Yeshua Says

daq · Jul 29, 2013

The full moon Passover of the Judaeans was at hand, and Yeshua goes up to Yerushalaim; and the Master finds in the temple those that sell oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money seated. And making a scourge of small cords, Yeshua drives them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and pours out the money of the money changers, and overthrows the tables; and unto them that sell doves, Yeshua says:

"Take these things hence; make not the house of my Father an house of merchandise!"

And his talmidim remembered that it is written in Tehillim 69 ~ "The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. When I wept, and chastened my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach. I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them."

And likewise as it is written in the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua ~ "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the full moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven recoiled like a scroll when it is unrolled; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the basileis-rulers of the earth, and the megistanes-grandees, and the chiliarchoi-commanders, and the wealthy, and the powerful, and every slave and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; and they say to the mountains and to the rocks; Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the orges-wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of the orges-wrath of them has come; and who shall be able to stand?"

And again as it is written in Yeshayah 34 ~ "Come near ye heathen; hear, and hearken, O ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it! For the indignation of YHWH is upon all the heathen, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled out as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of YHWH is satiate with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for there is a sacrifice to YHWH in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. And the r'em-unicorn wild bull-oxen shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. For it is the day of the vengeance unto YHWH, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion!"

Then answered the Judaeans and said unto him; "What sign do you show us seeing that you do these things?"
And Yeshua says unto them:

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I raise it up!"

Then said the Judaeans: "Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" But Yeshua spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised up out from the dead his talmidim remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Yeshua had spoken. Moreover as he was in Yerushalaim, in the Feast of the Passover, many believed into his name when they saw the miracles which he did. But Yeshua did not commit himself unto them, because that he knew all men, and because he had no need for any testimony concerning the anthropou-man-faced; for he knew what was in the anthropon-man:

"Behold, coming from the east, a swarm of locusts; and, lo, one brouchos: Gog the king!"

daq · Aug 2, 2013

Revelation 19:11-18 KJV
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man [oudeis-none-no one] knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Ezekiel 39:17-22 Restored Name KJV Ezekiel 39
39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Sovereign YHWH; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Sovereign YHWH.
39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am YHWH their Elohim from that day and forward.

Isaiah 63 Restored Name KJV Isaiah 63
63:1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
63:2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
63:6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of YHWH, and the praises of YHWH, according to all that YHWH hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Set-apart Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his Set-apart Spirit within him?
63:12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
63:13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
63:14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of YHWH caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
63:15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?
63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O YHWH, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
63:17 O YHWH, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
63:18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
63:19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.

Psalms 22:1-24 Restored Name KJV Psalm 22
22:1 My El, my El, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
22:2 O my Elohim, I cry in the daytime, [the third hour to the sixth hour of the crucifixion] but thou hearest not; and in the night season, [the sixth hour to the ninth hour of the crucifixion] and am not silent.
22:3 But thou art set-apart, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
22:8 He trusted on YHWH that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my El from my mother's belly.
22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not thou far from me, O YHWH: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
22:23 Ye that fear YHWH, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

There is the Life which is the Light of men. The Light is the Truth which gives light to every man that enters into the world.

Yeshua says; "I am Light having entered into the world, so that all who are believing into me shall not remain in the darkness."

What therefore would happen if the light of every man should be slain? Therefore we judge thusly: that if one died for all, then all died. And it is not the Son who makes his enemies his footstool according to the Scripture but rather the Father, who says to the Son through king David, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

Psalms 110:1-6 Restored Name KJV Psalm 110
110:1 YHWH said unto my Master, [HSN#113 'adon] Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
110:2 YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
110:4 YHWH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
110:5 YHWH [HSN#136 'Adonay] at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

Glory to the Father who has trodden the grapes of wrath at the wine press of Gath-shemeni!

Shalom-Peace in Yeshua! He Lives!

daq · Aug 7, 2013

Yochanan the Immerser, having heard in the patmos-prison of Herod concerning the works of the Anointed One, sent through his talmidim, saying to Yeshua; Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Yeshua answers and says to them; Go and revelate-apangello unto Yochanan again those things which you do hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the Gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me!

And as the talmidim of Yochanan departed, Yeshua commenced a discourse to the multitudes concerning Yochanan the Immerser, saying, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went you all out for to see? A man clothed in malakos raiment? Behold, those of malakos robes are in the houses of kings. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send My malak before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen an elder-meizon than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is elder-meizon than he. And from the (ancient) days of Yochanan the Immerser until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent seize it by force, (were not seven souls purchased at the temple for three farthings? Yet not a one falls into the earth without the Father knowing). For all the prophets and Torah prophesied until Yochanan; and if you will receive it, this is Eliyahu, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And this is the full Scripture from Malaki 3:1 ~ Behold, I send My malak before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee, (Yochanan) and ha-'Adon-Master, (Yeshua) whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his heykal, even the Malak of haBrit-Covenant, (Yeshua) whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the YHWH Tsabaoth! (the Father).

