The proper and harmonious interpretation of Romans 11:25 [split from another topic]

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Rex

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I have no idea what Romans 11:25 has to do with a temple but in the mean time here is something to think about
Some People can take one verse and re-translate the entire new testament and prophesy as well

The proper and harmonious interpretation of Romans 11:25


Romans 11: 20 says "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:" Who are they? Paul says in verse 14, "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them whih are my flesh, and might save some of them."

Most of the Jews of Paul's time rejected Christ and they were broken off. Now Paul says in Romans 11: 25-26 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

Who is "Israel" in verse 26?

Dispensationalists say in the Bible Israel must always be physical Israel, not some spiritual construct. Therefore by dispensationalist definition, Israel in verse 26 must be physical Israel and therefore Paul is predicting that at some time all physical Israel will be saved.

This interpretation contradicts Paul's statement in verse 20 that the Jews were broken off because of unbelief.

If all Israel is to be saved, then Israel here refers to Israel as being all of God's people who are saved, no matter what their race, Jew or Gentile. This interpretation is consistent with what Paul says in
Romans 2: 28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

And this interpretation of Romans 11: 25-26 fits what Paul says in Galatians 3: 28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Paul is pointing out that after physical Israel was reborn, or the small remnant of physical Israel who were more faithful were translated into Christians as spiritual Israel race no longer matters in the eyes of God. And remember what Paul also says in Galatians 4: 22-26, "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other
by a freewoman.

23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Not only was race as a measure of acceptance by God done away with at the Cross, but the Cross opened up Christians to receive the Holy Spirit and operate in the Spirit. Operating in the Spirit, Christians are not in bondage to the old law of Mount Sinai. Christians are in Jerusalem which is free, not literal physical Jerusalem


Now you have two choices you can choose to believe the harmonious interpretation of Romans 11:25

Or you can take your black sharpie and start censoring the verses,
Romans 2:28-29
Gal 3:28
Gal 4:22-26
You don't need them any longer
And a list of others I will prove including the OT


If you have not removed your head from your @$$ yet

Please take your black sharpie and remove Romans 9:6-9
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor
because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On
the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be
reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”


Remove Matthew 3:9
and Luke 3:8 also

As to Abraham's promise
In Gen 12:3 remove all the families of the earth shall be blessed
Gen 18:18 do the same and in Gen 22:18 and as well in Gen 26:4

Why!! because you believe the promise to be for the Jews or Israel alone so scratch out the reference to the families and the nations of the world. God only loves the Jews LOL.
 

Angelina

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Romans 11 has nothing to do with the Temple Rex...I'm just musing in relation to the O/P :huh: ...so just take a deep breath and calm yourself. No one is attacking you. I have an opinion and just in case you haven't realized this yet...this is a discussion forum.

Thanks
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Save your breath REX

Read that whole thing carefully and it as much as says that BECAUSE OF Israels unbeleif and disobedience THE GENTILES have the opportunity to receive salvation

Their disobedience means our salvation ...... until the full number of Gentiles are come in .... then it is all about Israel again.

If you chop down the olive tree Israel you will fall with it ..... because you hang on the branch grafted into the olive tree.

You may hate Israel but God relents with them in the end .... He keeps his covenant with them .... for his own reasons and his holy name .... not because they deserve it or anything

Just like you and i do not deserve anything either .... remember how often Christians are disobedient

We are worse than Israel sometimes.

God keeps his covenant with the Church and his covenant with Israel

Get over it.

None of us deserve anything whatsoever
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Arnie Manitoba said:
Their disobedience means our salvation ...... until the full number of Gentiles are come in .... then it is all about Israel again.
If you chop down the olive tree Israel you will fall with it ..... because you hang on the branch grafted into the olive tree.
You may hate Israel but God relents with them in the end .... He keeps his covenant with them .... for his own reasons and his holy name .... not because they deserve it or anything
The opportunity to receive salvation has always been available to everyone. All anyone living in another nation had to do was move to the land of Israel and worship GOD. Forgiveness used to be only in natural Jerusalem where GOD placed his name. Now, however, that old economy has been removed, and forgiveness is found only in the heavenly Jerusalem through the spirit, which is freely available to all men wherever they are.

