Dear Abdallah

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Ricky W

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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Biblical Tetragramaton;19514)
As salaam Alaykum, is literally what rolled off of my tongue as I read your post.I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and you can be assured the respect is now mutual.Dear Bruv,To begin, I would just like to take a second and stand in defense of my brothers and sisters here on this Forum. They are doing the best they can by them, and nobody could ask more from them. While I very much disagree with them on seemingly a growing list of things, I nevertheless have respect for them. Amy knows Islam quite well, and is very bold.If you have read other posts from me, then you are no doubt aware of my stance. I believe in respecting Islam and loving Muslims, just as I respect everyone's beliefs and love them. That respect, however, does not mean that I wish to leave well enough alone. Not at all. I seek to discuss at great length the issues between our faiths, that we might both benefit from each others knowledge, and may perhaps be led, mutually, closer to Allah, and to the Truth.So, to this I invite you openly; that we should discuss each others faiths, and I hope to both present to you my reasons for believing the Gospel to be the Truth of God, and simultaneously hear about your faith and learn from you.Surely as the Qur'an says;“…either we or you are on right guidance or manifest error!”-Surah 34:24So I propose that we come together, just as both the Bible, and the Qur'an tell us; in the best of manner. “Don’t have anything to do with stupid and mindless arguments… The Lord’s servant must not quarrel.”~ 2 Timothy 2:23-24and yet; "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."~1 Peter 1:15-16Just as also the Qur'an declares clearly;“Do not dispute with the people of the book except in the best way”~Surah 29:46Together, I believe that we can search for the truth of these matters, keeping an open mind always, with respect and integrity as our guiding force.I very much look forward to your next post. Bless you.~Shalom ElechemPS - The reason I didn't post Abdallah's responses is because they don't exist. The letters you see are letters where a fictional character named Theophilus, writes to his Muslim friend. These letters are not, so far as we know, based on any actual letters. However, the point of the Pamphlet is to teach Christians what a proper response would be to a Muslim objection. The proper response is always to respond, with respect and gentleness, just as the scriptures tell us.
That's why i'll try to keep patience as much as I could
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.Wallahu a'lam.
 

Tyrel

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Dear Bruv,I wonder if and/or when you will be replying to me. I await your reply still.Ricky; your patience, in my eyes, is quite revealing of your character. Thank you for your zeal. :cool:
 

HammerStone

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I've kept out of this thread for a while.II John 1:9-11
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
I hold very strongly to these verses and this is why this thread is located in this particular forum. I see some one-worldism religion creeping in ever so stealthily and this is one doctrine I don't allow on the site.Luke 12:51-53
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Division is going to occur. It's nothing new under the sun. Christ mentioned it almost a full two millennia ago. I have no problem with reasonable division when humans are involved. I don't particularly care if we agree in Christ's way to salvation but disagree about Adam and Eve, three earth ages, or very nearly anything else.However, a Christian is called a Christian for a reason, a Muslim is called a Muslim for a reason, a Jew is called a Jew for a reason, and so on. YHVH is my God, Yeshua(Christ) his son my Savior. I recognize the clear right of others to believe otherwise. I harbor no animosity towards a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or any other religion follower because of what they believe. I recognize that I do not have a right over there beliefs nor do they have one over mine. This is what is so ironic about the precursor to this modernist view of one-worldism - humanism says its okay to belive in a religion so long as it is deemed beneficiary to everyone else.I have no hate for any Muslim on this board. Ricky has been welcomed and allowed to post just as anyone else in the appropriate forums. This is first and foremost a Christian forum, but I think he would agree in that I've never been unfriendly towards him and I harbor no animosity. I assume the very same from him, as he seems to be an agreeable guy. I use him only example.However, I will not bow to any other god or deity. I don't put a lowercase letter out of disrespect. It's clear that if its not a doctrine of Christ, then its not to be welcomed or passed out. Recognizing the rights of other believers does not mean that I have to believe we worship the same God or bow to theirs. I won't. That's in the Bible. The OT repeatedly talks about adultery committed against God and the NT expounds upon it.John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
You either believe in Jesus, or you don't. He didn't say there were many paths to knowing God. He either said you reach the Father by me, or you don't reach him.
 

