The Moral Law not Abrogated by Christ to Believers
- Thread starter JB_Reformed Baptist
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Take your pick of Popes kneeling to statues ect https://www.google.com/search?q=the+pope+kneeling+to+statues&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USMungo said:
fficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Ilt9UanUL4rD2QXuyoHYDg&biw=1351&bih=647&sei=KVt9Uf6ZEOTd2QXev4HYAw#um=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=catholics+worshiping+to+images&oq=catholics+worshiping+to+images&gs_l=img.3...86988.91803.4.92280.10.10.0.0.0.0.151.1014.6j4.10.0...0.0...1c.1.11.img.mejtMSSFG_0&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45645796,d.b2I&fp=1bee9522b1a4e604&biw=1351&bih=647or redefine the word search, kneeling and bowing your head to a statue sure looks like idol worship to me.
Do we really have to wonder whether people bow to idols today? Monkey see monkey do.
That's not worship.Rex said:Take your pick of Popes kneeling to statues ect https://www.google.com/search?q=the+pope+kneeling+to+statues&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US
or redefine the word search, kneeling and bowing your head to a statue sure looks like idol worship to me.
Do we really have to wonder whether people bow to idols today? Monkey see monkey do.
That is simply honouring the person represented by the image.Worship is what is in the heart. You do not know people's hearts.
Bowing is not worship.
Bowing is obeisance, showing respect
obeisance
n noun deferential respect. Øa gesture expressing this, such as a bow
Concise Oxford English DIctionary
Idol an image or representation of God or a person used as an object of worshipMungo said:
i·dol
/ˈīdl/
Noun
- An image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
- A person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered: "movie idol Robert Redford".
Synonyms
god - graven image
kneeling present participle of kneel
Verb
(of a person) Be in or assume a position in which the body is supported by a knee or the knees, typically as a sign of reverence or...
bowing present participle of bow (Verb)
Verb
- Play (a stringed instrument or music) using a bow: "the techniques by which the pieces were bowed".
- Bend the head or upper part of the body as a sign of respect, greeting, or shame: "he turned and bowed to his father".
No matter how you try to redefine the English language it still amounts to worship
wor·ship
/ˈwərSHip/
Noun
The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity: "ancestor worship".
It matters little what is in the heart when the action is an expression of reverence or worship
a bending of the knee or bowing is a sign of submission.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did not bend the knee
1 Kings 19:18
Romans 11:4
I can always predict that the Catholic apologist will say, "That's not worship, they are honoring him/her".Rex said:
Looks like falling down at someone's feet, is worshipping them. At least that is the Biblical definition.
Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
And they say "Peter was the first Pope". If he were here today, in Rome, he would be hated by the RCC.
Rex said:
No. It isn't worship.
Of course it all depends on your definition of worship. If, like Humpty Dumpty, words mean whatever you want them to mean you can define worship in any way you like, But that does not lead to meaningful discourse.
Protestants have actually redefined the word “worship” with their own definition. It originally mean being worthy
O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) "condition of being worthy, honor, renown," from weorð "worthy" (see worth) + -scipe (see -ship). Sense of "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being" is first recorded c.1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful (c.1300). The verb is recorded from c.1200. (from the Online Etymology Dictionary)
The word originally had a broad meaning of being worthy and until recently we (in England anyway) used to address mayors and judges as “your worship”, or refer to the mayor as his worship the mayor. I recently saw a report concerning the Mayor of our town and he was referred to as the Worshipfull Mayor
The Protestant Archbishop Thomas Cranmer wrote the Anglican book of common prayer. The marriage ceremony in use until quite recently included the line from the groom to the bride “with my body I thee worship”
Bowing is not worship.
Protestants try to equate bowing with worship and thus accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary or Saints when they bow or kneel to her.
But take this Hebrew word uishthchu (plural uishthchuu) which means bow down or prostrate. It is translated into English as either bow or worship depending on the context as in these examples from the KJV
Here as worship:
“And the man bowed down his head, and worshipped (uishthchu) the LORD” (Gen 24:26)
“Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped (uishthchu)”
(Ex 34:8)
But here as bowing.
“he [Nathan] bowed himself (uishthchu) before the king with his face to the ground” (1Kg 1:23)
“And the king [Solomon] rose up to meet her, and bowed himself (uishthchu) unto her”. (1Kg 2:19)
Catholics distinguish between the adoration due to God alone, called latria (Latin/Greek) and the veneration or honour due to humans, especially those who have died and are with Jesus in heaven, which is called dulia (Greek). These two words were used from early times to make this distinction.