The olive tree into which all believers are grafted is spiritual in nature; the natural has nothing to do with it. Also, don't confuse the root with the branches. The root is Jesus.

Boast not against the branches [the natural seed]. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root [Jesus], but the root [Jesus] thee. Romans 11:18
 

Angelina

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Hi Rex,

26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."
Who is "Israel" in verse 26?
Dispensationalists say in the Bible Israel must always be physical Israel, not some spiritual construct. Therefore by dispensationalist definition, Israel in verse 26 must be physical Israel and therefore Paul is predicting that at some time all physical Israel will be saved.
I'm not clued up on what a dispensationist is but I'm going to give you my thoughts on what this passage may mean. When he speaks about all Israel will be saved, he is talking about the 12 tribes. All the 12 tribes but not all the people who are associated [past and present] with those 12 tribes. "Jacob" symbolizes the 12 tribes.


If all Israel is to be saved, then Israel here refers to Israel as being all of God's people who are saved, no matter what their race, Jew or Gentile.
Not so...please note Revelation 7:5-8. 144,000 were sealed out of the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe. Also note those who had come through the great tribulation...Revelation 7: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. They were from all nations, tribes and tongues and they wore white robes which were washed by the blood of the lamb. If we are part of the 144,000 of Israel then who are these - since they are also Gentile believer's just like ourselves???? What makes them different to us??? :huh:

There is a clearly defined difference between the tribes of Israel and the redeemed from all nations and tribes and tongues...

Shalom!
 

Rex

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Angelina said:
Romans 11 has nothing to do with the Temple Rex...I'm just musing in relation to the O/P :huh: ...so just take a deep breath and calm yourself. No one is attacking you. I have an opinion and just in case you haven't realized this yet...this is a discussion forum.

Thanks
No one asked you to start another thread and Arnie started one on the subject to. It seems to be a popular topic. I was curious how it related to the thread it was in, no big deal. It wasn't directed at you personally Its to everyone that quotes this verse out of context.


Arnie Manitoba said:
Save your breath REX

Read that whole thing carefully and it as much as says that BECAUSE OF Israels unbeleif and disobedience THE GENTILES have the opportunity to receive salvation

Their disobedience means our salvation ...... until the full number of Gentiles are come in .... then it is all about Israel again.

If you chop down the olive tree Israel you will fall with it ..... because you hang on the branch grafted into the olive tree.

You may hate Israel but God relents with them in the end .... He keeps his covenant with them .... for his own reasons and his holy name .... not because they deserve it or anything

Just like you and i do not deserve anything either .... remember how often Christians are disobedient

We are worse than Israel sometimes.

God keeps his covenant with the Church and his covenant with Israel

Get over it.

None of us deserve anything whatsoever
Save your breath, your interpretation is completely out of context with handfuls of other verses.
I apparently doesn't bother people these days to hold interpretations that conflict, I have asked church pastors the same questions about conflicting teachings. You get two answers one is how dare you the others is its Gods plan only he knows.

You read it anyway you like Arnie just know its not in harmony with the NT and reading the OT without understanding the literal and spiritual Israel no wonder we end up with such goofy interpretations. You be happy with the thought that the bible contradicts itself. OK I'm sure its a great testimony.

Show me in Gen when God first promised Abraham that disobedience was necessary to bless all the nations of the world, I have the verses post in the OP.
 

Angelina

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I do not need to be asked to start a thread Rex. I split this thread so that it did not lead the other topic off track. It saves a lot of hassles and this is an interesting topic which needed further discussion...

BB
 

Rex

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Thank you, It was not my intention to offend you, I had Arnie's thread in mind when I put that reply together.


I'm not clued up on what a dispensationist is but I'm going to give you
my thoughts on what this passage may mean. When he speaks about all
Israel will be saved, he is talking about the 12 tribes. All the 12
tribes but not all the people who are associated [past and present] with
those 12 tribes. "Jacob" symbolizes the 12 tribes.
Angelina
Dispensation was made popular by Darby in the early 19th century, I would suggest you find out what you have been taught and its sources.
Your comfortable with translating that one verse and ignoring Romans 9:6-9 ? Israel is not Israel of the flesh but of the promise. So in Rev who is Israel? Those of the promise not the flesh. Israel the bride is all who are born unto Jesus not Abraham.
 

