I love all who love God's Word but who was Jesus speaking to here?

afaithfulone4u · Mar 10, 2013

Jesus told Nicodemeus:
You MUST be born again to be saved. I love the Jewish people for my salvation came from their unbelief. We must testify to them and cast them out of that old covenant of bondage of the flesh, into the new covenant of the Spirit for we are indebted to them.

Matt 21:42-45
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone {Aka: The Rock, the Law, The Word,The Christ of God,The SEED of God}which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
KJV

Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the FLESH, these are NOT the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
KJV
Gal 4:24-29
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
KJV

veteran · Mar 11, 2013

afaithfulone4u said:
Jesus told Nicodemeus:
You MUST be born again to be saved. I love the Jewish people for my salvation came from their unbelief. We must testify to them and cast them out of that old covenant of bondage of the flesh, into the new covenant of the Spirit for we are indebted to them.

We are indebted to The Father and The Son, for it is They Who presented The Gospel Salvation to the children of Israel, and preserved an elect among them that would believe for the benefit of all peoples and nations that believe on Christ Jesus.

If you want to know the depth of these things, then you will have to be ready to take the bitter parts of God's Truth with the sweet parts. A bitter part is how many not of Israelite heritage crept into Israel's stay long ago, even back to the days of the Canaanite nations, and those are quite a few of the scribes and Pharissees that our Lord Jesus rebuked (like John 8). Jude 1 told us about the idea of the crept in unawares, and our Lord Jesus covered it within the parable of the tares of the field. And it's that which has somewhat to do with what our Lord Jesus said to them in the Matt.21 Scripture about His vineyard and the husbandmen put over it.

afaithfulone4u said:
Matt 21:42-45
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone {Aka: The Rock, the Law, The Word,The Christ of God,The SEED of God}which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
KJV

The "nation" Christ was speaking about is put for the Christian nations which would become the caretakers of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That was actually a prophecy back in Gen.48 involving God's birthright going to Ephraim. Ephraim became the leader over the ten tribes of Israel, as God split the old kingdom into two houses, and gave Ephraim ten tribes to rule over (1 Kings 11 forward). The Jews became a separate house per God's Word.

The ten tribes were scattered out of the holy lands first, and The Gospel would become their heritage in the new lands where God scattered the majority of them. And among them believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus would be joined with them, both becoming part of Christ's Church on earth, i.e., the "nation" which Christ spoke of in that Matt.21 parable. Per Isaiah 5 I think it is, the "house of Israel" is represented by His vineyard, and Judah as His pleasant plant. So that's where He is pulling many of those Matt.21 symbols from.

The majority of the Jews still today represent the house that was separated from The Gospel, as the majority of them still refuse Jesus of Nazareth to this day. Yet some of them were established along with the ten tribes scattering, and have been in The Gospel along with the ten tribes. When our Lord Jesus returns, the faithful from both houses are to be established back together in the holy lands of promise, believing Gentiles joined with them (Ezekiel 37), which leads to your next quote...

afaithfulone4u said:
Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the FLESH, these are NOT the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
KJV
Gal 4:24-29
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
KJV

God's Promised Salvation was first established with a certain seed, the seed of Abraham, and it was included with God's birthright blessings, other promises associated with it. This is why Apostle Paul in Galatians said all those of Faith like Abraham have become the children of Abraham. It is about spiritual adoption by Faith on Christ Jesus as The Saviour. The Promise given Abraham would then be transported to his son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob. Thus our Heavenly Father is called The God of Abraham and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob. From Jacob it would be passed on to his son Joseph, and from Joseph to his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, Ephraim the younger being given the headship. Judah was to remain chief ruler, and so it is among the ten tribes still today in the Christian west (in Europe mainly).

afaithfulone4u · Mar 11, 2013

veteran said:
We are indebted to The Father and The Son, for it is They Who presented The Gospel Salvation to the children of Israel, and preserved an elect among them that would believe for the benefit of all peoples and nations that believe on Christ Jesus.

If you want to know the depth of these things, then you will have to be ready to take the bitter parts of God's Truth with the sweet parts. A bitter part is how many not of Israelite heritage crept into Israel's stay long ago, even back to the days of the Canaanite nations, and those are quite a few of the scribes and Pharissees that our Lord Jesus rebuked (like John 8). Jude 1 told us about the idea of the crept in unawares, and our Lord Jesus covered it within the parable of the tares of the field. And it's that which has somewhat to do with what our Lord Jesus said to them in the Matt.21 Scripture about His vineyard and the husbandmen put over it.

The "nation" Christ was speaking about is put for the Christian nations which would become the caretakers of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That was actually a prophecy back in Gen.48 involving God's birthright going to Ephraim. Ephraim became the leader over the ten tribes of Israel, as God split the old kingdom into two houses, and gave Ephraim ten tribes to rule over (1 Kings 11 forward). The Jews became a separate house per God's Word.

The ten tribes were scattered out of the holy lands first, and The Gospel would become their heritage in the new lands where God scattered the majority of them. And among them believing Gentiles on Christ Jesus would be joined with them, both becoming part of Christ's Church on earth, i.e., the "nation" which Christ spoke of in that Matt.21 parable. Per Isaiah 5 I think it is, the "house of Israel" is represented by His vineyard, and Judah as His pleasant plant. So that's where He is pulling many of those Matt.21 symbols from.

The majority of the Jews still today represent the house that was separated from The Gospel, as the majority of them still refuse Jesus of Nazareth to this day. Yet some of them were established along with the ten tribes scattering, and have been in The Gospel along with the ten tribes. When our Lord Jesus returns, the faithful from both houses are to be established back together in the holy lands of promise, believing Gentiles joined with them (Ezekiel 37), which leads to your next quote...

God's Promised Salvation was first established with a certain seed, the seed of Abraham, and it was included with God's birthright blessings, other promises associated with it. This is why Apostle Paul in Galatians said all those of Faith like Abraham have become the children of Abraham. It is about spiritual adoption by Faith on Christ Jesus as The Saviour. The Promise given Abraham would then be transported to his son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob. Thus our Heavenly Father is called The God of Abraham and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob. From Jacob it would be passed on to his son Joseph, and from Joseph to his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, Ephraim the younger being given the headship. Judah was to remain chief ruler, and so it is among the ten tribes still today in the Christian west (in Europe mainly).

Without doubt God is to be praised for our salvation... but I am referring to what the Bible says here:
Rom 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
KJV

Jesus is the Promised Seed and the believing Jews and Gentiles are the two sticks in ONE HAND that will become restored Israel. God has only spared 7,000 OT saints that were not here for Jesus' ministry but came out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection fulfilly Eze.37's dry bones that were released once the sin dept was paid and will be saved by grace according to 1Kings 19:18, Romans 11:4 but are Devout Jews . They are the remnant that will not go through the last 3-1/2 yrs of the GT but will die in the earthquake in Jerusalem just before the son's of God are birthed Rev. 12.
All others must receive Christ.
And we are Esther the new covenant Israel who's roots have been hidden in Christ for there is no geneology in the one new man. The twelve tribes were of Jew and Gentile mother's and one father... so are the son's of Jacob in Christ of Jew and Gentile mother's yet one Father. We are of free Jerusalem from above and we are spiritual Jews

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
KJV

The flesh counts for nothing we must be born again of the Spirit says JESUS. And if you read you will see that here in the story of Joseph/Jesus who's coat of many colors represents that he will rule over every nation, tongue of every color, who is sent ahead to spare his brother's and who are his brothers? You'll be surprised to see he does not say the Jews, for we must be born again to be his brother.
Matt 12:47-50
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
KJV

And if you read this below with spiritual eyes you will see that the birthright is transfered when Israel refuses to bless the firstborn son(fleshly Israel)