Incidentally the English word Idolatry comes from the Latin idololatria, from the Greek eidololatria meaning the adoration (latria) of idols.
The Catholic Church is therefore very clear on the different types of honour due to God and to humans.
Images are not idols. They are simply images, whether 2 dimensional or 3 dimensional.
Exactly, and if they are not worshipped they are not idols
Except that as I have shown it is NOT the Biblical definition. Do you note that there are two actionsAxehead said:
1. Falling down at the feet
2. worship
Falling at someones feet is not worship. I can't get the picture onto this post but I have a picture of someone kneeling at the feet of the Queen of England when they are being given a knighthood. He is not worshipping the Queen. He is showing her respect and honour.
And they told the king, saying, Behold Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground. (1kg 1:23)
Was Nathan the prophet worshipping the King David?
Or was he just showing him respect and honour?
And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king. And the king said, What wouldest thou? (1Kg 1:16)
Was Bathsheba worshipping the king?
Or was she just showing him respect and honour?
One has to get past what a lot of men's traditions think and say about God's law in order to understand Paul's meaning that God's law is established through Christ Jesus.
God's laws are Eternal. He established them with His creation. So in that sense, it's about an eternal idea, because the earth is forever as written. Even as God is Eternal, so is His law. But that's a different idea from ceremonial practices and such, i.e. playing religion.
This is why Paul covers God's laws in an eternal aspect in Romans 1 and 1 Timothy 1, and Galatians 5 while giving warning for this time about walking by the flesh vs. by The Spirit. In Rom.7 Paul says God's law is 'spiritual'. It means not of the flesh. And in God's future Eternity, those worthy of that time will be perfect in following it. Yet perfection is not of this present world we are in, nor in our present state. We can only be counted as perfect through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ until that future time of the adoption of the sons of God is completed.
There's still many associated aspects between the two Covenants. In the Old Covenant times the people were required a fleshy mediator for atonement of their sins, i.e, the Levitical priesthood, that through various washings, ceremonial acts of sacrifice., etc. Our Lord Jesus Christ replaced that, as He is The Pefect Sacrifice for sin now.
But as Apostle Paul also showed in those Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1, Galatians 5, and 1 Cor.6, we can put ourselves in danger by doing those things in the flesh which Paul warned about, which is a continuation of the same warnings which God establsihed among His people through Moses. A believer on Christ can repent and come out of those flesh works. But a believer that takes license in those things is fooling theirself, and making Christ's Grace a mockery.
Does this mean we sin by not keeping the holy days as per the Old Covenant requirements? Absolutely not, for Christ became those things too. For example, the Christian sabbath can be any day now, 7 days a week if one has the propensity to do so. Accoring to Apostle Paul, Christ Jesus became our Passover sacrificed for us too, so the Old Covenant passover was fulfilled in Him too. As for health ordinances of the OT, did Christ fulfill that too? No. The difference is that eating away from God's clean food lists is a sin to our flesh body still (because it can make our body unhealthy), but it's not a condemnation unto His Salvation.
What about loving thy neighbor as thyself from Leviticus 19? Clearly that is one of God's commandments per His laws that was well established by our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the two most important commandments; the other being to love God with all thy heart and mind and soul. That loving of course doesn't come from our flesh though, now does it? That's a real good example of the type of God's laws that are Eternal, and will never expire with this present world.
A study through the Old Testament laws while having in mind the question, "Did our Lord Jesus fulfill this literally or spiritually", is a way to understand exactly what He did away with, and what He established upon the cross. This is why we see Apostle Paul pulling from the Old Testament laws time and time again with applying them within Christ's Church (like 1 Cor.5 with one of the brethren that was having intercourse with his own mother).
God's laws are Eternal. He established them with His creation. So in that sense, it's about an eternal idea, because the earth is forever as written. Even as God is Eternal, so is His law. But that's a different idea from ceremonial practices and such, i.e. playing religion.
This is why Paul covers God's laws in an eternal aspect in Romans 1 and 1 Timothy 1, and Galatians 5 while giving warning for this time about walking by the flesh vs. by The Spirit. In Rom.7 Paul says God's law is 'spiritual'. It means not of the flesh. And in God's future Eternity, those worthy of that time will be perfect in following it. Yet perfection is not of this present world we are in, nor in our present state. We can only be counted as perfect through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ until that future time of the adoption of the sons of God is completed.
There's still many associated aspects between the two Covenants. In the Old Covenant times the people were required a fleshy mediator for atonement of their sins, i.e, the Levitical priesthood, that through various washings, ceremonial acts of sacrifice., etc. Our Lord Jesus Christ replaced that, as He is The Pefect Sacrifice for sin now.