Angelina

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He is speaking of physical Israel. Not all of physical Israel [of the flesh or descended from] are Israel but those who are spiritually saved are citizen's of Israel.
This does not correspond with Revelation 7:9-17 because John is making a distinction between two groups of redeemed peoples.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I think Romans 11:28-32 covers it perfectly

(All Israel will be saved) ..... 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
 

Rex

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Its a rough road to realize what you've been taught for years is based on one verse in conflict with the NT.
many people don't make it, your whole church and or the pastor all believe it as well.
Good luck I have to go to work
 

Angelina

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Please note Revelation 7:9-17. These were all nations were from all tribes and tongues who had their robes washed with the blood of the lamb. Does that mean that all the nations of the earth [meaning everyone who ever lived] will be saved??? I do not think so neither do I think that all Israel [including those who were destroyed in the wilderness because of their disobedience] will be saved either...JMHO :)

Be Blessed!


Its a rough road to realize what you've been taught for years is based on one verse in conflict with the NT.
many people don't make it, your whole church and or the pastor all believe it as well.

Good luck I have to go to work
It seems quite clear cut to me but I have not been raised up with any type of theological background. Perhaps that is why it seems so simple. :)

PS: If you are referring to me Rex, I have learned 4 key things while being a part of the body of Christ.
1. The fall of man and need for a redeemer
2. The message of the cross - Gospel of Salvation
3. The Word of God
4. The leading, anointing and prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Bless you!
 

Brothertom

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I appreciate this thread, tackling a centuries old scriptural dillema...that "All Israel would be saved." Well, Judas was a Jew...Was he saved? Jesus called him a "son of perdition." & "better that he would not have been born"....& let us not forget the words of Jesus towards the pharisees :
" They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”..[ & they were right, Israels children...]

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the DEVIL, and the desires of your father you want to do.!"

He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

"He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”..........................

So, we see a standard here of WHO exactly is of Israel, & not....& unfortunately, most Jews, children of Abraham, will be cast into Hell, because they rejected the Messiah...who opened the gated for ALL THE WORLD...EVERYONE WHO WOULD RECEIVE JESUS & HIS BLOOD AS ATONEMENT. That was their beef with Jesus, & why they murdered Him; they rightly understood :

"Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs.
If we let Him alone like this, EVERYONE WILL BELIEVE IN HIM!, and the Romans will come and take TAKE AWAY OUR PLACE and nation....

Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death.....JESUS EXPOSED SONS OF THE DEVIL & THEY MURDERED HIM! It cannot be more clear, that just because you are a physical Jew...that you are not saved because of that alone. All of Israel is given the chance to receive Jesus & enter into the New Jerusalem.

"But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel.

.....nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.....!

"Galatia was a Gentile Church: In order to determine the correct meaning of Galatians 4:8-10, we need to realize first that the churches of Galatia were composed mainly of Gentile converts who, as former pagans, had served Greek and Asian gods and goddesses. They were not Jews and had never followed the traditional practices of Judaism or the Old Testament Scriptures."
[ Church at Home ]

....."And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the...
Israel of God."

Israel is the children of Promise.....faith in the resuurrection of Jesus as Lord Jahweh....of every tribe, nation & tongue.

Another thought; ....
It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Mourning for the Pierced One
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo."

God has not forgotton His promise to Abraham. Israel is a very cold place to Jesus...very cold....like Egypt or Sodom spiritually, but he will not leave them so. I think that the two witnesses will have a primary role in the evangelization of Israel. They will be preaching Jesus & for a long while "tormenting" the anti-Christ nations with awesome power & will be immortal unto the day of their deaths in Jerusalem. After 3 1/2 day they will be bodily resurrected in Jerusalem, & this will be a very, very public event...& will shake ALL of Jerusalem, where I believe all of Israel will have taken refuge...maybe millions, as the armies of ANTI-CHRIST will have massed up near Haifa in the great valley of Migiddo...to physically butcher every Jew there.... with 200 million radical Jihadists...surrounding Jerusalem, waiting for their cue to invade....& let the slaughter begin.