Tyrel

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(Denver;19660)
I've kept out of this thread for a while.II John 1:9-11I hold very strongly to these verses and this is why this thread is located in this particular forum. I see some one-worldism religion creeping in ever so stealthily and this is one doctrine I don't allow on the site.Luke 12:51-53Division is going to occur. It's nothing new under the sun. Christ mentioned it almost a full two millennia ago. I have no problem with reasonable division when humans are involved. I don't particularly care if we agree in Christ's way to salvation but disagree about Adam and Eve, three earth ages, or very nearly anything else.However, a Christian is called a Christian for a reason, a Muslim is called a Muslim for a reason, a Jew is called a Jew for a reason, and so on. YHVH is my God, Yeshua(Christ) his son my Savior. I recognize the clear right of others to believe otherwise. I harbor no animosity towards a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or any other religion follower because of what they believe. I recognize that I do not have a right over there beliefs nor do they have one over mine. This is what is so ironic about the precursor to this modernist view of one-worldism - humanism says its okay to belive in a religion so long as it is deemed beneficiary to everyone else.I have no hate for any Muslim on this board. Ricky has been welcomed and allowed to post just as anyone else in the appropriate forums. This is first and foremost a Christian forum, but I think he would agree in that I've never been unfriendly towards him and I harbor no animosity. I assume the very same from him, as he seems to be an agreeable guy. I use him only example.However, I will not bow to any other god or deity. I don't put a lowercase letter out of disrespect. It's clear that if its not a doctrine of Christ, then its not to be welcomed or passed out. Recognizing the rights of other believers does not mean that I have to believe we worship the same God or bow to theirs. I won't. That's in the Bible. The OT repeatedly talks about adultery committed against God and the NT expounds upon it.John 14:6You either believe in Jesus, or you don't. He didn't say there were many paths to knowing God. He either said you reach the Father by me, or you don't reach him.
Dear Denver,Finally, somebody who is reasonable. I hope you don't think me rash, but allow me to explain to you why first, what you said I completely agree with, and yet I see a danger in your words, for they may be misleading.First, I affirm once again that I agree whole heartedly with what you have said. However, the connotation here {which is a misunderstanding} that Allah is not synonymous with Dieu, or Elohim, or God, is one I hope to dispel.I have already explained my position extensively, in various words. I am not preaching a one world religion, and while I don't fully understand your fear of it, I do respect that it is something you look out for. I want to assure you that this is far from what I, to this point, have preached.If you saw anything in my words which you think could have been misinterpreted as that, then please point them out. However, I myself have stood firm on this from the beginning, with solidarity and conviction; that all religions contain some truth, along with some falsehoods. The Arabic word Allah undeniably refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, and the Apostles. As I have pointed out, Arabic Christians use the word Allah all the time. It is literally no different than saying 'God'. Imagine trying to correct an Arabic Church because they worship Allah. They would likely be absolutely perplexed by the notion that using the Arabic word for God is in any way an admission of Islamic beliefs. The same could be said for an Arabic speaking Rabbi.The Arabic translations of the Bible, likewise, always translate God as Allah. This is because anyone who understand Arabic understands, likewise, that the Arabic word does not connotate an Islamic belief necessarily.Imagine, for instance, being back in the early church. Let's imagine that the Gnostic's were teaching their doctrines about God and Christ. Most of which are far from true, and as I have shown actually formed the basis for Islam through Collyridianism. Let us imagine that you speak Hebrew, and are a Jewish Christian, while the surrounding Gnostics speak Greek. Would you then also say that their "theos" is not the same god as your 'Elohim'? Can you imagine Tertullian championing that argument? Or perhaps Justin Martyr? Instead, I would imagine that they would readily rebuke you, and present proper apologetics.Islam has false teachings concerning God, but it does indeed teach about God. It professes to hold the truth of the one true God, who's word is Yeshua. The God who sent us the Ingil {Gospel} and who also sent Moses with the Tawrat {Torah}. However, to combat these falsehoods, we much first understand them. Imagine Tertullian or Iraneus, arguing that Gnostic teachings are false on the basis that the Gnostics did wrong things. Things, perhaps, even in contrast to the Didache, which is as simple as it gets. If they had presented such arguments, Gnosticism would be alive and well today. Instead, what did they do? Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Iraneus, and a host of others, learnt Gnostic teachings inside out, and found therein much truth, mixed with a great deal of lies. They excerpted a great deal of diligence in exposing the inherent contradictions within Gnosticism, and in turn presenting the Gospel. They did this with volumes upon volumes of apologetic literature, displaying their intimate knowledge of Gnosticism.They first went to great lengths to understand Gnosticism, then they brought clarity to the true Church's teachings. Now, the reason one might find, in their writings, an air of rebuke of the Gnostics, is not because they were teaching false teachings, but rather because they were doing this, and posing as the Church. The Gnostics would portray themselves as the Church, and likewise their teachings as apostolic.With Islam, this is not so. Islam is by all admission it's own religion. It has never claimed to be 'Christian'. While surely finding root in Christian teachings, Islam is unlike Mormonism or cults such as Jehovah Witnesses, in that it distinguishes itself clearly from Christianity.I believe the proper approach to Islam is charity.I believe that Islam has a great deal of Truth, along with a great deal of falsehood. I know, from experience, that if we would just take time and explain to them in love what the Gospel really is, they are more than open in hearing us out. They have a disposition, of course, and believe that we are incorrect. However, this is not based on any sound study of religions, but rather based on what other Muslims have taught them. Muslims, almost invariably, are open to discussing matters of faith with Christians. This is true as well in the middle east. What the Muslim is inclined to not do, is to convert.This is why it is so important to graciously and charitably approach them with the Gospel, presenting it with the fullness of it's integrity.I do not believe that it is right or good, or even acceptable, that Christians should think of Muslims as antagonists, and/or that we should demonize Islam. For when we demonize someone's beliefs, we inadvertently dehumanize their beliefs and them.I have not once said that we should be ignorant of Islam. I have not said that we should not be educated as to what falsehoods it has. I have, in fact, asserted that we need to know both fully. We need to understand the Islamic world view, in order to truly understand the Muslim. Going through the effort of learning their beliefs is tedious to some, perhaps. However, I do not believe that proper evangelism, or even proper religious discourse, can be made possible without that respect. Respect being; to fully understand what they think, and how they see things.Only once you know what part of the problem the student is having trouble with, can you properly explain it to them. I am not, here, suggesting that Muslims are in any way our 'students'. However, the same principal applies; unless we understand their position, and consider it, we cannot bring them clarity effectively.This is all I have suggested. Yet, some on here have attacked me for this. Believing that Muslims are waging war on Christianity and all Jews, in full knowledge of the Gospel. They do not have full knowledge of the Gospel. In fact, in both the Middle east, and in North America, the Muslim suffers from misunderstandings galore {which also the Christian suffers from in their understanding of Islam}. Most misunderstand the Trinity, confusing the term Father, with God, and understanding that the Holy Spirit, a being separate from the Father, emanates from the Father and Son. Most do not know how Christians understand their faith. Others on here have taken a more bold approach and presented inhumane actions committed by Muslims in the Middle east, as though this brought clarity and understanding to the Christian concerning what Islam is, and how the Muslim see's the world. This is a grossly despicable suggestion, as it does not either help the Christian better understand Islam, nor does it help them be particularly open towards it.Over the past few days alone, we have seen the reactions of Christians towards Islam and Muslims, due in whole to this militant approach towards understanding Islam.http://www.christianityboard.com/beslan-t3956.html?t=3956Perfect example;(Waka;19660)
Those monsters raped and killed school children in Beslan!
When I simply suggested that this approach was not beneficial and in fact, more harmful than not, I received invariably, a varying degree of rebuke. Some of this rebuke, has been an attack on my personal character, with absolutely no basis whatsoever. My Christianity has been questioned, along with my ignorance of Islam asserted. Needless to say, I have felt quite attacked. For a while, I felt misunderstood. However, given the amount of time and effort I've put into explaining myself, I am convinced that I can be fully understood by anyone who has read my posts, and indeed I am understood by those who have.I assure you, there is no trace of any preaching of 'one world religion'. Denver, I beg of you to read what I have written. If this isn't possible, I request that you at very least hear me out now, and read the article you have apparently deleted. If you read through it, you will know what you have deleted. Which has been called "evil" and "preaching false one world religion". These attacks are as far from being accurate or fair, as the attacks on my character thus far have been.With this I leave you, knowing that you aren't unreasonable. I simply wish for you to properly understand that which I have been saying. If you disagree still, I will be surprised, but more than able to accept it. However, I cannot accept that you found any trace whatsoever in my posts of preaching the falsehood which you so fear.I am preaching nothing more than the Gospel, and I am suggesting nothing beyond approaching Islam with respect and understanding, that we might better understand, in turn, the Muslim. I have backed myself here with Scripture throughout my posts. I have backed myself up with logic and reason throughout my posts. I have backed myself up, drawing on my experience in ministry to Muslims. I have backed myself up with the testimony of at least one Scholar, who has been ministering to Muslims his whole life. If this has not been enough to convince you, I am in awe, yet not unaccepting, as I have already said. However, for anyone to interpret what I have said as "all religions are one because they contain truth", is an insult to me, as I am convinced this misunderstanding cannot survive in anyone's mind, if only they have read through my posts.I shall leave this with you, as is. I hope my words aren't taken as insulting, imprudent, or disrespectful. Instead I hope my words make my position all the more clear.Ever in hope,~Tyrel
 

