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Joyful

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Jan 7, 2007
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Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.Jeremiah 21:4 - Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Behold, I will turn back the weapons of war that are in your hands, wherewith ye fight against the king of Babylon, and against the Chaldeans, which besiege you without the walls, and I will assemble them into the midst of this city.
Your interpretation is absolutely out of context, jag. Why are you so pro military???? Anyone in your family in the military? Is that why you are so defensive about the military? I believe America is the only country where most Christians support and join the military. America is the most unholy Christians in the world IMHO.The military is the biggest business in the world and this is the bottom line of popularity of the military. They don't want to go against the nation. It is all about the greed.
 

Wakka

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Joyful. Use your mind. There is nothing wrong with having a military for defensive purposes!
 

Joyful

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(Wakka;18064)
Joyful. Use your mind. There is nothing wrong with having a military for defensive purposes!
Wakka,Just think what Jesus is saying; "love your enemy". Do you think you can love your enemy by killing them????? Look what USA and the west are doing in middle east; their military is out there to kill and attack their enemy!!!
 

E Nomine

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Don't get me wrong. I love my enemies. Without them I would be out of a job. Without them I wouldn't love to see them fall and die at my feet with the satisfaction.I respect my enemies very much. Like me, they to know the dangers of our jobs. We both have families that we love and care about, would die for our countries, and wouldn't hesitate to kill one another. I am not a soldier, Joyfull, I am an Infantryman and I drink the blood of my enemies. I gladly kill so you can keep your misguided opinions. Just support me in my job that you dislike because you know you wouldn't do it.And you know that, without me, every single non-Muslim in America would be either dead of a convert to Islam because I wasn't there to kill them before hand.You're welcome.
 

Joyful

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(E Nomine;18075)
Don't get me wrong. I love my enemies. Without them I would be out of a job. Without them I wouldn't love to see them fall and die at my feet with the satisfaction.
:eek:
I respect my enemies very much.
Respect is not love. Respect is a worldly idea: love is a biblical one. It's strange how you can interchange the two so easily.You can respect someone you are killing; You cannot love someone you are trying to kill.
Like me, they to know the dangers of our jobs. We both have families that we love and care about, would die for our countries, and wouldn't hesitate to kill one another. I am not a soldier, Joyfull, I am an Infantryman and I drink the blood of my enemies. I gladly kill so you can keep your misguided opinions. Just support me in my job that you dislike because you know you wouldn't do it.
Please, let's not play Christians. Do you know that many, many of Jesus' followers have been killed, imprisoned and tortured because they are Christians? They dont even get paid like you guys. You get all sorts of financial benefits, are well-fed, well-paid, highly honored, and all kinds of compensations. I know this because my husband is retired militry.
And you know that, without me, every single non-Muslim in America would be either dead of a convert to Islam because I wasn't there to kill them before hand.
No one can know that. I trust God that I can handle any predicaments without asking military's help. Christians who are in the military are insulting Jesus by not trusing YHWH and Jesus to take care of them when they obey Him. You are relying on secular might and not God's power. How sad.
 

E Nomine

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(Joyful;18077)
Respect is not love. Respect is a worldly idea: love is a biblical one. It's strange how you can interchange the two so easily.
It is strange how how people believe that respect and love to not go hand in hand(Joyful;18077)
You can respect someone you are killing; You cannot love someone you are trying to kill.
I respect and love them for your undenied sacrifice to their country and ideals.(Joyful;18077)
Please, let's not play Christians. Do you know that many, many of Jesus' followers have been killed, imprisoned and tortured because they are Christians? They dont even get paid like you guys. You get all sorts of financial benefits, are well-fed, well-paid, highly honored, and all kinds of compensations. I know this because my husband is retired militry.
Men and women in uniform are not fed well. At least I am not. I am given old and cold meals and undrinkable coffee. I am not highly honored. People who claim to be christians daily protest the war at my brothers' and sisters' funerals. There is no compensation enough for the loss of a limb, sanity, a life, or a soul.I must ask you why do I have the impression that I find you unsupportive?(Joyful;18077)
]No one can know that. I trust God that I can handle any predicaments without asking military's help. Christians who are in the military are insulting Jesus by not trusing YHWH and Jesus to take care of them when they obey Him. You are relying on secular might and not God's power. How sad.
Then I shall pray to God that in the event of an invasion upon your soil you are given that chance to prove your faith to Him.
 

