Where's REAL Bible Teaching Gone?

Hi Veteran,

I am with you, especially about reading and explaining. But the only way one can apply real understanding (I believe) is by study, not by what other people say. Hermenuetics must be taught again in the church or it will continue its fall.

Here is a free book on hermenuetics that can be downloaded as pdf file.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1883_terry_biblical-hermeneutics.html

I have to second that observation veteran we and I myself may differ in the understanding of the deeper meaning found in Gods word.
But fundamentals are uncompromisable. Men would have been left to the devices of men long before Christ was born had it not been for the written word.

The bible as we know it is the only way we can personally circumvent mens influence over Gods original word. I firmly believe this "the bible" is preserved by God. The scribes went to great pains in the OT to preserve every line and dot. To me apart from the HS and measuring what the visible tangible world has to offer I know of no other piece of substance that could be considered of equal or greater value than the bible. Not only were the Hebrew scribes diligent in the preservation but history also proves that the NT far surpasses any ancient documentation in both number and accuracy, In that worldly fact alone we are, or should be lead to take the bible into serious consideration.

I has serious reservations with any that seek to minimize its importance or sovereignty I know of no teacher or prophet from times of old or new that hasn't stood firmly stood on the word of God as we know it "the Bible" The Spirit that graced these men testifys to its validity.

that is a good question veteran. the answer is that man's traditions got in the way. using man's understanding instead of God's is what led to so much misunderstanding. the word teaches that we should have signs, miracles, and wonders confirming the word of God. in other words without the supernatural christianity is no different then any other religion. Jesus was born supernaturally, ended his ministry supernaturally and everything about Jesus even his ministry was supernatural. so unless we can prove that Jesus is still alive today then there is no reason to really believe in christianity. what is sad is that the ones who disagree with my latter sentence are the same ones that don't believe that the supernatural in for today or that each individual believer can do the supernatural. well let me just say if we don't understand this concept then we are going to miss the next move of God that is coming.

God bless

7angels said:

that is a good question veteran. the answer is that man's traditions got in the way. using man's understanding instead of God's is what led to so much misunderstanding. the word teaches that we should have signs, miracles, and wonders confirming the word of God. in other words without the supernatural christianity is no different then any other religion. Jesus was born supernaturally, ended his ministry supernaturally and everything about Jesus even his ministry was supernatural. so unless we can prove that Jesus is still alive today then there is no reason to really believe in christianity. what is sad is that the ones who disagree with my latter sentence are the same ones that don't believe that the supernatural in for today or that each individual believer can do the supernatural. well let me just say if we don't understand this concept then we are going to miss the next move of God that is coming.

God bless

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I disagree simply because your view ignores the full context of teaching.
Consider these verses as well, you simply can't take verses and teach a particular perspective as the complete true and ignore the others.

1 Peter 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

Matt. 12:38-39
Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, "Master, we would see a sign from thee." But He answered and said unto them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. But there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."

Matt. 24:23-25
If any man shall say to you, "Lo, here is Christ," or, "There!," believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

John 20:29
Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

For what reasons does God generally perform miracles in our midst?
A. Miracles serve as a confirmation of a person's ministry or message.
1. The minister (person), that he is sent by God.
Exodus 4:3-9, 30:7:10, 12
Numbers 16:28-35
I Samuel 12:17, 18
I Kings 17:24
Mark 9:39; 16:17-18
John 3:2:6:14, 36; 11:42
Acts 2:22
2 Corinthians 12:12

They serve as a conformation of the message, that being said how shall we then discern the false prophets preforming signs and miracles?
We can not automatically presume the foundation is sure, we must look at what is being taught. The signs are not evidence of validity.
Again I'm weary of those that teach signs and wonders as evidence of truth. Jesus said to Tomas "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed".

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. But there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."

Is this generation seeking after signs and wonders? Are their some among us that seek signs and wonders?
Its unstable ground and needs to looked at closely. That's not my opinion that's what the words says.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 " The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders"

Where not supposed to be teaching the "bible", we are supposed to be teaching the Gospel of Jesus.

In all His Love

mjrhealth said:

Where not supposed to be teaching the "bible", we are supposed to be teaching the Gospel of Jesus.

In all His Love

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And just where have you discovered and learned of this gospel of Jesus?

