APOSTASY: WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT ISN'T

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revturmoil

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Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

There are several extensive web sites like "Apostasy in the church and false doctrines of men," by Don Koenig, that attribute the apostasy of 2 Thes.2 to the church and claim that a fallen or 'apostate' church is the prophesied evil religion of the last days. There's not one verse or reason to believe that.

Christianity is the only religion that has a different definition of apostasy and the purpose of this page is to explain why.

Look at how different the Christian definition is compared to Islam.

Apostasy - (noun)

1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.

2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.

3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.

4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.

5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

In many countries of the world and especially in Islam, all you have to do is say is, "I believe Jesus is my Savior" or convert to Christianity or any other religion and you could die. In Christianity an apostate is believed to be a heretic, backslidden, or lukewarm which is incorrect and I'l expalin why that definition has been accepted. What's also disturbing is that they attribute this apostasy to the church which implies that Christians will accept the man of sin. Most of the experts call the harlot of Revelation 17 "the apostate church" and I could make the case that that's blasphemy.

The words 'falling away' in 2 Thes. 2:3 are a poor translation of the word apostasia and the only place it's translated "falling away." It's actually the word 'forsake' and pertains to something about the man of sin and not the church. Read the entire passage and notice there's not one reason to associate the apostasy with the church.

To understand how the word apostasy is used look at Acts 21:21. The only other place where the word apostasia translated 'forsake' is used.

Luke is telling the Jews to "forsake' (apostasia/abandon) the law of Moses and accept the new covenant. To forsake is the correct meaning of the word.

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

The reason why the church has accepted a different definition is because they associated the falling away with other similar verses which use a completely different word than apostasia.

In 1 Tim 4 the words "fall away" are used but that's not the word 'apostasia.' The word aphistemi is used and it means something totally different.

1Tim 4

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,......

The KJV uses the words "shall depart from" the faith.

Another verse that misleads them is Mathew 24 where again the word apostasy isn't used and neither is 'fall away' used in the KJV.

Matt 24

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The KJV reads. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

The word apostasia isn't used in 1John 2:18-19 but this is a verse they use to explain apostasy and the church accepting the man of sin.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

The words fall away in the following verses are not the apostasia either!

In Luke 8:13 fall away is used. It's the word 'aphistemi' and not associated with apostasia.

They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.(aphistemi)

Hebrews 6:6 is another place fall away or 'parapipto' is used and not associated with apostasia.

If they shall fall away, (parapipto) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

The word apostasia comes from a word whose root meaning is a divorce. It isn't being lukewarm, backsliden, or a heretic or the spiritual condition of a church or lack of devotion of an individual. It is not false doctrine or heresy and will have nothing to do with the end-time church. Verses 3-9 are all about the man of sin, what he's like and what brings him to power...which is an apostasy! So don't fall for the phrase, "the apostate church" or fall for the blasphemous lie that the harlot of Revelation 17 is the so called "apostate church!"

For a Christian to be an apostate, he must renounce Christianity, disolve his union with God, and accept another religion.

Apostasy is also described in the Old Testament with Esau and Ishmael. They were opposed the true God of Israel and went into other directions. It's no surprise that they are the fathers of todays Arab's dominated by the oppressive religion of Islam.

Bakers dictionary of theology. (Emphasis is mine)

Apostasy

A word of increasing interest found twice in the NT. (Acts 21:21; 2Thes. 2:3 It comes from the Greek apostasia a late form of apostasis, originally to desert a post or station in life. It is used of Plutarch of political revolt and is found in the OT in the sense of revolt against the Lord. (Josh. 22:22)

Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

In the AV it is translated "falling away" in relation to the man of sin or antichrist. In this sense the thought is of religious revolt. Cremer states that apostasia is used in the absolute sense of "passing over to unbelief," thus a dissolution of the "union of God subsisting through Christ." Amdt adds rebellion or abandonment in the religious sense. On the nature of apostasy there are lengthy articles in both the JewEnc and the CE developing an extensive doctrine of apostasy.

In the NT. 2 Thes 2:3 is part of a prophetic passage of apocalyptic character. The falling away invites conjecture about whom and from what. The event seems future and thus related to antichrist. The implication is that the apostates will welcome the man of sin. Entire kingdoms have gone into apostasy when it's ruler or king called for one. And it was always to change the "national religion." Antiochus enforced an apostasy from Judaism to Hellenism.

Here is a list of apostates that have gone from one religion to another.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Apostasy (Greek, apo, "away, apart", stasis, "standing") is the formal renunciation of one's religion.

Noted apostates

This is a list of notable persons that have followed a religion and then publicly abandoned or publicly criticized it and attracted notable attention by this defection, or had a notable influence on society with their defection; or if the person has been notably been referred to as an apostate by other groups or people regardless whether the person accepts this label or not.

Ambedkar an ex-Hindu who became a Buddhist

Karen Armstrong ex-Roman Catholic nun who became an atheist

Julian the Apostate ex-Christian and Roman emperor

Aurelius Augustine (Augustine of Hippo) Former adherent of Manicheism who converted to Christianity and criticized Manicheism in his book called Confessions, though generally not labelled as an apostate because the term is originally used for people who leave Christianity, not for people who convert to it

Marjoe Gortner ex-Christian

Ayaan Hirsi Ali ex-Muslim

Maria Monk Sometimes considered an apostate, though little evidence exists that she ever belonged to the religion she supposedly fled

Taslima Nasrin born in a Muslim family who became an atheist

Friedrich Nietzsche grew up in a Lutheran family and became a confirmed Christian in his teens but later became a staunch atheist

Salman Rushdie Accused of being an apostate of Islam by Ruhollah Khomeini due to the publication of his book The Satanic Verses

Baruch Spinoza excommunicated from the Jewish community

Ibn Warraq ex-Muslim

The rebellion or revolt that's taking place in the Arab Islamic world could very well be the apostasy prophecied in 2 Thessalonians. It's a political revolt that results into fallen dictators who are the fallen kings mentioned in Revelation 17:10. The religious revolt is the end-time radicalization of the Muslim world who want a regional Islamic Caliphate. This apostasy (currently passing) will result in a power vacumn in the Arab/Islamic world creating the perfect conditions for the entry and revelation of the man of sin. The common people in the Arab world want political restructure and religious unification. They want one currency and less borders. Sound familiar?