Joyful

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(E Nomine;18080)
It is strange how how people believe that respect and love to not go hand in hand
Jesus never meant to say you can kill someone you love! get real, my friend.
I respect and love them for your undenied sacrifice to their country and ideals.
You are not sacrificing much when you are fully compensated. do you even know that Jesus warriors are getting killed? They don't even get paid. Your mentality is so worldly and spoiled.
Men and women in uniform are not fed well. At least I am not. I am given old and cold meals and undrinkable coffee. I am not highly honored. People who claim to be christians daily protest the war at my brothers' and sisters' funerals. There is no compensation enough for the loss of a limb, sanity, a life, or a soul.
You see? You are feeling sorry for yourself and want everyone's sympathy for what you are doing. That's not what Jesus followers do; they are happy following and spreading Jesus in persecuted countries.
I must ask you why do I have the impression that I find you unsupportive?
No, I am not supportive for military. I take seriously what Jesus says; He says to love our enemy.
Then I shall pray to God that in the event of an invasion upon your soil you are given that chance to prove your faith to Him.
I am ready for any situation God is allowing me to have. If God is with me no one is against me.thank you YHWH and Jesus for your peaceful and loving teachings.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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John 15:12-14 - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Joyful

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(thesuperjag;18089)
John 15:12-14 - This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
what does this have to do with "love your enemy"? we are talking about military killing their enemy. You do realize they are trained to kill and not to be killed, don't you?
 

E Nomine

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(Joyful;18087)
No, I am not supportive for military. I take seriously what Jesus says; He says to love our enemy.
As much as it pains me so I am not at all suprised. I wonder how your husband feels? Does he understand your differences or does he believe the same as you now?
 

faith

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(thesuperjag;18089)
John 15:12-14 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
truly, your words are filled with leaven..that is not what this scripture reveals, thesuperjag ~ thus far, everything you have referred to help justify your belief that murder is necessary up to this point is untruth...to lay down one's life for their friends does in no way mean to murder for them.. it is well known that truth is the hardest to face when bound to traditions of the elders...protip ~ murder = murder = murder, whether you think it noble or not, it doesn't wash you clean just because you cling to one or two passages from the old testament - which you should know that Jesus Christ fulfilled God's word & established a new covenant, a complete example of love & peace for all to follow ~ love without violence of any sort.. read the scriptures of the gospels, for if you are in Christ as you claim to be, then you would hear his message & not challenge it by casting statements like "losing common sense" :bible:thou shalt do no murder ~ it cannot be any clearer than that, murder breaks this commandment & so does participating in a military that revels in death & profiting financially at the expense of murdered innocents...& don't sit there & boast how we only kill terrorists, for it is well known that innocent women & children have fallen to the arsenal of missles launched - tell me, what does our Lord say about the harming of little children? what reward do you think you'll have at the last day if any of you have this marked into you books of life?again, not from me but from the teaching of our Lord ~ do violence to no man, think about it ~ for i tell you the truth, to justify the need to murder is no different from not renouncing the knowledge of good & evil, which God forbids us to partake ever since the days of Eden.. :study:
 

For Life

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Feb 24, 2007
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tell me, what does our Lord say about the harming of little children? what reward do you think you'll have at the last day if any of you have this marked into you books of life?
Have you read the Old Testament? Are you basing all your opinion on the New Testament? The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. I think you need to read both to get the full picture.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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I don't expect you to understand even Joyful. Let me ask you a question(s).Do you think self-defense is a sin? If a person saw his/her family and they were getting rape or murdered, would he/she kill the person to save lives, or would he/she just stand there and do nothing and let evil do it and be guilty of that same sin? ("Love thine enemies" as you guys put that part out)Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Joyful

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(For Life;18102)
Have you read the Old Testament? Are you basing all your opinion on the New Testament? The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. I think you need to read both to get the full picture.
You did not address me specificly but I will respond because this question is so immature; we are living in spreading Jesus time, Old Testament time is over. (Even OT times, God ordered directly to kill evil nations and people). Stop using the Scripture to justify your own desires. The Scriptures are supposed to be used for good deeds and godly causes. God and Jesus are the only judges and noone has right to kill anyone just because you are judging your enemy should be killed. We human are too evil to judge and kill anyone, period. The time will come when Jesus judges whole world. It is not now.love, hitomi
 

Joyful

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(E Nomine;18091)
As much as it pains me so I am not at all suprised. I wonder how your husband feels? Does he understand your differences or does he believe the same as you now?
He has been claiming to be believer all his life and attending the church, married non believer (me), has a porn hobby and other ungodly hobbies. So you figure out if it's worth listening what he has to say about the military.I have been Christian only for 8 years and found out what is going on in the churches and their hypocrisy of their faith in over all; I have searched and attended many denominations and churches for solid 5 years. It is really shame and sad. How ungrateful and disgraceful as Jesus' followers.The trinitarian churches are being stumbling block for new and young Christians and non-believers who are seeking the truth.BTW, he left his family after I became christian and the rest of the family is following Jesus; he believes he does not have to follow Jesus' teachings to be saved. He is Lutheran but I assure you that my husband is not the unique case. There is many, many hypocrisies going on in the churches. Following Jesus is not trinitaian's main goal, it is popularity and keep and gain more members. The military is major politically correct issue in this country.love, hitomi
 

