Holiness or Hell. God's command to His people!

IanLC · Jan 9, 2013

God is holy, Jesus the Christ is holy and the Holy Spirit is holy, the Holy Writ is holy and the gospel of Jesus Christ is holy. We as the church is called to live holy as He our master is holy! (1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 19:2). Holiness is perfect and complete or absolute only in God. He alone is in essence purely holy and He alone birthed or brought about holiness. Yet God imparts upon those whom He chooses (Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:15) holiness and righteousness. God has chosen in this New Covenant to impart His righteousness on the Church specifically the saved (Galatians 2:16). God righteousness is Him declaring us in "right" standing with Him through the redeeming work of Jesus the Holy Christ. Yet holiness is commanded by God despite Him declaring us righteous. Holiness is not legalism or self righteousness or religious piety it is a heart centered on serving Jesus as slaves of righteousness (Romans 6:18). Thus our conduct, matches our confession, our talk matches our walk and our possession matches our profession. For if a holy God dwells on the inside of you then holiness will show out of you. For Jesus declared that "what is in a man will come out of him" (Luke 6:45). As Christians though still being human can not meet this high command of God to live and be holy in our own means. For no man is righteous (Romans 3:10) and man's righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Thus God sends a comforter and a power agent to help us in holy walk (Acts 1:8) this comforter is the Holy Spirit. Look at the name the Holy Spirit is holy and thus He is the perfect agent to work God's sanctification process in us. For it is the Holy Spirit that sanctifies us and presents us faultless (Jude 1:24). As believers there is no excuse for us not to live holy and progress in sanctification because we have the aid of the Holy Ghost. Thus the command of God is repeated in the New Testament for the ecclesia the chosen people of God, the church to live holy. 2 Corinthians 7:1 "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.". There is no way around it and for those that refuse to live holy or progress in sanctification and thus continue in sin then grace is rendered useless and thus they are overturned in a reprobate mind (Romans 1:28). And those lukewarm and worldy professors of Christ will be spewed out of His mouth (Revelation 3:16). The Apostle Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit tells the church to expel the immoral brother (1 Corinthians 5:13). Now this is not a command to kick out those that slip and fall into sin for He also declares in Galatians 6:1 that them that are spiritual should restore the brothers that fall. But this command to expel were for those that blatantly and proudly professed CHrist and lived like the devil. God hold the church at a high standard and thus their lives should be lived at that standard. We are a pecuilar people (1 Peter 2:9). Thus as priests and chosen people of God we can not do everything the world does for we have been changed. Therefore we are to "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And I will be your Father, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the LORD Almighty." ( 2 Corinthians 6:17-18). Now this does not mean not to communicate and work with unbelievers but when we do we should be different and holy in our conduct and actions for Chris the Holy master has redeemed us from the world and being on our way to Hell! Yet if we profess Christ then continue in sin we forfeit our salvation and thus receive Hell as our destined place. For God demands His people to "Follow peace with all men and live holy, for without holiness no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). Isaiah 35:8 "And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it." Holiness is the perfect form of freedom for those redeemed and saved by the blood of Jesus. In conclusion, "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy." (Leviticus 19:2) "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done." (Revelation 22:12) and Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." (Revelation 22:11).
Abundant Blessings,
UHCAIan

justaname · Jan 9, 2013

Holy means separate.

Let our thoughts, words, and actions prove the love of Chirst in us and through us, and we will be holy. Let us love our enemies and as well as our family we will be holy. Let sin not be master over us and we will be holy. Let us serve Jesus Christ and we will be holy.

IanLC · Jan 10, 2013

Amen! Yes thank you for the exhortation to holy living!

IanLC · Jan 13, 2013

When we are regenerated (saved) we are taken out of the world. When we are definitely sanctified the world is taken out of us!

Episkopos · Jan 15, 2013

Greetings to all. I think that most Christians do not fear hell as a possible outcome for their choices in life.....after all...didn't they already make the right choice by deciding to believe in Jesus Christ?

Now, I grant that there is merit to this lack of fear since the bible says that those who believe in Jesus will never die.

But the biblical position holds out another possibility to those who believe but do not obey...and that is to be rejected from the kingdom into an eternal darkness...and this in a "saved" condition.