Then...there will be a great Earthquake, killing 7000 in the city...evil men & women sought out by the Lord..& the city will be divided into 3 parts..& then....the great repentance for Israel....accepting Jesus as Lord...with deep, deep, repentance.....mourning for an only Son...Jesus!..who they have rejected & hated for so long............& the Lord will grace them with His Holy Spirit...& maybe millions of die hard Jews will be saved in a day!...Millions..
[ this is the same place that Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal...I've stood on the crags up above this valley....it is huge, & as flat as a pancake...& kept by the Lord from expansion..]

When these two prophets are restored to life & resurrected, everyone will know, & the miracle will be absolutely amazing, fully acknowleging Jesus as Lord....as they watch God physically ressurect men....Wow! ...& they will receive Him...& then Jesus will stop time, reveal Himself as Jahweh....collect the Israel of God world wide & in Jerusalem, & begin to destroy the wicked.....& then the marrige supper.....& then the 1000 year rule of Jesus with US by is side!....All Israel will be saved!
 

Angelina

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Please note Revelation 7:9-17. These were all nations were from all tribes and tongues who had their robes washed with the blood of the lamb. Does that mean that all the nations of the earth [meaning everyone who ever lived] will be saved??? I do not think so neither do I think that all Israel [including those who were destroyed in the wilderness because of their disobedience] will be saved either...JMHO
There is a clearly defined difference between the tribes of Israel and the redeemed from all nations and tribes and tongues...
Just a PS: from my posts above - I do not agree with "Replacement theology."

Blessings!
 

dragonfly

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Hi Arnie,

Read that whole thing carefully and it as much as says that BECAUSE OF Israels unbeleif and disobedience THE GENTILES have the opportunity to receive salvation
Again let me say (as I've mentioned in other threads) that there were no 'Gentiles' until Israel and Jews appeared. Salvation was promised to ALL MEN in the garden of Eden, and that is what the angels sang about when Jesus Christ was born.

What Paul wrote there, was for the sake of the Jews, even though he was addressing it to the Gentiles. The Jews had forgotten they had been told by God centuries before, that they were supposed to be sharing their light with the Gentiles. But Paul had not forgotten. Acts 13:46, 47




Hi Angelina,

I don't believe in replacement theology either. True Israel moved on with God under the New Covenant. Although she gets called 'spiritual Israel', she is the only Israel who is actively complying with the terms of engagement which God has ordained, and it's being physically outworked in her daily living. That there are those of natural Gentile birth 'grafted in among' those of natural Israelite birth, was always God's plan. Eze 47:22, 23, Eph 2:15.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Rex.

Rex said:
I have no idea what Romans 11:25 has to do with a temple but in the mean time here is something to think about
Some People can take one verse and re-translate the entire new testament and prophesy as well

The proper and harmonious interpretation of Romans 11:25


Romans 11: 20 says "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:" Who are they? Paul says in verse 14, "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them whih are my flesh, and might save some of them."

Most of the Jews of Paul's time rejected Christ and they were broken off. Now Paul says in Romans 11: 25-26 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob."

Who is "Israel" in verse 26?

Dispensationalists say in the Bible Israel must always be physical Israel, not some spiritual construct. Therefore by dispensationalist definition, Israel in verse 26 must be physical Israel and therefore Paul is predicting that at some time all physical Israel will be saved.

This interpretation contradicts Paul's statement in verse 20 that the Jews were broken off because of unbelief.

If all Israel is to be saved, then Israel here refers to Israel as being all of God's people who are saved, no matter what their race, Jew or Gentile. This interpretation is consistent with what Paul says in
Romans 2: 28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

And this interpretation of Romans 11: 25-26 fits what Paul says in Galatians 3: 28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Paul is pointing out that after physical Israel was reborn, or the small remnant of physical Israel who were more faithful were translated into Christians as spiritual Israel race no longer matters in the eyes of God. And remember what Paul also says in Galatians 4: 22-26, "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other
by a freewoman.