When Assad falls things could go real bad real fast. He may launch his weapons toward Israel knowing he has nothing to lose. Widespread chaos is coming in the region because the Mahdi is said to return in 2013 during a time the region is in complete chaos. Islam is self-fulling prophecy and because of this I believe this year we will see the beginning of tribulation. This is only my opinion. When Syria goes down there will a major struggle for dominance of the country as it is the hub of Islamic terrorism in the region. And several others will fight for dominance of the entire region.

Hasan A. Yahya, the Dean of Arab Writers in North America said,

"This article calls for wider scope of protest and revolutions in the Arab countries, otherwise, these revolutions and protests are incomplet and misguided. In his opinion, the revolution may satisfy one country, it does not satisfy all Arabs who aspire for unity, one currency, one economy, and one flag that covers a land with no borders between."

Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/philosophy-articles/a-new-definition-of-apostasy-and-heretics-sociological-analysis-1387803.html#ixzz1EcNgMQnk


The current condition in the Middle-East is related to the topic of apostasy since I believe that's what's currently taking place. It has and is causing dictators who have been in power for decades to fall in rapid succession. The rebels want a whole lot of things that align with bible prophecy. Kings that have already fallen from the current apostasy could be these..

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

I know the church has traditionally taught that this beast depicts a progression of world empires starting with Egypt that would lead up to the final empire of the beast. I have never accepted this view. I see this beast as a complete end-time entity and believe the creation of this beast is apostasy in motion today.

FIVE ARE FALLEN.

The word are is a third person plural present indicative.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1526&t=KJV

These may be some of the "are fallen" ones.

Hosni Mubarak---------------Egypt

Moammar Gadhafi-----------Lybia

Ben Ali--------------------------Tunsinia

Ali Abdullah Saleh------------Yemen

(Saddam)

These five have already fallen. I think they are the 5 mentioned in Rev. 17.10.

And one is...

This could be Assad of Syria.

The two scariest heads on the beast are, soon to fall Bashar Al-Assad of Syria, and soon to welcome the Mahdi, Ahmadinejad of Iran.

I think the fall of Saddam, who believed he was the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar, is one of the heads on the seven headed, ten horned beast....the first one and the last one. (the eighth) That's another topic.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The 10 kings mentioned in verse 12 seem to either replace the fallen ones of verse 10. Some possibilities are Abdullah Gul of Turkey, Amadinejad of Iran, Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, Talabani of Iraq, Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan, Abdullah of Jordan, Mohamed Morsi> Egypt, Mohammed Yusuf Magariaf >Yemen, Moncef Marzouki >Tunisia,

But it seems everybody is waiting for a rapture, a global dictator, and a one world religion.

When the next 9-11 comes the only admonition the jihadist have for the world is, "brace yourself."
 

Guestman

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Jesus foretold that true Christianity that he established and went into operation on Pentecost 33 C.E., would apostasize or fall away. The word apostasy comes from the Greek apostasia and is used at 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (as well as apostasian at Acts 21:21) means "a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible from the true religion."(Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of New Testament, pg 67) Though the Greek apostasia can also have the meaning to ' draw off ' in a political sense, as at Acts 5:37 and in the Greek Septuagint at Genesis 14:4, it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true worship of God.

At Matthew 13, Jesus gave an illustration to show this, for at verses 24-30, he says that "the kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat."(Verses 24, 25) What did Jesus mean by this, that a "man....sowed fine seed in his field" ? At Matthew 13:36-43, Jesus provides an explanation, saying: "The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; as for the fine seed these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil."

Thus, Jesus is the "sower of the fine seed" by establishing true Christianity and that came into existence with the outpouring of holy spirit on Pentecost 33 C.E. However, Jesus foretold that "an enemy", whom he identified as "the Devil" or Satan, would plant "weeds" in among the "wheat". These "weeds" or counterfeit Christians are placed with the "wheat" or genuine Christians. However, the "weeds" or apostate Christians would now begin to grow and proliferate, so that over time, the "weeds" became far more numerous than the "wheat".

How did this occur ? Jesus said that "while men were sleeping", or after the death of the apostles, with the last apostle John dying around 100 C.E., that counterfeit Christians really began to grow. At 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostle Paul noted that this apostasy was hindered while the apostles were alive, saying that "now you know the thing that acts as a restraint (the apostles), with a view to his being being revealed (those who are leading this apostasy, Christendom's religious leaders, "the man of lawlessness", verse 4) in his own due time."

Paul further said that "the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work (only some 20 years after the establishment of Christianity); but only till he who is acting as a restraint (the apostles) gets to be out of the way (or after their death)."(2 Thess 2:7) Even while alive, there were those who were "weeds" that had infiltrated the Christian congregation, for Paul told the Ephesian "older men" an about 56 C.E. that "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."(Acts 20:29, 30)

Hence, the planting of "weeds" or false Christians had already begun before the apostles died, but began to gain strength after their death and eventually overtook the "wheat" or genuine Christians so that over the course of 1800 years, the "weeds" almost completely choked out true Christians.