Gen 48:8-20
8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see{spiritually blinded}. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.
11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.
12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.
14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
KJV
Did you see the Blessing transfer, from old Israel to Joseph's/Jesus youngest.
The firstborn is always referring to those of the flesh, such as Cain, Esau, natural Jerusalem that is now in bondage to sin, who were clearly led of their carnal man. In fact, those who are in Christ Jesus are being MADE into the image of Christ.... as THE FIRST BORN to receive the promise. But another suprise if you read the story of Joseph, you will see that Benjamin which I believe will be the believing Jews in Christ, shall receive More that the other sons for they are Joseph's/Jesus true full brother's natural and spiritual. The Seed of Abraham is Christ who came down through Isaac's lineage

Gal 3:19
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
KJV
Gal 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ HAVE put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

veteran · Mar 13, 2013

afaithfulone4u said:
Without doubt God is to be praised for our salvation... but I am referring to what the Bible says here:
Rom 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
KJV

That verse is in context with Rom.15:23-29, which was about the Gentile believers in Macedonia and Achaia having made a contribution (donation) for the poorer brethren in Jerusalem. It is not about some idea that Gentile believers owe Jews a living. It's about helping poorer brethren, and believing Jews that are able to help are just as much under that commitment to alms giving among all believers as believing Gentiles are.

afaithfulone4u said:
Jesus is the Promised Seed and the believing Jews and Gentiles are the two sticks in ONE HAND that will become restored Israel. God has only spared 7,000 OT saints that were not here for Jesus' ministry but came out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection fulfilly Eze.37's dry bones that were released once the sin dept was paid and will be saved by grace according to 1Kings 19:18, Romans 11:4 but are Devout Jews . They are the remnant that will not go through the last 3-1/2 yrs of the GT but will die in the earthquake in Jerusalem just before the son's of God are birthed Rev. 12.
All others must receive Christ.

Well, you're wrong about that two sticks idea. Per Ezekiel 37 the two sticks to be joined at Christ's return are the two separate 'houses' of split Israel, which is why one part of the stick is shown in Judah's hand for his brethren of the house of Judah (Jews), and the other half of the stick is in Ephraim's hand to represent the house of Israel or ten tribes. But believing Gentiles will be joined with them per the OT prophets.

Jewish scholars are well aware that the ten tribes of Israel were separated from them long ago, and have to this day never been joined back with them. Some of them understand the Scripture about their eventualy joining back with Judah, and then some of them regard the ten tribes as lost forever. In the Book of Amos, God said He will gather the ten tribes of the house of Israel, and not the least grain will fall to the ground.

afaithfulone4u said:
And we are Esther the new covenant Israel who's roots have been hidden in Christ for there is no geneology in the one new man. The twelve tribes were of Jew and Gentile mother's and one father... so are the son's of Jacob in Christ of Jew and Gentile mother's yet one Father. We are of free Jerusalem from above and we are spiritual Jews

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
KJV

The flesh counts for nothing we must be born again of the Spirit says JESUS. And if you read you will see that here in the story of Joseph/Jesus who's coat of many colors represents that he will rule over every nation, tongue of every color, who is sent ahead to spare his brother's and who are his brothers? You'll be surprised to see he does not say the Jews, for we must be born again to be his brother.
Matt 12:47-50
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
KJV

Well, you've got a much different Bible than I have then, and likewise a different Bible than what the Jews were given by God long ago, because God chose the seed of Israel long ago to be caretakers of The Gospel, and those of the seed of Israel He preserved in it have been those main caretakers all along, and still are today. In that I speak mainly of the house of Israel of the separated ten tribes, believing Jews with them, believing Gentiles then joined in that. The nations are still going to exist after Christ's gathering of His Church; Zechariah 14 is one of the places that simply reveals that. The New Testament Books are to be understood WITH The Old Testament Books together as one, and not by trying to separate everything in the Old Testament as if it was all history, because it is not all history yet.

afaithfulone4u said:
And if you read this below with spiritual eyes you will see that the birthright is transfered when Israel refuses to bless the firstborn son(fleshly Israel)

Gen 48:8-20
8 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see{spiritually blinded}. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.
11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.
12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.
14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
KJV
Did you see the Blessing transfer, from old Israel to Joseph's/Jesus youngest.

You're confused. Jacob transferred God's Birthright blessings directly to Ephraim and Manasseh there in Genesis 48. And it was further recorded in 1 Chronicles...

1 Chr 5:1-2
1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's

(KJV)

Judah was given to remain the chief ruler, and have care of God's law (as Gen.49:10 reveals also, all the way up to Christ's second coming).

God's Birthright blessings, which included care of The Gospel, was last transferred to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh per that 1 Chronicles 5 Scripture, simply because there is NO other transfer of it written. Those who think it was changed again with the coming of The New Covenant simply have not understood just 'who' The New Covenant was first accepted by in majority (ten tribes in the Christian west along with believing Gentiles), and that's where The Gospel was then preached from to the majority of the rest of the nations outside the west. Lot of Gentiles in Asia Minor and Europe who think they are Gentiles really are not, but have a heritage from the ten lost tribes. Representatives of Ephraim and Judah are still in the west ruling like how God said it would be. You will learn about this most likely when our Lord Jesus returns, but probably not before, unless you study your Bible deeper.

afaithfulone4u said:
The firstborn is always referring to those of the flesh, such as Cain, Esau, natural Jerusalem that is now in bondage to sin, who were clearly led of their carnal man. In fact, those who are in Christ Jesus are being MADE into the image of Christ.... as THE FIRST BORN to receive the promise. But another suprise if you read the story of Joseph, you will see that Benjamin which I believe will be the believing Jews in Christ, shall receive More that the other sons for they are Joseph's/Jesus true full brother's natural and spiritual. The Seed of Abraham is Christ who came down through Isaac's lineage

Gal 3:19
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
KJV
Gal 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ HAVE put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

There still is... literal Israel of the seed which God chose, and then there is the adoption of sons as spiritual Israel of the Gentiles. You cannot just stop at Romans 9 when Apostle Paul covered what I'm speaking about later in Romans 11, and in several other Scriptures.

afaithfulone4u · Mar 13, 2013

veteran,
Yes Israel is being restored but she will be those in Christ rather Jew or Gentile male or female for we have one Head and that is Christ. There will be a 7,000 remnant of OT saints who were before Jesus' ministry who also will be saved by grace. Restoration of God's man is what we must concentrate on for that is what SALVAGE means.When you restore something, you try to use as many of the Original parts as you can, but then you must use reproductions.
What do you believe that you are being trained up to do? Aren't you supposed to be GROWING into the image of Jesus who is a Jew as the one new man who will be kings and preists of God? Abraham was not called a Jew until AFTER God called him, he came out of Eygpt, meaning an ungodly nation.
We are the seed of the promised son/Son who came through Isaac and is called Jacob/Israel. The land is the woman and the children are the sons of God. The 144,000 are believers rather JEW or Gentile who followed Christ and were found blameless, they are the holy ones, the 12 tribes. There is no natural bloodline in Christ we are spiritual brethren and sisters adopted by the Spirit and there are two Jerusalems. One is our mother the free woman Gal.4:26 meaning heavenly Jerusalem who is of the promise and has a husband and there is Jerusalem of the earth who is in bondage with her children for they have been sold into slavery by God when He divorced her/Jerusalem that is now on earth. And yes those in Christ are one of the two sticks, Many of the saints who had died before Christ's ministry came out of their graves and the dry bones came to life as the Spirit was given to them, these are the first fruits that were released from the bondage of death once the sin debt had been paid which I believe to be Devout Jews and they are one stick and the other is those in Christ Read your scripture
Christ died(old covenant Word was forsaken on the cross- Over by God) so that she/natural Jerusalem that is Old Israel who is blinded and dying(story of Joseph)could belong to another husband in Christ the new covenant who was resurrected on the 3rd day. Jesus made it clear.. We Must be born again of the Spirit to inherit the kingdom of God which means to inherit the bride New Jersusalem and to rule and reign with Christ on the earth. Those led of their flesh can not inherit the promised land for they are DEAD. And yes Joseph is a type for Jesus who was sold into slavery by his own brothers, Love by his Father, coat of many colors was given to him by His Father because he would rule all of Egypt and the world one day for God has put him in charge of all the food(natural & spiritual) for sustaining LIFE.
And yes our tithes which is represented by giving back to God a portion that He has given us and it is for all churches to do and is that little collection plate that they pass around on sundays. That is for our debtors for our salvation but only to the saints, not to those who are ungodly.