Can we ignore the warnings of Jesus Christ that He will reject us unless we live IN Him? In holiness!!!! We have been warned that without holiness we shall NOT see God. We have been warned to DO the commandments of Christ or else He will send us away. We have been warned that He will spit us out of His mouth unless we DO what pleases Him.

I think that we moderns have a far too superficial view on things eternal. We tend to strain out all the difficult truth in order to swallow what goes down easier for the unregenerate man. In other words we tend towards slackness when it comes to the high calling in Christ.

We are saved by believing INTO Jesus Christ...INTO HIS holiness and light. The promise of a slack believer's continuing carnality...is rejection into outer darkness.

justaname · Jan 15, 2013

Episkopos said:
Greetings to all. I think that most Christians do not fear hell as a possible outcome for their choices in life.....after all...didn't they already make the right choice by deciding to believe in Jesus Christ?

Now, I grant that there is merit to this lack of fear since the bible says that those who believe in Jesus will never die.

But the biblical position holds out another possibility to those who believe but do not obey...and that is to be rejected from the kingdom into an eternal darkness...and this in a "saved" condition.

Can we ignore the warnings of Jesus Christ that He will reject us unless we live IN Him? In holiness!!!! We have been warned that without holiness we shall NOT see God. We have been warned to DO the commandments of Christ or else He will send us away. We have been warned that He will spit us out of His mouth unless we DO what pleases Him.

I think that we moderns have a far too superficial view on things eternal. We tend to strain out all the difficult truth in order to swallow what goes down easier for the unregenerate man. In other words we tend towards slackness when it comes to the high calling in Christ.

We are saved by believing INTO Jesus Christ...INTO HIS holiness and light. The promise of a slack believer's continuing carnality...is rejection into outer darkness.

2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.

I do not believe the Christian need fear these things you mention because God is the enabler. Although if one neglects or rejects to do these things one may want to question their belief.

Proverbs 9:10
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I believe our fear should be more biblically based.

Episkopos · Jan 15, 2013

justaname said:
2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.

I do not believe the Christian need fear these things you mention because God is the enabler. Although if one neglects or rejects to do these things one may want to question their belief.

Proverbs 9:10
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I believe our fear should be more biblically based.

But just what is God enabling? Is He willing to spoil certain people while condemning others wholesale? Is God like a Celestial Candyman?

A biblical God has no respect for persons...which means we will each be judged by our thoughts and actions.

Warrior · Jan 15, 2013

God Never expected Us to be Pefection......I truly 100% Believe Life with Jesus is supposed to be simple. All I ever hear about is :

"Do everything everything so perfectly, Go out of your way to make yourself a robot and Dont let me catch you being a regular human being, Or else you will burn so firey In hell forever and ever and ever"

come on....God commanded us to be Good people following Jesus and his word. My grandpa cusses alot and he visited Heaven once in a coma....So explain it

justaname · Jan 15, 2013

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

1 Peter 5:10
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

Romans 8:29
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

If you choose to rely on yourself as opposed to God and establish your own righteousness, then you fail in the same manner as national Israel.

Romans 10:3-4
3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Isaiah and Jeremiah understood the difference, you speak as if your will is greater than the Lords, and you can thwart His purpose, if it is indeed His Spirit is in you.

Isaiah 63:17
17 Why, O Lord, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.

Jeremiah 10:23-24
23 I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
24 Correct me, O Lord, but with justice; Not with Your anger, or You will bring me to nothing.

I am not claiming to be an antinomian, and all will face judgement, (Romans 14:10-12) but I do profess in my submission and steadfastness of faith His will done in me and through me.

Colossians 1:22-23
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Notice the condition, lack of faith. Promoting a spirit of fear and worry does nothing to advance the gospel. If it is fear you wish to promote, let all fear the LORD! Shall we fear hell over the Creator of hell?

Jeremiah 32:40
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

Philippians 1:10
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

It does not say righteousness comes from ourselves, but through Jesus Christ.

