Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid

Ruth · Mar 3, 2013

Popular Pastor Rick Warren said any organization that sees evangelism as a priority should not take government money.

The pastor of Saddleback Community Church in California told Washington reporters he's refused millions the Obama and Bush administrations offered in support of his ministry's global relief efforts.

Warren said he turned down the money because he won't let aid restrictions stop him from telling people about Jesus Christ.

He also pointed out many foreign countries now reject U.S. aid that's conditional on their acceptance of abortion or gay rights.

Warren said officials in dozens of countries have told him their values aren't for sale.

cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/February/Rick-Warren-Ministries-Should-Refuse-Govt-Aid/

aspen · Mar 4, 2013

He is absolutely correct. For one thing, it is shameful for churches to allow ministries to go outside the circle of Christian support for funding.

IAmAWitness · Mar 4, 2013

And no more 501(c)(3) for churches. They should pay taxes like everyone else and take heed to Yeshua's words, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's" and "No man can serve two masters".

Pastors will go in the supercenter, buy a brand new 70" tv they plan to take home but they will show the tax-exempt card for their church so they don't pay the ~ $200 in taxes on it.

Oh I see what this is: This is Rick Warren playing the good guy, getting up on his high horse, all the while his ministry flaunts tax codes by holding 501(c)(3). Move along, nothing to see here but another hypocrite, or should I say wolf. This is all for his public image. Why would a decent person say, "Oh and look at me, how because of my convictions I refuse millions!" What a proud and arrogant douche, his fall will be soon and swift.

Ruth · Mar 5, 2013

IAmAWitness said:
And no more 501(c)(3) for churches. They should pay taxes like everyone else and take heed to Yeshua's words, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's" and "No man can serve two masters".

Pastors will go in the supercenter, buy a brand new 70" tv they plan to take home but they will show the tax-exempt card for their church so they don't pay the ~ $200 in taxes on it.
Oh I see what this is: This is Rick Warren playing the good guy, getting up on his high horse, all the while his ministry flaunts tax codes by holding 501(c)(3). Move along, nothing to see here but another hypocrite, or should I say wolf. This is all for his public image. Why would a decent person say, "Oh and look at me, how because of my convictions I refuse millions!" What a proud and arrogant douche, his fall will be soon and swift.

What a slanderous reply, you do not even give evidence to your accusations.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of malicious behavior. - Ephesians 4:31

Foreigner · Mar 5, 2013

IAmAWitness said:
Oh I see what this is: This is Rick Warren playing the good guy, getting up on his high horse, all the while his ministry flaunts tax codes by holding 501(c)(3). Move along, nothing to see here but another hypocrite, or should I say wolf. This is all for his public image. Why would a decent person say, "Oh and look at me, how because of my convictions I refuse millions!" What a proud and arrogant douche, his fall will be soon and swift.

-- Yeah, Ruth this is the same guy who in another thread here is spouting, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
I would blow him off.

IAmAWitness · Mar 5, 2013

Foreigner said:
-- Yeah, Ruth this is the same guy who in another thread here is spouting, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
I would blow him off.

I am voluntarily censoring my words because I acted in anger and distress. With all do respect sir, that is a total lie. I never said that.

Foreigner said:
Where does this man come off spouting these such as this from the pulpit?
What happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged" or "First plank, then splinter?"

I
have never given money to Joyce Meyers or her ministry. I have never
bought a book or CD of hers, nor have I seen one or borrowed one from
someone.
But I do know people who have been blessed and their walk with Jesus improved by listening to her.

The guy and his rants are unfair and are not fitting of a man who is a leader of a church.

Again, I'm going to change what I originally said and point out that the discussion was followed with a reply from this man where he quotes Jesus as saying, "Judge not..." and now because it helps him prove his point and his slander against me, he is trying to say these are words I said, which I did not. You are lying sir and deceiving people. Shame on you.

To Ruth:

http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2008/12/no-irs-return-required-from-warrens.html

Saddleback Church is tax-exempt. Now show me where these lies are that I posted with no proof. Why don't you prove to me that he does pay taxes?

Foreigner · Mar 5, 2013

IAmAWitness said:
I am voluntarily censoring my words because I acted in anger and distress. With all do respect sir, that is a total lie. I never said that.

-- You accused me of detesting prophecy because I the preacher should not have said Joyce Meyers had a demon in her.
Judge not lest ye be judged.

IAmAWitness said:
What a proud and arrogant douche, his fall will be soon and swift.

-- Yet another example of your name calling. Not just in this thread, either.
Please tell me you don't talk to the unsaved this way if they do not respond to you.

aspen · Mar 5, 2013

Why are topics being derailed with petty arguing everywhere you go Foreigner? Is this your witness?

Axehead · Mar 5, 2013

IAmAWitness said:
And no more 501(c)(3) for churches. They should pay taxes like everyone else and take heed to Yeshua's words, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's" and "No man can serve two masters".

Pastors will go in the supercenter, buy a brand new 70" tv they plan to take home but they will show the tax-exempt card for their church so they don't pay the ~ $200 in taxes on it.

Oh I see what this is: This is Rick Warren playing the good guy, getting up on his high horse, all the while his ministry flaunts tax codes by holding 501(c)(3). Move along, nothing to see here but another hypocrite, or should I say wolf. This is all for his public image. Why would a decent person say, "Oh and look at me, how because of my convictions I refuse millions!" What a proud and arrogant douche, his fall will be soon and swift.

Actually, Churches were not required to pay taxes anyway, before the 1950 law establishing 501(c)(3) organizations. Churches should never have fallen into the trap that the government set for them. They are already in too deep. The only thing for them to do is to extricate themselves from being a ward of the state and renounce their 501(c)(3) and give the control of their church back to Jesus Christ.

And yes, while Rick Warren's church remains a ward of the state, he should not criticize other churches. But, after all, he is trying to remain relevant. It is good to just follow Jesus and not be beholden to men.

Foreigner · Mar 6, 2013

aspen2 said:
Why are topics being derailed with petty arguing everywhere you go Foreigner? Is this your witness?

-- Sorry Aspen, but by your own admission you are the last person here to talk to anyone about witnessing.
Please note who is doing the name calling and - if you are going to do more than your typical whine-by - see that they were the initial instigator.
Or don't. I can only pretend for so long that your opinion matters to me...

Ruth · Mar 6, 2013

Foreigner said:
-- Sorry Aspen, but by your own admission you are the last person here to talk to anyone about witnessing.
Please note who is doing the name calling and - if you are going to do more than your typical whine-by - see that they were the initial instigator.
Or don't. I can only pretend for so long that your opinion matters to me...

Agree with Foreigner

aspen · Mar 7, 2013

Ruth said:
Agree with Foreigner

Which part?

Ruth · Mar 7, 2013

aspen2 said:
Which part?

Agreeing with Foreigner that IamAWitness was very crude in his reply.

aspen · Mar 7, 2013

I see - thanks for the clarification.

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