However, Jesus also foretold that there would be separating work done by angels "in the conclusion of the system of things".(Matt 13:40, 41) At this time, of which we are living, the "weeds" are being exposed as false or counterfeit Christians by the "wheat" or genuine Christians. This gives sincere honest-hearted ones an opportunity to see for themselves who are truly following Jesus and those who are pretenders.(Matt 7:21-23)
 

revturmoil

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What you are doing is exactly what everyone else is doing. You associate the word apostasia with the word aphistemi and parapipto. They are totally different words that have completely different meanings and are used in completely different contexts. The best way to see how apostasia is used is to look at Acts 21:21 because that's the only other place the word is used in the NT.

ALSO! 2 Thes. 2 is saying that the day of Christ will not come until an apostasia occurs and then the man of sin is revealed. This by no means implies that Christians are part of this apostasy or that it has anything to do with heresy or the spiritual condition of the believer. It does imply that it has something to do with the man of sin.

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Though the Greek apostasia can also have the meaning to ' draw off ' in a political sense, as at Acts 5:37
That's not the word apostasia. It's the word 'aphistemi'! It means to withdraw. "Falling away" is a poor translation of the word apostasia. Don't let the English translation of the word fool you!
If the church was implied in 2 thes 2, and the word apostasy was intended to imply Christians falling away from truth, then the word apostasia would have been used in other verses and in the context that you describe...BUT IT ISN"T!
In Acts 20:30 the word apostasia isn't used. It's the word 'apospao' or 'tear away' is used. Not 'apostasia' or forsake'! It's similar in that apostasy means to forsake, divorce, and abandone. And to go from one thing to another. Apospao comes from two words one meaning to separate. The other to draw. i.e. to draw into separation. It is a different word than apostasia, but closer in meaning altogether than aphistemi and parapipto.

Even if the word apostasia meant what you say it does. It makes no sense to me why 'heresy' would be the catalyst that empowers the emergence of the man of sin.
 

Guestman

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If you were to trace the root meaning of apostasy, it can be found that the Greek word apostasia (G646, meaning "a falling away, defection, apostasy", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 67) is the feminine form of apostasion (G647) at Matthew 19:7 that is rendered as "divorce" and means literally as "defection; divorce, repudiation", which in turn, is a derivative neuter of the adjective aphistemi (G868), as seen at Luke 13:27.and literally means "to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove, excite to revolt."(Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 89)

Thus, at 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostle Paul brought to our attention that there would be a ' falling away' or apostasizing from the truth of the Bible, even naming three who did, Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus.(1 Tim 1, 19, 20; 2 Tim 2:16-19)

In his 1st letter to Timothy in about 61 C.E., Paul says that "the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time, some will fall away ("fall away", Greek apostesontai and from the lemma Greek word aphistemi) from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth."(1 Tim 4:1-3)

A few years later, Paul again wrote to Timothy, telling him that "there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled, and they will turn their ears away (Greek apostrepsousin, meaning "to turn away", G654) from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories."(2 Tim 4:3, 4)

Hence, even while the apostles were alive, apostasy was already forming. But with the death of the last apostle, John in about 100 C.E., there was no one to stem the tide of apostates from taking over the Christian congregation. Just about 10 years after John died, Ignatius, "bishop" of Alexandria, started the thought of a clergy-laity class, giving the Greek word episkopos ("overseer", 1 Tim 3:1) as having more authority than the equal meaning Greek word presbyteros ("older men", Acts 20:17).

Within a period of less than 300 years, the "wheat" field of true Christianity was overrun with apostate Christians or "weeds" that Jesus said would happen.(Matt 13:24-30, 36-43) However, during the "conclusion of the system of things", the time period since Jesus installment as king of God's kingdom in 1914, the "wheat" or genuine Christians would "shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."(Matt 13:43)

True Christianity would now be reestablished, with "the mountain of the house of Jehovah...becoming firmly established above the top of the mountains.....And many nations will certainly go and say: "Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah.....and he will instruct us about his ways....And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Micah 4:1-3)

Shortly, the apostate Christians will be dealt with, whereby the "weeds are collected and burned in the fire."(Matt 13:40)
 

revturmoil

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Thus, at 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostle Paul brought to our attention that there would be a ' falling away' or apostasizing from the truth of the Bible, even naming three who did, Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus.(1 Tim 1, 19, 20; 2 Tim 2:16-19)
1 Tim 1, 19, 20 and 2 Tim. 2: 16-19 have nothing to do with apostasia.

What does 'truth' have to do with 2 Thes. 2? Where is 'truth' implied in the passage? And how and why would a defection from biblical truth be what withholds the man of sin? And why would heresy be the catalyst that empowers his emergence? But the big question is where do you find a defection of truth in 2 Thes. 2? It's just not there! There has been heresy in the church since it's infancy. The reason why you and the others believe it's there is because you associate the word apostasia with aphistemi, parapito, and apospao. A defection from truth isn't an abandonment or divorce of Christianity...or anything else. To apostasize means to abandon one thing and move on to something else or to go from one thing to another. A divorce means to completely break off or completely abandon what was and move on to something else.

Within a period of less than 300 years, the "wheat" field of true Christianity was overrun with apostate Christians or "weeds"
The tares have nothing to do with apostasy because they are still within the church. False teachers, false prophets, heresey, being divisive, or being lukewarm have nothing to do with apostasy!

You can't be an apostate and remain in the same organization. Apostasia is an abandonment of one political party or religion and acceptance of another...or nothing at all. Just like the list of apostates I posted in the OP. They all went from one thing to another. In order for a Christian be an apostate he must completely abandon Christianity and move on to something else.