IanLC · Jan 15, 2013

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) Yes we are declared righteous by God through the blood of Jesus but God also demands that we live holy and abide by His statutes or there will be consequences. Salvation is not a free will pass to sin and just ask for forgiveness no! Repentance is not just forgiveness it means to turn from ones way and change your mindset and thus your actions. Jesus is the Holy Christ and He wants His church to be HOLY inside and out!
"and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him"(Hebrews 5:9)
"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship." (Romans 12:1)
"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)
"Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love." (Ephesians 1:4)

There is no preference of way around it. You and I must live holy or we will find ourselves spending eternity in Hell for our disobedience! Woe to the servant that knows my will(law, word, commands) yet refuses to do it!
"“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." (Matthew 18:6-9)
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." (Revelation 22:14-15)

justaname · Jan 15, 2013

UHCAIan said:
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) Yes we are declared righteous by God through the blood of Jesus but God also demands that we live holy and abide by His statutes or there will be consequences.

This passage does not say work for your salvation but to put into practice in their daily living what God has already worked in them through His Spirit. A call to living holy as it were.

UHCAIan said:
Salvation is not a free will pass to sin and just ask for forgiveness no! Repentance is not just forgiveness it means to turn from ones way and change your mindset and thus your actions. Jesus is the Holy Christ and He wants His church to be HOLY inside and out!

I have not disagreed with this at all nor do I present anything different but much rather redirect our focus to the One who allows and enables us to live holy. Self determination creates nothing but sinful pride.

UHCAIan said:
"and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him"(Hebrews 5:9)
"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship." (Romans 12:1)
"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)
"Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love." (Ephesians 1:4)

There is no preference of way around it. You and I must live holy or we will find ourselves spending eternity in Hell for our disobedience!

And I say those who are His will and do.

UHCAIan said:
Woe to the servant that knows my will(law, word, commands) yet refuses to do it!

Is this scripture, or yours? Just asking because I can't seem to find it if it is scripture. It does somewhat make sense, especially in the case of Jonah, but if it is that you are His servant I am not convinced you can truly continue to refuse God's will, similar to the case of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 20:7-9
7 O Lord, You have deceived me and I was deceived; You have overcome me and prevailed. I have become a laughingstock all day long;
Everyone mocks me.
8 For each time I speak, I cry aloud; I proclaim violence and destruction, Because for me the word of the Lord has resulted In reproach and derision all day long.
9 But if I say, “I will not remember Him Or speak anymore in His name,” Then in my heart it becomes like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; And I am weary of holding it in, And I cannot endure it.

UHCAIan said:
"“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." (Matthew 18:6-9)
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." (Revelation 22:14-15)

IanLC · Jan 16, 2013

You can not genuinely say you believe and continue to live in sin for you are not. Yes sanctification is a progressive work but it is a work and there should be a difference from your life unsaved and your life saved. We say the gospel is life changing! Well is your life has not changed since you heard the gospel than you have not been genuinely changed! Salvation as I have stated before and will continue to state is not a free passage way to sin. God focus on the inner man and the hear if your heart is evil and corrupted it will show out through you actions and if you have Christ and righteousness on the inside then He will display Himself on the outside. (Luke 6:45)
No where did I tell you how to live holy or put laws or human standards on holiness so there is not self determination or self righteousness. The Holy Spirit sanctifies and with us as believers having the indwelling of the HOLY Ghost there is no need for us to willingly sin and or continue in sin we have no excuse for the power of the Godhead lies in us! So it is either holiness or Hell! (Hebrews 12:14)
How else can you witness effectively and see souls saved unless you live holy and display the power of the gospel. Many get it twisted because they think they can confess CHrist "once saved always saved" false doctrine and live like the devil and try to convert others to Christ. You can not witness to others the power of Jesus Christ if they see that you are living no different from them! The standard is high and it is holiness and God will produce the work in the believer! It is for us to obey Him and submit our minds, heart, souls and body to Him! Yes it is not by works that we are saved but works are a genuine fruit of the faith/salvation we say we confess! And yet faith apart from works is dead(James 2:17). The soul who sins will be the one to die!(Ezekiel 18:20). For in God there is only light and there is no darkness or sin! "This is the message we heard from Jesus and now declare to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him at all."(1 John 1:5)
""That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows." (Luke 12:47) AND NO THAT IS NOT ONE OF MY MADE UP SCRIPTURES IT IS THE TRUTH!
"The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers." (Luke 12:47)
"Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins." (James 4:17)
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God" (2 Corinthians 7:1)

justaname · Jan 16, 2013

UHCAIan said:
You can not genuinely say you believe and continue to live in sin for you are not. Yes sanctification is a progressive work but it is a work and there should be a difference from your life unsaved and your life saved. We say the gospel is life changing! Well is your life has not changed since you heard the gospel than you have not been genuinely changed! Salvation as I have stated before and will continue to state is not a free passage way to sin.