RobinD69

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Whats a Kenite?Never mind I found it but what is your use of Kenite,I thought they were wiped out by Israel.
 

Christina

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{QUOTE} With this I leave you, knowing that you aren't unreasonable. I simply wish for you to properly understand that which I have been saying. If you disagree still, I will be surprised, but more than able to accept it. However, I cannot accept that you found any trace whatsoever in my posts of preaching the falsehood which you so fear.I am preaching nothing more than the Gospel, and I am suggesting nothing beyond approaching Islam with respect and understanding, that we might better understand, in turn, the Muslim. I have backed myself here with Scripture throughout my posts. I have backed myself up with logic and reason throughout my posts. I have backed myself up, drawing on my experience in ministry to Muslims. I have backed myself up with the testimony of at least one Scholar, who has been ministering to Muslims his whole life. If this has not been enough to convince you, I am in awe, yet not unaccepting, as I have already said. However, for anyone to interpret what I have said as "all religions are one because they contain truth", is an insult to me, as I am convinced this misunderstanding cannot survive in anyone's mind, if only they have read through my posts.{quote}Need I go back and reposts your quotes?? No one has ever attacked your miistering to them We have attacked your defence of a false religion. And a false god as being the same as ours. I dont know why you cant get the difference. I have told you many occasions its not your ministry I disagree with. How can you teach against what you claim to be wisdom of the same god?????
 

Tyrel

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Need I go back and reposts your quotes?? No one has ever attacked your miistering to them We have attacked your defence of a false religion. And a false god as being the same as ours. I dont know why you cant get the difference. I have told you many occasions its not your ministry I disagree with. How can you teach against what you claim to be wisdom of the same god?????
There is no way you're reading my posts...
 

Tyrel

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ok, to clarify once again;I defended Islam where it was being accused falsely. Allah is not a pagan moon god, even if some root word in the Arabic was used to refer to a Moon god. The word Allah, is defined very clearly.Now I feel like a broken record.. you can't have been reading my posts and missed this. It's not possible. I want to continue, but I really can't at this point. I have said this so many times.in need of a break, ~Tyrel
 