But as Apostle Paul also showed in those Romans 1, 1 Timothy 1, Galatians 5, and 1 Cor.6, we can put ourselves in danger by doing those things in the flesh which Paul warned about, which is a continuation of the same warnings which God establsihed among His people through Moses. A believer on Christ can repent and come out of those flesh works. But a believer that takes license in those things is fooling theirself, and making Christ's Grace a mockery.
Does this mean we sin by not keeping the holy days as per the Old Covenant requirements? Absolutely not, for Christ became those things too. For example, the Christian sabbath can be any day now, 7 days a week if one has the propensity to do so. Accoring to Apostle Paul, Christ Jesus became our Passover sacrificed for us too, so the Old Covenant passover was fulfilled in Him too. As for health ordinances of the OT, did Christ fulfill that too? No. The difference is that eating away from God's clean food lists is a sin to our flesh body still (because it can make our body unhealthy), but it's not a condemnation unto His Salvation.
What about loving thy neighbor as thyself from Leviticus 19? Clearly that is one of God's commandments per His laws that was well established by our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the two most important commandments; the other being to love God with all thy heart and mind and soul. That loving of course doesn't come from our flesh though, now does it? That's a real good example of the type of God's laws that are Eternal, and will never expire with this present world.
A study through the Old Testament laws while having in mind the question, "Did our Lord Jesus fulfill this literally or spiritually", is a way to understand exactly what He did away with, and what He established upon the cross. This is why we see Apostle Paul pulling from the Old Testament laws time and time again with applying them within Christ's Church (like 1 Cor.5 with one of the brethren that was having intercourse with his own mother).
It is the difference to those who worship a living God, and those whose God is dead to them. If God , Christ are alive what is the purpose of images, if He is with you always why do you need to be reminded of Him,
Luk 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
IF they are not idols than go and destroy them all.......
I will have no other Gods before me...
In all His Love
Luk 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
IF they are not idols than go and destroy them all.......
I will have no other Gods before me...
In all His Love
Good to know you have no real biblical objection to images so you have to invent a rather pathetic one.mjrhealth said:
You are entitled to your personal preferences, just as long as you don't try and make out other people's are wrong.
That's a good point MJR I can't imagine being reminded or using an image as a form of remembrance of the presents of God with-in me. The continual relationship threw the HS.
In the same manner I just look and shake my head at the parade of holy objects and people "venerated" with the presents of Christ, what is holy the alter or God that glorifies the alter. It would seem a cheep counterfeit or relic is sadly all that some have.
In the same manner I just look and shake my head at the parade of holy objects and people "venerated" with the presents of Christ, what is holy the alter or God that glorifies the alter. It would seem a cheep counterfeit or relic is sadly all that some have.
Oooh no not the magic catholic cookie.
To bad they don't even offer the drink with communion any more, just what is communion without both the bread and wine?
Half a$$ed that what it is.
The church rips you off at every opportunity to know Christ even in communion
To bad they don't even offer the drink with communion any more, just what is communion without both the bread and wine?
Half a$$ed that what it is.
The church rips you off at every opportunity to know Christ even in communion
They do everywhere I go to Mass. You must be living in the past, or just ignorant.Rex said:Oooh no not the magic catholic cookie.
To bad they don't even offer the drink with communion any more, just what is communion without both the bread and wine?
Half a$$ed that what it is.
The church rips you off at every opportunity to know Christ even in communion
I know what my choice would be.
My two cents:
Jesus, equal to the Father and like the Holy Spirit, and being the appointed judge of the world, was being accused of lawlessness by some of His contemporaries, but He had this to say:
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19
Stated plainly: The law will continue until the heavens roll up as a scroll, the stars fall from the sky, and the earth is burnt to a cinder. However: "5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust." 1 Timothy 1:5-11
The implication is that the law is always convicting us of sin, whether Christian or not. However, those who have believed Jesus have "passed out of Judgment" or been delivered from the condemnation of the law. The law applies to us as Christians, but the condemnation it brings doesn't, however I must qualify that statement by defining Christian as being one who has believed Christ and been born again by His Spirit. The Holy Spirit is, among other purposes, our keeper; He is the seal upon us that identifies us as belonging to God. This last statement provides room for discussion as well, but falls under the topic of our assurance of salvation and can be addressed elsewhere. Paul had a lot to say about our freedom and liberty in Christ, yet professing Christians still argue that we should observe the law. Here is the problem with that thinking.