1 Tim 1:4
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
KJV
Eph 2:11-15
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
KJV
Isa 50:1
50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
KJV

Actions of the children of a nation, make that nation either faithful or unfaithful to God but the land is called the WOMAN, she is to nurish her children in the wisdom of God and in Justice teaching them the ways of God for the Mother- lands own sake.

Rev 14:1-5
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
KJV
Rev 7:3-4
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV
Only after Jesus' resurrection could the Spirit be given to the dry bones.
Matt 27:50-54
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
KJV

Ezek 37:11-38:1
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV

JB_Reformed Baptist · Mar 18, 2013

Where's that to be found?

afaithfulone4u · Mar 18, 2013

Brother,
Are you asking about this?

1 Kings 19:18
18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1-7
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
KJV

This remnant must be the same 7,000 souls of OT saints reserved by God and I believe them to be those who came out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection in the earthquake fulfilling Eze 37 of the dry bones which also describe the earthquake and the Spirit of God being put in them. Jesus went into hell and brought them out. I believe they are devout Jews that live in Jerusalem now. If they came out of their graves, it makes no sense for them to go right back into their grave and there is no mention of them going to heaven with Jesus. There is a hint in the scriptures where Peter asks Jesus what is to happen to John and Jesus says: What is it to you if I have him tarry until I come?
So that was hinting that if God wants someone to never die, they won't. We believe that Enoch did not die or Elijah, correct?
Ezek 37:7
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
KJV

Just after the two witnesses go up{THIS WILL FULFILL THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS TO ASSEMBLE THE PEOPLE OF GOD}, Then the 7,000 will die to their flesh bodies in an earthquake in Jerusalem{THIS WILL FULFILL THE DAY OF ATONEMENT}then the seventh trump sounds just before the son's of God are birthed in Rev.12 and they are Caught Up and their bodies will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from the earthly tent to their heavenly tabernacle{FULFILLING THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES}, for it is always Jew first.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth{TITHE} part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant {THIS REMNANT DID NOT MAKE THE HEAVENLY HOPE AND WILL GO THROUGH THE GT}were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV
Rev 10:6-7
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV

Rev 11:18-12:10
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead{SPIRITUALLY DEAD}, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The Birth of the Body of Christ who will rule and reign with Christ for the 1,000 yrs clean up, Son's of God in the image of Christ who will inherit the Bride heavenly Jerusalem as spoken in Isa 62:4

Revelation 12
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman{HEAVENLY JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER} clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days{3-1/2 yrs of the GT.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

God is chosing out the rulers of the new earth and is training them up now before the foundation of the new earth as His Son and all who are saved shall live as the meek, they shall inherit the rest of the earth outside the Bride who the son's marry.
Isa 62:4-5
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
KJV

veteran · Mar 18, 2013

afaithfulone4u said:
veteran,
Yes Israel is being restored but she will be those in Christ rather Jew or Gentile male or female for we have one Head and that is Christ. There will be a 7,000 remnant of OT saints who were before Jesus' ministry who also will be saved by grace. Restoration of God's man is what we must concentrate on for that is what SALVAGE means.When you restore something, you try to use as many of the Original parts as you can, but then you must use reproductions.

I do not adhere to Jewish traditions that try to omit God's Promises and prophecies specifically to the ten tribed "house of Israel", mainly because it's that house with which Christ established in The Gospel joined with believing Gentiles. Those are separate from the Jews, although they include believing Jews that were established with them in the history of the western Christian nations.

God promised to restore Israel to its original inheritances in final. See Ezekiel 47 & 48. That's also what the Ezekiel 37 chapter is about. It has not happened yet, and won't until Christ's future coming and reign on earth, from the New Jerusalem.

afaithfulone4u said:
What do you believe that you are being trained up to do? Aren't you supposed to be GROWING into the image of Jesus who is a Jew as the one new man who will be kings and preists of God? Abraham was not called a Jew until AFTER God called him, he came out of Eygpt, meaning an ungodly nation.

Only ONE died on the cross for the remission of sins, and His Name is Jesus Christ. We cannot do that, nor become our own Christs.

Nor was Jesus a Jew; He was a Nazarene, from Nazareth, a place that the Jews barely recognized as having anything good come from it.

Abraham was not a Jew either. The label of Jew didn't even begin to be used until a small remnant of the "house of Judah" (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) returned from the 70 years Babylon captivity (per the 100 A.D. Jewish historian Josephus). Josephus said all that lived in the land of Judea took that title of 'Jew'. That title never Biblically applied to the ten lost tribes that were separated from the house of Judah after Solomon's days (1 Kings 11 forward). As a matter of Biblical fact, and history, the two houses of Israel actually held war against each other, until God removed all of the ten tribed house of Israel out of the land to Assyria and the land of the Medes, and further scattered them from there.

afaithfulone4u said:
We are the seed of the promised son/Son who came through Isaac and is called Jacob/Israel. The land is the woman and the children are the sons of God. The 144,000 are believers rather JEW or Gentile who followed Christ and were found blameless, they are the holy ones, the 12 tribes. There is no natural bloodline in Christ we are spiritual brethren and sisters adopted by the Spirit and there are two Jerusalems.

All those of Faith on Jesus Christ are brethren, spiritually, that's true, and His Church is one, that's true. But God's Promises to Israel are to His chosen seed of Israel. Some of those promises, like The Gospel, have believing Gentiles included with Israel, but some promises are only for Israelites born of the seed, still today. Israel in the middleast becoming a nation again in 1948 is an example in our times of one of those promises being fulfilled for the last days. Likewise with the future restoration of the two houses of Israel joined back together, back to their original inheritances of land, that is specifically to them, and it will include believing Gentiles along with them. For those of both Israelite birth and Gentile birth that deny Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, they are not part of that, yet they will continue to exist throughout Christ's future reign, as the end of Zechariah 14 does reveal.

afaithfulone4u said:
One is our mother the free woman Gal.4:26 meaning heavenly Jerusalem who is of the promise and has a husband and there is Jerusalem of the earth who is in bondage with her children for they have been sold into slavery by God when He divorced her/Jerusalem that is now on earth.

I read nowhere that God said He divorced Zion, the hill He has chosen forever to dwell. It's the ten tribed house of Israel that He gave a bill of divorce to (Jeremiah 3). The Jerusalem on earth today is in bondage, but it will one day be released from that when our Lord Jesus returns to setup His Kingdom reign from there. That's when He will bring to the Heavenly Jerusalem to earth, in the future. So Paul's Message there is about waiting for it, and remaining steadfast in Christ, and not of the Jerusalem that's still in bondage today. Paul is specifically referring to the two Covenants there, the Old vs. the New.

And yes those in Christ are one of the two sticks, Many of the saints who had died before Christ's ministry came out of their graves and the dry bones came to life as the Spirit was given to them, these are the first fruits that were released from the bondage of death once the sin debt had been paid which I believe to be Devout Jews and they are one stick and the other is those in Christ Read your scripture

The two sticks being joined in Ezekiel 37 is still yet future, has nothing to do with those who resurrected at Christ's crucifixion, except they will in that future joining when Jesus returns. That "dry bones" idea must be held in context with the main Message of the rest of the Ezekiel 37 chapter, which is about the future restoration of all of Israel (i.e., believers of both houses of Israel) back to their original inheritances of the land, under Christ's future reign.

The "stick of Ephraim" there is specific to the lost ten tribed "house of Israel". God gave Ephraim ten tribes to rule over per 1 Kings 11, and they were then separated from the "house of Judah" (3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). God removed the ten tribes out of the land first, about 120 years prior to Judah's later Babylon captivity. The ten tribes as a majority never returned, and were further scattered.

