Yah, all are forgiven. That is the good news - the king has emancipated all mankind. However, not all will be sanctified because those of darkness hate the light and will not come to the light that their evil deeds may be forgiven. Without holiness, no man will see the lord. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the children of darkness realize what they have thrown away.
Are all forgiven?
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ONLY Christ's sheep are forgiven. The "Israel of God" can take comfort in this and a whole lot more. Praise be to GOD!
This thread deserves a great deal more attention.
The reconciliation to God which Christ obtained for the whole world, will only be attributed to those who come to Christ contritely confessing his/her sinful state and repentantly desiring to live with a different attitude to sin - an attitude which abhors sin.
There is nowhere in the New Testament (or the Old Testament) where 'forgiveness' is doled out to unrepentant sinners.
Note: in the Old Testament, God knew that Messiah would, in the fulness of time, die for sin as the eternal sacrifice, the Lamb who is always just slain, and on that basis, He forgave sins.
But, He never forgave anyone a sin before it had been committed and repented of, and the same is true today, in the New Covenant.
The reconciliation to God which Christ obtained for the whole world, will only be attributed to those who come to Christ contritely confessing his/her sinful state and repentantly desiring to live with a different attitude to sin - an attitude which abhors sin.
There is nowhere in the New Testament (or the Old Testament) where 'forgiveness' is doled out to unrepentant sinners.
Note: in the Old Testament, God knew that Messiah would, in the fulness of time, die for sin as the eternal sacrifice, the Lamb who is always just slain, and on that basis, He forgave sins.
But, He never forgave anyone a sin before it had been committed and repented of, and the same is true today, in the New Covenant.
I'm glad to see there are so many people who think they will be happy in Heaven while the most loving atheist friend they know is burning in Hell. Good luck living with that and thinking God was righteous in doing so, condemning a man who is no better then you, or perhaps even better, because they didn't dish out worship to something their mind wouldn't allow them to do.
If you believe any person can believe in Christ, then you simply don't see too far passed yourself. "Invincible Ignorance" is a term describing the fact that you can't force yourself to believe something. If any of you were born in Iraq, you would be Muslim and be saying the same things to Christians. If you grew up in a secular neighborhood, with a secular family, grew up and lived a secular lifestyle, you'd be saying the same things I'm saying- you can't be forced to believe something.
It's only religious people that think that is the case. Go figure. If you believ ein a God that sends those people to Hell, then quite frankly, maybe it's you who should go there.
If you believe any person can believe in Christ, then you simply don't see too far passed yourself. "Invincible Ignorance" is a term describing the fact that you can't force yourself to believe something. If any of you were born in Iraq, you would be Muslim and be saying the same things to Christians. If you grew up in a secular neighborhood, with a secular family, grew up and lived a secular lifestyle, you'd be saying the same things I'm saying- you can't be forced to believe something.
It's only religious people that think that is the case. Go figure. If you believ ein a God that sends those people to Hell, then quite frankly, maybe it's you who should go there.
Hi SIM,
So, are we to understand that you don't believe in God?
Or is it that you don't believe God is righteous?
So, are we to understand that you don't believe in God?
Or is it that you don't believe God is righteous?
dragonfly said:
Tis true, but what do you think of what Paul wrote to those in Colosse?
19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
Col 1:19-23 (NLT)
Good point. The debt of mankind has been completely paid. Christ took it all upon himself. That's the good news; no need for any man to perish. There is no man for whom the price paid is not sufficient, for Christ took the judgment for all sin.jiggyfly said:
I don't believe there is any unforgiveness or condemnation in Christ. Those who perish will do so because they reject his emancipation from sin. One cannot abide in Christ without confessing the truth. The truth is that we are sinners. Those who reject that reality and confession abide in darkness through their own choosing. At judgment, Christ will justly give them what they have asked for - to appear before the judge in their own righteousness. Woe unto them! Light cannot dwell with darkness.
Hi jiggyfly,
Think about that. Christ had died and risen. God was in Him reconciling the whole world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) but they were still 'alienated'.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Something happened to change their alienation from God, and in this case, it wasn't Christ's death and resurrection which both had already occurred. It was their response to the news of His sacrifice for mankind, which changed them from being aliens to being reconciled.
This is the point at which the believer begins to know he/she, individually and personally, is forgiven by God for his/her own sins.
In v 23 Paul gives them a conditional promise: 'If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
In v 4 Paul says: 'Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus...' You quote v 21 which states they were once 'far away from God'.
