the time you are pointing to.

Paul got his information from the scriptures. The only scriptures he had at the time was the O.T. You are very correct here Vet.