I do not hold to Jewish traditions that try to omit the ten tribed house of Israel out of God's Promises. Instead, it was to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh that the main portion of God's Birthright wound upon, and is still in effect today because it includes care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" and his brother Manasseh also 'great', per the Gen.48 prophecy. It was fulfilled in the Christian west with the Christian nations of history, with believing Gentiles graffed in with them; and then to all peoples and nations outside the west that also would believe on Christ Jesus.

Christ died(old covenant Word was forsaken on the cross- Over by God) so that she/natural Jerusalem that is Old Israel who is blinded and dying(story of Joseph)could belong to another husband in Christ the new covenant who was resurrected on the 3rd day. Jesus made it clear.. We Must be born again of the Spirit to inherit the kingdom of God which means to inherit the bride New Jersusalem and to rule and reign with Christ on the earth. Those led of their flesh can not inherit the promised land for they are DEAD. And yes Joseph is a type for Jesus who was sold into slavery by his own brothers, Love by his Father, coat of many colors was given to him by His Father because he would rule all of Egypt and the world one day for God has put him in charge of all the food(natural & spiritual) for sustaining LIFE.

Joseph's captivity and trials are representative of God scattering the rebellious "house of Israel" to the nations where they would get the fulness of their rebellious Baal worship against Him, with a remnant of them that would know the Truth and when it was time, The Gospel would go to them. That happened in the Christian west when The Gospel took hold in Asia Minor and Europe, founding the western Christian nations of history. The eventual joining of both houses again in the final restoration is represented by Joseph joined back with all his brethren. Believing Gentiles of course will be included in that, per the OT prophets.

And yes our tithes which is represented by giving back to God a portion that He has given us and it is for all churches to do and is that little collection plate that they pass around on sundays. That is for our debtors for our salvation but only to the saints, not to those who are ungodly.

For the saints first, but for the needy also, whomever is in need, for how will we convert and bring the ungodly to Christ if not also helping their basic needs? This is why it's customary to feed and clothe the needy of the ungodly too so they will be more apt to hear and understand and believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 Tim 1:4
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
KJV

That verse is often taken out of the context Paul gave it, because the geneaologies written in God's Word are not endless genealogies. Even our Lord Jesus was born of the seed of the house of David to fulfill that per God's promises, and that has not changed. Today there are still kings of queens reiging upon thrones in the Christian west, and that won't change either, even though Satan and his workers have been trying to totally annihilate them per history. To understand that you cannot just throw the OT Books away, for there's yet many promises still to be fulfilled today, and even after Christ's future coming. A believer should want the whole Loaf of Bread, not just crumbs.

Eph 2:11-15
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
KJV

Paul was speaking that to Gentiles believers on Christ Jesus. It's about how they as adopted sons have become part of the "commonwealth of Israel", and have inheritance in the promises God gave to Israel. That is fulfilled in The Gospel going primarily to the lost ten tribes scattered in the west that became the western Christian nations, Gentiles joined with them under Christ Jesus (remember the promise to Ephraim?).

Isa 50:1
50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
KJV

Actions of the children of a nation, make that nation either faithful or unfaithful to God but the land is called the WOMAN, she is to nurish her children in the wisdom of God and in Justice teaching them the ways of God for the Mother- lands own sake.

There's a lot more there in those Isaiah 49 & 50 chapters. The ones God gave a bill of divorce to were the ten tribed "house of Israel", first pointed to back at Isaiah 49 in regard to those scattered to the Isles (also see Jer.3 about that bill of divorce). God did not spiritually divorce the "house of Judah" (Jews), which is why they still maintain the old Israelite traditions that the majority of the ten tribes lost. Yet care of The Gospel went to the ten tribes under Ephraim, as prophesied.

Rev 14:1-5
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
KJV

Rev 7:3-4
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
KJV

Only after Jesus' resurrection could the Spirit be given to the dry bones.

You're still trying to apply that Ezek.37 "dry bones" concept to the time of Christ's first coming when if you'll go back and read all that chapter the "house of Judah" is included. That's yet to happen today, because the majority of Judah today still refuses Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. You're just listening to some fancy hireling that reveals lack of OT Bible study along with the NT.

Matt 27:50-54
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
KJV

Ezek 37:11-38:1
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV

Like I said, you're just listening to some fancy hireling who saw that "dry bones" idea from Ezekiel 37 while disregarding the REST of that chapter, which is only for the time of Christ's future SECOND coming, and the joining of BOTH sticks of Israel back together, restored to their original inheritances, but under Christ's direct reign when He returns. Today the majority of the Jews truly are those "dry bones", but so likewise are many unbelievers of the "house of Israel" too. Lot of those of lost Israel scattered in the west don't even know they have a heritage from the ten lost tribes, so they are going be like "dry bones" waking up then too!

afaithfulone4u · Mar 18, 2013

veteran said:
I do not adhere to Jewish traditions that try to omit God's Promises and prophecies specifically to the ten tribed "house of Israel", mainly because it's that house with which Christ established in The Gospel joined with believing Gentiles. Those are separate from the Jews, although they include believing Jews that were established with them in the history of the western Christian nations.

God promised to restore Israel to its original inheritances in final. See Ezekiel 47 & 48. That's also what the Ezekiel 37 chapter is about. It has not happened yet, and won't until Christ's future coming and reign on earth, from the New Jerusalem.

Veteran,

We are the spiritual Jews who are of the promise Seed of Abraham in Christ if Christ dwelleth in you.
Gal 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV
Heb 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
KJV
Rom 4:13-14
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
KJV

Click to expand...

Only ONE died on the cross for the remission of sins, and His Name is Jesus Christ. We cannot do that, nor become our own Christs.

Nor was Jesus a Jew; He was a Nazarene, from Nazareth, a place that the Jews barely recognized as having anything good come from it.

Abraham was not a Jew either. The label of Jew didn't even begin to be used until a small remnant of the "house of Judah" (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) returned from the 70 years Babylon captivity (per the 100 A.D. Jewish historian Josephus). Josephus said all that lived in the land of Judea took that title of 'Jew'. That title never Biblically applied to the ten lost tribes that were separated from the house of Judah after Solomon's days (1 Kings 11 forward). As a matter of Biblical fact, and history, the two houses of Israel actually held war against each other, until God removed all of the ten tribed house of Israel out of the land to Assyria and the land of the Medes, and further scattered them from there.

Veteran,

Abraham was the Father of Jacob, do you consider Jacob a Jew? Of course Abraham was called out from his father's house of Ur which is still an ungodly nation(EGYPT) just as we are being called out of Egypt from our fleshly father's house unto our spiritual Father's house. Jesus not a Jew??, why he is the King of the Jews and they are his natural brothers of the flesh that is, but not of their bloodline by the Spirit unless of course they are in Christ.

Matt 2:2-6
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
KJV
Gen 17:19-21
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
KJV
Acts 7:8
8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
KJV

See Abraham IS the father of many nations as we are seeing in Christ Jesus, but the holy ones the 144,000 the 12 tribes will be of Jew and Gentile natural mother's, yet one Father God as restored Israel. Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. YOU MUST be born again!!
John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
KJV
Rom 9:6-10
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
KJV

All those of Faith on Jesus Christ are brethren, spiritually, that's true, and His Church is one, that's true. But God's Promises to Israel are to His chosen seed of Israel. Some of those promises, like The Gospel, have believing Gentiles included with Israel, but some promises are only for Israelites born of the seed, still today. Israel in the middleast becoming a nation again in 1948 is an example in our times of one of those promises being fulfilled for the last days. Likewise with the future restoration of the two houses of Israel joined back together, back to their original inheritances of land, that is specifically to them, and it will include believing Gentiles along with them. For those of both Israelite birth and Gentile birth that deny Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, they are not part of that, yet they will continue to exist throughout Christ's future reign, as the end of Zechariah 14 does reveal.