Christians can only find that which they first seek.
This is in keeping with, ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you", (Matthew 7:7).
Most are unwittingly content to satisf their spiritual needs by every sort of distraction. Seldom drinking from the springs of Living Water nor eating from the Tree of Life.
The issue is not one of frail teachers but one of feeble Christians.
Yuh git what yuh ask for, sortta' thing.
If you desire your pastor to be entertainer-in-chief, wish to hear things which tickle the ear or are needful for your church to be a social network, all these can be easily found.
We Christians have the sure confidence of, "Ask and it will be given to you!" ... "Seek and you will find!" ... "Knock and the door will be opened!".
So, if resourceful and rewarding Bible teachings are elusive ... if we find ourselves unable to drink and eat nourishment for our spiritual lives ... it can only mean that we are failing to properly ask, seek and knock.
Our local churches have the frail pastors they were seeking ... the inadequate teachers who knocked on the door were allowed entrance ... and the doors to a genuine Christian experience remain tightly closed.
It's so typical to blame the church leaders an' whatever to conceal the truth that they remain at their positions because we consent ... we permit them. We validate their frail and errant activities by failing to seek greater expectations.
ADDED BELOW
It's me returning with another thought:
Have any of you had the miserable experience of witnessing a competition for the position of Pastor? Well, I have ... several occasions. A vacancy occurs in the church and a posting is distributed throughout the denomination asking for competition for the open position. The competition can involve several visits by several applicants over several weeks. What usually occurs is that the most viable orator and sharply dressed are selected by the Church Board. A most important quality is the ability to raise funds and organize activities.
So it is that churches end up with strong human spirits becoming the leaders of the church rather than the those who are strong in the Holy Spirit.
But haven't you noticed?
When things are not going as well for us, who in the church do we first seek out? Isn't it the gentleman wearing dated clothing and confidently sitting quiet ... or the little spectacled grandmother who has a tattered Bible clutched in her wrinkled hands?
So, why is it that we choose the very opposite to be our leaders?
I know an elderly Christian man who has great spiritual wisdom. Unfortunately, he speaks with a difficult accent from his former country of origin. Plus, his hair is always so unkept and he wears neck-ties that belong to the 1950's. So many have hurriedly dismissed him as being inconsequential. But, believe me!, when this man begins to speak from his heart, it's as if the very heavens are opened. Such incredible learning and insights he has.
Unfortunately, he would hardly be chosen to pastor a church simply because of his exterior appearance. But he isn't poverty stricken ... he anonymously gives money to the poor and has no concern about the expensive things.
We have to urgently learn that God does not look on the outward ... but at the inward treasure and qualities.

Not only is there a lack of solid biblical teaching and preaching there is a lack of solid biblical living. Many Christians use Christianity as a name sake or safe keep and think of God as someone to manipulate and serve themselves. Yet God was not created by us or created in our image, no no, He created us in His image thus He makes the demands. Many want to make Jesus their savior and that is all and do not want to submit to Him and their Lord and Master. God has revealed to us through His Holy Writ the foundations of His word 1. He is God of all, 2. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and Savior of all mankind and Lord of all 3. Jesus was born of a virgin, lived sinless, was fully human & fully divine, was seen by angels, crucified at calvary for the remission of sins, resurrected by the Holy Spirit and ascended to Heaven 4. Holy Spirit is a He not an it and that He is given as the guider, comforter and empowerer of the Church 5. As believers we are called to preach, teach and live the gospel 6. Live HOLY lives! 7. The Holy Bible is the perfect, infallible and complete word of God given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit to holy men to write as the Spirit gave them the utterance and inspiration!

mtpockets

well said. the reason as i said before is because man's view is being used and not God's guidance. i am not saying God would not use a pastor who dresses well but if you read the word it will tell you what God looks for in a minister.

Rex said:

I disagree simply because your view ignores the full context of teaching.
Consider these verses as well, you simply can't take verses and teach a particular perspective as the complete true and ignore the others.

1 Peter 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

Matt. 12:38-39
Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, "Master, we would see a sign from thee." But He answered and said unto them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. But there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."