Apostasia means to abandon, divorce, and to defect to something else. A divorce or 'apostasia' (or an apostate husband) doesn't mean to remain married and be unfaithful by having another lover etc. It means to leave what once was (your wife) and accept someone else....or nothing at all! A good example...
Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

We, as well as every church, have some false docttrine in our beliefs. Anyone who believes they have all the truth is misled. In that sense, and in the way you believe apostasia, every church is apostate!

Only Christianity has the incorrect understanding of apostasy...and that's the way the devil wants it!

Apostasy also implies a revolt or rebellion which is often the case when masses of people abandon one cause and accept another. That's especially true in the Arab/Islamic world and that's what's occuring there as we speak.

Paul was able to rejoice even though some were not preaching Christ in total truth.

Philippians 1:14  And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

15  Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

16  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

19  For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
 

revturmoil

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Apostasy - (noun)

1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.

You can't abandon something and still remain in it.

2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.

See it? Reject one thing...and favor another!

3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.

NEED I SAY MORE!

4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.

Much more accurate a definition than Christianity's!

5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

Absolutely not the correct definition. It's based on the other verses with the words fall away and fallen away (aphistemi and parapipto) which aren't the word 'APOSTASY'!

Let me highlight a few quotes from Bakers Dictionary of Theology.

A word of increasing interest found twice in the NT. (Acts 21:21; 2Thes. 2:3 It comes from the Greek apostasia a late form of apostasis, originally to desert a post or station in life.

To desert isn't simply going awol. It means "see ya later" ...to abandon (a person, cause, or organization)

You can't remain in a church or continue being a Christian if you "desert Christianity.

It is used of Plutarch of political revolt...
The apostasy has nothing to do with the church. Bakers' or 2 Thes. 2 doesn't mention a defection from truth! It implies more of a revolt and rebellion just like we see going on in the Arab/Islamic world where it is both political and religious!

Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

NOTICE! From something...to something else!

In the AV it is translated "falling away" in relation to the man of sin or antichrist. In this sense the thought is of religious revolt.

Religious revolt! Not a defection from truth! Involves the man of sin...NOT THE CHURCH!

Cremer states that apostasia is used in the absolute sense of "passing over to unbelief," thus a dissolution of the "union of God subsisting through Christ."
From belief...to UN-belief!

"YOU CAN'T BE AN APOSTATE CHRISTIAN AND REMAIN IN THE CHURCH!

Amdt adds rebellion or abandonment in the religious sense.

Abandonment means to give up something. It doesn't imply giving up truth. It implies giving up Christianity!

In the NT. 2 Thes 2:3 is part of a prophetic passage of apocalyptic character. The falling away invites conjecture about whom and from what.

Notice! 'About someone and from something'.

The event seems future and thus related to antichrist. The implication is that the apostates will welcome the man of sin.

NOTICE! Related to the anti-christ! Not the Church and not a defection from truth! The Church will not welcome the man of sin like many people teach!

When someone gets a divorce, which is the root word for apostasy, you are no longer married. So if a Christian is an apostate he is no longer a member of the body (bride) of Christ!
 

ENOCH2010

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I have a theory about what the apostasy could be. A lot of the pre-tribbers will turn away from the church when they realize that they aren't going to be raptured to heaven before the tribulation. I fear they will be very confused,or angry,or even be in the number that blasphemes God for the things they will be ask to endure. They believe with all their heart that God is going to remove them from this Earth before the tribulation starts. Their disappointment is going to be painful for them.
 

Guestman

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kaoticprofit said:
1 Tim 1, 19, 20 and 2 Tim. 2: 16-19 have nothing to do with apostasia.

What does 'truth' have to do with 2 Thes. 2? Where is 'truth' implied in the passage? And how and why would a defection from biblical truth be what withholds the man of sin? And why would heresy be the catalyst that empowers his emergence? But the big question is where do you find a defection of truth in 2 Thes. 2? It's just not there! There has been heresy in the church since it's infancy. The reason why you and the others believe it's there is because you associate the word apostasia with aphistemi, parapito, and apospao. A defection from truth isn't an abandonment or divorce of Christianity...or anything else. To apostasize means to abandon one thing and move on to something else or to go from one thing to another. A divorce means to completely break off or completely abandon what was and move on to something else.


The tares have nothing to do with apostasy because they are still within the church. False teachers, false prophets, heresey, being divisive, or being lukewarm have nothing to do with apostasy!

You can't be an apostate and remain in the same organization. Apostasia is an abandonment of one political party or religion and acceptance of another...or nothing at all. Just like the list of apostates I posted in the OP. They all went from one thing to another. In order for a Christian be an apostate he must completely abandon Christianity and move on to something else.

Apostasia means to abandon, divorce, and to defect to something else. A divorce or 'apostasia' (or an apostate husband) doesn't mean to remain married and be unfaithful by having another lover etc. It means to leave what once was (your wife) and accept someone else....or nothing at all! A good example...
Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

We, as well as every church, have some false docttrine in our beliefs. Anyone who believes they have all the truth is misled. In that sense, and in the way you believe apostasia, every church is apostate!

Only Christianity has the incorrect understanding of apostasy...and that's the way the devil wants it!

Apostasy also implies a revolt or rebellion which is often the case when masses of people abandon one cause and accept another. That's especially true in the Arab/Islamic world and that's what's occuring there as we speak.

Paul was able to rejoice even though some were not preaching Christ in total truth.

Philippians 1:14  And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

15  Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

16  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

19  For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
1 Timothy 1:19, 20 and 2 Timothy 2:16-19 have everything to do with apostasy. Apparently, you have not grasped what "the truth" is, the complete body of accurate knowledge as found in the Bible. Nor have you accepted what Greek lexicons have established as to the meaning of apostasia ("a defection....from the true religion", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 67), but have set forth your own personal opinion.