Amy

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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19701)
Dear Denver,First, I affirm once again that I agree whole heartedly with what you have said. However, the connotation here {which is a misunderstanding} that Allah is not synonymous with Dieu, or Elohim, or God, is one I hope to dispel.I have already explained my position extensively, in various words. I am not preaching a one world religion, and while I don't fully understand your fear of it, I do respect that it is something you look out for. I want to assure you that this is far from what I, to this point, have preached.
And yet you have the audacity to say you are NOT teaching one world religion? Are you on drugs? Your position is on ground zero !(Biblical Tetragramaton;19701)
The Arabic word Allah undeniably refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, and the Apostles. As I have pointed out, Arabic Christians use the word Allah all the time. It is literally no different than saying 'God'. Imagine trying to correct an Arabic Church because they worship Allah. They would likely be absolutely perplexed by the notion that using the Arabic word for God is in any way an admission of Islamic beliefs. The same could be said for an Arabic speaking Rabbi.The Arabic translations of the Bible, likewise, always translate God as Allah. This is because anyone who understand Arabic understands, likewise, that the Arabic word does not connotate an Islamic belief necessarily.
You sympathetic moron ! In Saudia Arab there is no religious freedom at all. Islam is the state religion. One is not allowed to practice their own faith in open. There are no churches there and there is no bible there and probably you'll fit right in.http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/impact_...audi_arabia.htmIt is not my imagination, this is for real !Bible strictly says that Jesus is the SON, Quran strictly FORBIDS it. Have you ever cared to absorb what you read?In some countries where there is arabic culture and yet they allow to translate bible it dose have a strong cultural influence. Even then you insist that we worship the same God then you are doing utter blasphemy. Translation dose not mean that we worship the same God.I take this as serious offense. You can not evangelize God by compromising the Word of God. Get that straight in your thick head !!!(Biblical Tetragramaton;19701)
I believe that Islam has a great deal of Truth, along with a great deal of falsehood. I know, from experience, that if we would just take time and explain to them in love what the Gospel really is, they are more than open in hearing us out.
I dare you to show me one truth in Islam about Christ from his birth, his entity, crusifiction and the eternity? (Biblical Tetragramaton;19701)
I have not once said that we should be ignorant of Islam. I have not said that we should not be educated as to what falsehoods it has. [url="http://www.christianityboard.com/beslan-t3956.html?t=3956]http://www.christianityboard.com/beslan-t3956.html?t=3956[/url]Perfect example !
Exactly, perfect example of you in the way of awareness. In other words, YES you are saying no to be educated, to learn what is going around in the world. Blind to the tortured and rejecting global news ! Have I once said that we should do the same to them? (Biblical Tetragramaton;19701)
Over the past few days alone, we have seen the reactions of Christians towards Islam and Muslims, due in whole to this militant approach towards understanding Islam.
How dare you categories us as militants, probably you have just heard the word and not seen it in practice as you refuse to be educated. There is nothing more dangerous than a fool !EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NO TIME, BUT IGNORING A FOOL LIKE YOU WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO BEGIN WITH, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!
 

Amy

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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19746)
There is no way you're reading my posts...
Your posts are worth puking, go read them yourself... they'll do good to your stomach !
 

Amy

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Greetings Denver,I may share my FATHER with my siblings but I share NOT two fathers for that will only make me a ''-------'' !I have lot of patience for my siblings in Christ. I believe we are branches of the same tree and as long as we are connected to the tree of life, we have hope. I hate to fight my siblings and I try my best and God knows better my intentions. But someone who deliberately confuses the Father with others can not be a sibling and therefore I refuse to turn the other cheek. I have nothing to be proud off but I take pride in my Father for who He is and no one can take that away from me.True today I lost my temper to no regrets. You may choose to take desired action but at the same time I urge you to fix this for we are not children of an impotent Father !sincerely,-amy
 

Jordan

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Dear Denver,There is much evil, going on this forum (not this particular forum, but the WHOLE entire thing, CB) I ask you to fix this...it's downright wrong...II John 1:9-11 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.SincerelyJagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Tyrel

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Dear Amy, While I have chosen to remain silent on most of your post, it is because I am fairly convinced that it was not written in love, but in overwhelming frustration. Don't worry about it, I have already forgotten it. However, I did wish to take you up on this part;(Amy;19754)
I dare you to show me one truth in Islam about Christ from his birth, his entity, crusifiction and the eternity?
This is an excellent question. Can one find truths in the Qur'an about Jesus?"The Messiah, 'Isa, son of Mary, is a messenger of Allah, and his Word which he conveyed unto Mary and a spirit from him. So believe in Allah and his messengers."~Sura al-Nisa' 4:170-He is the Messiah-He is the Word of God -He comes from God"He said, `I am a messenger of the Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless boy;' she said `How can I have a boy when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste.' He said, `So it will be.' Thy Lord says, `It is easy for me. And we will make him a revelation to mankind and a mercy from us, and it is a thing ordained.'" ~Sura Maryam 19:19-21-Born of a Virgin-declared by an angel-he is a revelation, not to the Christians alone, but a revelation to all mankindin love,~Tyrel
 

HammerStone

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I'm closing this thread and for once I am going to take the last word in a topic that I close.I call it for what it is, the idea that the different faiths out there worship the same God is one-worldism. Again, you're not going to find a person on this board that believes that all other faiths should be killed, nor will you find anyone who doesn't recognize that right of others to worship whom they please.The fact of the matter is, for the Muslims, Allah is not the godhead, he is the god. That's what makes them a Muslim and not a Christian. They don't follow Christ. To be a Christian, you follow Christ. It's really pretty simple and doesn't need an essay to be explained. Either Christ is the Son of God, or he is not.The one thing lacking in this entire little episode is anything pertaining to the Scriptures. All of the arguments are coming from the outside in for us Christians. What does the Bible say? I leave that up to the reader.
 
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