Is it biblical for Jesus' followers to approve of the military practice?

meshak · Mar 25, 2013

I say no because here is what the Bible says:

Here is what Jesus has to say:Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which
hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that
curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that
smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy
cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of
thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye
would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye
love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that
love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye?
for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to
receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as
much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for
nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the
Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye
therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

and some more:

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him,
“for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

And His faithful disciple harmonize with
Jesus' word:

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war
as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.
On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish
arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God,
and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian
10:4-5)

Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard
for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends
on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but
rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will
repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is
thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his
head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

II
Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according
to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God
for pulling down strongholds."

Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle
against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the
rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
heavenly places."

Groundzero · Mar 26, 2013

What type of military practice? That's the real question. Military is part of life. Even God's chosen people, the Israelites were forced to have an army for protection.

meshak · Mar 26, 2013

ZebraHug said:
What type of military practice? That's the real question. Military is part of life.

Click to expand...

It is for this world, not for Jesus' followers.

Even God's chosen people, the Israelites were forced to have an army for protection.

It was in the OT times. We have new covenant with Jesus.

Jesus is the Lord of His followers. that's why I have this thread. His followers should not misrepresent Jesus with hostile and violent witnessing like the rest of the world. His followers are representative of Jesus.

I am sorry, I am having trouble copying and pasting. It seems that this site have different style of coping and pasting.

Is there any easier way?

thanks.

biggandyy · Mar 26, 2013

Simply link to the story rather than cutting and pasting. Remeber, just say NO to being a scripture monkey.

meshak · Mar 26, 2013

BiggAndyy said:
Simply link to the story rather than cutting and pasting. Remeber, just say NO to being a scripture monkey.

I am talking about replying to the posters.

blessings.

biggandyy · Mar 26, 2013

If you mean quoting there is a quote button beneath each reply that will quote the post you want to reference, such as you did above.

afaithfulone4u · Mar 26, 2013

If you consider yourself to be IN CHRIST who is not only the temple but builders of the temple as we help financially to get the Word out and also building up others and bringing other's into the body of Christ to be saved then you can not be in the military and be of Christ who's body(members) are the temple.

WHY?

Because David was not even allowed to partake of the building of the temple built with man's hands because he was a man of war and had shed much blood. God's house is a house of Peace built by His own Hand in unity resting in the Word for all provisions, not of one forcibly made by blood, sweat and tears as carnal man builds.
1 Chron 28:2-3
2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.
KJV

This is why I tell you, that saved to live again and chosen to enter into God's Rest as son's are two different things. Kings and priests do not dirty their hands in the dust of the earth fighting flesh and blood men... God gives them spiritual authority to rule over those who can not overcome their flesh of dog eat dog nature.
If you do as they do, you are the same as they are. You can not say that you kill for good reason such as your country, because there is no Good reason and who is to say that your good reason is reason enough? Christ is our measure and He physically killed no one and stopped Paul as well, however he did cast out demons in those who are in God's man persuading them to do such things!
Yes! God is a man of war for He told us that to eat of the tree of knowledge to know good & EVIL made us like Him because the day we eat of it we die in one way or the other by the hands of our own brothers.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV
But He wants His people to live in peace and safety allowing Him to protect them, your work is to stand in faith on His Word by confession and He carries it out. For we do not fight carnal man that has learned to kill one another, we fight the wicked spiritual world that enters their beings to have a body to carry out their deeds and to teach them to kill in the first place.

Ex 14:14
14 The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
KJV
Deut 3:22
22 Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.
KJV
Deut 20:3-4
3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;
4 For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.
KJV

meshak · Mar 26, 2013

BiggAndyy said:
If you mean quoting there is a quote button beneath each reply that will quote the post you want to reference, such as you did above.

I have to copy the whole quote and cannot partially address the issue.

afaithfulone4u said:
If you consider yourself to be IN CHRIST who is not only the temple but builders of the temple as we help financially to get the Word out and also building up others and bringing other's into the body of Christ to be saved then you can not be in the military and be of Christ who's body(members) are the temple.

WHY?