Veteran,

Do you know your bloodline of the natural sense? Most of the world's natual bloodline has mingled and who knows if they are a natural Jew or not ? We are Esther and her roots are hidden and we are told there is NO natural genealogy in Christ for God is making us into one New man being Jew and Gentile to become kings and priest to rule upon the earth and these will be the 12 tribes CHOSEN by God.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

I read nowhere that God said He divorced Zion, the hill He has chosen forever to dwell. It's the ten tribed house of Israel that He gave a bill of divorce to (Jeremiah 3). The Jerusalem on earth today is in bondage, but it will one day be released from that when our Lord Jesus returns to setup His Kingdom reign from there. That's when He will bring to the Heavenly Jerusalem to earth, in the future. So Paul's Message there is about waiting for it, and remaining steadfast in Christ, and not of the Jerusalem that's still in bondage today. Paul is specifically referring to the two Covenants there, the Old vs. the New.

Veteran,
Zion is heavenly Jerusalem and no He has not divorced our mother, but He has divorced natural Israel and only reserved 7,000. There will be survivors very few it says but the Elect's days will be shortened and who are the elect? They will be the 7,000 OTsaints saved by grace and those worthy to escape
Matt 24:22
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV
Col 3:12
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
KJV
Mark 13:27
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

I think the problem that we are having here is that not all who claim to be Christians have made the Word of God the Lord of their life and they will not make the heavenly hope. They will be part of the saved nations who were the 5 unwise virgins or that said Lord Lord but he will not Recognize them as part of HIS holy body.
That is the issue. All who did not move forward into the new birth getting washed in the Word and became Bold for the Word to love others with the Word and to renew their minds in Christ.... these are not part of the heavenly hope. They loved their sinful life and did not separate themselves unto God and may be saved but they were not worthy to escape. These will come back in the GWTJ when all of the books are opened and will be part of the saved nations if they are in the book of life or into the lake of fire if they were unsaved.

Here are the three destinations:

1.THOSE WHO INHERIT THE CITY WHICH IS THE BRIDE:
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

2.SAVED NATIONS OUTSIDE THE HOLY CITY WHO WERE SAVED BUT NOT FOUND WORTHY:
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

3.NOTICE THE FIRST THREE ATTRIBUTES ARE NOT IN THE 2ND GROUP? THESE ARE THE UNSAVED, THOSE WHO TAKE THE MARK BEING FEARFUL AND THOSE ABOMINABLE
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

God is no respector of persons and we have all been called to try out for the race as Paul put it. God is chosing a people out for Himself from the Gentiles.
I really don't have the time to answer any more, but may return to respond if I make the time.

The two sticks being joined in Ezekiel 37 is still yet future, has nothing to do with those who resurrected at Christ's crucifixion, except they will in that future joining when Jesus returns. That "dry bones" idea must be held in context with the main Message of the rest of the Ezekiel 37 chapter, which is about the future restoration of all of Israel (i.e., believers of both houses of Israel) back to their original inheritances of the land, under Christ's future reign.

The "stick of Ephraim" there is specific to the lost ten tribed "house of Israel". God gave Ephraim ten tribes to rule over per 1 Kings 11, and they were then separated from the "house of Judah" (3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). God removed the ten tribes out of the land first, about 120 years prior to Judah's later Babylon captivity. The ten tribes as a majority never returned, and were further scattered.

I do not hold to Jewish traditions that try to omit the ten tribed house of Israel out of God's Promises. Instead, it was to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh that the main portion of God's Birthright wound upon, and is still in effect today because it includes care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" and his brother Manasseh also 'great', per the Gen.48 prophecy. It was fulfilled in the Christian west with the Christian nations of history, with believing Gentiles graffed in with them; and then to all peoples and nations outside the west that also would believe on Christ Jesus.

Joseph's captivity and trials are representative of God scattering the rebellious "house of Israel" to the nations where they would get the fulness of their rebellious Baal worship against Him, with a remnant of them that would know the Truth and when it was time, The Gospel would go to them. That happened in the Christian west when The Gospel took hold in Asia Minor and Europe, founding the western Christian nations of history. The eventual joining of both houses again in the final restoration is represented by Joseph joined back with all his brethren. Believing Gentiles of course will be included in that, per the OT prophets.

For the saints first, but for the needy also, whomever is in need, for how will we convert and bring the ungodly to Christ if not also helping their basic needs? This is why it's customary to feed and clothe the needy of the ungodly too so they will be more apt to hear and understand and believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That verse is often taken out of the context Paul gave it, because the geneaologies written in God's Word are not endless genealogies. Even our Lord Jesus was born of the seed of the house of David to fulfill that per God's promises, and that has not changed. Today there are still kings of queens reiging upon thrones in the Christian west, and that won't change either, even though Satan and his workers have been trying to totally annihilate them per history. To understand that you cannot just throw the OT Books away, for there's yet many promises still to be fulfilled today, and even after Christ's future coming. A believer should want the whole Loaf of Bread, not just crumbs.

Paul was speaking that to Gentiles believers on Christ Jesus. It's about how they as adopted sons have become part of the "commonwealth of Israel", and have inheritance in the promises God gave to Israel. That is fulfilled in The Gospel going primarily to the lost ten tribes scattered in the west that became the western Christian nations, Gentiles joined with them under Christ Jesus (remember the promise to Ephraim?).

There's a lot more there in those Isaiah 49 & 50 chapters. The ones God gave a bill of divorce to were the ten tribed "house of Israel", first pointed to back at Isaiah 49 in regard to those scattered to the Isles (also see Jer.3 about that bill of divorce). God did not spiritually divorce the "house of Judah" (Jews), which is why they still maintain the old Israelite traditions that the majority of the ten tribes lost. Yet care of The Gospel went to the ten tribes under Ephraim, as prophesied.

You're still trying to apply that Ezek.37 "dry bones" concept to the time of Christ's first coming when if you'll go back and read all that chapter the "house of Judah" is included. That's yet to happen today, because the majority of Judah today still refuses Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. You're just listening to some fancy hireling that reveals lack of OT Bible study along with the NT.

Like I said, you're just listening to some fancy hireling who saw that "dry bones" idea from Ezekiel 37 while disregarding the REST of that chapter, which is only for the time of Christ's future SECOND coming, and the joining of BOTH sticks of Israel back together, restored to their original inheritances, but under Christ's direct reign when He returns. Today the majority of the Jews truly are those "dry bones", but so likewise are many unbelievers of the "house of Israel" too. Lot of those of lost Israel scattered in the west don't even know they have a heritage from the ten lost tribes, so they are going be like "dry bones" waking up then too!

I have never heard the dry bones taught from anyone other than the Spirit of God who has shown it to me. Show me the resurrection of them in scripture please. There are two resurrections mentioned the First and the Second is the only ones. Those who came out of their graves were part of the First fruits but there are two more spoken of in Rev. So please show in scripture were they come out

I do want to add that I love the Jewish people and never do I think that the church replaced them, but I do know that it was the covenant that was replaced and for their benefit. However if they do not receive Christ to enter into the new covenant for forgiveness of sins and are judged under the Old covenant that no man can keep, THEN they will be destroyed.
That is why it is so important for us to bring the gospel to them to cast them out of the old into their new to save them. If they did not need to receive Jesus then Jesus would not have said YOU Must be born again to be saved. He would not have come to them first and there would be no Jews in the body of Christ. And if they were seperate from the body of Christ, then God would not have said He spared 7,000 OT saints for Himself.

JB_Reformed Baptist · Mar 18, 2013

afaithfulone4u said:
Brother,
Are you asking about this?