Here I agree, "I am not claiming to be an antinomian," and now I double affirm your statements. I will only add you are not genuine in your belief or have you ever been saved if you believe you have a free passage to sin.

UHCAIan said:
God focus on the inner man and the hear if your heart is evil and corrupted it will show out through you actions and if you have Christ and righteousness on the inside then He will display Himself on the outside. (Luke 6:45)

Every person's heart is corrupt and evil, that is why we need Jesus to do His work in and through us. Genesis 6:5

UHCAIan said:
No where did I tell you how to live holy or put laws or human standards on holiness so there is not self determination or self righteousness. The Holy Spirit sanctifies and with us as believers having the indwelling of the HOLY Ghost there is no need for us to willingly sin and or continue in sin we have no excuse for the power of the Godhead lies in us! So it is either holiness or Hell! (Hebrews 12:14)

And I claim God does His work in us just as His word promises.

UHCAIan said:
How else can you witness effectively and see souls saved unless you live holy and display the power of the gospel. Many get it twisted because they think they can confess CHrist "once saved always saved" false doctrine and live like the devil and try to convert others to Christ.

I say only those who are saved are saved. If they live like the devil one should question their own belief and salvation, and it leaves room for others to question that belief also.

UHCAIan said:
You can not witness to others the power of Jesus Christ if they see that you are living no different from them! The standard is high and it is holiness and God will produce the work in the believer! It is for us to obey Him and submit our minds, heart, souls and body to Him! Yes it is not by works that we are saved but works are a genuine fruit of the faith/salvation we say we confess! And yet faith apart from works is dead(James 2:17). The soul who sins will be the one to die!(Ezekiel 18:20). For in God there is only light and there is no darkness or sin! "This is the message we heard from Jesus and now declare to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him at all."(1 John 1:5)
""That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows." (Luke 12:47) AND NO THAT IS NOT ONE OF MY MADE UP SCRIPTURES IT IS THE TRUTH!
"The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers." (Luke 12:47)

I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all so all are His subjects, but truly the master in this case of the Luke passage is sin. John 8:34

UHCAIan said:
"Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins." (James 4:17)
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God" (2 Corinthians 7:1)

I do not believe you and I disagree too much rather we see things differently. You say "live Holy and stop sinning or go to hell", but in this you are dependent on yourself. I say "know you are weak in the flesh but draw from the strength God put in you to resist sin and the devil and you will be living holy."

Obviously we disagree on the OSAS issue, and that is OK, but please explain this verse for me.
Jeremiah 32:40
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

From my perspective the one who continues to sin willingly does not fear God or His judgement.

williemac · Jan 16, 2013

If there is anything that the bible and history have proven is that a man cannot change his own nature. God has shown through all the threats of punishment and promises for reward, that these things cannot produce either righteousness or holiness. The only recourse is to do away with our species altogether and start over. This is God's plan for mankind. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation. The old man is considered to be dead already, crucified with Christ. God solved the problem by killing us with Christ. Do not think you/we are escaping the punishment for sin. By faith in Jesus we have entered into His covenant by way of the cross. There are no other solutions. there is no other way.
The qualification that God has ordained for us to be part of this new creation is none other than humility. If anyone has confidence in his own effort or his own holiness, or his own works, then I advise he reads Luke 18:10-14.

If anyone thinks that he is producing or even keeping his salvation through his holy walk, then he has fallen short of holiness. No holy man has confidence in the flesh. It is a catch 22. Genuine holiness includes the humility and honesty to realize and recognize that what good things he is getting from God He did not earn or deserve, and that which he does deserve, by God's mercy he will be spared of. Rom.8:32 states that all things come from God freely through Christ. It will take some measure of humility to accept charity. But God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud.