Matt. 24:23-25
If any man shall say to you, "Lo, here is Christ," or, "There!," believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

John 20:29
Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

For what reasons does God generally perform miracles in our midst?
A. Miracles serve as a confirmation of a person's ministry or message.
1. The minister (person), that he is sent by God.
Exodus 4:3-9, 30:7:10, 12
Numbers 16:28-35
I Samuel 12:17, 18
I Kings 17:24
Mark 9:39; 16:17-18
John 3:2:6:14, 36; 11:42
Acts 2:22
2 Corinthians 12:12

They serve as a conformation of the message, that being said how shall we then discern the false prophets preforming signs and miracles?
We can not automatically presume the foundation is sure, we must look at what is being taught. The signs are not evidence of validity.
Again I'm weary of those that teach signs and wonders as evidence of truth. Jesus said to Tomas "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed".

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. But there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."

Is this generation seeking after signs and wonders? Are their some among us that seek signs and wonders?
Its unstable ground and needs to looked at closely. That's not my opinion that's what the words says.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 " The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders"

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ok then you tell me what is so great about christianity over any other religion? if christianity were so great then why isn't the whole world christian? your reasoning cannot include anything that is supernatural.

it will be interesting to hear you try and prove christianity is better then Judaism, islam, budism, hinduism, atheism, satanism, and ect. i like some of the benefits of these other religions over christianity. i could make it simpler for you and say why is christianity better them mormonism, jehovah witnesses, and ect. there is no need to quote the bible because i am not looking for scripture references but something that would convince me christianity is better then any other because christianity is not the only religion that believes in eternal life, but some of they other religions allow me to be part of all religions and not have a single religion. i like the idea of taking the best of many religions and taking few of the bad that normally goes with them.

if you can explain to me why christianity is so great then explain why christianity is getting smaller while islam and atheism are getting a lot larger. i wait your reply. but i doubt you can give me a satisfactory answer to either of my questions on why christianity is better then any other religion and then why christianity is growing smaller while islam and atheism are getting bigger if christianity is so great.

God bless

7angels said:

mtpockets

well said. the reason as i said before is because man's view is being used and not God's guidance. i am not saying God would not use a pastor who dresses well but if you read the word it will tell you what God looks for in a minister.


ok then you tell me what is so great about christianity over any other religion? if christianity were so great then why isn't the whole world christian? your reasoning cannot include anything that is supernatural.

it will be interesting to hear you try and prove christianity is better then Judaism, islam, budism, hinduism, atheism, satanism, and ect. i like some of the benefits of these other religions over christianity. i could make it simpler for you and say why is christianity better them mormonism, jehovah witnesses, and ect. there is no need to quote the bible because i am not looking for scripture references but something that would convince me christianity is better then any other because christianity is not the only religion that believes in eternal life, but some of they other religions allow me to be part of all religions and not have a single religion. i like the idea of taking the best of many religions and taking few of the bad that normally goes with them.

if you can explain to me why christianity is so great then explain why christianity is getting smaller while islam and atheism are getting a lot larger. i wait your reply. but i doubt you can give me a satisfactory answer to either of my questions on why christianity is better then any other religion and then why christianity is growing smaller while islam and atheism are getting bigger if christianity is so great.

God bless

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Then I will tell you what I learned under my biblical mentor as he was lead by the Spirit, the fundamental elementary truth.
The first point
All of those you mention all lay dead in their graves, Every founder of every system of religion is dead and buried,
Save one, Jesus the Christ, Son of God

June 8, 632 AD, Medina
Muhammad, Died


BC 483, Kushinagar
Gautama Buddha, Died

There is no single founder of Hinduism.
Vedas are believed to be imparted from God to human beings some thousands years ago and were carried forward through teacher-disciple tradition (Gury-Shishya Parampara). So, as Vedas were created by God, we can say that God, Himself, is the founder of Hinduism, which he updates from time to time by reincarnating Himself on the Earth.
No testimony to being risen from the dead by any Vedas, God did not choose Hinduism to demonstrate life over death

Founder of Momonisum Joesph Smith

Died June 27, 1844

Founder of Jehovah's Witnesses
Charles T. Russell died in 1916.