Because David was not even allowed to partake of the building of the temple built with man's hands because he was a man of war and had shed much blood. God's house is a house of Peace built by His own Hand in unity resting in the Word for all provisions, not of one forcibly made by blood, sweat and tears as carnal man builds.
1 Chron 28:2-3
2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.
KJV

This is why I tell you, that saved to live again and chosen to enter into God's Rest as son's are two different things. Kings and priests do not dirty their hands in the dust of the earth fighting flesh and blood men... God gives them spiritual authority to rule over those who can not overcome their flesh of dog eat dog nature.
If you do as they do, you are the same as they are. You can not say that you kill for good reason such as your country, because there is no Good reason and who is to say that your good reason is reason enough? Christ is our measure and He physically killed no one and stopped Paul as well, however he did cast out demons in those who are in God's man persuading them to do such things!
Yes! God is a man of war for He told us that to eat of the tree of knowledge to know good & EVIL made us like Him because the day we eat of it we die in one way or the other by the hands of our own brothers.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV
But He wants His people to live in peace and safety allowing Him to protect them, your work is to stand in faith on His Word by confession and He carries it out. For we do not fight carnal man that has learned to kill one another, we fight the wicked spiritual world that enters their beings to have a body to carry out their deeds and to teach them to kill in the first place.

Ex 14:14
14 The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
KJV
Deut 3:22
22 Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.
KJV
Deut 20:3-4
3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;
4 For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.
KJV

If you want to live in peace, you should not engage in wars like the rest of the world. Jesus' followers are not of this world. You should come out of the world to be faithful to Jesus.

You seem to be ignoring too many of Jesus' word.

OT is Judaism. Jesus' followers are with Christ with new covenant.

veteran · Mar 26, 2013

No, there is nowhere written in New Testament Scripture that condemns the use of a military defense.

The subject of turning the other cheek is TOO OFTEN taken out of its context which our Lord Jesus gave it. We know this because of the Luke 22 Scripture where Jesus COMMANDS His disciples that have extra belongings to go sell them and BUY A SWORD. We also know this because Peter continued to carry his sword, and there were two disciples among those of Luke 22 that held up two swords, and Christ Jesus said that was enough.

So putting ALL the relevant Scriptures together in understanding is pointing to this: we each have the God-given right to defend ourselves, our home, and our property. The U.S. Constitutional founders also well understood this too, which is why they put the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed clause in the 2nd Ammendment, and clauses that establish national defense.

The turn the other cheek idea is not about situations where someone is coming upon you to try and kill you or your family or steal your property. It's about someone slapping your cheek because of preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Is there ANYONE here that is confused about the difference between a military invasion or attempt to murder vs. being slapped on the cheek???

If you preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ and someone slaps you on the cheek for doing so, offer them your other cheek also. That is what our Lord Jesus is showing us with that. It is NOT A COMMAND TO DISREGARD SELF DEFENSE against a killer/thief or a military invasion. Do we still love an enemy that might slap us on the cheek for preaching The Gospel? Yes. Do we still love people who violently rage against us? Yes, even try to help them if we can, but not to the point of allowing them to murder or steal.

My Christian brethren need to realize that one of the long-range strategies devised in 1958 by world Communism was to push ideas of disarmament and pacifism in the western Churches. That strategy was also revealed by the ex-KGB colonel Golitsyn who defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's (see New Lies For Old). So it should be no surprise that they have taken our Lord's words about turning the cheek and loving your enemies out of our Lord's context per New Testament Scripture as a whole, also because they truly HATE when someone brings up the Luke 22 Scripture of Christ's command to go buy a sword...

Luke 22:35-36
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."
36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
(KJV)

For those who do not realize why He commanded us (yes, us Christians) to arm ourselves, go look at the history of Hitler's Germany, Joseph Stalin's Soviet Russia, what Communism did to the Cambodian people after the Vietnam conflict, and Vietnamese Communists after the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, even within some Churches today that shooters came into the Church to shoot it up. Christ's enemies know they cannot truly get total power over the people unless they first disarm them. And that's what these kind of turn the other cheek ploys are mostly about today.

meshak · Mar 26, 2013

veteran said:
No, there is nowhere written in New Testament Scripture that condemns the use of a military defense.