IanLC · Jan 16, 2013

We are to worship God in the beauty of holiness (Psalm 96:9). As those that God has consecrated to His use and service only we are to walk in a way that is approtiate of the high calling we have received from God to be His holy vessells. Not by any righteousness of ourselves as I have stated in the original post but by the righteousness God produces in us that permeates our actions, thoughts, wants, intents and deeds. Too many Christians despise the word "holy" and "holy living". We are not to despise it but embrace holiness and the most perfect for of freedom for the believer. God is holy and thus He shows us the beauty and the grace of holiness. Holiness is beautiful on the inside and outside it is a perfect gift from God an attribute of God like His love. With God being holy He commands His people to be holy and loving or else there will be consequences. My question is why not pursue holiness? Why not live righteously? We preach, teach, live and believe in the one and only Holy faith. We serve the One and Only Holy God and we are saved by the One and Only Holy Jesus the Christ and we are filled with the One and Only Holy Ghost and we have the One and Only Holy Writ. Why do we need to continue in sin and make excuses for it?

Axehead · Jan 16, 2013

UHCAIan said:
When we are regenerated (saved) we are taken out of the world. When we are definitely sanctified the world is taken out of us!

Very good words from all. I would just add that when we are saved we are "delivered from the power of darkness into the kingdom of his dear Son", yet still in the world.

Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Joh_17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

IanLC · Jan 17, 2013

justaname said:
Here I agree, "I am not claiming to be an antinomian," and now I double affirm your statements. I will only add you are not genuine in your belief or have you ever been saved if you believe you have a free passage to sin.
Every person's heart is corrupt and evil, that is why we need Jesus to do His work in and through us. Genesis 6:5
And I claim God does His work in us just as His word promises.
I say only those who are saved are saved. If they live like the devil one should question their own belief and salvation, and it leaves room for others to question that belief also.
I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all so all are His subjects, but truly the master in this case of the Luke passage is sin. John 8:34
I do not believe you and I disagree too much rather we see things differently. You say "live Holy and stop sinning or go to hell", but in this you are dependent on yourself. I say "know you are weak in the flesh but draw from the strength God put in you to resist sin and the devil and you will be living holy."

Obviously we disagree on the OSAS issue, and that is OK, but please explain this verse for me.
Jeremiah 32:40
40 “I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

From my perspective the one who continues to sin willingly does not fear God or His judgement.

""'When I called, they did not listen; so when they called, I would not listen,' says the LORD Almighty" (Zechariah 7:13)
"Therefore this is what the LORD says: 'I will bring on them a disaster they cannot escape. Although they cry out to me, I will not listen to them." (Jeremiah 11:11)
"Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me." (Proverbs 1:28)
"When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood;" (Isaiah 1:15)

When we refuse to heed the commands of God to live holy and obedient to His will, He will turn a death ear after while. God's law is the same forever and He never changes! Holiness is the same today, yesterday, and forevermore and holiness is still the standard for Christian living.

"For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit," (Hebrews 6:4)
"It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." (2 Peter 2:21)
"If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that." (1 John 5:16)

Those who come to the faith and refuse to obey have the same lot and an even worse lot than those who do not believe! God's call is for repentance and righteousness! There is no other standard than holiness!

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left," (Hebrews 10:26)

justaname · Jan 17, 2013

John 10:27-29
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

Here our Good Shepherd speaks of His sheep. Notice what He says of His sheep; He knows exactly who they are, and they follow Him. Salvation is only for His sheep, none other. You can not become one of His and turn away because His sheep follow Him. To say any different is to claim His word a lie. This doctrine that you can become saved and then lose it is a deception straight from the accuser promoted by those who seek justice over mercy. James 2:13

Psalm 23:1-3
1 The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters.
3 He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake.

Seek to establish your own righteousness for your name sake and see where it leads you. Stand on your own strength to face sin and the devil and be brought low in your pride for your advisory is powerful, like a raging lion ready to devour, but stand on the Rock that established you and prevail. Only those He has established will prevail not that you can establish yourself.