7angels said:

mtpockets

well said. the reason as i said before is because man's view is being used and not God's guidance. i am not saying God would not use a pastor who dresses well but if you read the word it will tell you what God looks for in a minister.


ok then you tell me what is so great about christianity over any other religion? if christianity were so great then why isn't the whole world christian? your reasoning cannot include anything that is supernatural.

it will be interesting to hear you try and prove christianity is better then Judaism, islam, budism, hinduism, atheism, satanism, and ect. i like some of the benefits of these other religions over christianity. i could make it simpler for you and say why is christianity better them mormonism, jehovah witnesses, and ect. there is no need to quote the bible because i am not looking for scripture references but something that would convince me christianity is better then any other because christianity is not the only religion that believes in eternal life, but some of they other religions allow me to be part of all religions and not have a single religion. i like the idea of taking the best of many religions and taking few of the bad that normally goes with them.

if you can explain to me why christianity is so great then explain why christianity is getting smaller while islam and atheism are getting a lot larger. i wait your reply. but i doubt you can give me a satisfactory answer to either of my questions on why christianity is better then any other religion and then why christianity is growing smaller while islam and atheism are getting bigger if christianity is so great.

God bless

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Oh, I was going to say that what sets Christianity apart from other religions is that the Spirit of God has come to dwell within man, but then, you did not want any that is supernatural. The reason that only a minority of men are Christian, is because of the Cross. The Cross is a scandal to men and foolishness. Because of the Cross and the crucified life that Christians are called to (walk as Jesus walked), Christianity will always be a very small minority on earth and never the popular religion. And afterall, it's not religion at all, but a living, vibrant relationship with the indwelling God.

7angels said:

mtpockets

well said. the reason as i said before is because man's view is being used and not God's guidance. i am not saying God would not use a pastor who dresses well but if you read the word it will tell you what God looks for in a minister.


ok then you tell me what is so great about christianity over any other religion? if christianity were so great then why isn't the whole world christian? your reasoning cannot include anything that is supernatural.

it will be interesting to hear you try and prove christianity is better then Judaism, islam, budism, hinduism, atheism, satanism, and ect. i like some of the benefits of these other religions over christianity. i could make it simpler for you and say why is christianity better them mormonism, jehovah witnesses, and ect. there is no need to quote the bible because i am not looking for scripture references but something that would convince me christianity is better then any other because christianity is not the only religion that believes in eternal life, but some of they other religions allow me to be part of all religions and not have a single religion. i like the idea of taking the best of many religions and taking few of the bad that normally goes with them.

if you can explain to me why christianity is so great then explain why christianity is getting smaller while islam and atheism are getting a lot larger. i wait your reply. but i doubt you can give me a satisfactory answer to either of my questions on why christianity is better then any other religion and then why christianity is growing smaller while islam and atheism are getting bigger if christianity is so great.

God bless

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OK, '7Angels', I'll take the bait:

Your first series of questions: "ok then you tell me what is so great about christianity over any other religion? if christianity were so great then why isn't the whole world christian? your reasoning cannot include anything that is supernatural".
Of course, I could offer the familiar response that Christianity is not a religion and you would rightly discern it as insufficient.
Others will boast that Christians are blessed with a "fresh start" in life because of Jesus' voluntary death which removed the deserved penalty of our sinful past. This response is inadequate as well as being woefully shallow.
Some too will excitedly claim that Christians are those who have made a decision to live within a structure of moral codes as outlined by the Ten Commandments and reinforced by Matthew 12:30-31. Not only is this answer insufficient, it's also self-deceiving.
I remiind you of the bible passage, "And, God said 'Let us make man'", (Gen 1:26).
This verse prompts the question: Does God speak words that are meaningless?
It is the answer to this question which forms the determinate between merely owning an existence and possessing genuine life
When God spoke us into existence, it compelled us to set out on a journey to discover meaning ... our intended value ... our true identity.
Yes, it's common these days to hear people speaking about “purpose” and other such oblique philosohies. In fact, there's a very popular Christian book titled “The Purpose Driven Life” which has captivated the thought-world of many today. Innumerable philosophic pretences, including altruism, are so utterly subjective and self-deceiving. Sadly, it becomes true that the most painful lies of all are those which we unkindly tell to ourselves.
No, we have no need to busy ourselves with the shallow search for some elusive purpose.
We have nothing in common with the aimless wanderings of the vagrant atheists; nor with those dancing in the pits of oriental thought worlds; and certainly not with those peering into the murky depths of occult practices.
Instead, our task is to become acquainted with the thoughts of God towards us when He fashioned us in the womb, (Job 31:15). Only then can we find the meaning.of our existence and discover the eternal value of God's creative Word for us.
So, '7Angels', to answer your question about what distinguishes the Christian journey from others is this:We Christians refuse to chase after unfulfilling purposes. Instead, we seek to discover and honor the meaning pf our existence which God proclaimed at our very origin.
The Gospel of Jesus invites everyone to cast off their sandals of clay and shields of straw; to discard the masks of pretentious piety, and to remove the cloaks which have been knitted by the zealots of religious puppetry.
We no longer are mesmerized by the cultural church and their theatrical pilgrimages.
No longer do we chase after occult methodologies to camouflage the betrayal of God's ultimate intentions..
We refuse to follow after the 'Gospel of Anesthesia' where the 'dead' are merely exhumed and not resurrected.
We have learned to cringe under the pretended hugs at Babylon's door; the embalmers embrace!
We wish no part of the 'Gospel of Autopsy' which eagerly rips open festering wounds and teases the most secret scars but fails to provide the ointments of restoration and healing.
We have become deaf to the 'Gospel of Health and Wealth' which functions with the pernicious skill of ambulance chasers.
The Gospel of Jesus offers elevation, not levitation; life assurance, not a fire insurance; genuine freedom, and not merely a tentative truce.
Its preoccupation is mercy, not money; triumph, not success; inheritance, not reward
The discovery of the meaning of our existence is what permits us to leave the warmth of the womb and truly partake of the New Birth.