Think about that. Christ had died and risen. God was in Him reconciling the whole world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) but they were still 'alienated'.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Something happened to change their alienation from God, and in this case, it wasn't Christ's death and resurrection which both had already occurred. It was their response to the news of His sacrifice for mankind, which changed them from being aliens to being reconciled.
This is the point at which the believer begins to know he/she, individually and personally, is forgiven by God for his/her own sins.
In v 23 Paul gives them a conditional promise: 'If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
The purpose of Judgment is to rehab. you. The reason a person doesn't haveForeigner said:
the ability to submit to the Christ is because he/she doesn't have Judgment in
their land. Isa. 26:9 says,
9 At night my soul longs for You, Indeed, my spirit within
me seeks You diligently ; For when the earth experiences
Your judgments The inhabitants of the world learn
righteousness.
God uses fire to judge us and correct us in His Time. That fire consists of trials
that will try us to see if we will change the way we see and do things. We are
being tried (judged) everyday as Christians for the purpose of learning the right
way to treat our neighbors.
Our judgment comes now while the unbeliever's judgment or correction will come
after the appointed time of death (Hebrews 9:27). The day is coming when all
shall hear the voice of God and come forth (John 5:29-30). In the end when all
have experienced the fire of judgment, then every knee will bow and every tongue
will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Phil. 2:10-11).
Everyone will experience the atonement, but those who accept Him later will be
saved like as by fire (1st Cor. 3:15). We are being corrected now to be used in the
Ages to come for the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21). This restoration has not
been spoken of in the past, but God is beginning to reveal His Plan to his people in
a greater way.
In essense, God is the Savior of all men, especially those that believe (1st Tim. 4:10).
There is a special salvation for those that believe, but God will save all men in their
own order (1st Cor. 15:23). Everyone will come in God's order so in the end He will be
the Savior of ALL MEN.
Did Paul say all men? Whoops! Did he mean all believers?
Overcomers will be raised @ the 1st Resurrection to rule with him. Believers will be
rewarded and unbelievers judged @ the Great White Throne. But all will ultimately
be saved.
Yes... all will ultimately be forgiven.
What a God! What a Plan!
Logabe
Yes, he meant all believers, and only believers. The Timothy verse you mentioned really says 'GOD is the savior of all men, specifically those who believe'. In other words the word all is specific to those who believe, not all men.logabe said:
As far as the Corinthian verse you mentioned, yes all will be made alive in Christ; some to glory, some to judgment. His death draws all men to himself, whom he will resurrect (make alive) at the first and second resurrections. Unfortunately for those at the second resurrection who are not written in book of life, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
In a way I agree with fire but it not judgement its refinement, it's part of maturing, I most often think of shadrack meshack and abednego in the fiery furnace in Daniel 3, they made a choice, they were not judged but were found, everyone that bowed and left shadrack meshack and abednego standing alone failed the test.logabe said:
Now consider the letter to luke warm church, the church of the Laodiceans. Rev 3
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire. shadrack meshack and abednego made that purchase, fire is not a trial ---->> fire is obedience. Fire is being refined, a burning off of the dross the impurities, IMO most people today fall on their face in everyday life, before the image. If you've never been in the refiners furnace chances are your luke warm, living the American dream, choosing to be comfortable in the world rather than stepping off the broad road when the opportunity presents itself.
Wisdom takes her stand at the fork in the road and calls out; Proverbs 8:1-2 .
It's a shame that comfort, the shelter our flesh desires many times wins out, just as we see in Dan 3 shelter comes in two forms, one shelters the flesh the other shelters your life.
Eccl 7:12 NIV 84
Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter, but the advantage of wisdom is this:
that wisdom preservers the life of its possessor.
Jer 6:16
16 This is what the Lord says:
“Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls.
But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire,
Romans 10:32 was specifically about Israel, only a remnant of whom will be saved, because idolatry disqualified some.
How does this connect with the passage in Colossians?
How does this connect with the passage in Colossians?
Actually Rom. 10:32 is an answer to the OP "Are all forgiven?"dragonfly said:
Now in response to your statement that only a remnant of Israel will be saved, back up to verse 25/26 and read.
25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say,
“The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
Romans 11:25-26 (NLT)
I know it is hard to see some scriptures with the simple meaning in which they were intended when trying to understand them with an endless torment mindset.
That translation is actually inaccurate. Verse 26 says 'all Israel will be saved [no period] as it is written, 'The deliver will come out of Zion and turn Jacob from ungodliness'. In other words, verse 26 is not a declaration that everybody in Israel will be saved, but that all of the remnant who are Israel will be saved in the same manner, i.e., via the new-covenant removal of their sins.jiggyfly said:
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