Joyful

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(thesuperjag;18104)
I don't expect you to understand even Joyful. Let me ask you a question(s).Do you think self-defense is a sin? If a person saw his/her family and they were getting rape or murdered, would he/she kill the person to save lives, or would he/she just stand there and do nothing and let evil do it and be guilty of that same sin? ("Love thine enemies" as yous put that part out)Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
I have responed this question many times but I am happy to do it again. I will trust God to give me wisdom how to defend myself and help victims. I don't have to kill to defend victims. Where is your faith, jag? Our faith is powerful in predicaments. If you don't know this basic as God's people you should reexamine your faith, jag.BTW, you have asked many similar questions to me; are you really reading my responses?love, hitomi
 

faith

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(thesuperjag;18104)
I don't expect you to understand even Joyful. Let me ask you a question(s).Do you think self-defense is a sin? If a person saw his/her family and they were getting rape or murdered, would he/she kill the person to save lives, or would he/she just stand there and do nothing and let evil do it and be guilty of that same sin? ("Love thine enemies" as you guys put that part out)
forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness...in the new convenant with Jesus Christ, through him is a flowing river of living water...consider, the eye for an eye mentality is no longer valid, nor is the old testament covenant.. Joyful speaks truly when she mentioned this earlier, note the following..John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.for our Father has placed all authority, power & dominion to his begotten Son & only through the Son will the Father acknowledge...i tell you the truth, our Father will not hear anyone who does not believe on the Son, nor will our Father love those that do not love the Son & keep the Son's commandments.. this is the new covenant, from the moment Jesus ascended to heaven until the time of his return - anyone that enters into the sheepfold another way will not be acknowledged by the sheep, the sheep will only acknowledge the rightful shephard that enters through the door.. again, straight is the way & narrow is the gate that leads to salvation...it is not for you to decide who should or shouldn't die, none of us have that authority except our Father in heaven - you should know that..again, note the following - from Galatians 5, it cannot be any clearer than this..19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.& for those that stubbornly cling to the old testament, dismissing all that is said in this post, then hearken to this passage - spoken by God directly..Exodus 23:2 clearly states - 2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil.the military has commited evil that trangresses Jesus Christ's commandment, whether one believes on him or not, the result is the same - there is no longer a cloak for these sins & should any refuse & dismiss these words are mere opinion, then forever know until the end that there is only one decree that will be outside of heaven, where there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth.. now, you asked me what i would do in that situation & now you have my answer, forgiveness is absolute, for judgement is not mine to give nor decide - take it or leave it, i've done all i can to shew unto you a basic truth..
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
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(faith)
(thesuperjag)
I don't expect you to understand even Joyful. Let me ask you a question(s).Do you think self-defense is a sin? If a person saw his/her family and they were getting rape or murdered, would he/she kill the person to save lives, or would he/she just stand there and do nothing and let evil do it and be guilty of that same sin? ("Love thine enemies" as you guys put that part out)
forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness...in the new convenant with Jesus Christ, through him is a flowing river of living water...consider, the eye for an eye mentality is no longer valid, nor is the old testament covenant.. Joyful speaks truly when she mentioned this earlier, note the following..John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.for our Father has placed all authority, power & dominion to his begotten Son & only through the Son will the Father acknowledge...i tell you the truth, our Father will not hear anyone who does not believe on the Son, nor will our Father love those that do not love the Son & keep the Son's commandments.. this is the new covenant, from the moment Jesus ascended to heaven until the time of his return - anyone that enters into the sheepfold another way will not be acknowledged by the sheep, the sheep will only acknowledge the rightful shephard that enters through the door.. again, straight is the way & narrow is the gate that leads to salvation...it is not for you to decide who should or shouldn't die, none of us have that authority except our Father in heaven - you should know that..again, note the following - from Galatians 5, it cannot be any clearer than this..19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.& for those that stubbornly cling to the old testament, dismissing all that is said in this post, then hearken to this passage - spoken by God directly..Exodus 23:2 clearly states - 2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil.the military has commited evil that trangresses Jesus Christ's commandment, whether one believes on him or not, the result is the same - there is no longer a cloak for these sins & should any refuse & dismiss these words are mere opinion, then forever know until the end that there is only one decree that will be outside of heaven, where there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth.. now, you asked me what i would do in that situation & now you have my answer, forgiveness is absolute, for judgement is not mine to give nor decide - take it or leave it, i've done all i can to shew unto you a basic truth..I agree with you the old covenant is no longer valid. But that doesn't mean the laws of the old testament passed away, especially Yahshua said it and you ignore it. And let me ask you a question. How can one forgive if they never ask for forgiveness, but wants to continually do evil against the person and/or the family and never repent to Him. True repentance comes from the heart, not lip servicing. The Old and the New compliment each other.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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Jesus said to carry a sword for self defense and only use it if there's no other option! What do you say about that!Note: We don't have to kill the raper/murderer. We can just wound them too
wink.gif
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Joyful

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Jan 7, 2007
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(Wakka;18192)
Jesus said to carry a sword for self defense and only use it if there's no other option! What do you say about that!Note: We don't have to kill the raper/murderer. We can just wound them too
wink.gif
.
Wakka,Show me the verses please.thank you, hitomi
 
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