you have great reasoning but still it would not be enough to convince me that christianity is the best religion to go with. the argument about Jesus still being alive while the rest are dead is pretty good too but now how do you prove Jesus is still alive?

what i am trying to get at is that the supernatural is necessary in order to prove that Jesus is alive. that what the Gospel teaches is true. the church nowadays is pretty powerless. did you know that even though christianity is not the biggest religion it still has the fastest conversion rate. these conversions are not taking place in the industrialized nations. why? it is in the industrialized nations that christianity is losing its hold. but in 3rd world countries christianity is running rampant and so are signs, miracles, and wonders. but here in industrialized nations there are very few signs, miracles, and wonders happening. the reasons for these manifestations should be fairly obvious to christians but for some reason the christians in industrialized nations are blinded by lack of knowledge. there are not even one church in the top 10 largest christian churches in the world that are in any industrialized nation. this should tell us something too. so what is it that third world nations do that industrialized don't? if you say the supernatural then you are right because many third world nation churches don't even have bibles.

God bless

THE WARNING

Jude 1:3 (KJV) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1:4 (KJV) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:16 (KJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Rep-ro-bate (rep’re-bat) adj. 1. Utterly depraved; profligate; corrupt. 2. Theol. Abandoned in sin; condemned. – n. One who is reprobate. – v.t. –bated, -bating 1. To disapprove of heartily; condemn. 2. Theol. To abandon to damnation. [<LL reprobare reprove} --rep’ro-ba’tion n. –rep’ro-ba’tive adj.

SCRIBES, PHARISEES AND SADDUCEES

Matthew 5:20 (KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 16:6 (KJV) Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:11 (KJV) How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 16:12 (KJV) Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 23:13 (KJV) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Hosea 4:6 (KJV) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Matthew 23:4 (KJV) For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Luke 11:42 (KJV) But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 15:7 (KJV) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

Matthew 15:8 (KJV) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

ESAIAS THE PROPHET (Isaiah)

Matthew 13:13 (KJV) Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 (KJV) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Matthew 13:15 (KJV) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mark 7:5 (KJV) Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mark 7:6 (KJV) He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:7 (KJV) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:8 (KJV) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9 (KJV) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

John 12:37 (KJV) But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

John 12:38 (KJV) That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

John 12:39 (KJV) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

John 12:40 (KJV) He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

John 12:41 (KJV) These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

John 12:42 (KJV) Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

John 12:43 (KJV) For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

GOD WILL TEACH YOU

Ephesians 1:17 (KJV) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I Corinthians 2:12 (KJV) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I Corinthians 2:13 (KJV) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Colossians 2:8 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

OLD TEMPLE OF GOD (Made by hands)

Isaiah 56:7 (KJV) Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Matthew 21:13 (KJV) And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