Malak #1 ~ Yochanan the Immerser-Forerunner
Malak #2 ~ Yeshua haAdon Malak haBrit-Covenant

Therefore we place the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua as the final book of Tanak because Yochanan haQowre' Eliyahu was the eldest and greatest of all the prophets among those having been born of a woman. Yochanan received the Revelation of Yeshua from Yeshua himself who received it from the Father during his own time of trial in the wilderness with the wild beasts. Yochanan wrote it down while in the Patmos-Prison of Herod just before he was beheaded for the Word of Elohim.

Retrobyter · Aug 16, 2013

Shabbat shalom, daq.

daq said:
Yochanan the Immerser, having heard in the patmos-prison of Herod concerning the works of the Anointed One, sent through his talmidim, saying to Yeshua; Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Yeshua answers and says to them; Go and revelate-apangello unto Yochanan again those things which you do hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the Gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me!

And as the talmidim of Yochanan departed, Yeshua commenced a discourse to the multitudes concerning Yochanan the Immerser, saying, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went you all out for to see? A man clothed in malakos raiment? Behold, those of malakos robes are in the houses of kings. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send My malak before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen an elder-meizon than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is elder-meizon than he. And from the (ancient) days of Yochanan the Immerser until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent seize it by force, (were not seven souls purchased at the temple for three farthings? Yet not a one falls into the earth without the Father knowing). For all the prophets and Torah prophesied until Yochanan; and if you will receive it, this is Eliyahu, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And this is the full Scripture from Malaki 3:1 ~ Behold, I send My malak before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee, (Yochanan) and ha-'Adon-Master, (Yeshua) whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his heykal, even the Malak of haBrit-Covenant, (Yeshua) whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the YHWH Tsabaoth! (the Father).

Malak #1 ~ Yochanan the Immerser-Forerunner
Malak #2 ~ Yeshua haAdon Malak haBrit-Covenant

Therefore we place the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua as the final book of Tanak because Yochanan haQowre' Eliyahu was the eldest and greatest of all the prophets among those having been born of a woman. Yochanan received the Revelation of Yeshua from Yeshua himself who received it from the Father during his own time of trial in the wilderness with the wild beasts. Yochanan wrote it down while in the Patmos-Prison of Herod just before he was beheaded for the Word of Elohim.

Yochanan the Immerser did not go to Patmos. He was in desmooteerion-prison! Wrong Yochanan.

daq · Aug 21, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shabbat shalom, daq.

Yochanan the Immerser did not go to Patmos. He was in desmooteerion-prison! Wrong Yochanan.

And this is true simply because you as a man from your own imagination say it is so? Why should any talmid of Master Yeshua accept the testimony of a carnal man who openly rejects the Testimony of Yeshua?

Original Strong's Ref. #3187
Romanized meizon
Pronounced mide'-zone
irregular comparative of GSN3173; larger (literally or figuratively, specifically in age):
KJV--elder, greater(-est), more.

Matthew 11:7-15 KJV
7. And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater [GSN#3187 meizon] than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Yochanan the Immerser is stated not only to be "the greatest" but "the eldest" of them having been born of women. And therefore from the ANCIENT DAYS of Yochanan the Immerser until this time where Messiah Yeshua spoke the words the kingdom of heaven suffered violence, and the violent took it by force: For all the prophets and the law prophesied until Yochanan. And if you would only receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear! Yochanan is therefore the greater and the elder of all the prophets which came after Moshe. If you truly believe the statements of the Master Yeshua concerning Yochanan then where are the writings of Yochanan? YOU HAVE NONE, you deny the Word-Doctrine of the Master Yeshua whom the Father spoke through, and your paradigm is a delusion.

The Book of the Revelation of Yeshua from the opening verse is "a revelation" of Yeshua Christou which was given to him of God to shew unto his servants that which must needs come to pass quickly, shortly, with speed. Do you honestly believe that Yeshua needed anymore revelation from the Father AFTER he was sat down at the right hand of God? Should we even consider it possible that the Master would need to receive any revelation AFTER he was crucified, glorified, resurrected, and received up in a cloud into heaven? Paul states likewise that Yeshua "emptied himself" ("made himself void") and humbled himself while he was in the physical body being found, (having become) a man. That is the only good and acceptable time when the Master might have received a revelation from the Father, to show unto his servants, through his messenger Yochanan Eliyahu. Yochanan was in prison, (symbolically called Patmos) and the Master came to him in Spirit to deliver what the Father had given him for his people. This all occurs in "the Lord's Day" which is one year, the only acceptable year:

Luke 4:13-21 KJV
13. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
14. And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

At this point Yeshua had already received the Revelation and delivered it to Yochanan in prison:

Matthew 4:11-17 KJV
11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
12. Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13. And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16. The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:13-15 KJV
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

And Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser and forerunner of Messiah wrote it all down before he was beheaded. Likewise Sha'ul was not so "holy" or "special" that he sat down with Yeshua "in person" to hear, (and especially not "audibly") and learn the Gospel. Rather he sat down with "Apokalupsis Yeshua Christou", the Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which was already written by the hand of Yochanan the Immerser and already in limited circulation, (at Damascus-Qumran) and likely Sha'ul would have also had the rest of the Torah-Tanak-Writings-Prophets, (or at the very least he had Torah memorized) and he then sat down with the Master, in Spirit, and by the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua the Master then revealed to him the Gospel, and he walked it out in his own life, experiences, and revelations in Messiah. The Revelation of Yeshua is the true walk of every disciple of Yeshua. When Sha'ul began to understand this, and the fact that the Revelation of Yeshua reveals the fulfilling of Yom Kippur, the Great Day of Atonement, Sha'ul then came to understand that Yeshua had already fulfilled all things necessary, (concerning his portion of Yom Kippur) at the Cross of Golgotha Moriah-Olivet, (not 70AD). What remains is for each of his talmidim-disciples to take up his or her own cross, each in his or her own appointed times, and follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.

Galatians 1:11-17
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it from a man, neither was I taught it, but through the Revelation of Yeshua Christou.
13. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the religion of the Jews, how that beyond measure I persecuted the congregation of God, and wasted it:
14. And profited in the religion of the Jews above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

And if you will receive it, the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua is the mysterious and elusive "Q" source document that the scholars have been forever searching for. It is the key that unlocks the entire Gospel of Yeshua to both the nation of the Jews and to the nations of the Gentiles, which is why it is full of O/T-Torah-Tanak prophetic passage references. Likewise it is the "water immersion into the Word" of Yochanan the Immerser because it was given him from the Master while Yochanan was in the "Patmos-prison" of king Herod. The so-called modern scholars have no clue with whom they deal when they imagine that there must have been what they call an "infancy Gospel" supposing that their "infancy Gospel" would have been nothing more than a collection of the sayings of Yeshua, like the Gospel of Thomas, or like the Didache, or the Two Ways, or some primitive compilation of like material from which the three Synoptic Gospels would have been developed and derived. All four of the Gospel accounts derive from the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua, which is the water immersion of Yochanan the Immerser, (and without the water immersions one does not receive the Spirit immersion: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God") and from the bringing to remembrance through the Holy Spirit all things which were spoken unto the disciples while the Master was with them before the Cross. The modern scholars will never see such things, though it is right in front of them, so long as they continue to walk according to the flesh like their predecessors.

Colossians 4:16 KJV
16. And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

WHERE is "the Epistle of Laodicea" which Paulos mentions to the Colossians?

Revelation 3:14 KJV
14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

"But I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it from a man, neither was I taught it, except through the Revelation of Yeshua Christou"

Retrobyter · Aug 22, 2013

Shalom, daq.

daq said:
And this is true simply because you as a man from your own imagination say it is so? Why should any talmid of Master Yeshua accept the testimony of a carnal man who openly rejects the Testimony of Yeshua?

Original Strong's Ref. #3187
Romanized meizon
Pronounced mide'-zone
irregular comparative of GSN3173; larger (literally or figuratively, specifically in age):
KJV--elder, greater(-est), more.

Matthew 11:7-15 KJV
7. And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater [GSN#3187 meizon] than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Yochanan the Immerser is stated not only to be "the greatest" but "the eldest" of them having been born of women. And therefore from the ANCIENT DAYS of Yochanan the Immerser until this time where Messiah Yeshua spoke the words the kingdom of heaven suffered violence, and the violent took it by force: For all the prophets and the law prophesied until Yochanan. And if you would only receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear! Yochanan is therefore the greater and the elder of all the prophets which came after Moshe. If you truly believe the statements of the Master Yeshua concerning Yochanan then where are the writings of Yochanan? YOU HAVE NONE, you deny the Word-Doctrine of the Master Yeshua whom the Father spoke through, and your paradigm is a delusion.

The Book of the Revelation of Yeshua from the opening verse is "a revelation" of Yeshua Christou which was given to him of God to shew unto his servants that which must needs come to pass quickly, shortly, with speed. Do you honestly believe that Yeshua needed anymore revelation from the Father AFTER he was sat down at the right hand of God? Should we even consider it possible that the Master would need to receive any revelation AFTER he was crucified, glorified, resurrected, and received up in a cloud into heaven? Paul states likewise that Yeshua "emptied himself" ("made himself void") and humbled himself while he was in the physical body being found, (having become) a man. That is the only good and acceptable time when the Master might have received a revelation from the Father, to show unto his servants, through his messenger Yochanan Eliyahu. Yochanan was in prison, (symbolically called Patmos) and the Master came to him in Spirit to deliver what the Father had given him for his people. This all occurs in "the Lord's Day" which is one year, the only acceptable year:

Luke 4:13-21 KJV
13. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
14. And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

At this point Yeshua had already received the Revelation and delivered it to Yochanan in prison:

Matthew 4:11-17 KJV
11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
12. Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13. And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15. The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16. The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:13-15 KJV
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

And Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser and forerunner of Messiah wrote it all down before he was beheaded. Likewise Sha'ul was not so "holy" or "special" that he sat down with Yeshua "in person" to hear, (and especially not "audibly") and learn the Gospel. Rather he sat down with "Apokalupsis Yeshua Christou", the Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which was already written by the hand of Yochanan the Immerser and already in limited circulation, (at Damascus-Qumran) and likely Sha'ul would have also had the rest of the Torah-Tanak-Writings-Prophets, (or at the very least he had Torah memorized) and he then sat down with the Master, in Spirit, and by the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua the Master then revealed to him the Gospel, and he walked it out in his own life, experiences, and revelations in Messiah. The Revelation of Yeshua is the true walk of every disciple of Yeshua. When Sha'ul began to understand this, and the fact that the Revelation of Yeshua reveals the fulfilling of Yom Kippur, the Great Day of Atonement, Sha'ul then came to understand that Yeshua had already fulfilled all things necessary, (concerning his portion of Yom Kippur) at the Cross of Golgotha Moriah-Olivet, (not 70AD). What remains is for each of his talmidim-disciples to take up his or her own cross, each in his or her own appointed times, and follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.

Galatians 1:11-17
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it from a man, neither was I taught it, but through the Revelation of Yeshua Christou.
13. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the religion of the Jews, how that beyond measure I persecuted the congregation of God, and wasted it:
14. And profited in the religion of the Jews above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

And if you will receive it, the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua is the mysterious and elusive "Q" source document that the scholars have been forever searching for. It is the key that unlocks the entire Gospel of Yeshua to both the nation of the Jews and to the nations of the Gentiles, which is why it is full of O/T-Torah-Tanak prophetic passage references. Likewise it is the "water immersion into the Word" of Yochanan the Immerser because it was given him from the Master while Yochanan was in the "Patmos-prison" of king Herod. The so-called modern scholars have no clue with whom they deal when they imagine that there must have been what they call an "infancy Gospel" supposing that their "infancy Gospel" would have been nothing more than a collection of the sayings of Yeshua, like the Gospel of Thomas, or like the Didache, or the Two Ways, or some primitive compilation of like material from which the three Synoptic Gospels would have been developed and derived. All four of the Gospel accounts derive from the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua, which is the water immersion of Yochanan the Immerser, (and without the water immersions one does not receive the Spirit immersion: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God") and from the bringing to remembrance through the Holy Spirit all things which were spoken unto the disciples while the Master was with them before the Cross. The modern scholars will never see such things, though it is right in front of them, so long as they continue to walk according to the flesh like their predecessors.

Colossians 4:16 KJV
16. And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

WHERE is "the Epistle of Laodicea" which Paulos mentions to the Colossians?

Revelation 3:14 KJV
14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

"But I certify you, brethren, that the Gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it from a man, neither was I taught it, except through the Revelation of Yeshua Christou"

Fooey. You are off in a little dream world of your own making. You've constructed this IMPOSSIBLE house of cards from the way you BADLY interpret all these GOOD passages of Scripture and are LOCKED INTO YOUR OWN IMAGINATIONS SO DEEPLY that you couldn't find your way out of the maze if you tried! Why should any talmiyd of Adoniy Yeshua` haMashiach accept the imagination of a delusional man who twists the Scripture by pairing passages arbitrarily together because they use similar words or use words that he counts as special "key" words?

You are so consumed by the allegorical interpretations of these passages that you can't recognize the simple truths within the passages when they're pointed out to you directly! Let me make this simple again. There is MORE THAN ONE Yochanan (John) in Scripture! And you are obviously referring to Matthew 11:11:

Matthew 11:11
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater (Greek: meizoon, from megas, meaning "bigger") than he.
KJV

Using Strong's definition, I can see where you might get such an idea that Yochanan the Immerser was the OLDEST, but it's not right:

NT:3187 meizoon (mide'-zone); irregular comparative of NT:3173; larger (literally or figuratively, specifically in age):
KJV - elder, greater (-est), more.

NT:3173 megas (meg'-as); [including the prolonged forms, feminine megalee, plural megaloi, etc.; compare also NT:3176, NT:3187]; big (literally or figuratively, in a very wide application):
KJV - (+fear) exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, X to years.

NT:3176 megistos (meg'-is-tos); superlative of NT:3173; greatest or very great:
KJV - exceeding great.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The base word is "megas" meaning "big." The comparative word based on "megas" is "meizoon" meaning "bigger." The superlative word based on "megas" is "megistos" meaning "biggest."

Doing an Englishman's Concordance search on "3187," one gets 33 matches in the NT, a couple of which are these:

John 13:16
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
KJV

John 15:20
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
KJV

Is it impossible therefore to have a slave that is older than the master of that slave?

1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
KJV

I suppose that it's possible that the oldest of these three is charity or love, but is that the comparison being made?

Luke 22:27
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
KJV

Is it always true that the one being served is older than the server?

Luke 12:18
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
KJV

Certainly one would not pull down the younger barn to build an older one, right?

