Temples

ajdiamond said:

If you look at the parable of the sower (Luke 8)--the parable you are instructed to know so that you can know the other parables(Mark 4:13)--you can see that in Jesus' interpretation of the parable (Luke 8:11-15) he is not speaking about external things, he is speaking about internal things in the heart of man. Is this parable about the kingdom of God? Yes (Luke 8:10, Mark 4:11). Why is he teaching about things in the heart of man in a parable about the kingdom of God? Because the kingdom of God is within you.

Look at the other kingdom parables. The kingdom of God is likened to a:

-treasure hidden buried in a field that needs to be found. (Matt 13:44)
-one pearl of great price that need be found. (Matt 13:45-46)
-leaven hidden within meal (Luke 13:20-21)
-a seed cast into the earth (Mark 4:26-29)
-a mustard seed sowed in a man's field (Mark 4:30–32)

The kingdom of God is something hidden and/or buried within something else that one may search for and find. The kingdom is buried and dormant within man. It is covered over by detritus: cycles of reactive emotion and mentation, 5-sense sensuousness, lies, false beliefs, unrighteousness, etc. A man need sell all this detritus for the Treasure, that True Light which lighteth every man that comes into the world, that he may partake of the divine nature within and know the Truth.

Note that the kingdom is likened unto one individual finding a treasure hidden in a field, one merchant finding the pearl of great price and one woman having leaven hidden within meal. It is not some external world event for the masses. No; one by one, men see the man of sin within, learn of the mystery of the kingdom, sell all the detritus and enter in. Then, it is no longer the carnal mind and illusory false self running the show for them, as that no longer lives; for it is then Christ who now lives in them. And few there be that find it and know this.

If you look at these parables with a "LITERAL, PHYSICAL, CONCRETE KINGDOM" in mind, they show you nothing and make no sense. But, if you allow for the possibility that the Kingdom of God is within you, as Jesus said, you can see the simplicity of how it is something hidden buried within something else. You!

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daq said:

During the wilderness temptation-trial-testing of the Master he is set on a wing or pinnacle of the Temple which is in the Greek the Hieron-Temple. It does not matter whether the following account is intended to be literal or in a vision of the Temple because either way what is being described is the physical Hieron-Temple building made with hands:

Matthew 4:5 KJV
5. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple [GSN#2411 hieron],

This word Greek "hieron" is always employed to describe a physical temple building such as at Jerusalem:

Matthew 12:5-6 KJV
5. Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple [GSN#2411 hieron] profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6. But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple [GSN#2411 hieron].

Yeshua claims to be GREATER than the Hieron-Temple building made with hands!

Matthew 21:14-15 KJV
14. And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; [GSN#2411 hieron] and he healed them.
15. And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, [GSN#2411 hieron] and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,

Matthew 21:23 KJV
23. And when he was come into the temple, [GSN#2411 hieron] the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Yet when we arrive at Matthew 23 the word "Naos" is introduced for the Temple. And in this context the Master is revealing the what, where, and why, of how the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes where mistaken in their doctrines:

Matthew 23:15-22 KJV
15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, [GSN#3485 naos] it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, [GSN#3485 naos] he is a debtor!
17. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple [GSN#3485 naos] that sanctifieth the gold?
18. And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20. Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21. And whoso shall swear by the temple, [GSN#3485 naos] sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

1) The Naos-Temple sanctifies "the gold" (not the gold the Temple).
2) The Most High dwells in the Naos-Temple
3) Heaven is the throne of God

Matthew 23:32-35 KJV
32. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34. Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple [GSN#3485 naos] and the altar.

Desolating Abomination Post#32

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: [GSN#2411 hieron] and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple [GSN#2411 hieron].
2. And Jesus said unto them, See [GSN#991 blepo] ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Original Strong's Ref. #991
Romanized blepo
Pronounced blep'-o
a primary verb; to look at (literally or figuratively):
KJV--behold, beware, lie, look (on, to), perceive, regard, see, sight, take heed.
Compare GSN3700.

And Yeshua says to them: "TAKE NO HEED OF ALL THESE THINGS!"

Matthew 24:2-4 Transliterated Unaccented
2. Ho de apokritheis eipen autois, "Ou blepete tauta panta Amen lego humin, ou meafethe hode lithos epi lithon hos ou kataluthesetai"^
3. Kathemenou de autou epi tou Orous ton Elaion proselthon auto hoi mathetai kat idian legontes, "Eipehemin pote tauta estai Kai ti to semeion tes sesparousias kai sunteleias tou aionos"
4. Kai apokritheis ho Iesous eipen autois, "Blepete me-tis humas planese

Matthew 24:4 KJV
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed [GSN#991 blepo] that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:2 -- "Ou blepete tauta panta" ~ "Take no heed of all these things!"
Matthew 24:4 -- "Blepete me-tis humas planese" ~ "Take heed that no one deceive you!"

The form of blepo is identical in both instances above and should be rendered likewise:

"Ou blepete" ~ "Pay no heed!"
"Blepete" ~ "Take heed!"

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Are we to believe that the disciples came to Yeshua for to show him the workmanship of the Hieron-Temple and its magnificent stones, (re: Mark 13:1-2) and then the Master turns and asks them if they "do not see the stones" which they just asked him to look at? That interpretation is redundant and makes the Master to look somewhat foolish in his remarks. In other words, rather than an interrogative-question, [?] the Master exclaims [!] to them "PAY NO HEED!" to this Hieron-Temple building made with hands because verily there shall not be left one stone upon another which shall not have been thrown down. This understanding completely alters the inflection, perception, and supernal meaning of the entire Olivet Discourse. Thus the Olivet Discourse and all of the supernal signs given by the Master have nothing to do with the Hieron-Temple building or any other temple-building made with the hands of man. When we arrive at the Gospel of John we are informed more clearly of what the Naos-Temple concerns:

John 2:13-21 KJV
13. And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14. And found in the temple [GSN#2411 hieron] those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15. And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, [GSN#2411 hieron] and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16. And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
17. And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18. Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19. Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, [GSN#3485 naos] and in three days I will raise it up.
20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple [GSN#3485 naos] in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21. But he spake of the temple [GSN#3485 naos] of his body.

If therefore the Master speaks of the Naos-Temple of his Body, and the saints be in and of the one Body of Messiah, then I choose that interpretation of the Naos-Temple whenever I read of it hereafter in the Word, that is to say, that the Naos-Temple concerns the body temple supernal and the true Temple of God rather than a physical Hieron-Temple building made with the hands of men. And this certainly includes the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua.

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[SIZE=large]God makes a home in those who love him. [/SIZE]

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[SIZE=large]Does that not mean that those who love God are in the kingdom of God?[/SIZE]

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dragonfly said:

And keeps His word.

Let's not forget we are talking about disowning one's life (taking up one's cross) and being active in carrying out His commands.

The apostle John slices this every possible way in His first epistle, with great simplicity, (just as Paul writes oodles about it in his own way epistle after epistle), capturing the raw reality of Jesus' insistence that we obey Him, as well as love Him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.


If we're meeting all the criteria laid out by John, it does.

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Giver said:

[SIZE=large]Paul said Christians are temples of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large]Jesus said it much simpler. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=large](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large]Does God live in a temple? Paul said he does. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=large]God makes a home in those who love him. Does that not mean that those who love God are in the kingdom of God?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=large]Remember those who love God do not sin. Sinning is not living God’s Word.[/SIZE]

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dragonfly said:

Hi veteran,

Do you really believe that Ezekiel's temple is going to be built out of physical materials (in the same way as the temples which previously existed at Jerusalem), because .... although one can find a picture of a 'model' of Ezekiel's temple at least one place online, the offerings seem disproportionate.

Exodus 16:36 Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah.

Ezekiel 45:11 '...and the ephah the tenth part of an homer...'


I am inclined to believe the generous offerings to be brought to the temple Ezekiel describes, are spiritual in meaning, although they are described using physical symbols. Surely the water flowing out under the door, is the word of God, by the Holy Spirit?

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I just know per God's Word that The LORD is Who is going to build it, and it will be located here upon the earth

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Here is something i found on another website. "To explain the tremendous number of details of ezekiels temple using allegory detracts from a disciplined interpretation of the text".

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dragonfly said:

Hi Pelaides,


Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but if your comment is a response to my post, then... I was not talking about allegory, and neither is veteran.

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I believe you were trying to say that the temple described in Ezeikel is symbolic

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dragonfly said:

Before I comment on that, I'm assuming you've read the descriptions in Ezekiel?

Now the following extract is not necessarily about a 'temple', but it does demonstrate one of the difficulties. Can you spot the problem and how would you solve it?

Ezekiel 40
[SIZE=10.5px]5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5px]6 Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad. 7 [/SIZE]And every little chamber was one reed long, and one reed broad; and between the little chambers were five cubits; and the threshold of the gate by the porch of the gate within was one reed.

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dragonfly said:

Please don't change the subject from the text to me. <_<

I gave you a section of scripture which I wanted you to read 'at face value', so that you could give me the benefit of your spiritual insight as to how it could be translated into a physical building, such as you seem to be believe Ezekiel's temple should be.

Are you suggesting there are errors in the text, and that is why you cannot answer my question?

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dragonfly said:

Before I comment on that, I'm assuming you've read the descriptions in Ezekiel?

Now the following extract is not necessarily about a 'temple', but it does demonstrate one of the difficulties. Can you spot the problem and how would you solve it?

Ezekiel 40
[SIZE=10.5px]5 And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5px]6 Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad. 7 [/SIZE]And every little chamber was one reed long, and one reed broad; and between the little chambers were five cubits; and the threshold of the gate by the porch of the gate within was one reed.

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dragonfly said:

Hi Pelaides and Retrobyter,

Do either of you have any idea why Ezekiel's layout was not used after Judah was released from Babylon?

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