John 2:16 (KJV) And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

John 2:19 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

THE VEIL (Lifted by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ)

Mark 15:37 (KJV) And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Mark 15:38 (KJV) And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Hebrews 10:19 (KJV) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:20 (KJV) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hebrews 10:21 (KJV) And having an high priest over the house of God;

Acts 15:5 (KJV) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:6 (KJV) And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Acts 15:7 (KJV) And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Acts 15:8 (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 15:9 (KJV) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Con-se-crate (kon’se-krat) v.t. –crated, -crating 1. To set apart as sacred; dedicate to sacred uses. 2. To dedicate solemnly or devote: consecrate one’s life to a cause. 3. To make reverend; hallow. [<L com- thoroughly + sacer holy] --con’se-cra’tion, con’se-cra’tor n. –con-se-cra-to-ry (kon’se-kre-tor’e, -to’re) adj.

NEW TEMPLE OF GOD (Not made by hands)

Acts 7:47 (KJV) But Solomon built him an house.

Acts 7:48 (KJV) Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 7:49 (KJV) Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Acts 7:50 (KJV) Hath not my hand made all these things?

Acts 17:24 (KJV) God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Hebrews 9:11 (KJV) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

I Corinthians 3:9 (KJV) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

I Corinthians 3:16 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

II Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 9:24 (KJV) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

A NEW PRIESTHOOD

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:13 (KJV) For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Hebrews 7:14 (KJV) For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Hebrews 7:15 (KJV) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

Hebrews 7:16 (KJV) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Hebrews 7:17 (KJV) For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Si-mil-i-tude (si-mil’e-t-ood) n. 1. Similarity; correspondence. 2. One who or that which is similar; counterpart. 3. A point of similarity. [<K similis like]

I John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

A SYNAGOGUE DEFINED

Syn - a - gogue (sin’- gog, - gog) n. 1. A place of meeting for Jewish worship and religious instruction. 2. A Jewish congregation or assemblage for religious instruction and observances. Also syn’ a-gog. [ < Gk. synagoge an assembly ]

Synagogue, n. – syn. Place of worship, temple, Jewish synagogue, house of God; see church 1.

Church (church) n. 1. A building for Christian worship. 2. Religious services in a church. 3. A congregation of Christians. 4. Usu. Cap. A body of Christians having a common faith; a denomination. 5. Christians collectively. 6. Ecclesiastical organization and authority: separation of church and state. 7. The clerical profession. [ < Gk. kyria-kon (doma) the Lord’s (house)]

Church, n. 1. [A building consecrated to worship] – Syn. House of God, Lord’s house, cathedral, temple, synagogue, mosque, oratory, place of worship, house of prayer, meetinghouse, chapel, minster, basilica, tabernacle, bethel, abbey, sanctuary, sacellum, chantry, pantheon, conventicle, collegiate church, mission, shrine, duomo (usu. In Italy), pagoda, kirk (Scottish); see also cathedral, temple.

THE CHURCH & THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH

I Corinthians 3:3 (KJV) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

I Corinthians 3:4 (KJV) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

I Corinthians 12:12 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

I Corinthians 12:13 (KJV) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I Corinthians 12:14 (KJV) For the body is not one member, but many.

I Corinthians 12:23 (KJV) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

I Corinthians 12:24 (KJV) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

I Corinthians 12:25 (KJV) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

I Corinthians 12:26 (KJV) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

I Corinthians 12:27(KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

I Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teacher, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ephesians 5:23 (KJV) For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

John 1:10 (KJV) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Revelation 2:17 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Car-nal (kar-nel) adj. 1. Pertaining to bodily appetites; not spiritual. 2. Sensual; sexual. [<L caro, carnis flesh] --car’nal-ist, car-nal-i-ty (kar-nal’e-te) n. –car’nal-ly

Schism (siz’em, skiz’em) n. 1. A division of a church into factions because of differences in doctrine, 2. A splitting into antagonistic groups. [<Gk.. schizein to split]

Pre-em-i-nent (pre-em’e-nent) adj. Supremely eminent; distinguished above all others. –pre-em’i-nent-ly adv. pre-em’i-nence n.