The key to this comparative word is what is being talked about! When one is talking about "age" it's "older," and the ONLY such occurrence is found in Romans 9:12. When it is talking about "sound" it means "louder"; when it is talking about "nobility" it means "nobler," etc. When the word is talking about usability for God as a prophet and being powerful through God, it is rightly translated as "greater."

Yochanan the Immerser was cut off in his prime by the evil Idumean, Herod Antipater ("Antipas") the Tetrarch. Yeshua` WAS compassed about by "great bulls of Bashan" - powerful soldiers that Herod employed from his native country to be his soldiers and body guards - and they were among those who tortured Yeshua` that night before He was crucified.

HOWEVER, it was NOT Yochanan the Immerser who wrote Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou. It was the APOSTLE Yochanan, the young man who leaned back upon Yeshua`s chest at supper and who was the younger brother of Ya`aqov (James), one of the inner circle of three: Shim`own Kefa ("Cephas"), Ya`aqov, and YOCHANAN (Simon Peter, James, and JOHN).

If you're going to teach the Word to others, you should know something so basic!

daq · Aug 22, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

Fooey. You are off in a little dream world of your own making. You've constructed this IMPOSSIBLE house of cards from the way you BADLY interpret all these GOOD passages of Scripture and are LOCKED INTO YOUR OWN IMAGINATIONS SO DEEPLY that you couldn't find your way out of the maze if you tried! Why should any talmiyd of Adoniy Yeshua` haMashiach accept the imagination of a delusional man who twists the Scripture by pairing passages arbitrarily together because they use similar words or use words that he counts as special "key" words?

You are so consumed by the allegorical interpretations of these passages that you can't recognize the simple truths within the passages when they're pointed out to you directly! Let me make this simple again. There is MORE THAN ONE Yochanan (John) in Scripture! And you are obviously referring to Matthew 11:11:

Matthew 11:11
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater (Greek: meizoon, from megas, meaning "bigger") than he.
KJV

Using Strong's definition, I can see where you might get such an idea that Yochanan the Immerser was the OLDEST, but it's not right:

NT:3187 meizoon (mide'-zone); irregular comparative of NT:3173; larger (literally or figuratively, specifically in age):
KJV - elder, greater (-est), more.

NT:3173 megas (meg'-as); [including the prolonged forms, feminine megalee, plural megaloi, etc.; compare also NT:3176, NT:3187]; big (literally or figuratively, in a very wide application):
KJV - (+fear) exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, X to years.

NT:3176 megistos (meg'-is-tos); superlative of NT:3173; greatest or very great:
KJV - exceeding great.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The base word is "megas" meaning "big." The comparative word based on "megas" is "meizoon" meaning "bigger." The superlative word based on "megas" is "megistos" meaning "biggest."

Doing an Englishman's Concordance search on "3187," one gets 33 matches in the NT, a couple of which are these:

John 13:16
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
KJV

John 15:20
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
KJV

Is it impossible therefore to have a slave that is older than the master of that slave?

1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
KJV

I suppose that it's possible that the oldest of these three is charity or love, but is that the comparison being made?

Luke 22:27
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
KJV

Is it always true that the one being served is older than the server?

Luke 12:18
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
KJV

Certainly one would not pull down the younger barn to build an older one, right?

The key to this comparative word is what is being talked about! When one is talking about "age" it's "older," and the ONLY such occurrence is found in Romans 9:12. When it is talking about "sound" it means "louder"; when it is talking about "nobility" it means "nobler," etc. When the word is talking about usability for God as a prophet and being powerful through God, it is rightly translated as "greater."

Yochanan the Immerser was cut off in his prime by the evil Idumean, Herod Antipater ("Antipas") the Tetrarch. Yeshua` WAS compassed about by "great bulls of Bashan" - powerful soldiers that Herod employed from his native country to be his soldiers and body guards - and they were among those who tortured Yeshua` that night before He was crucified.

HOWEVER, it was NOT Yochanan the Immerser who wrote Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou. It was the APOSTLE Yochanan, the young man who leaned back upon Yeshua`s chest at supper and who was the younger brother of Ya`aqov (James), one of the inner circle of three: Shim`own Kefa ("Cephas"), Ya`aqov, and YOCHANAN (Simon Peter, James, and JOHN).

If you're going to teach the Word to others, you should know something so basic!

Do you also, like several others here, not believe that Yeshua existed pre-incarnate? Otherwise I clearly stated that "meizon" means BOTH but you ignore the fact that SPECIFICALLY and therefore FIRSTLY it pertains to AGE. You ignore what I said so that you may once again falsely accuse me of saying things I did not say. Yochanan the Immerser was a mashiyach-anointed-one, from birth, having the Spirit of Eliyahu upon him, (though he himself was not Eliyahu). However, the Master does not suggest that Yochanan the Immerser is elder than himself because the Master himself is indeed elder than Yochanan. In addition even if only "greater" is implied the meaning still holds to the fact that Yochanan is "greater" than all those born of women who came before him. He is still therefore the "greatest" ("megas" as you said) of all the prophets yet YOU have no writings to verify this clear emphatic statement from Yeshua. In addition to these things you have dwelt on one insignificant side issue so as to point your finger at myself rather than answer to all of the SCRIPTURE which was posted. Please start your own thread and go teach your physical fantasy thousand-year-Reich kingdom of flesh somewhere else. We already know that we do not agree and you are therefore only here to harass and disrupt this thread as if you have not already done so enough times in so many other threads.