23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Not only was race as a measure of acceptance by God done away with at the Cross, but the Cross opened up Christians to receive the Holy Spirit and operate in the Spirit. Operating in the Spirit, Christians are not in bondage to the old law of Mount Sinai. Christians are in Jerusalem which is free, not literal physical Jerusalem


Now you have two choices you can choose to believe the harmonious interpretation of Romans 11:25

Or you can take your black sharpie and start censoring the verses,
Romans 2:28-29
Gal 3:28
Gal 4:22-26
You don't need them any longer
And a list of others I will prove including the OT


If you have not removed your head from your @$$ yet

Please take your black sharpie and remove Romans 9:6-9
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor
because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On
the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be
reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”


Remove Matthew 3:9
and Luke 3:8 also

As to Abraham's promise
In Gen 12:3 remove all the families of the earth shall be blessed
Gen 18:18 do the same and in Gen 22:18 and as well in Gen 26:4

Why!! because you believe the promise to be for the Jews or Israel alone so scratch out the reference to the families and the nations of the world. God only loves the Jews LOL.
That all SOUNDS good UNTIL one asks the question, "Then with whom is Paul contrasting 'Isra'el?'" If he's not contrasting Isra'el with the Gentile believers, then the rest of what he said in Romans 11 makes no sense at all!

Sorry, your idea of who "Isra'el" represents is incorrect.
 

Rex

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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Rex.


That all SOUNDS good UNTIL one asks the question, "Then with whom is Paul contrasting 'Isra'el?'" If he's not contrasting Isra'el with the Gentile believers, then the rest of what he said in Romans 11 makes no sense at all!

Sorry, your idea of who "Isra'el" represents is incorrect.
Its a pick and choose world I guess. It doesn't surprise me retro you hold that 3.5 years in reserve for the Jews and hang a lot on that one verse, I can show 7 others its being mistranslated. So far all I've seen is Angelina's Rev explanation as to why it must be as you and her believe, but that's a bit like placing the cart before the horse that verse is used to formulate prophesy concerning the separation of the church and Israel in Rev not Rev confirming it.

Add this verse to the mishandling of Romans 11:25 Gal 3:29
I've lost count of the evidence that that disproves the Israel of Romans 11:25 is not the blood decedents of Abraham
Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise
Just for the sake of biblical support why don't you find me a NT verse that indicates all Israel as in the decedents of Abraham will be saved. Or have been purposely blinded so the Gentiles can be saved.
Or how ever you interpret it, some other NT verses to support what you believe it to mean, You all do believe in the new covenant I presume?
PS I don't Rev is a very good book to use to support basic truths in the NT gospel.


I don't know how much plainer it gets than Romans 9:6-9 Israel is not Israel of the flesh.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Rex said:
I don't know how much plainer it gets than Romans 9:6-9 Israel is not Israel of the flesh.
Rex ..... I think you have mis-understood Romans 9:6-9

Jacob was named Israel in Genesis 32:28

Romans is talking about Israels (Jacobs) children thru Abraham via his sons Issac and Ishmael

Issac's group are the real Israel
Ishmael group are are not Israel
that is what those verses are about

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel (Jacob) are Israel (of the promise).

7 Nor because they are his (Israels) (Jacobs) descendants are they all Abraham’s children.
it means only Israels descendants thru Issac are Israel
it means the descendants thru Ishmael are not Israel
“It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise (thru Issac) who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring


I didnt explain that very well Rex ..... but you will figure it out.
 

Rex

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Oct 17, 2012
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Arnie Manitoba said:
Rex ..... I think you have mis-understood Romans 9:6-9

Jacob was named Israel in Genesis 32:28

Romans is talking about Israels (Jacobs) children thru Abraham via his sons Issac and Ishmael

Issac's group are the real Israel
Ishmael group are are not Israel
that is what those verses are about

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel (Jacob) are Israel (of the promise).

7 Nor because they are his (Israels) (Jacobs) descendants are they all Abraham’s children.
it means only Israels descendants thru Issac are Israel
it means the descendants thru Ishmael are not Israel
“It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise (thru Issac) who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring


I didnt explain that very well Rex ..... but you will figure it out.
You don't have a clue about the promise do you

Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise