Charity/Offerings

Is it proper for God's people to give to godless charities? Especially ones that are to help FIND a cure?
Why do Christians lavishly and whole heartedly give to charities for the unbelievers who reject God and His provisions? Yet we scoul & cry CHARLETIAN at giving back to God some of the prosperity He has given to us so that the Temple can be built by the Word going forth.
God is trying to get His man whom He created to look to Him for their every need, not for the ungodly to look to us.
We are to witness to them to get them out of that life of lack and misery they live without God. IF one is in our path, we should never turn them away without helping with immediate needs but also with testimony of Christ as well to offer them the gift of salvation to bring them into the kingdom of God.
Why do we give to godless charities to find cures for disease when Jesus is OUR healer?
If a charity is godless, meaning they do not attribute the glory to God Almighty or the charity is for something that would not agree with the will of God then it is WRONG for us to participate with them to help them raise funds.
This is called spiritual fornication.
Ministries who give the churches funds that are for the poor saints.... to help those who reject God and His Word are going to be held accountable. You never see the disciples nor Jesus giving funds to anyone to buy them for God. The ungodly have their corrupt ways to get for themselves, Christians are not supposed to be led to steal or beg or borrow their food when their God owns it all.
You can not buy souls!


2 Cor 6:14-18
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
KJV

Foreigner said:

-- That is completely ridiculous.

In order for you to be correct, every single one of of the 5000 that Jesus fed would have had to have been committed Christians and complete and unwaivering believe that He could do that with two fish and five loaves, BEFORE He did it.
And if they had doubted yet were still fed the food.....then Christ and His disciples were commiting "Spiritual Fornication" for feeding them.


If you were correct, that would mean that when Jesus seperated the sheep and the goats, the sheep would only be blessed if the charities they gave to that fed the poor, cared for the sick, visited the lonely and imprisoned.....were Christ-centered charities.


I would not envy you standing before Christ trying to sell Him on the idea that you chose not to give to a charity that would heal people and save their lives - thus increasing the possibility that they will eventually hear God's Word and be saved - solely because the work that charity did wasn't Christ-centered.


What kind of lunatic would think that a Christian supporting charities that try to find a cure for a five year old dying from leukemia or a 10 year old dying from cancer is committing a sin?

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To one with no understanding... it may be!
I would ask you to RE-READ the feeding of the 5,000. You will find that not only did they FIRST sit at the feet of Jesus humbling themselves to the Word to feed on his spiritual meal BEFORE THEY RECIEVED ANYTHING from God, but THEN they obeyed Jesus by GIVING ALL THEY HAD as an offering to the man of God being Jesus who LIFTED it up to the Father in THANKSGIVING and THEN AND ONLY THEN did they receive MULITPLICATION enough to feed everyone who remained to hear the whole message and participated as a whole, with even leftovers.

We are to take the GOSPEL of the kingdom to the poor, the hurting, the lost who are held captive by their weak flesh to sinful lives being subjects of the devil that keeps them dead, in misery, beggarly, broken, in chaos and darkness, NOT provide for their UNBELIEF IN GOD. We are NOTsupposed to buy, manipulate or plead for others to believe upon Jesus.. you can not buy LOVE. God is not into the begging business. He gave His only Begotten Son for them and the sign of Jonah is all they are going to get.... being warned to REPENT!!! and turn to the "LIVING" God to be saved.
Matt 22:32
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
KJV

Luke 9:59-62
59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
KJV

Axehead said:

It is proper for God's people to be led by the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean by "Temple".

And who is called a "Charletan"? Any specific names or examples that you can think of?


Gal_6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

I don't know if it is so wise to judge people that are doing good for others. We don't know all the ways that the Holy Spirit may lead one to do "good". Don't you think you are barking up the wrong tree on this thread?



Did you just contradict yourself?

What Christians are you talking about?

Spiritual fornication (and spiritual adultery) is giving yourself (heart) to other idols and not just with Jesus. The Bible did not say do good ONLY to men that give glory to God, does it? And besides what you read and understand of the Bible, what about how the Holy Spirit leads men?


Gal_6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


Luke 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

So, are you saying that we should not give to charities that are trying to find a cure for something and that do not give glory to God? But, to everyone else it is ok to give?

Here is the problem with people trying to create a belief system and moral code out of Christianity rather than letting people discover how to be led by the Holy Spirit and learn from their mistakes. And that is: people will have to start following you now because you have the answers for how people should behave morally. And once again, another denomination or religious sect springs up that has the answer to the plan of God and how people should live. But, I just call it "religious behaviour modification".

Do you see the danger in using the Bible to create a belief system, moral code, procedures and rules for people to follow? It has nothing to do with the Life of Christ in them, anymore.

Can you tell me why the Jehovah Witness organization is a cult and what their biggest problems are?

Axehead

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I use the Bible to confirm what the Spirit of God teaches me. I do not learn from the traditions of man. Why do you not understand the spiritual things? You are thinking as a mere man. Jesus told us that our own family will be our enemies, why are you rejecting that?
I am not saying that if someone in your path is in need that you do not give them help, but you need to be sure they are not using that help to advance the devils works or you are participating with them.
Our first mission is for the kingdom of God as a soldier of Christ that understands the spirit of the one you are helping. You are to bring the gospel to their ears to save their soul, for a sandwhich or a blanket is not going to save anyone, for they are still in their miserable state.... DEAD spiritually to God!
Why do you put natural things as more important and before the spiritual?