The subject of turning the other cheek is TOO OFTEN taken out of its context which our Lord Jesus gave it. We know this because of the Luke 22 Scripture where Jesus COMMANDS His disciples that have extra belongings to go sell them and BUY A SWORD. We also know this because Peter continued to carry his sword, and there were two disciples among those of Luke 22 that held up two swords, and Christ Jesus said that was enough.

So putting ALL the relevant Scriptures together in understanding is pointing to this: we each have the God-given right to defend ourselves, our home, and our property. The U.S. Constitutional founders also well understood this too, which is why they put the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed clause in the 2nd Ammendment, and clauses that establish national defense.

The turn the other cheek idea is not about situations where someone is coming upon you to try and kill you or your family or steal your property. It's about someone slapping your cheek because of preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Is there ANYONE here that is confused about the difference between a military invasion or attempt to murder vs. being slapped on the cheek???

If you preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ and someone slaps you on the cheek for doing so, offer them your other cheek also. That is what our Lord Jesus is showing us with that. It is NOT A COMMAND TO DISREGARD SELF DEFENSE against a killer/thief or a military invasion. Do we still love an enemy that might slap us on the cheek for preaching The Gospel? Yes. Do we still love people who violently rage against us? Yes, even try to help them if we can, but not to the point of allowing them to murder or steal.

My Christian brethren need to realize that one of the long-range strategies devised in 1958 by world Communism was to push ideas of disarmament and pacifism in the western Churches. That strategy was also revealed by the ex-KGB colonel Golitsyn who defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's (see New Lies For Old). So it should be no surprise that they have taken our Lord's words about turning the cheek and loving your enemies out of our Lord's context per New Testament Scripture as a whole, also because they truly HATE when someone brings up the Luke 22 Scripture of Christ's command to go buy a sword...

Luke 22:35-36
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."
36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
(KJV)

For those who do not realize why He commanded us (yes, us Christians) to arm ourselves, go look at the history of Hitler's Germany, Joseph Stalin's Soviet Russia, what Communism did to the Cambodian people after the Vietnam conflict, and Vietnamese Communists after the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam, even within some Churches today that shooters came into the Church to shoot it up. Christ's enemies know they cannot truly get total power over the people unless they first disarm them. And that's what these kind of turn the other cheek ploys are mostly about today.

Please read the OP.

There is no place for violence for Jesus' followers.

Jesus' followers are not of this world. You should come out of the world to be faithful to Jesus.

You seem to be ignoring too many of Jesus' word.

blessings.

gregg · Mar 26, 2013

to kill for a good reason would be like stealing to give to the poor, we have a commandment to love one another.what ifs are fleshly fears.keep his love and he will keep us

Selene · Mar 26, 2013

According to the New Testament:

1 Peter 2:13-14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

It was God who instituted these governments to do His will so that criminals would be punished. It is the government who established law enforcement. When an enemy invades a country, the government has ever right to use military force to punish the enemy. It is the government who established a military.

meshak · Mar 26, 2013

sogj said:
to kill for a good reason would be like stealing to give to the poor, we have a commandment to love one another.what ifs are fleshly fears.keep his love and he will keep us

Jesus' followers just dont love their loves one or their friends. Jesus commands us to love your enemy too.

There is no place for violence for Jesus' followers.

Jesus' followers are not of this world. You should come out of the world to be faithful to Jesus.

blessings.

Click to expand...

Selene said:
According to the New Testament:

1 Peter 2:13-14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

So it was ok for German Christian to kill Jews because their Hitler, government says so? I dont think so. but I know German Christians did though.

Click to expand...

KCKID · Mar 26, 2013

Selene said:
According to the New Testament:

1 Peter 2:13-14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

It was God who instituted these governments to do His will so that criminals would be punished. It is the government who established law enforcement. When an enemy invades a country, the government has ever right to use military force to punish the enemy. It is the government who established a military.

Then the United States has a lot to answer for, does it not? Or, is the U.S. allowed to invade countries and kill thousands of its inhabitants simply because it can?

veteran · Mar 27, 2013

meshak said:
Please read the OP.

There is no place for violence for Jesus' followers.

Jesus' followers are not of this world. You should come out of the world to be faithful to Jesus.