I Corintians 1:10 (KJV) Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I Corinthians 3:9 (KJV) For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

I Corinthians 3:10 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

I Corinthians 3:11 (KJV) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

FALSE PROPHETS AMONG YOU

I John 4:1 (KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I John 4:2 (KJV) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

I John 4:3 (KJV) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I John 4:4 (KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I John 4:5 (KJV) They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

I John 4:6 (KJV) We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

MANY ANTICHRISTS

John 5:38 (KJV) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

John 5:39 (KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:40 (KJV) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

II Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

I John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

I John 2:22 (KJV) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

I John 2:23 (KJV) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I John 4:3 (KJV) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

II John 1:7 (KJV) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

II John 1:8 (KJV) Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

II John 1:9 (KJV) Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

James 4:4 (KJV) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

I John 2:15 (KJV) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I John 2:16 (KJV) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

I John 2:17 (KJV) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Mark 4:19 (KJV) And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

I Corinthians 14:33 (KJV) For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16 (KJV) For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

James 3:17 (KJV) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

En-mi-ty (en’me-te) n. pl. –ties 1. The spirit of an enemy; hostility. 2. The state of being an enemy; a hostile condition. [<L inimicus hostile]

Hy-poc-ri-sy (hi-pok’re-se) n. pl. –sies A pretending to be what one is not; extreme insincerity; dissimulation. [<Gk. hypokrisis acting a part, feigning] –Syn. Pretense, dissembling, affectation, sham, fakery.

GOD’S WRATH UPON BLIND WATCHMAN

Isaiah 56:10 (KJV) His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

Isaiah 56:11 (KJV) Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: They all look to their own way, Every one for his gain, from his quarter

Matthew 15:14 (KJV) Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Matthew 7:21 (KJV) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 (KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 (KJV) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Acts 5:38 (KJV) And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

Jeremiah 9:25 (KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;
II Thessilionians 1:8 (KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

II Thessilionians 1:9 (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Hebrews 10:29 (KJV) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:30 (KJV) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

II Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

II Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

II Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

CHRIST FORTELLS OF TRUE WORSHIPPERS OF GOD

John 4:19 (KJV) The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

John 4:20 (KJV) Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

John 4:21 (KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

John 4:22 (KJV) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

John 4:23 (KJV) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 4:24 (KJV) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Actions speak louder than words…

Love by faith, faith by works

Son of The Living God

7angels said:

you have great reasoning but still it would not be enough to convince me that christianity is the best religion to go with. the argument about Jesus still being alive while the rest are dead is pretty good too but now how do you prove Jesus is still alive?

what i am trying to get at is that the supernatural is necessary in order to prove that Jesus is alive. that what the Gospel teaches is true. the church nowadays is pretty powerless. did you know that even though christianity is not the biggest religion it still has the fastest conversion rate. these conversions are not taking place in the industrialized nations. why? it is in the industrialized nations that christianity is losing its hold. but in 3rd world countries christianity is running rampant and so are signs, miracles, and wonders. but here in industrialized nations there are very few signs, miracles, and wonders happening. the reasons for these manifestations should be fairly obvious to christians but for some reason the christians in industrialized nations are blinded by lack of knowledge. there are not even one church in the top 10 largest christian churches in the world that are in any industrialized nation. this should tell us something too. so what is it that third world nations do that industrialized don't? if you say the supernatural then you are right because many third world nation churches don't even have bibles.