Retrobyter · Aug 22, 2013

Shalom, daq.

daq said:
Do you also, like several others here, not believe that Yeshua existed pre-incarnate? Otherwise I clearly stated that "meizon" means BOTH but you ignore the fact that SPECIFICALLY and therefore FIRSTLY it pertains to AGE. You ignore what I said so that you may once again falsely accuse me of saying things I did not say. Yochanan the Immerser was a mashiyach-anointed-one, from birth, having the Spirit of Eliyahu upon him, (though he himself was not Eliyahu). However, the Master does not suggest that Yochanan the Immerser is elder than himself because the Master himself is indeed elder than Yochanan. In addition even if only "greater" is implied the meaning still holds to the fact that Yochanan is "greater" than all those born of women who came before him. He is still therefore the "greatest" ("megas" as you said) of all the prophets yet YOU have no writings to verify this clear emphatic statement from Yeshua. In addition to these things you have dwelt on one insignificant side issue so as to point your finger at myself rather than answer to all of the SCRIPTURE which was posted. Please start your own thread and go teach your physical fantasy thousand-year-Reich kingdom of flesh somewhere else. We already know that we do not agree and you are therefore only here to harass and disrupt this thread as if you have not already done so enough times in so many other threads.

You can't even read what I just wrote! It is "megistos" that is the superlative "biggest" or "greatest," not "megas!" I don't NEED any writings to verify this clear emphatic statement from Yeshua` because it is NOT about AGE! But, hey. Believe what you want to believe; teach what you want to teach; deceive whom you may. I'm done.

daq · Aug 23, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

You can't even read what I just wrote! It is "megistos" that is the superlative "biggest" or "greatest," not "megas!" I don't NEED any writings to verify this clear emphatic statement from Yeshua` because it is NOT about AGE! But, hey. Believe what you want to believe; teach what you want to teach; deceive whom you may. I'm done.

WHO is the one that cannot read?

Matthew 11:11 TUA
11. Amen lego humin, ouk egegertai en gennetois gunaikon meizon Ioannou tou Baptistou. Ho de mikroteros en te basileiaton ouranon meizon autou estin.

WHERE do you see "megas" or "megistos" anywhere in the Matthew 11:11 text? It says "MEIZON"! :lol:

Matthew 11:11
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen one elder than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is elder than he.

And WHO is least in the kingdom of heaven at the time of this statement? Do you presume it is yourself as most do? :lol:

Matthew 8:19-20
19. And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.
20. And Yeshua saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Therefore Yeshua is testifying in Matthew 11:11 that he himself is the greater-elder between himself and John the Immerser even though Yochanan was physically born before he was. The same things he says also of the Temple, Yonah, and Solomon immediately following in the very next chapter. And meizon is employed in Matthew 12:6 because it leads into the statement concerning the Shabbat from THE BEGINNING which therefore shows that he speaks of AGE when he states that he is Master of Shabbat:

Matthew 12:6-8
6. But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater-elder-meizon than the temple.
7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

However, in the very same chapter the comparison is made between the Son of man, Yonah the prophet, and Solomon, yet a different word is used which implies quantity and quality except it is NEITHER of the two words which you have interjected into the conversation. The Son of man is "pleion" which is generally rendered the same, ("greater") but implies that Yeshua is of exceedingly more excellent-"greater" quality:

Matthew 12:41-42
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and, behold, a greater [GSN#4119 pleion] than Jonah is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater [GSN#4119 pleion] than Solomon is here.

Original Strong's Ref. #4119
Romanized pleion
Pronounced pli-own
neuter pleion {pli'-on}; or pleon {pleh'-on}; comparative of GSN4183; more in quantity, number, or quality; also (in plural) the major portion:
KJV--X above, + exceed, more excellent, further, (very) great(-er), long(-er), (very) many, greater (more) part, + yet but.

Yeshua does not need to state that he is "elder" than Yonah because he already did so when he said the same of Yochanan the Immerser. It is likely that Simon bar-Yonah, son of Yochanan, understood this statement concerning Yonah in relationship to what Yeshua had said of Yochanan in the discourse of the previous chapter; yet if not, then Simon surely understood it upon his ultimate conversion. Yonah is the "young man of the prophets" whom Elisha` sent to anoint Yehu as king of Yisrael; yet it was Eliyahu that was commanded to do this. Therefore Eliyahu is the Spirit of the prophets which rested upon Yonah from a young man, (because the Scripture cannot be broken). The same Spirit of Eliyahu is probably that which was upon Moshe and then also placed upon the seventy-two elders; likewise mashiyach Yochanan haQowre' Eliyahu carried the same anointing from birth, the anointing of Eliyahu just as the Master says, (if one will receive it). Your extra words are once again out of context and create intentional confusion.

daq · Aug 29, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

Fooey. You are off in a little dream world of your own making. You've constructed this IMPOSSIBLE house of cards from the way you BADLY interpret all these GOOD passages of Scripture and are LOCKED INTO YOUR OWN IMAGINATIONS SO DEEPLY that you couldn't find your way out of the maze if you tried! Why should any talmiyd of Adoniy Yeshua` haMashiach accept the imagination of a delusional man who twists the Scripture by pairing passages arbitrarily together because they use similar words or use words that he counts as special "key" words?