1 Kings 19:18
18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1-7
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
KJV

This remnant must be the same 7,000 souls of OT saints reserved by God and I believe them to be those who came out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection in the earthquake fulfilling Eze 37 of the dry bones which also describe the earthquake and the Spirit of God being put in them. Jesus went into hell and brought them out. I believe they are devout Jews that live in Jerusalem now. If they came out of their graves, it makes no sense for them to go right back into their grave and there is no mention of them going to heaven with Jesus. There is a hint in the scriptures where Peter asks Jesus what is to happen to John and Jesus says: What is it to you if I have him tarry until I come?
So that was hinting that if God wants someone to never die, they won't. We believe that Enoch did not die or Elijah, correct?
Ezek 37:7
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
KJV

Just after the two witnesses go up{THIS WILL FULFILL THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS TO ASSEMBLE THE PEOPLE OF GOD}, Then the 7,000 will die to their flesh bodies in an earthquake in Jerusalem{THIS WILL FULFILL THE DAY OF ATONEMENT}then the seventh trump sounds just before the son's of God are birthed in Rev.12 and they are Caught Up and their bodies will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from the earthly tent to their heavenly tabernacle{FULFILLING THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES}, for it is always Jew first.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth{TITHE} part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant {THIS REMNANT DID NOT MAKE THE HEAVENLY HOPE AND WILL GO THROUGH THE GT}were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV
Rev 10:6-7
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV

Rev 11:18-12:10
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead{SPIRITUALLY DEAD}, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The Birth of the Body of Christ who will rule and reign with Christ for the 1,000 yrs clean up, Son's of God in the image of Christ who will inherit the Bride heavenly Jerusalem as spoken in Isa 62:4

Revelation 12
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman{HEAVENLY JERUSALEM OUR MOTHER} clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days{3-1/2 yrs of the GT.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

God is chosing out the rulers of the new earth and is training them up now before the foundation of the new earth as His Son and all who are saved shall live as the meek, they shall inherit the rest of the earth outside the Bride who the son's marry.
Isa 62:4-5
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
KJV

Thanks for responding. But I took my Que from your title, so I think I confounded myself. :blink:

veteran · Mar 19, 2013

Quotes by afaithfulone4u

Veteran,
We are the spiritual Jews who are of the promise Seed of Abraham in Christ if Christ dwelleth in you.

Gal 3:27-29

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

KJV

Heb 11:8-10

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a
strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs
with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

KJV

Rom 4:13-14

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world,
was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the
righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

KJV

And I believe those Scriptures above very much, as written. But what you're failing to understand is that God's Salvation Plan of The Gospel was always first BY PROMISE to Abraham and his seed, before the law. Even within the spiritiual Israel concept of Rom.9 Paul covered that specific point about the seed of Isaac. God promised His Salvation would go through Isaac, and so it was, and has been. But not for them only of the seed who believe, but for all... who believe as Abraham did, by Faith. This is also the difference between the remnant seed of Israel according to the election of grace per Rom.11:1-5 vs. the unbelieving seed of Israel that God blinded, per Paul there in Romans 11.

We as Gentile believers on Christ Jesus cannot annul what God already afore-promised them. Nor should we want to, because He is indebted to fulfill His promises He gave. If He failed in that then His Salvation would not be full. This is why He said in Jer.31 that if the ordinances of the lights of the sun by day and moon by night could ever depart from Him, then the seed of Israel also would cease from being a nation before Him for ever (Jer.31:35-36).

I don't know how you're going to do it without further Bible study on this, but per that Jer.31 Scripture you have to recognize that the seed of Israel is always going to be established before God, according to His promise to them. Now how do we reconcile that with Christ's Church? Simple. That IS Christ's Church, which is why Paul used the term "commonwealth of Israel" to Gentiles in Ephesians. God's Israel is Christ's Church, and includes the believing seed of the election according to grace, and all believing Gentiles graffed in with them. The worst confusion to have today is with thinking that the unbelieving Jews represent that Israel now; they do not, for the majority of them still reject Christ Jesus and are cut off. But when our Lord Jesus returns, that's going to change, which again, is what Paul was speaking about in Rom.11 concerning the rebellioius Jews he said God blinded so His Salvation could go to the Gentiles. The unbelieving Jews, though many of them have a literal heritage as old Israel, they are only potential members of God's Israel through Christ Jesus once their 'blindness' is removed when He returns.

Veteran,

Abraham was the Father of Jacob, do you consider Jacob a Jew? Of
course Abraham was called out from his father's house of Ur which is
still an ungodly nation(EGYPT) just as we are being called out of Egypt
from our fleshly father's house unto our spiritual Father's house. Jesus
not a Jew??, why he is the King of the Jews and they are his natural
brothers of the flesh that is, but not of their bloodline by the Spirit
unless of course they are in Christ.

The title of Jew originated from the sole tribe of Judah. However, to be a Jew at the time of Christ's first coming meant more than just being born of the tribe of Judah according to the flesh or living in the land. You did pay attention to our Lord and His Apostle's rebuke towards the Jew's religion and traditions of the scribes and Pharisees didn't you? How is it you do not already know this and claiming to be a Christian? Pontius Pilate was the originator of the title "King of The Jews", not Jesus and His Apostles, nor even the Jews themselves! The Jews asked Pilate to take that sign down off the cross, and make it say that Jesus only claimed... to be King of The Jews (

John 19:20-22
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, "Write not, 'The King of the Jews'; but that he said, 'I am King of the Jews.'"
22 Pilate answered, "What I have written I have written."
(KJV)

So you got Pilate there mocking the chief priests and leaders of the Jews by his putting that sign up, and even with the Roman soldiers dressing our Lord up in royal garb while mocking Him, a show put on by Pilate himself because he knew Jesus was innocent. Don't you realize what it would have meant if Jesus had truly been 'their' King, i.e., King of The Jews? Where would Christ's Church be if that were true? Our Lord Jesus had NOTHING to do with the Jew's religion, He mocked their traditions instead, why? Because by that time in history those Jews had setup a CORRUPT religious system above and beyond... the Old Covenant He gave them under Moses. If you're not really a believer on Christ's Jesus, then I could grasp how you would fail to understand that. Therefore, Christ never made that claim of being 'their' King, nor King of The Jews. Instead He is King over ALL Israel, over all nations, and over all the earth, and not just over believing Jews.

These below examples of that title was because of the popular beliefs of the day about Messiah, from their being taught by those chief priests and scribes. The Jews were looking for the coming of Messiah because of The Scriptures, not even the scribes nor Pharisees denied the Scripture fact that Messiah was to come. They denied that Jesus of Nazareth was Messiah, and looked for another. Other peoples also heard that prophecy based on what the Jew's understood then. That doesn't any more make our Lord Jesus King of The Jews than a man in the moon.

Matt 2:2-6

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the
people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among
the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall
rule my people Israel.

KJV[/quote]

Gen 17:19-21

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him,
and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve
princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

KJV

Acts 7:8

8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so
Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat
Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
KJV

See Abraham IS the father of many nations as we are seeing in Christ
Jesus, but the holy ones the 144,000 the 12 tribes will be of Jew and
Gentile natural mother's, yet one Father God as restored Israel. Flesh
and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. YOU MUST be born again!!

But have you not read the Genesis 48 prophecy to Ephraim and Manasseh? And about God's Birthright to Joseph's sons per 1 Chronicles 5?

Once again, only the three tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent the Jews per God's Word, also called the "house of Judah" in His Word. There were 10 OTHER tribes of Israel that never were Jews!

It's true that Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom. So is that all people are, nothing but flesh and blood? As a believer without flesh and blood, what part is the real 'you' that is saved by Christ at His coming? And does the 'real you' that is not flesh and blood ever change? Likewise it is with the seed of Israel in God's promises to them; they are still a chosen elect per His promise, even in the future "spiritual body" state. Need I remind you of Christ's future promise to His 12 Apostles ordained to sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom? Since His Apostles are already dead, their flesh and blood having gone back to the elements of the earth, then what part of them remains that will do that future reign? This is elementary Bible teaching here, not some difficult doctrine of men.