God bless

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Hi! '7Angels'
First thing that should be said is that you're in good company when asking the question, "How do you prove that Jesus is still alive?". Perhaps you would do better to direct such a question to Thomas, (John 20:27). Failing that, you might consider publishing a book outlining your doubts and suspicions and title it "The Resurrection Hoax". It could very well sell in the millions.
I intentionally neglected to mention that the demographic and other generalized statistics you posed might very well seem true to the common observer. But since you insisted to submit them once again, I suppose that I could address them as well.
The truth is that no one should be surprised that the Christian church is, as you say, not the biggest religion nor the fastest conversion rate. If it is true, (as I mentioned in earlier comment), that you get what you ask/seek/open ... it also remains true that you reap what you sow.
Is the feeble circumstance of the church in the industrial world the result of a frail Gospel? Certainly not!
It's not the gospel that is weak and beggarly. Those who proclaim the gospel are sickly and wavering ... and, unfortunately too, those who profess it. Shamefully, a lot of our local churches preach a shallow gospel; something best suited for spiritual dwarfs and not for the development of spiritually mature Christians. Sometimes I suspect that the grace of God is oftentimes more present at a local Alcoholics Anonymous meeting than behind our stain-glassed windows.
But all that being said, what is the solution? What must happen to dramatically increase the effectiveness of our congregations?
Speaking from personal experience, we need to get to know more about the Bible than the shallowness of reward and punishment. We need to discover what it truly means to be born again as a "new creature".
And that's just the beginning of our obtaining our Christian blessings and heritage.
Of course, we should not altogether dismiss the fact that the evil one opposes everything concerning Christianity. This is quite evident worldwide. It's not as if the Church is being built in a harmless or comfortable vacuum.
Here's a thought for you to ponder:
You will remember the Scripture saying, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it", (Matt 7:14).
Why is it said that the way is narrow? Doesn't God eagerly wish everyone to enter in? Was it God who made the way narrow? If not, who made it narrow?
The answer is the evil one. It was the devil who made the entrance into the arms of God difficult and narrow. Certainly not God!
As the Scripture says:
"This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth", (1 Timothy 2:4)
"Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live", (Ezekiel 18:23)
"I don't want you to die, says the Sovereign LORD. Turn back and live!", (Ezekiel 18:32)
The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent", (2 Peter 3:9)

veteran said:

Where has real Bible teaching and study gone in many of today's Churches?

I mean, look at the kind of topics many start here. The majority of them are pop ideas going around in Christian literature outside of God's Holy Writ.

Where's topics with real Bible Scripture examples line upon line, instead of mini hops and jumps with a lot of men's leaven added to it?

What would you rather hear, some man that seeks to be looked up to by his eloquent speech and ability to write a long philosophical treatise? Or would you rather hear God's Word directly from His Word taught to you line upon line?

How many know that it was the duty of the priests of Israel to stand before the people and read God's Word to them directly line upon line, while giving them the meaning? You know what that level of Bible teaching and study requires? It means the teachers cannot play hop-scotch within God's Word jumping around to get It out of the context of the Book, chapter and verse. It means having to cover verses those not called don't understand, or that might cause conflict with their organization system's doctrines, or that might offend someone.

Click to expand...

They are called Seeker Friendly churches, tickling ears to get numbers.

Rex said:

And just where have you discovered and learned of this gospel of Jesus?

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Hi! 'Rex'
Ummm, actually there is a significant difference between the gospel ABOUT Jesus and the gospel OF Jesus.
There is the gospel of repentance, (eg: John the Baptist), and also the gospel of the Kingdom, (eg: Jesus).
Of course, the next obvious question is, "What is the gospel OF Jesus?".
Simply stated: it's the Gospel of the Kingdom. The very same gospel which Matthew addressed when writing, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come", (Matt 24:14)..

A common misconception with many Christians today is that they mistake the purpose of Jesus' ministry. The first thing that often enters their mind is that Jesus performed many miracles to reveal Himself as the Christ. There is also a secondary misconception which causes many Christians to believe that Jesus came to earth only to redeem sins.
The fact is that the ministry of Jesus was first and foremost to reveal the Kingdom of Heaven. The miracles and signs which followed were the evidence of His activities in that kingdom.
It's not a curious thing that Jesus never left us a single description of His appearance. His followers were struck by the greatness of His inner man and the heavenly authority of His words and deeds, (John 1:14).
Jesus came not only to redeem our sins but to also restore us to the uttermost.

The footPRINTs of Jesus are plainly evident to both the saved and unsaved. They remain as undeniable historical facts.
But the footSTEPS of Jesus can only become known through the gospel of Jesus ... the gospel of the Kingdom.
"To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps", (1Pet 2:21)
So it is that Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?", (John 3:12). It is only the gospel of the kingdom which speaks about our heavenly citizenship and of walk and struggle there.

The Scriptures are abundantly clear concerning the gospel OF Jesus.
For example, hover your Mouse over the following verses:
Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 4:23, Matthew 13:19, Matthew 9:35, Matthew 10:7, Matthew 24:14, Mark 1:14, Mark 4:11, Luke 4:43, Luke 8:1, Luke 9:2, Luke 9:11, Luke 9:60, Luke 16:16, Acts 1:3, Acts 8:12, Acts 19:8, Acts 20:25, Acts 28:23, Acts 28:31 .