Belief is not hollow words said to impress some one else, or spoken so you could join some group. Belief is not on again off again, here today gone tomorrow. Belief is not spoken of and then hidden away for no one else to see. Belief does not say be warmed and filled without providing heat and substance. Belief is not choked by thorns or thistles or carried away by hungry birds. But true belief, belief that beckons back to the One that established it, takes root in good soil and produces fruit some 30 some 60 some 100 fold. Belief stands firm in the face of adversity and is not wise in it's own eyes. Belief speaks truth not to raise one's self up or to drag others down, but is spoken in love and steadfastness. I know this because I believe that He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.

I agree to your call to holiness, and this we will do if the Lord permits, but not unless.

BTW:
I like your new Pic

but you did not speak one word to the verse I posted.

williemac · Jan 18, 2013

UHCAIan said:
We are to worship God in the beauty of holiness (Psalm 96:9). As those that God has consecrated to His use and service only we are to walk in a way that is approtiate of the high calling we have received from God to be His holy vessells. Not by any righteousness of ourselves as I have stated in the original post but by the righteousness God produces in us that permeates our actions, thoughts, wants, intents and deeds. Too many Christians despise the word "holy" and "holy living". We are not to despise it but embrace holiness and the most perfect for of freedom for the believer. God is holy and thus He shows us the beauty and the grace of holiness. Holiness is beautiful on the inside and outside it is a perfect gift from God an attribute of God like His love. With God being holy He commands His people to be holy and loving or else there will be consequences. My question is why not pursue holiness? Why not live righteously? We preach, teach, live and believe in the one and only Holy faith. We serve the One and Only Holy God and we are saved by the One and Only Holy Jesus the Christ and we are filled with the One and Only Holy Ghost and we have the One and Only Holy Writ. Why do we need to continue in sin and make excuses for it?

So, what you are saying is that the scripture really tells us that we are not saved by faith but rather by works? Or, to put it this way, we get saved by faith, but stay saved by works?
Hey, no one argues the fact that we are to walk upright in this life. But if we will be sent to hell because we did not accomplish it to the Lord's standard, then we are all doomed. His standard, as the law teaches, is a bar that is set so high that no one can reach it. I don't care how holy or righteous one thinks he is walking before the Lord, it isn't a perfect life we live, so if we are depending on our walk to keep us in good standing, we are barking up the wrong tree.

The problem with the premise of the OP (holiness or hell) is that we then enter into the game of comparing man vs. man instead of man vs. God. The fact is, though we have a new man created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph.4:24), and though we are exhorted to walk in this new man, we still have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7), so that the excellence of the glory is of Him and not of us.

The most damning temptation that man faces is not his sin, but his tendency to want to justifiy himself before his creator. But God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. Please refer to Luke18:10-14.
Walk holy as you can. No problem with that exhortation. Do it to remain in right standing before God? Think again.

IanLC · Jan 18, 2013

I never said that righteousness and holiness was gained by works! If you would read and comprehend what you read you will see that every time I stated that God imputes His righteousness in us! Sanctification is an inward and outward work of the Holy Spirit. Genuine belief produces action! True faith produces godly fruit! If any man can claim salvation and still sin He is not of God and the salvation he professes is null and void! Yet many today claim that since they are save by grace and are always saved then they can sin and do what they want that is a doctrine of Satan right from the pit of Hell! Righteousness permeates the whole being the words, thoughts, actions and heart! God commands Holiness in His people and that is what He will get! Call me what ever you want I know that God demands holiness in His people and that is the standard! Salvation is not by works lest any man boast but it is by faith and also faith without works is dead thus null and void!(James 2:17) The Holy Writ make sit abundantly clear what God seeks from all mankind and that is holiness! I stand on the Holy Writ and the conviction of the Holy Spirit that is either holiness or Hell! I can only believe what God demands and He demands righteousness. It is the least God commands of us after all He has given us through 1. Jesus Christ, 2. Him creating us 3. gift of the Holy Ghost, 4. His works in our personal lives and 5. Because He is God! I surrender from my old nature of sin that was leading me to Hell! I lived for Satan all that i knew how and did everything sinful! Yet when God saved me through Jesus Christ I became indebted to Jesus and obedient to His call for He snatched me from Hell and placed me into righteousness and He commands holiness and as a slave to Him I will live it!

"This is the message we heard from Jesus and now declare to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him at all." (1 John 1:5)
"For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
"You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" (James 2:20)
"As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." (James 2:17)
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)

Holiness or Hell. God's command to His people!

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