The law is good, prohibiting evil works and perscribing good works, but James, the brother of our Lord warns us that the breaking of any part of the law makes one guilty under the law: 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “Do not murder.”[c] Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment James 2:10-13
James gets this idea from the law itself:
26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ Deuteronomy 27:26 The law provided temporary atonement through animal sacrifice for the commiting of unintentional sin, but the punishment for intentional sin is typically death. Under grace, even intentional sin is covered by the blood of Christ (e.g. the thief upon the cross had obviously been guilty of intentional sin), though that doesn't imply that sin has no consequence to those under grace. Sin brings discipline to those who are adopted by God. Sound doctrine informs us that we are evil by nature and incapable of being entirely righteous, our best efforts being as impure as filthy rags (actually menstrual cloths which are ritually impure by nature: Isaiah 64:5-7), but that in believing Christ we receive an imputed righteousness from Him. The corolary is stated by King David in Psalm 32:"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit."
David wrote of the sinner who receives grace in terms similar to Paul's, but we also see the last phrase tellling us that Blessed is the man...in whose spirit is no deceit. This generally would refer to those whose spirit has been made alive in Christ, and Paul refers to the "inner man" who is being renewed, desires to do God's will and agrees with His law, yet is thwarted by his carnal or fleshly nature. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:18-25
In this last passage Paul is referring to the same man that David is writing about in Psalm 32, the one who stands condemned by His actions, yet is redeemed by the shed blood of our Lord. My point here is this: It's good to not break God's law, but to live by it is impossible for us and God knew that we were unable to do so: 25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:25-27
The law, far from being abrogated by Jesus, was magnified by Him and presented as Holy, and its purpose in us is to keep us humble in the knowledge that we are unable to keep it and must rely on the Lord's righteousness and not our own. And more significantly, Jesus, and later Paul, teach us that performing works of the law, or good works in general doesn't establish a righteousness of our own in a meritorious sense as this is what we were created for, to do good and not evil.
Jesus, equal to the Father and like the Holy Spirit, and being the appointed judge of the world, was being accused of lawlessness by some of His contemporaries, but He had this to say:
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19
Stated plainly: The law will continue until the heavens roll up as a scroll, the stars fall from the sky, and the earth is burnt to a cinder. However: "5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust." 1 Timothy 1:5-11
The implication is that the law is always convicting us of sin, whether Christian or not. However, those who have believed Jesus have "passed out of Judgment" or been delivered from the condemnation of the law. The law applies to us as Christians, but the condemnation it brings doesn't, however I must qualify that statement by defining Christian as being one who has believed Christ and been born again by His Spirit. The Holy Spirit is, among other purposes, our keeper; He is the seal upon us that identifies us as belonging to God. This last statement provides room for discussion as well, but falls under the topic of our assurance of salvation and can be addressed elsewhere. Paul had a lot to say about our freedom and liberty in Christ, yet professing Christians still argue that we should observe the law. Here is the problem with that thinking.
The law is good, prohibiting evil works and perscribing good works, but James, the brother of our Lord warns us that the breaking of any part of the law makes one guilty under the law: 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”[b] also said, “Do not murder.”[c] Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment James 2:10-13
James gets this idea from the law itself:
26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ Deuteronomy 27:26 The law provided temporary atonement through animal sacrifice for the commiting of unintentional sin, but the punishment for intentional sin is typically death. Under grace, even intentional sin is covered by the blood of Christ (e.g. the thief upon the cross had obviously been guilty of intentional sin), though that doesn't imply that sin has no consequence to those under grace. Sin brings discipline to those who are adopted by God. Sound doctrine informs us that we are evil by nature and incapable of being entirely righteous, our best efforts being as impure as filthy rags (actually menstrual cloths which are ritually impure by nature: Isaiah 64:5-7), but that in believing Christ we receive an imputed righteousness from Him. The corolary is stated by King David in Psalm 32:"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit."
David wrote of the sinner who receives grace in terms similar to Paul's, but we also see the last phrase tellling us that Blessed is the man...in whose spirit is no deceit. This generally would refer to those whose spirit has been made alive in Christ, and Paul refers to the "inner man" who is being renewed, desires to do God's will and agrees with His law, yet is thwarted by his carnal or fleshly nature. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:18-25
In this last passage Paul is referring to the same man that David is writing about in Psalm 32, the one who stands condemned by His actions, yet is redeemed by the shed blood of our Lord. My point here is this: It's good to not break God's law, but to live by it is impossible for us and God knew that we were unable to do so: 25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:25-27
The law, far from being abrogated by Jesus, was magnified by Him and presented as Holy, and its purpose in us is to keep us humble in the knowledge that we are unable to keep it and must rely on the Lord's righteousness and not our own. And more significantly, Jesus, and later Paul, teach us that performing works of the law, or good works in general doesn't establish a righteousness of our own in a meritorious sense as this is what we were created for, to do good and not evil.