You are so consumed by the allegorical interpretations of these passages that you can't recognize the simple truths within the passages when they're pointed out to you directly! Let me make this simple again. There is MORE THAN ONE Yochanan (John) in Scripture! And you are obviously referring to Matthew 11:11:

*snip*

HOWEVER, it was NOT Yochanan the Immerser who wrote Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou. It was the APOSTLE Yochanan, the young man who leaned back upon Yeshua`s chest at supper and who was the younger brother of Ya`aqov (James), one of the inner circle of three: Shim`own Kefa ("Cephas"), Ya`aqov, and YOCHANAN (Simon Peter, James, and JOHN).

If you're going to teach the Word to others, you should know something so basic!

I was also referring to the following which was clearly underlined in Post#45 above but to which you likewise did not respond:

Matthew 11:13 TUA
13. Pantes gar hoi profetai kai ho nomos heos Ioannoue profeteusan.

Matthew 11:13 YLT
13. for all the prophets and the law till John did prophesy,

Matthew 11:13 ASV
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:13 RSV
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John;

Matthew 11:13-15 KJV
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Immediately following the ministry of Yochanan the Immerser came Moshiya`-Messias Yeshua:

John 5:33-46 KJV
33. Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34. But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35. He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36. But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41. I receive not honour from men.
42. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Yochanan ha-Qowre' mashiyach Eliyahu is the last prophet before Yeshua himself who was "that Prophet like unto Moshe" . . .

Yeshayah 45:1-13
1. Thus saith YHWH to his mashiyach, to Kowresh, [Yochanan ha-Qowre' is "the Cryer" in the wilderness: Isaiah 40:3, "qowl qowre' - the voice of the Cryer", John 1:22-23] whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2. I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3. And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, [the Revelation of Yeshua] that thou mayest know that I am YHWH, Elohey of Yisra'el, ha-Qowre' [in-through-by] the name of you [bshimka].
4. For the sake of Yacob my servant, and Yisra'el mine elect, I have even called [qara'-qowre'] thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5. I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no Elohim without me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6. That they may know from the rising sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me, I am YHWH, there is none else.
Re: No continuing city? Post#43

Isaiah 40:3 KJV
3. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isaiah 40:3 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
3. Qowl qowre' bamidbar: Panuw derek YHWH. Yashruwba`rabah mcilah le-'Eloheynuw.{*}

Isaiah 45:3 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
3. Wnatatiy lka 'owtsrowt choshek, uwmaTmuneymictariym, lma`an teda` kiy- 'niy YHWH, ha-Qowre' bshimka, 'Elohey Yisra'el.

John 1:21-23 OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)
21 And they asked Yochanan, What, then? Are you Eliyahu HaNavi? And Yochanan says, I am not. Are you the Navi? (DEVARIM 18:15,18) And he answered, Lo (No).
22 They said then to him, Mi atah? That we may give a teshuvah (answer) to the ones who sent us. What do you say about yourself?
23 Yochanan said, I am a KOL KOREY BAMIDBAR, make straight the DERECH HASHEM! (YESHAYAH 40:3, TARGUM HASHIVIM), as Yeshayah HaNavi said.
http://biblehub.com/ojb/john/1.htm

Yochanan himself claims to be Qowl Qowre' bamidbar or Kol Korey bamidbar ~ "The Cryer in the wilderness"
Ha-Qowre' is idiomatic from Yeshayah 45:3 ~ "The One Calling you the Cryer" (in the wilderness of Damascus-Qumran).

Retrobyter · Aug 30, 2013

Shalom, daq.

Wow. That's befuddled. So, now Cyrus of Persia is John the Baptist?!

JUST LOOK AT THE TEXTS! (I'm using the NIV and the CJB because they are versions that put the thoughts into English in the best flow):

Isaiah 44:24-45:7
24 "This is what the Lord says — your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:

I am the Lord,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself,
25 who foils the signs of false prophets
and makes fools of diviners,
who overthrows the learning of the wise
and turns it into nonsense,
26 who carries out the words of his servants
and fulfills the predictions of his messengers,
who says of Jerusalem, 'It shall be inhabited,'
of the towns of Judah, 'They shall be built,'
and of their ruins, 'I will restore them,'
27 who says to the watery deep, 'Be dry,
and I will dry up your streams,'
28 who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd
and will accomplish all that I please;
he will say of Jerusalem, "Let it be rebuilt,"
and of the temple, "Let its foundations be laid." '