John 3:5-7

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

KJV

Rom 9:6-10

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these
are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are
counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

KJV

There's more to Paul's teaching of this matter than that, for he continues this subject into the Romans 11 chapter also. But we can see you don't care to address that, but continue repost the same Scripture pieces over and over again, as if citing it many times will make it easier for you to understand. You don't understand this matter, and it's easy to see why, you haven't continued in the rest... of God's Word about it, including Paul's coverage in Romans 11.

I have never heard the dry bones taught from anyone other than the
Spirit of God who has shown it to me. Show me the resurrection of them
in scripture please. There are two resurrections mentioned the First and
the Second is the only ones. Those who came out of their graves were
part of the First fruits but there are two more spoken of in Rev. So
please show in scripture were they come out.

Isaiah 25, which is in relation to 1 Cor.15 about the resurrection and timing of death being swallowed up in victory. Isaiah 25 is pointing that about all nations and peoples, not just Christ's Church. In 1 Cor.15 Paul goes one step farther on that, which aligns with what Christ revealed in Revelation concerning His elect Church that reigns with Him throughout the future Milennium.

In John 5:28-29 Christ describes TWO TYPES of resurrection happening at the same time of His coming at the shout of His voice.

All that of course is in conjunction with the day of His coming per the OT prophets, His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13, per Apostle Paul in 1 & 2 Thessalonians, and His Revelation through Apostle John. And then of course Zech.14 about the events of Christ's return and the nations still existing throughout His Millennium reign on earth.

I do want to
add that I love the Jewish people and never do I think that the church
replaced them, but I do know that it was the covenant that was replaced
and for their benefit. However if they do not receive Christ to enter
into the new covenant for forgiveness of sins and are judged under the
Old covenant that no man can keep, THEN they will be destroyed.

Christ Jesus established His Church first through believing Israelites of the seed. Some of those were Jews, and others were of the ten tribes. The fact that The Gospel first had to be preached at Jerusalem to the seed of Israel further reveals God keeping His promise He specifically made to them. And then The Gospel being accepted by the ten tribes in the west to establish the western Christians, with kings upon thrones, further cements the fact of His promises to the 'seed'. But of course, you probably will keep going around that Biblical fact about the western Christian nations and the involvment of the seed of the ten tribes with that. When our Lord Jesus returns, then you will 'know' that, unless you ask Him to show you and you dump the Jew's false traditions about it.

That is why it is so important for us to bring the gospel to them to
cast them out of the old into their new to save them. If they did not
need to receive Jesus then Jesus would not have said YOU Must be born
again to be saved. He would not have come to them first and there would
be no Jews in the body of Christ. And if they were seperate from the
body of Christ, then God would not have said He spared 7,000 OT saints
for Himself.

That's what I'm actually doing, trying to wake them up, that is, those which God allows, for only He can make a seed grow and take root. All we can do is plant the seed, and that's what I've been doing with this, for those who care to go into The Scriptures about it for theirselves, and then take an honest look at the fulfillment histories.

afaithfulone4u · Mar 19, 2013

Veteran,
That is absurd to say that Jesus is not of Jewish decent God would not have another nation rule His chosen people. Of course the 12 original apostles will rule over Israel for Jesus came to "his own" first but you will notice there is 24 elders in heaven around the throne 12 are the 12 patriarchs and 12 are the apostles in which Jew and Gentile are brought together in unity in Christ. If they were not all one then there would not be natural believing Jews in the body of Christ. God would have kept them separated from the Gentiles. Not all Israel shall inherit heavenly Jerusalem. Paul said he was sorrowful for his brother's in the flesh and wanted to save them.... So this shows that just because you are a Jew does not mean you will be saved. Why? Because if they do not receive Christ, they will be judged under the law which no man can keep perfectly to live. So all must be born again. The only acception is if they make it through the GT, Repent and receive Christ before they pass, or a one of the 7,000 OT saints which are reserved by God to be saved by His grace which are devout Jews and will not be of the body of Christ, they are the remnant out of all those who died before Jesus' ministry. All unbelieving Jews are still held bondage under the old covenant of the 613 laws... but will not make it because they will be judged under it. We must bring them into the new covenant so that they can make it. Paul also said all Israel shall be saved... saved and inherit the kingdom of God are two different things. If they were not then why did Jesus come to them first? Why are the apostles Jews? Why did Paul mourn for his lost brothers if he meant they would be saved without Christ?
God is God over all the earth but His chosen who so ever they are know Him as the Lord of their life and always has a special people for Himself. Not a people chosen for how wonderful or smart they are or special in some way... .But chosen and special because they have a heart for God and love His Word.
As for you saying that Jesus is not a Jew the Bible says he was and I found this little site with the following:

Jesus was Born a Jew

Jesus is a real, historical person, born in the Land of Israel, during the
Roman occupation, in approximately the year 3 BCE. However, at the time His name
was actually pronounced, "Yeshua,"
and that is the name used in this article.

That Yeshua was born Jewish is one of the least contested
truths of the Bible. The very first verse of the New Covenant reads: The
book of the genealogy of Messiah Yeshua ("Jesus Christ"), the son of
David, the son of Abraham (Matt. 1:1). Who were Abraham and
David?

Abraham was the first Hebrew. God changed his name from Abram
(Gen. 17:5). In Gen. 14:13 he is called Abram
the Hebrew. So we can see that Yeshua (Jesus) is descended from "Abram the
Hebrew." Even to this day, Jews are also called "Hebrews", and the language of
the Jews is "Hebrew."

Abraham and his descendants were given the unconditional
covenant of the Promised Land (Gen. 17:8) and the covenant of circumcision (Gen. 17:10). Abraham is the father
of the Jews (Acts 3:12-25).
Isaac was his son and Jacob was his grandson (Matt. 1:2). Thus, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are known as the
Patriarchs, the fathers of the Jews.

Jacob's name was changed by God to "Israel" (Gen. 35:10-12) and he had twelve
sons (Gen. 35:23-26) from whom
come the Twelve Tribes of Israel. All of their descendants are known
collectively throughout the Bible as the Children of Israel (Ex. 1:6-7).

One of those twelve sons was Judah (Gen. 35:23, Matt. 1:2) and
it is from his name that we get the word 'Jew'. Although Yehudah
(Judah) was only one of the twelve, by 700 BCE, because of the course of
Israel's history, the word Yehudee (Jew) came to mean any person
descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Jer. 34:9). So, for instance, Saul haShaliach (the Apostle Paul)
was of the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1) yet he self-identified as a Jew (Acts 22:3).

Nevertheless, according to the Bible, the Messiah must be
descended from the tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10) as King David was (1Sam. 17:12, 1Ch. 28:4) and descended from King David
himself (2Sam. 7:12-13, Isa. 9:6-7, Jer. 23:5-6). That is
why the Messiah is called Son of David (Matt. 21:9).

Yeshua (Jesus) is from the Tribe of Judah (Heb. 7:14). His earthly father was
descended from David (Matt. 1:6-16) and His mother was as well (Luke
1:27, 32-34, 3:23-31).

In addition, Yeshua was born King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2). The King of the Jews
must Himself be Jewish (Deut. 17:15). His aunt Elizabeth was Jewish (a descendant of
Aaron, Moses' brother) and His uncle Zacharia was a Jewish priest (Luke 1:5, 36). Yeshua was
circumcised according to Jewish law (Luke 2:21, Lev. 12:2-3), and redeemed according to Jewish
law (Luke 2:22-23, Num. 18:15). His mother atoned according to
Jewish law (Luke 2:24, Lev. 12:6-8). He is called The Consolation
of Israel (Luke 2:25) and
The Glory of Thy People Israel (Luke 2:32). Jesus was born a Jew.

Jesus lived as a Jew

Although He was born in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1, Micah 5:2), Yeshua was raised in Nazareth (Luke 2:39-40). Both were Jewish
towns at the time, according to archeologists and historians. Bethlehem is just
south of Jerusalem while Nazareth is north, in the Galilee section. Both of
Yeshua's parents were from Nazareth (Luke 1:26-27, 2:4, 39) and they returned there
with the Child when they had done everything according to the Law of the
Lord that His birth required (Luke 2:39). His aunt and uncle were also Torah observant Jews
(Luke 1:6) so we can see that
probably the whole family took their faith very seriously.