It is because of this reasoning that individuals cannot find out what is "the truth", which teaches that Jehovah God is "one Jehovah" (Deut 6:4), not three persons in a Godhead, that the soul is mortal (Eze 18:4), not immortal as taught by Greek philosophers (such as Plato) long before Jesus set foot on the earth, that the dead are "dead", "not conscious of anything"(Ecc 9:5, 6) and thus not tormented in a "hellfire".(Matt 10:28)

The apostle Paul gave details of how apostasy would build up, to the point that a "man of lawlessness" would come into existence. This "man of lawlessness", the religious clergy of Christendom, have done exactly as Paul was inspired to explain. These have ' lifted himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god."(2 Thess 2:4) These have pushed the titles of "Reverend", Monsignor ("my Lord"), Cardinal, Archbishop, Pope, etc.

Cyprian (200 ?-258 C.E.) extended on the original thought promoted by Ignatius around 110 C.E. of a clergy-laity class. He was a strong advocate of the authority of bishops (Greek episkopos) - as a group separate from the presbyters (later known as priests, in which the English word is derived from presbyteros or "older men"), the "deacons" (Greek diakonos or literally "servant or minister"), and the laity (from Latin meaning "secular").

At Matthew 13:24-30, in the illustration of "wheat and weeds", Jesus clearly noted that "weeds" or apostate Christians, would begin to flourish "while men were sleeping" or after the death of the apostles. These would overrun the "wheat" or genuine Christians in centuries following their deaths.

Thus, the apostles made note of this, even while they were alive, with saying that "there came to be false prophets among the people, as there will be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them (Jesus Christ)....Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively."(2 Pet 2:1, 2)

Peter also wrote that these ones will "exploit you with counterfeit words."(2 Pet 2:3) He then explains that there are those who once knew "the path of righteousness" but deviated from it, with Peter now saying: "The saying of the proverb has happened to them: "The dog has returned to its vomit and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire."(2 Pet 2:21, 22)

Hence, after "the thing that acts as a restraint" to apostasy (2 Thess 2:6), the apostles that eventually died, the door was now open for "weeds" or counterfeit Christians to grow abundantly. These came from within the Christian congregation.(Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Pet 2:1) However, at the "harvest" time, our time period since 1914, the "weeds" would be exposed as counterfeit and sincere individuals would then leave this false religious organization and become "wheat" or a genuine Christian.(Matt 13:30) Jesus would now see to it that the "weeds" are "burned with fire."(Matt 13:40)
 

revturmoil

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1 Timothy 1:19, 20 and 2 Timothy 2:16-19 have everything to do with apostasy. Apparently, you have not grasped what "the truth" is, the complete body of accurate knowledge as found in the Bible. Nor have you accepted what Greek lexicons have established as to the meaning of apostasia ("a defection....from the true religion", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 67), but have set forth your own personal opinion.
1 Timothy 1:19  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

And 2 Tim. 2:16-19

2 Timothy 2:16-19.  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19  ¶Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

You are really mistaken to believe that this has something to do with apostasy. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. The word apostasy isn't used in those passages.

The only other place apostasy is used is in Acts 21:21. It's the word forsake, which comes from the root word divorce and the only place we can go to see how the word is used.

It is a defection from true religion (and acceptance of another) and I accept what the word 'defect' means. Do you?

1.
withdrawing support or help despite allegiance or responsibility

2. the state of having rejected your religious beliefs or your political party or a cause (often in favor of opposing beliefs or causes)

When you reject something you are no longer a part of it. All the words that describe apostasy imply a complete abandonment of ones former religion or political party. Most also imply the acceptance of something else. Just like all the apostates listed in the OP.

You can't abandon, divorce, defect, or apostasize from something and still be a part of it.


It is because of this reasoning that individuals cannot find out what is "the truth", which teaches that Jehovah God is "one Jehovah" (Deut 6:4), not three persons in a Godhead, that the soul is mortal (Eze 18:4), not immortal as taught by Greek philosophers (such as Plato) long before Jesus set foot on the earth, that the dead are "dead", "not conscious of anything"(Ecc 9:5, 6) and thus not tormented in a "hellfire".(Matt 10:28)
We've had a civil debate up to now. Don't go off onto the arrogant attitude that you have the truth and I don't.

The apostle Paul gave details of how apostasy would build up, to the point that a "man of lawlessness" would come into existence. This "man of lawlessness", the religious clergy of Christendom, have done exactly as Paul was inspired to explain. These have ' lifted himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god."(2 Thess 2:4) These have pushed the titles of "Reverend", Monsignor ("my Lord"), Cardinal, Archbishop, Pope, etc.
We Catholics do not oppose God. We actually honor Him more than most Protestants! You've been indoctrinated into the Catholic bashing hall of fame!

2 Thessalonians 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That verse has nothing to do with Christianity. But with your method of interpretation, you can make it say whatever you want.

The man of lawlessness has nothing to do with apostasy in the clergy and there's not one verse you can quote to support that false assumption. I'm a Catholic and I'm not anti-christ and we Catholics do not deny Christ. You need to dump your pride, unforgiveness, slanderous beliefs and accusations, and repent of your pre-conceived ideas. You also need help with interpretation.

At Matthew 13:24-30, in the illustration of "wheat and weeds", Jesus clearly noted that "weeds" or apostate Christians, would begin to flourish "while men were sleeping" or after the death of the apostles. These would overrun the "wheat" or genuine Christians in centuries following their deaths.
The word apostasy isn't used there and it's fabrication to say that it is. It's purely your assumption, and is in complete error, that the tares (or weeds which is an incorrect interpretation) are symbolic of apostates. However, If you really like mis-interpreting God's Word and slandering the church...HAVE AT IT!

