Shalom, Rocky Wiley.
Rocky Wiley said:
Hi Dragonfly,
You say: "I have been mystified by the acceptance by 'Christian believers' of preterism, despite its obvious errors when compared with scripture";
Not speaking for Preterism but for the truth of God's Word. God can not lie!
What is mystifying about this scripture where Jesus is speaking to his disciples about his return in his kingdom?
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
The key word above is that 'some' of the disciples, shall not taste death, that means that most, but not all, would die before he returned.
Is it clear that Jesus is speaking about judgement coming upon the people that he spoke to here?:
Luk 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Luk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luk 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
One should not stand on the word of man, stand on the Word of God!
If I may, stand on the Word of God. That's a good stand, and I won't fault it; however, do stand on the Word of God IN CONTEXT.
Yeshua` was talking about the Mount of Transfiguration that was immediately to come! The reason why it was "some" was because not everyone went with Him into the Mount:
Matthew 16:28-17:13
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
KJV
Mark 9:1-13
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
KJV
Luke 9:27-36
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
KJV
So, in all three of the synoptic Gospels, the order is the same. Yeshua' makes the statement and then after six days had passed, He climbs a very high mountain with the three disciples, and later on the eighth day, the statement is fulfilled when He was transfigured. The vision that they saw was of Him coming in His Kingdom the way that He would appear IN His Kingdom! It's not that He already came in His Kingdom, but that they SAW THE VISION of how He would come! And, they saw it IN ADVANCE as prophets usually were shown the future!
He did not return in the first century and has YET to return, for He must return PHYSICALLY and BODILY, just as they saw Him go into the sky PHYSICALLY and BODILY! It doesn't matter what Christians do for the Messiah to return. Yeshua` said to the JEWS in JERUSALEM, "You shall not see me from now on until you can say, '
Baruwkh haba' b'shem YHWH' (which means 'Welcome, Comer in the authority of YaHuWH')." He won't return until the Jews of Jerusalem can welcome Him, Yeshua` or Jesus, back at YAH'S Representative, YAH'S Anointed, YAH'S Messiah, or YAH'S Christ! So far, this they are unwilling to do ... YET!
Seven hundred years before His timely birth,
A prophet of great boldness came to tell the men of earth
That there would come a powerful man anointed to be King;
Of His surprising miracles the populace would sing:
Of healing pow’r to make blind see and deaf to hear His voice,
Of pow’r to even raise the dead and cause men to rejoice!
Of all these things and so much more the children would sing songs,
But … only children welcomed Him to remedy their wrongs.
A song was written years before Isaiah was a child,
Predicting that Christ won’t fit into systems then gone wild:
“The builders of the pyr’mid said, ‘The stone does not fit in!’
When they were done, it capped the work and much to their chagrin!”
The Messiah was rejected, ridiculed, and slain …;
But to the shock of all involved, He came to life again!
But, He did not then cap the work of which the song declared.
Instead, He left the earth until He hears the message dared:
“We care not whether you were He of whom the Christians claim;
We only know we need you now, or we will die in shame!
We’ve heard of you, Messiah fair, and of your pow’r we read;
Please come and rescue us, dear Sire, in this our time of need!
“If you won’t save us now, there will be no one left to save.
The nation Isra’el is doomed, and we can see our grave.”
And in the nation Isra’el’s gloomiest, darkest hour,
Will come the Prince (not yet the King) in majesty and pow’r!
And when they see Messiah diving down with kingly steed,
And all the thousands following to aid the ones in need,
Then shouts of victory will echo all across the land
With sighs of relief and gasps of awe as He saves with mighty hand!
And then will He be made a King, accepted now at last!
And then a King o’er many kings as one by one they ask!
Ah, but for now He is the Christ——anointed to be King,
And although He is not King now, he will be in the “Spring ….”
For now, the “Winter” slowly drags with vernal guarantees,
And time goes on at God’s own pace with thoughtfulness and ease.
He fills each age with purpose and a reason for each pause:
To get the most from every age and weed out all the flaws.
So boast not, Christian Gentile, for you are grafted in
To share Messiah’s bounty prematurely! Do not sin!
If God spared not the people whom He worked with many years,
What will He do if you should speak against them without tears?
The Scriptures say so little ’bout this time in which we live,
Could it be that we’ve read into it much more than He did give?
Why must we feel that we’re the ones for whom the sun must shine?
Why do we think we’re all who’ll be at the marriage feast to dine?
Get rid of that old foolish pride! We’re grafted in, I say!
This high-and-mighty attitude will come to humbler day!
It should be crushing blow to think that Christ’s return will be
When ISRA'EL cries, “If you will come, we’ll surely kneel to Thee.”
The judgment of which you speak DID happen in the first century A.D.; however, Yeshua` AT THIS TIME in His "ministry" was talking to the Pharisees and the Sadducees in the PRESENCE of all the people that came, so many that they were stepping on one another! Again, if you would take the time to check the context, you will find that Luke 11 matches up with Matthew 16 and Mark 8.
Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV
Mark 8:11-13
11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.
12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
13 And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side.
KJV
Yeshua` had just finished feeding the 4000 with 7 loaves and a few small fish. Then, in the presence of all these people, these birds came to Him DEMANDING a sign from "heaven!" He gave them A sign from the "sky": "Red sky at night is a sailor's delight; red sky at morning, sailors take warning!" However, He told them that no further sign would be given to that generation (except for the sign of the prophet Yonah). He wasn't warning EVERYBODY; He was warning the Pharisees and the Sadducees in the PRESENCE of everybody!