Yeshua's parents made the 140 mile (225 m.) round
trip to Jerusalem every Passover (Luke 2:41) in observance of Deut. 16:16. It was at the age of twelve that Yeshua stayed
behind an extra three days to learn from the Temple teachers (Luke 2:46). Although He already
understood the Torah well (Luke 2:47), His attitude of listening and questioning indicates
love of the Hebrew scripture and respect for the teachers. He also respected the
Temple itself, calling it His Father's (Luke 2:49). Near the end of His life, He praised a widow for
giving all she had to the Temple (Luke 21:1-4).

In adult life, His disciples were Jews (John 1:47, Matt. 20:25-26)
and they called Him 'Rabbi' (John 4:31). Mary called Him 'Rabboni' (John 20:16). They sought Him
because they believed the Torah and the Prophets (John 1:45).

A Pharisee who had not yet come to faith in Him also addressed
Yeshua as 'Rabbi' (John 3:2), as
did a crowd of people (John 6:25). A Samaritan woman easily recognized He was a Jew (John 4:9).

Yeshua's disciples spoke Hebrew (John 1:38, 41) and so did
He, as well as Chaldean, a closely-related language brought back by the Jews
from their captivity in Babylon (Matt. 27:46). In the sermon on the mount He affirmed the
authority of the Torah and the Prophets (Matt. 5:17) even in the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 5:19-20). He regularly
attended synagogue (Luke 4:16) and His teaching was respected by the other
congregants (Luke 4:15). He
taught in the Jewish Temple (Luke 21:37) and if He were not a Jew, His going into that part
of the Temple would not have been allowed (Acts 21:28-30).

Although He differed with some of His contemporaries on
how to keep the commandments (Matt. 12:12), He did not disagree on whether to keep
them, saying such things as,"if you wish to enter into life, keep the
commandments," (Matt. 19:17). When He healed someone of
leprosy, he instructed him to,"show yourself to the priest and present the
offering that Moses commanded..."
(Matt. 8:4, Lev. 14).

Yeshua not only taught others how to live a Jewish life, He
lived it Himself. The outward signs of this were such things as wearing tzitzit
(tassles) on His clothing (Luke 8:43, Matt. 14:36, Strong's # 2899) to serve as a
reminder of the commandments (Num. 15:37-39). He observed Passover (John 2:13) and went up to Jerusalem
(Deut. 16:16). He observed
Succot (John 7:2, 10) and
went up to Jerusalem (John 7:14). He also observed Hanukah (John 10:22) and probably Rosh
haShanah (John 5:1), going up to
Jerusalem on both those occasions as well, even though it isn't commanded in the
Torah.

The inward sign of His Judaism was a circumcised heart
(Deut. 10:16, 30:6).

When faced with temptation, Yeshua answered from the Hebrew
Scripture (Matt. 4:2-10, Deut. 8:3, 6:16, 6:13). When
teaching, He taught from the Hebrew Scripture (Matt. 22:42-45). When admonishing, He quoted from the Hebrew
Scripture (Mk. 7:6-13).

Yeshua self-identified as a Jew (John 4:22) and as King of the Jews
(Mk. 15:2). From His birth to
His last Passover seder (Luke 22:14-15), Jesus lived as a Jew.

Jesus died a Jew

When Yeshua was taken prisoner by a Roman captain, his cohort, and some
Jewish officials (John 18:12),
He was delivered into the custody of the Jewish priests, elders, and scribes (Mk. 14:53). The Roman soldiers
would not have placed Him under Jewish jurisdiction if He were not Jewish.

Later, Yeshua was brought before the Sanhedrin,
the Jewish council (Luke 22:66).
He was charged with an offense against Jewish Law (Matt. 26:65-66, Lev. 24:13-14, John 19:7). Pilate,
head of the Roman occupation, also recognized Jewish jurisdiction over Yeshua
(John 18:31). This was because
Yeshua was a Jew (John 18:35).

He unequivocally identified Himself as the Messiah (Mk. 14:61-62) and as we have seen
above, the Messiah must be Jewish. He said He is the King of the Jews (Matt. 27:11) and, as we have also
seen above, the King of the Jews must Himself be Jewish. The Jewish crowd also
called Him 'King of the Jews' (Mk. 15:12). He was mocked, spat on and beaten by the Roman
soldiers as 'King of the Jews' (Mk. 15:16-20) and when they crucified Him, their charge was
'King of the Jews' (Matt. 27:37).

The place of judgment had a Hebrew place-name (John 19:13) and the place of
crucifixion had a Hebrew place-name (Mk. 15:22).

Joseph of Arimethea, who took custody of Yeshua's body, was
Jewish (Luke 23:50-52) and he
laid the body in his own new tomb (Matt. 27:59-60). Therefore, Yeshua was buried in a Jewish
cemetery. He was also buried according to Jewish custom of the time (John 19:40). Without doubt, Jesus
died a Jew.

Jesus was resurrected a Jew

Yeshua the risen Jew told his Jewish disciples to go out and
teach all the Gentiles (Matt. 28:19, Strong's # 1484).

Then, after eating, talking and walking with His
disciples, Yeshua, "lifted up His hands and blessed them" (Luke 24:50). What blessing is
spoken with lifted hands? The Aaronic Benediction
(Num. 6:24-26) is given in Synagogues and in Churches even to
our day, and in the Synagogues it is still given as it was more than a thousand
years before the resurrected Jew Jesus gave it: with lifted
hands. In fact, another name for the Aaronic Benediction is "The Lifting up of
Hands." (see Sketches of Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ.
Ch.XVII. A. Edersheim. Eerdmans pub.)

Rav Sha'ul (the apostle Paul) tells us that while he was
on the road to Damascus Yeshua spoke to him from heaven in Hebrew (Acts 26:14). Sha'ul, a Jew who was
born a Roman citizen (Acts 22:27-28), was fluent in Greek (Acts 21:37) and possibly many other
languages, but Yeshua spoke to him in Hebrew, the language of the Jews.

Sha'ul did not become a believer until well after Yeshua's
death and resurrection, yet an important part of his message is that Yeshua is a
descendant of the Jewish king David (2Tim. 2:8).

Many years after His resurrection, Yeshua testified that He is
the root and offspring of king David (Rev. 22:16), and in a time yet future, two of His titles will be
Lion of the tribe of Judah, and Root of David (Rev. 5:5).

In Matt. 24:20
He told us to pray concerning the coming tribulation, that we would not have to
flee on the Sabbath. And in Matt. 26:27-29 Yeshua told the disciples that He will celebrate
the Passover seder anew with us in His Father's kingdom.

The standard He will use at the judgement is the Law God gave
the Jews. To those who do not do the will of God, He will say, "Depart from Me,
you who practice lawlessness" (Matt. 7:22-23, Strong's # 458, 459).

In (Heb. 13:8)
we are told Yeshua the Messiah is the same yesterday, today and forever. So, if
He ever was a Jew He was resurrected a Jew, and He is one to this day.

He was born a Jew, He lived a Jew, He died a Jew, and He was
resurrected a Jew. He is alive and Jewish now, and forevermore the
same.

veteran · Mar 20, 2013

So now our Lord Jesus Christ was a Pharisee Jew?

Ain't that just like the blind Pharisees and their false religionists to think things like that!

Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah though. But He certainly was no Pharisee Jew, nor did He adhere to the tenets of Judaism and the false corrupt Babylon Talmudic teachings of the Jews. Instead He rebuked that and them! That's why they murdered Him, because they saw their pseudo-kingdom they had established for themselves being destroyed by Christ!

And so it is today also, these same false ones, "without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots", have tried to destroy Christianity by attempted corruption with their false un-Biblical doctrines.

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I love all who love God's Word but who was Jesus speaking to here?

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