Peter also wrote that these ones will "exploit you with counterfeit words."(2 Pet 2:3) He then explains that there are those who once knew "the path of righteousness" but deviated from it, with Peter now saying: "The saying of the proverb has happened to them: "The dog has returned to its vomit and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire."(2 Pet 2:21, 22)
You're going off into all sorts of directions that have nothing to do with apostasy! Typical of people who just can't change their minds or are willing to consider other views to see the truth.

Hence, after "the thing that acts as a restraint" to apostasy (2 Thess 2:6), the apostles that eventually died, the door was now open for "weeds" or counterfeit Christians to grow abundantly. These came from within the Christian congregation.(Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Pet 2:1) However, at the "harvest" time, our time period since 1914, the "weeds" would be exposed as counterfeit and sincere individuals would then leave this false religious organization and become "wheat" or a genuine Christian.(Matt 13:30) Jesus would now see to it that the "weeds" are "burned with fire."(Matt 13:40)
That's nothing but an absolute unfounded fabricated mess that does nothing to explain what true apostasy is.

Good luck in your biased studies that do nothing but bad-mouth Christianity and the Church!
 

Axehead

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I think the "falling away" has been happening ever since the 1st century. There is a falling away from the faith in every century and there is tribulation in every century. As one poster (Graceismine) said, 200 million people (I think it is more) are experiencing persecution (tribulation), now.

Corrie Ten Boom said many "fell away" in China when the rapture doctrine they were taught did not come to fruition when Mao Tse Tung began to persecute and kill many in the Church.

Have we made the falling away, too complicated?
 

veteran

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It's ignorance to try and separate the mere idea of Paul's 'falling away' from the other Scriptures he gave it in context with...


II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)


Paul isn't speaking of a long term apostasy over time, he's associating the idea with that false one there and what he's to do in tricking many brethren into believing the lie that he is God having come.

This is why Paul uses an idea such as "strong delusion" in 2 Thess.2:11 ("delusion" = Greek 'plane', which is directly associated with the concept of falling away, or apostasy from the truth).

We were given this Message of warning first by our Lord Jesus in Matt.24:23-26, and then again through John in Rev.13:11 forward.

So really, I don't see any excuse for those who are attempting to get away from this Message that Paul is repeating. Paul also covered a little of it in 2 Corinthians 11 about the "another Jesus", and how Satan disguises (transforms per the Greek) himself into an angel of light, and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness.

This Scripture warning is one of the most important Messages of our times, because the events in the world are aligning today in order to bring this event of "strong delusion" to pass, with the coming of a pseudo-Christ to sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, and play God, while setting up the "abomination of desolation" idol per the Book of Daniel.
 

12jtartar

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kaoticprofit said:
Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

There are several extensive web sites like "Apostasy in the church and false doctrines of men," by Don Koenig, that attribute the apostasy of 2 Thes.2 to the church and claim that a fallen or 'apostate' church is the prophesied evil religion of the last days. There's not one verse or reason to believe that.

Christianity is the only religion that has a different definition of apostasy and the purpose of this page is to explain why.

Look at how different the Christian definition is compared to Islam.

Apostasy - (noun)

1. The act of abandoning a party or cause.

2. The state of having rejected your religious beliefs, political party, cause or sports team in favor of opposing beliefs, causes or teams.

3. A defection, renunciation, disaffiliation, abandonment or revolt from a previous association.

4. (Islamic definition) Rejection in word or deed of one's former religion.

5. (Christian definition) To fall away from the truth.

In many countries of the world and especially in Islam, all you have to do is say is, "I believe Jesus is my Savior" or convert to Christianity or any other religion and you could die. In Christianity an apostate is believed to be a heretic, backslidden, or lukewarm which is incorrect and I'l expalin why that definition has been accepted. What's also disturbing is that they attribute this apostasy to the church which implies that Christians will accept the man of sin. Most of the experts call the harlot of Revelation 17 "the apostate church" and I could make the case that that's blasphemy.

The words 'falling away' in 2 Thes. 2:3 are a poor translation of the word apostasia and the only place it's translated "falling away." It's actually the word 'forsake' and pertains to something about the man of sin and not the church. Read the entire passage and notice there's not one reason to associate the apostasy with the church.

To understand how the word apostasy is used look at Acts 21:21. The only other place where the word apostasia translated 'forsake' is used.

Luke is telling the Jews to "forsake' (apostasia/abandon) the law of Moses and accept the new covenant. To forsake is the correct meaning of the word.

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

The reason why the church has accepted a different definition is because they associated the falling away with other similar verses which use a completely different word than apostasia.

In 1 Tim 4 the words "fall away" are used but that's not the word 'apostasia.' The word aphistemi is used and it means something totally different.

1Tim 4

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,......

The KJV uses the words "shall depart from" the faith.

Another verse that misleads them is Mathew 24 where again the word apostasy isn't used and neither is 'fall away' used in the KJV.

Matt 24

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The KJV reads. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

The word apostasia isn't used in 1John 2:18-19 but this is a verse they use to explain apostasy and the church accepting the man of sin.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

The words fall away in the following verses are not the apostasia either!

In Luke 8:13 fall away is used. It's the word 'aphistemi' and not associated with apostasia.

They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.(aphistemi)

Hebrews 6:6 is another place fall away or 'parapipto' is used and not associated with apostasia.

If they shall fall away, (parapipto) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

The word apostasia comes from a word whose root meaning is a divorce. It isn't being lukewarm, backsliden, or a heretic or the spiritual condition of a church or lack of devotion of an individual. It is not false doctrine or heresy and will have nothing to do with the end-time church. Verses 3-9 are all about the man of sin, what he's like and what brings him to power...which is an apostasy! So don't fall for the phrase, "the apostate church" or fall for the blasphemous lie that the harlot of Revelation 17 is the so called "apostate church!"