Michael V Pardo said:
There is another way of interpreting this.
1. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
The Law has not passed away because it has been destroyed but because it has been fulfilled. What it was meant to do has come to an end.
Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; (Gal 3:23-25).
2. "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
This contains a double condition.
For assuredly, I say to you,
[condition #1] till heaven and earth pass away,
[the action] one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law
[condition #2] till all is fulfilled.
In other words the law will not ever pass away (condition #1) unless it is fulfilled first (condition #2). Now Jesus says he has come to fulfil the Law – and he does.
So when Jesus fulfilled the law it became obsolete.
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Choir Loft
The eternal search for loopholes in the commandments of God goes on. We read in the gospels of the manipulations committed by the pharisees and wag our heads, while all the time witnessing the same actions going on all around us today.
Whether a man is saved by grace or by law means nothing when it comes to obeying in spirit. Salvation by grace has not and never will imply a license to sin. Yet many seek ways to prove it does.
The litany of heretical ideologies that have assaulted the church in recent years is only compounded by our increasingly hedonistic society. If it feels good, then do it even if it means stabbing your neighbor to death with a knife for the sake of some minor argument. The Word of God is simply that - a revelation from the Almighty as to how He acts and how He wants us to act. None of that implies living by impulse. As adults every one is called to wisely consider the consequences of our actions, especially with regard to a relationship in Christ.
And then there is the cross. The central core of the gospel is the cross. "Whoever wants to be my disciple," Jesus said, "must pick up his cross and follow me." [Luke 9:23] Nowhere does Jesus say doing your own thing is cool or acceptable in the eyes of God.
There are no loopholes in a loving relationship with Christ - or anybody else for that matter. Christian sin is adultery - making love with sin instead of God - a circumstance of which God does not approve. Our Father is a jealous god as well as a loving one and He will not permit sin in the life of the believer. We are called to the cross, to self-denial and to build each day on the commandment that God alone is our god and no others.
In this is the essence also of sanctification - the act of practicing submission, of following Jesus and embracing His will rather than our own. Salvation does not end at the altar of a church. If it is a true commitment, it only begins there. Stretching it out over the years of a lifetime is sanctification - a living sacrifice to Christ. It is a sweet aroma in the nostrils of God.
Why is there a question about any of this? If Jesus leads ought we not to follow, even if it pains us to do so even if we must deny some thing (or some one) who is dear to us? A Christian is one who bears his cross and follows Christ. Has the meaning of this word been forgotten too?
and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
Whether a man is saved by grace or by law means nothing when it comes to obeying in spirit. Salvation by grace has not and never will imply a license to sin. Yet many seek ways to prove it does.
The litany of heretical ideologies that have assaulted the church in recent years is only compounded by our increasingly hedonistic society. If it feels good, then do it even if it means stabbing your neighbor to death with a knife for the sake of some minor argument. The Word of God is simply that - a revelation from the Almighty as to how He acts and how He wants us to act. None of that implies living by impulse. As adults every one is called to wisely consider the consequences of our actions, especially with regard to a relationship in Christ.
And then there is the cross. The central core of the gospel is the cross. "Whoever wants to be my disciple," Jesus said, "must pick up his cross and follow me." [Luke 9:23] Nowhere does Jesus say doing your own thing is cool or acceptable in the eyes of God.
There are no loopholes in a loving relationship with Christ - or anybody else for that matter. Christian sin is adultery - making love with sin instead of God - a circumstance of which God does not approve. Our Father is a jealous god as well as a loving one and He will not permit sin in the life of the believer. We are called to the cross, to self-denial and to build each day on the commandment that God alone is our god and no others.
In this is the essence also of sanctification - the act of practicing submission, of following Jesus and embracing His will rather than our own. Salvation does not end at the altar of a church. If it is a true commitment, it only begins there. Stretching it out over the years of a lifetime is sanctification - a living sacrifice to Christ. It is a sweet aroma in the nostrils of God.
Why is there a question about any of this? If Jesus leads ought we not to follow, even if it pains us to do so even if we must deny some thing (or some one) who is dear to us? A Christian is one who bears his cross and follows Christ. Has the meaning of this word been forgotten too?
and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
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