You seem to be ignoring too many of Jesus' word.

blessings.

You're brainwashed.

Read Luke 22:35-36 again, Christ Jesus speaking that.

meshak said:
to kill for a good reason would be like stealing to give to the poor, we have a commandment to love one another.what ifs are fleshly fears.keep his love and he will keep us

Jesus' followers just dont love their loves one or their friends. Jesus commands us to love your enemy too.

There is no place for violence for Jesus' followers.

Jesus' followers are not of this world. You should come out of the world to be faithful to Jesus.

blessings.

Click to expand...

Selene said:
According to the New Testament:

1 Peter 2:13-14 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

So it was ok for German Christian to kill Jews because their Hitler, government says so? I dont think so. but I know German Christians did though.

Click to expand...

No it was NOT OK for German Christians to kill Jews under Hitler. Nor was it OK for Lennin, Stalin, Pol-Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, nor king George, nor any tyrant to do such. But that's exactly... what happens when the people refuse to arm themselves againt tyrants!

KCKID said:
Then the United States has a lot to answer for, does it not? Or, is the U.S. allowed to invade countries and kill thousands of its inhabitants simply because it can?

Other countries have a whole lot MORE to answer for involving that matter. Imperial Japan wised up, and with the help of the U.S. they are very prosperous. Most of the German people wised up, and with the help of the U.S. became prosperous. South Korea made a stand, the U.S. helped them, and now they've become very prosperous. Are you getting the pattern, or still brainwashed? The Iraqi people have the same opportunity for prosperity, if the majority of the people would only wake up and put away the radicals among them.

meshak · Mar 27, 2013

KCKID said:
Then the United States has a lot to answer for, does it not?

I dont know how God judge the world, but I know what Jesus is and what He commands. Jesus does not condone His followers to engage in any killings, He says to love your enemy. You dont love anyone if you love them.

Or, is the U.S. allowed to invade countries and kill thousands of its inhabitants simply because it can

The military is of this world. I am sure they will survive without any Jesus' followers help. Jesus says His followers are not of this world.?

Pro-military Christians are ignoring many of Jesus' word or teachings.

No it was NOT OK for German Christians to kill Jews under Hitler. Nor was it OK for Lennin, Stalin, Pol-Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, nor king George, nor any tyrant to do such. But that's exactly... what happens when the people refuse to arm themselves againt tyrants!

Why not? According to your interpretation they should because their government is telling them to kill their enemy. They are just obeying Government. There are Christians all over the world, even in your enemy's countries. You seem to ignore that conveniently.

It is fact that many German Christians were in Hitler's military. I know Christians dont want to talk about it.

sdcougar · Mar 27, 2013

To clear up some common confusion on Scripture

Two Swords
(timely as it pertains to Holy Week) http://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/two-swords-enough/

Romans '13'
http://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/romans-13-in-context/

A resource blog on this topic
http://christianpacifismblog.wordpress.com/

Selene · Mar 27, 2013

KCKID said:
Then the United States has a lot to answer for, does it not? Or, is the U.S. allowed to invade countries and kill thousands of its inhabitants simply because it can?

I said that God instituted the government. The government is supposed to follow God's will, but we know they don't always do that because the government is run by people who don't always follow God's will. Makes sense?? According to the Bible, the government is supposed to punish criminals and even those who invade their country (which in this case would be self-defense). Governments can also help other countries, and that is within God's will.

KCKID · Mar 27, 2013

Selene said:
I said that God instituted the government. The government is supposed to follow God's will, but we know they don't always do that because the government is run by people who don't always follow God's will. Makes sense?? According to the Bible, the government is supposed to punish criminals and even those who invade their country (which in this case would be self-defense). Governments can also help other countries, and that is within God's will.

So, who was following God's will with regard to the invasion by the U.S. on Afghanistan and Iraq ...the U.S.?

meshak · Mar 27, 2013

KCKID said:
So, who was following God's will with regard to the invasion by the U.S. on Afghanistan and Iraq ...the U.S.?

The war or invasion of this world because it is political. This thread is about Christians in the military.

Let God judge about this world. Jesus says let the dead bury their own dead. To Jesus, this world is dead.

Is it biblical for Jesus' followers to approve of the military practice?

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