For a Christian to be an apostate, he must renounce Christianity, disolve his union with God, and accept another religion.

Apostasy is also described in the Old Testament with Esau and Ishmael. They were opposed the true God of Israel and went into other directions. It's no surprise that they are the fathers of todays Arab's dominated by the oppressive religion of Islam.

Bakers dictionary of theology. (Emphasis is mine)

Apostasy

A word of increasing interest found twice in the NT. (Acts 21:21; 2Thes. 2:3 It comes from the Greek apostasia a late form of apostasis, originally to desert a post or station in life. It is used of Plutarch of political revolt and is found in the OT in the sense of revolt against the Lord. (Josh. 22:22)

Antiochus Epiphanes enforced an apostasia from Judaism to Hellenism (1 Macc 2:15)

In the AV it is translated "falling away" in relation to the man of sin or antichrist. In this sense the thought is of religious revolt. Cremer states that apostasia is used in the absolute sense of "passing over to unbelief," thus a dissolution of the "union of God subsisting through Christ." Amdt adds rebellion or abandonment in the religious sense. On the nature of apostasy there are lengthy articles in both the JewEnc and the CE developing an extensive doctrine of apostasy.

In the NT. 2 Thes 2:3 is part of a prophetic passage of apocalyptic character. The falling away invites conjecture about whom and from what. The event seems future and thus related to antichrist. The implication is that the apostates will welcome the man of sin. Entire kingdoms have gone into apostasy when it's ruler or king called for one. And it was always to change the "national religion." Antiochus enforced an apostasy from Judaism to Hellenism.

Here is a list of apostates that have gone from one religion to another.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Apostasy (Greek, apo, "away, apart", stasis, "standing") is the formal renunciation of one's religion.

Noted apostates

This is a list of notable persons that have followed a religion and then publicly abandoned or publicly criticized it and attracted notable attention by this defection, or had a notable influence on society with their defection; or if the person has been notably been referred to as an apostate by other groups or people regardless whether the person accepts this label or not.

Ambedkar an ex-Hindu who became a Buddhist

Karen Armstrong ex-Roman Catholic nun who became an atheist

Julian the Apostate ex-Christian and Roman emperor

Aurelius Augustine (Augustine of Hippo) Former adherent of Manicheism who converted to Christianity and criticized Manicheism in his book called Confessions, though generally not labelled as an apostate because the term is originally used for people who leave Christianity, not for people who convert to it

Marjoe Gortner ex-Christian

Ayaan Hirsi Ali ex-Muslim

Maria Monk Sometimes considered an apostate, though little evidence exists that she ever belonged to the religion she supposedly fled

Taslima Nasrin born in a Muslim family who became an atheist

Friedrich Nietzsche grew up in a Lutheran family and became a confirmed Christian in his teens but later became a staunch atheist

Salman Rushdie Accused of being an apostate of Islam by Ruhollah Khomeini due to the publication of his book The Satanic Verses

Baruch Spinoza excommunicated from the Jewish community

Ibn Warraq ex-Muslim

The rebellion or revolt that's taking place in the Arab Islamic world could very well be the apostasy prophecied in 2 Thessalonians. It's a political revolt that results into fallen dictators who are the fallen kings mentioned in Revelation 17:10. The religious revolt is the end-time radicalization of the Muslim world who want a regional Islamic Caliphate. This apostasy (currently passing) will result in a power vacumn in the Arab/Islamic world creating the perfect conditions for the entry and revelation of the man of sin. The common people in the Arab world want political restructure and religious unification. They want one currency and less borders. Sound familiar?


When Assad falls things could go real bad real fast. He may launch his weapons toward Israel knowing he has nothing to lose. Widespread chaos is coming in the region because the Mahdi is said to return in 2013 during a time the region is in complete chaos. Islam is self-fulling prophecy and because of this I believe this year we will see the beginning of tribulation. This is only my opinion. When Syria goes down there will a major struggle for dominance of the country as it is the hub of Islamic terrorism in the region. And several others will fight for dominance of the entire region.

Hasan A. Yahya, the Dean of Arab Writers in North America said,

"This article calls for wider scope of protest and revolutions in the Arab countries, otherwise, these revolutions and protests are incomplet and misguided. In his opinion, the revolution may satisfy one country, it does not satisfy all Arabs who aspire for unity, one currency, one economy, and one flag that covers a land with no borders between."

Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/philosophy-articles/a-new-definition-of-apostasy-and-heretics-sociological-analysis-1387803.html#ixzz1EcNgMQnk


The current condition in the Middle-East is related to the topic of apostasy since I believe that's what's currently taking place. It has and is causing dictators who have been in power for decades to fall in rapid succession. The rebels want a whole lot of things that align with bible prophecy. Kings that have already fallen from the current apostasy could be these..

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

I know the church has traditionally taught that this beast depicts a progression of world empires starting with Egypt that would lead up to the final empire of the beast. I have never accepted this view. I see this beast as a complete end-time entity and believe the creation of this beast is apostasy in motion today.

FIVE ARE FALLEN.

The word are is a third person plural present indicative.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1526&t=KJV

These may be some of the "are fallen" ones.

Hosni Mubarak---------------Egypt

Moammar Gadhafi-----------Lybia

Ben Ali--------------------------Tunsinia

Ali Abdullah Saleh------------Yemen

(Saddam)

These five have already fallen. I think they are the 5 mentioned in Rev. 17.10.

And one is...

This could be Assad of Syria.

