Which is the most important, Old or New Testament

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Wise Haven

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I would like to know the general consensus of opinion from Christians about the importance of the Old Testament.My understanding is that the New Testament abrogates the Old.Is that true?Thanks:study:
 

Amy

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Comaprison:The Old Testament's concentration was more on physical aspect. The New Testament's concentration is on spiritual aspects.The need:people in Mosses time were idol worshipers and barbaric. They need to realize God and civilize themselves. In years to come people went on extremes and they surpassed the law by being judgemental. Judgement on the other hand is only in God's hand as we read in here:Galatians 6:4-5 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.Therefore, Jesus concentrated on spiritual cleanliness. Which is not to by-pass the law of Mosses but to fulfill it in the right manner. Matthew 5:17 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Nothing, that Jesus said or did by-passed the Law which is clearly stated in the ten commandments.Exodus 20:1-21 1 And God spoke all these words: 2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. 12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. 13 "You shall not murder. 14 "You shall not commit adultery. 15 "You shall not steal. 16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." 18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." 20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning." 21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.Conclusion:God can never abrogate what He Himself has said. The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost words are in one Symmetry.
 

Wise Haven

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Thanks Amy - my question about abrogation is related to this:Romans 13 (KJV)8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.These verses seem to supercede at least five of the ten commandments.
 

Amy

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Thanks Amy - my question about abrogation is related to this:Romans 13 (KJV)8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.These verses seem to supercede at least five of the ten commandments.
I am not sure if I understand your question. Can you please show with comparison and explain how you see this superceding the other?
 

Wise Haven

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3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.13 "You shall not murder. (Superceded by Romans 13:9)14 "You shall not commit adultery.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)15 "You shall not steal.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."(Superceded by Romans 13:9)It appears that five of the ten commandments have been summarised by this phrase "Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself.:study:
 

Amy

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3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.13 "You shall not murder. (Superceded by Romans 13:9)14 "You shall not commit adultery.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)15 "You shall not steal.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.(Superceded by Romans 13:9)17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."(Superceded by Romans 13:9)It appears that five of the ten commandments have been summarised by this phrase "Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself.:study:
Even if it is to be considered as a summary, what's wrong in summarising??? Especially when the original is intact !
 

Wise Haven

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Hi AmyI am not saying summarizing is wrong.It seems that Jesus came and re-iterated and endorsed parts of the Old Testament but not othersThe Old Testament has a character (Objective and literal)Whilst Christ comes with a more spiritual, subjective and philosophical message.Therefore I argue that what Christ says is everything we need to know and renders the Old Testament redundant apart from being an historical record of the Jewish people.Why did he come? Just to wash us of our sins, or also to correct the word of God as presented in the OT
 

Amy

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Hi AmyI am not saying summarizing is wrong.It seems that Jesus came and re-iterated and endorsed parts of the Old Testament but not othersThe Old Testament has a character (Objective and literal)Whilst Christ comes with a more spiritual, subjective and philosophical message.Therefore I argue that what Christ says is everything we need to know and renders the Old Testament redundant apart from being an historical record of the Jewish people.Why did he come? Just to wash us of our sins, or also to correct the word of God as presented in the OT
Just consider what you yourself has said :''The Old Testament has a character (Objective and literal)Whilst Christ comes with a more spiritual, subjective and philosophical message''Now apply it to the body and soul and you will see how both fulfill the same. Still confused? Ok can you find any verse in the bible where Jesus has said that he has come to by-pass or even enhance the law in the Old testament?You can do a search on the net and you will find many verses where Jesus said that he has come to fulfill the law but none where it says to enhance it. For God, both body and soul are important. Body because it is where God lives and Soul because it belongs to God. Neither should be corrupt.Basically, like I said before it in in complete symmetry.
 

Jordan

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Yahshua is the Lamb of God.Genesis 22:8 - And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.John 1:29 - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.Revelation 1:5 - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,Ephesians 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;John 3:16 - For God (YHWH) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, (Yahshua) that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

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It is refreshing to see a holistic approach to Christianity.Still confused? Ok can you find any verse in the bible where Jesus has said that he has come to by-pass or even enhance the law in the Old testament?12Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,'[a] but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"I did not say he came to by-pass or enhance the OT. The verse above shows that Jesus was angered by the way Gods word was being ignored - part of his message is the reinforcing of the old laws. Surely, therefore everything he says is the true message of God and not the way man interpreted it at the time of the above verse.
 

Jordan

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Old Testament and New Testament compliment each other. Both are extremely important. You can't have one and leave the rest. And the fact the New Testament fulfilled the prophecies, but not all. And some prophecies, The Old And New will fulfill together. Matthew 5:17-18 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Christ Yahshua never came to change the law.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

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Old Testament and New Testament compliment each other. Both are extremely important. You can't have one and leave the rest. And the fact the New Testament fulfilled the prophecies, but not all. And some prophecies, The Old And New will fulfill together.
But there is also disparity thesuperjag.The whole of the OT should be validated by Christ. For example the fundamental message of Jesus contradicts some parts of the OT ie "eye for an eye" and therefore invalidates the OT
 

Wise Haven

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Another thing is the current canon. Who was it and when was the current OT accepted, apart from the Apocryphal books etc?In the time of Jesus were the apocryphal books part of the Jewish canon?It is a little confusing!
 

Jordan

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Yahshua is God. He knows everything and we don't. Like the verses that say like (for example) Leviticus 20:15 - And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.Leviticus 20:27 - A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.Well YHWH has classed everyone on this planet disobedience, that's why He send his only begotten Son Yahshua to die for our sins.We all sinned, we ALL can now repent to YHWH in Yahshua's name. Back in those days, I think YHWH has spoken literally, but now we have the bible, God speaks through His Son, in His Words in the bible. Those days, YHWH commanded them, but now, He speaks to us in His Words. We can not ever know people's heart. But we can examine the fruits whether it is of God or not.Matthew 7:16-20 - Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.In those days, Jews were God's people...Now He has given the Gentiles a chance to be with Him. Everybody's open. Even the Kenites (sons of Cain, the first murderer) are allowed to repent and be with Him.Romans 3:29 - Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:(Wise Haven)
Another thing is the current canon. Who was it and when was the current OT accepted, apart from the Apocryphal books etc?In the time of Jesus were the apocryphal books part of the Jewish canon?It is a little confusing!
From what I heard, the Apocryphal books contradict each other...so I'm not taking a chance on trusting that.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

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I believe in God therefore I believe in Jesus who was the manifestation of God on earth.I cannot accept the absolute divinity of the Bible(OT and NT)Ergo I become a Christian without a sect.What about Christian fellowship?:angel1:
 

Amy

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It is refreshing to see a holistic approach to Christianity.''Still confused? Ok can you find any verse in the bible where Jesus has said that he has come to by-pass or even enhance the law in the Old testament?''12Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,'[a] but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"I did not say he came to by-pass or enhance the OT. The verse above shows that Jesus was angered by the way Gods word was being ignored - part of his message is the reinforcing of the old laws. Surely, therefore everything he says is the true message of God and not the way man interpreted it at the time of the above verse.
Read this again and read it carefully :Exodus 20:1-211 And God spoke all these words:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.13 "You shall not murder.14 "You shall not commit adultery.15 "You shall not steal.16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die."20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.Show me where in the ten commandments dose it say anything about anger?True generally bible preaches about anger and that is because anger consumes us and may lead us to sin.Lot of people use the verse you used or if I may say this, abuse this verse. True, Jesus got angry but did his anger lead to sin?
 

Jordan

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Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

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Jesus did express his disapproval - In the form of anger. Was this the way God communicated his disapproval of this conduct to humankind?I do not believe God has need for anger but I think that this manifestation is necessary for humans to understand the severity of Gods disapproval.
 

Amy

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Jesus did express his disapproval - In the form of anger. Was this the way God communicated his disapproval of this conduct to humankind?I do not believe God has need for anger but I think that this manifestation is necessary for humans to understand the severity of Gods disapproval.
Yes, on serveral occassions, I suggest you read bible.It dosen't matter what you believe if you don't believe the word of God.