We must be kind to all, but to resist the devil and shine light on the evil deeds of men for their own good not support them.

Matt 4:4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV


John 6:26-27
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
KJV
Heb 5:11-6:1
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

forrestcupp said:

I think it's crazy to think it's wrong to give to charities that are helping people. But I also think you brought up a good point. Why do people think it's ok to give to charities that don't promote God, but they get all upset about the idea of giving money to ministries that are trying to reach people with the gospel?

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forrestcupp,
We are not suppose to be supporting ungodly charities that seek man's help and reject God who wants to show His love, provide, protect and heal them. By supporting them we are leaving them in the same state.. dead to God!
If we believe that God is the healer and we believe that Jesus gave us authority to heal the sick, diseased, poverty stricken due to the sin in their life, then why would be commit spiritual fornication by supporting fallen man as the one we look to for healing and support their work?
We are in this world but we are not of this world. We must put our faith in God and His Word alone, mixing it with NOTHING else to receive God's glory.

But I am glad that you see that giving to the kingdom of God is the most important thing we can give our treasures to. For not only does it support the man of God's needs who has given up his life to feed the sheep who love God which shows that you VALUE your soul food, but it gives funds for them to take the gospel to all the world rather by internet, satelite, plane, train, boat we are to partner with them and are partakers of the blessings of God on all they minister, just as a shareholder of any business. We are workers for God rather we are a minister who is willing to travel for the sake of the Word or supporters. Who do you think gives the better benefits, man or God Almighty? The blessing and favor of God is more valuable than anything for it comes by receiving the wisdom of God's Word.. Our Lord Jesus Christ.


Gal 6:6 says that we are to sow into the work of God for that is life. But when we show God that we are in idolatry by saving our treasures for our natural needs, thinking more of them than our spiritual food, He takes note. God is not mocked, He sees exactly where our heart is.

Here is a promise from God, It is written:
Gal 6:6-10
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
KJV
Let us do good to all men and bring them the gospel so they too can receive the LOVE/Word of God, then God can be their God, no longer of the devils spawn.

Axehead said:

Let's just be sure that we are not going around using the Bible to pose as "Behavioral Modification Therapists". I have a lot of confidence in the Holy Spirit's ability to lead His children. We cannot modify the behavior of Non-Believers and there are many posing as Believers in the Church. Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (John_12:32 )

"One of the essential rules of the Christian life is never to ask a non-Christian to conduct himself like a Christian. If grace really renews a person; if the Christian life is already evidence of the life of someone who is in Christ; if obedience to the Christian ethic is the loving response of a recipient of grace to Him who has shown His love by bestowing grace, then how can one ask a man who has not received, or who did not know that he was under grace, to act as though . . . as though his person were renewed, as though he had experienced grace bestowed upon him, as though he knew that he was the object of God's love? The obligation placed upon him is nothing but restraint. The morality to which he submits can only be based upon the fear of punishment, and God becomes then the great condemner. That is what regularly happens in so-called Christian societies." (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 104)

"Christianity seems at first to be all about morality, all about duties and rules and guilt and virtue, yet it leads you on, out of all that, into something beyond. One has a glimpse of a country where they do not talk of those things, except perhaps as a joke. Every one there is filled full with what we should call goodness as a mirror is filled with light. But they do not call it goodness. They do not call it anything. They are not thinking of it. They are too busy looking at the source from which it comes." (C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity. Macmillan Publishing. 1978. pgs. 130,131)

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God's house is not a welfare system nor does it resort to bribes to get people to come to God. We are not to judge those who are of the devil for their god is not our God, this is true... But we do not hang out withthem other than to be a witness, and ambassadore for Christ. We should have noting in common with these people. If you are always liked and accepted by the ungodly, know that you must be walking as they walk because if Jesus said they hated him and they will hate us too IF we are bringing the TRUE Light into their dark places and EXPOSING THEM for the saving of their soul!
If you know of one who has not accepted Jesus as their Lord, but they do not avoid your Word of truth, and they listen from time to time, then it is fine to keep coming to them for they may not be fully convinced, but they are not rejecting to hear either. But our goal is to take the gospel, not provisions.
Jude 21-23
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
KJV

Never should we return evil for evil, nor should we step over a starving man but we are not to set our selves up as their god by being their provider when they reject the message of the kingdom that we should have given them the opportunity to accept. Jesus said, those who accept you(really) will accept me.

Jesus went out into the dark places but he did not give them money or supplies.... IN FACT the worker is worthy of his wages, meaning they are to give to us for the spiritual things we are bringing to their ears. They fed Jesus, they fed the disciples, they gave to the treasury. The Word of God is the greatest thing you can give to another human being rather you believe this or not, does not matter, it is THE TRUTH! If you love the lost want to help the poor, and really heal the sick and diseased, don't waste time just bringing physicaly sandwhiches to the dead or sending them to fallen man for false healing, bring them the Bread of life! Then you will be doing something for those you claim to love.
And as you can hopefully see and receive as truth, BELIEVERS are not to sin or we are to cast them out of the holy body of Christ who KNOWS NO ONE OF SINFUL ways. I never knew you, he says workers of INIQUITY/SIN.
1 Cor 5:9-13
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
KJV
Matt 10:6-15
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received{DO NOT SELL THE WORD SO THAT ALL CAN HEAR THE TRUTH NOT MATTER THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS}, freely give {BUT DO ACCEPT FREE WILL OFFERINGS THAT SHOW THE HEART OF THE HEARER}.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
KJV



Acts 26:16-18
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
KJV