The two scariest heads on the beast are, soon to fall Bashar Al-Assad of Syria, and soon to welcome the Mahdi, Ahmadinejad of Iran.

I think the fall of Saddam, who believed he was the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar, is one of the heads on the seven headed, ten horned beast....the first one and the last one. (the eighth) That's another topic.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The 10 kings mentioned in verse 12 seem to either replace the fallen ones of verse 10. Some possibilities are Abdullah Gul of Turkey, Amadinejad of Iran, Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, Talabani of Iraq, Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan, Abdullah of Jordan, Mohamed Morsi> Egypt, Mohammed Yusuf Magariaf >Yemen, Moncef Marzouki >Tunisia,

But it seems everybody is waiting for a rapture, a global dictator, and a one world religion.

When the next 9-11 comes the only admonition the jihadist have for the world is, "brace yourself."
Kaoticprofit,
As for your proof of apostasy, you are correct as far as I can tell. The word has roots in being divorced, which would mean to be separated from your belief.
The Beast is another thing. I cannot evenimagine where you ideas have come from. Have you never read what God had written in Daniel for our clarification?? Consider Dan 7:1-8 where we are told of four beasts and another one a small one. Then look in Dan 8:19-24, where the Medes and the Persians , and Greece, these are two of the beasts. Of course we know who came after them, Rome. This is the reason that John, when writing in Rev 17:9,10, says there are seven, five have fallen one is, and one has not yet come.
Now the seven are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes and Persians, these had fallen at the time of writing by John, Rome was in power, with one to come, and that one is now ruling. The Anglo-American world power. That makes up the seven heads of the seven headed wild beast. This last beast is to rule for a short time, Rev 17:10, and go into perdition.
This is not the end, rfemember that this beast gives breath to the IMAGE of the wild beast, the scarlet wild beast that the Great Harlot, Babylon the Great is riding, Rev 17:1-9 describes this Harlot,and by the description we can easily see that she is the whole world of false religion, because she is said to be a great city that rules over the Kings of the earth. Only religion is in that position. She is riding on the IMAGE of the beast, which turns out to be the United Nations. Notice again that the Seventh head gave life to this Image, which says that it is then it is gone then it is again, which is exactly how this organization began as The League of Nations, after WW1, then was gone during WW2, then is back again. All the world powers will give this IMAGE their power and they will kill the Harlot, completely. This would be good, but right after it had stopped false religion, it attacks true religion which will spell the end of the IMAGE of the beast. This will be part of the Great Tribulation, then Armageddon, then The Thousand Year Judgement Day, Rev 19:11-211, Rev 20:1-7. Then paradise on earth, Rev 21:1-6.
 

veteran

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12jtartar said:
Kaoticprofit,
As for your proof of apostasy, you are correct as far as I can tell. The word has roots in being divorced, which would mean to be separated from your belief.
The Beast is another thing. I cannot evenimagine where you ideas have come from. Have you never read what God had written in Daniel for our clarification?? Consider Dan 7:1-8 where we are told of four beasts and another one a small one. Then look in Dan 8:19-24, where the Medes and the Persians , and Greece, these are two of the beasts. Of course we know who came after them, Rome. This is the reason that John, when writing in Rev 17:9,10, says there are seven, five have fallen one is, and one has not yet come.
Now the seven are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes and Persians, these had fallen at the time of writing by John, Rome was in power, with one to come, and that one is now ruling. The Anglo-American world power. That makes up the seven heads of the seven headed wild beast. This last beast is to rule for a short time, Rev 17:10, and go into perdition.
This is not the end, rfemember that this beast gives breath to the IMAGE of the wild beast, the scarlet wild beast that the Great Harlot, Babylon the Great is riding, Rev 17:1-9 describes this Harlot,and by the description we can easily see that she is the whole world of false religion, because she is said to be a great city that rules over the Kings of the earth. Only religion is in that position. She is riding on the IMAGE of the beast, which turns out to be the United Nations. Notice again that the Seventh head gave life to this Image, which says that it is then it is gone then it is again, which is exactly how this organization began as The League of Nations, after WW1, then was gone during WW2, then is back again. All the world powers will give this IMAGE their power and they will kill the Harlot, completely. This would be good, but right after it had stopped false religion, it attacks true religion which will spell the end of the IMAGE of the beast. This will be part of the Great Tribulation, then Armageddon, then The Thousand Year Judgement Day, Rev 19:11-211, Rev 20:1-7. Then paradise on earth, Rev 21:1-6.
That's just another possible route to deception to miss what the "strong delusion" of 2 Thess.2 is going to be about.

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward is about the devil himself, Satan as that "dragon" of that Rev.13 chapter. But he will have a beast kingdom setup on earth that he will reign over in our near future prior to Christ's return (Rev.13:1). And that's what your links with the U.N. and world government is about. No Scripture conflict as long as you recognize the 'beast' title is applied to both a kingdom idea in Rev.13, and a specific entity associated with the "dragon" of that chapter, which will be none other than Satan himself here on earth for the last days.

In the Rev.17 example, the 'beast' idea is also... applied to Satan himself too, and not just to a kingdom idea. You've apparently missed that. The beast that was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit is a direct association to Satan himself, not some Anglo-America experiment, nor the United Nations.

Your label of an Anglo-American world power idea is wrong too. You obviously fail to realize the plan for a one-world goverment is also agreed upon by the Communist Party also (as revealed by ex-FBI Cleon Skousen in his 1958 book The Naked Communist). The coming one-world government system is inherently Communist in nature, using the Communist brand of Socialism. That system does NOT represent the majority of the Anglo-American peoples! It instead represents the "workers of iniquity" who hate our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It's they that are servants of the devil himself, and includes the workers behind the world's initiatic societies of the occult, all the way up the occult hiearchy.