45:1 "This is what the Lord says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him
and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him
so that gates will not be shut:
2 I will go before you
and will level the mountains;
I will break down gates of bronze
and cut through bars of iron.
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the Lord,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name.
4 For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIV

Isa 44:24-45:7
24 Here is what Adonai says, your Redeemer,
he who formed you in the womb:

“I am Adonai, who makes all things,
who stretched out the heavens all alone,
who spread out the earth all by myself.
25 I frustrate false prophets and their omens,
I make fools of diviners,
I drive back the sages
and make their wisdom look silly.
26 I confirm my servants’ prophecies
and make my messengers’ plans succeed.
I say of Yerushalayim: ‘She will be lived in,’
of the cities of Y’hudah, ‘They will be rebuilt;
I will restore their ruins.’
27 I say to the deep sea, ‘Dry up!
I will make your streams run dry.’
28 I say of Koresh, ‘He is my shepherd,
he will do everything I want.
He will say of Yerushalayim,
“You will be rebuilt,”
and of the temple,“Your foundation will be laid.”’”

45:1 Thus says Adonai to Koresh, his anointed,
whose right hand he has grasped,
so that he subdues nations before him
and strips kings of their robes,
so that doors open in front of him,
and no gates are barred:
2 “I will go ahead of you,
levelling the hills,
shattering the bronze gates,
smashing the iron bars.
3 I will give you treasures
hoarded in the dark,
secret riches hidden away,
so that you will know that I, Adonai,
calling you by your name,
am the God of Isra’el.
4 It is for the sake of Ya‘akov my servant,
yes, for Isra’el my elect,
that I call you by your name
and give you a title, although you don’t know me.
5 I am Adonai; there is no other;
besides me there is no God.
I am arming you, although you don’t know me,
6 so that those from the east and those from the west
will know that there is none besides me —
I am Adonai; there is no other.
7 I form light, I create darkness;
I make well-being, I create woe;
I, Adonai, do all these things.
CJB

Nope. Try again.

daq · Aug 31, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

Wow. That's befuddled. So, now Cyrus of Persia is John the Baptist?!

Daniel 10:1
1. In the third year of Kowresh melek Parac-Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was established-truth, and the tsaba' was gadol: and he understood the matter, and had understanding of the mar'eh-mirror-vision.

Daniel 8:15-16
15. And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the chazown-vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood opposing me like the mar'eh-mirror-image of a geber-mighty one.
16. And I heard the voice of 'Adam between the banks of Uwlay, which called, and said, Gabriy'el, make this man to understand the mar'eh-mirror-vision!

Daniel 10:13-21
13. And Sar of the kingdom of Parac-Persia stood opposing me twenty and one yom: and, behold, Miyka'el, 'Echad haSariym haRi'shoniym, came for to surround-succor me; and I jutted over from there beside the melekiym-kings of Parac-Persia.
14. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for the days.
15. And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
16. And, behold, one like the dmuwth-similitude of the sons of 'Adam touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O 'Adoniy, by the mirror-vision my hinges are turned against me, and I have retained no power.
17. For how can the servant of this, 'Adoniy, speak with this, 'Adoniy? for as for me, straightway there remaineth no power in me, neither is there breath left in me.
18. Then there came again, and touched me; one like the mirror-image of 'Adam, and he strengthened me,
19. And said, O 'iysh-man, greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let 'Adoniy speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
20. Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with Sar Parac: and in my going forth, behold, Sar Yavan comes.
21. But I will shew thee that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is not one strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Miyka'el, Sar-Prince of you.

Both Miyka'el and Gabriy'el were therefore instrumental in bringing about the decree of Kowresh-Koresh:

Ezra 1:1-2
1. Now in the first year of Kowresh melek Parac-Persia, that the word of YHWH by the mouth of Yirmyah might be fulfilled, YHWH stirred up the spirit of Koresh melek Parac-Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
2. Thus saith Koresh melek Parac-Persia; YHWH, Elohim of heaven, hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Yerushalaim, which is in Yehudah.

In Isaiah 45:1 Kowresh is called "mashiyach" ("anointed one") because he was anointed just as was Yochanan the Immerser:

Luke 1:11-20 KJV
11. And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
12. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, [the mashiyach-anointing of Eliyahu] to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
18. And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19. And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
20. And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Yochanan ha-Qowre' Eliyahu does not claim to be Kowresh but rather Kol Korey or Qowl Qowre', "the voice of the Cryer" in the wilderness; you have therefore, once again, put words to my account which I have neither spoken nor written. From where I stand it appears you may have set yourself aflame with fire of Gehenna by your own doing, with your own tongue of the flesh which speaks according to your eyes and mind of the flesh; and yet the natural carnal man is not even capable of perceiving the depravity and calamity of his own condition: And who do you suppose will supply the "fatted calf" when you finally realize the error of your ways, O prodigal? Likewise in the same appointment you will surely give up that goat speaking like a dragon. :lol:

Retrobyter · Sep 1, 2013

Shalom, daq.

Yes,.... but that is not what you have in Dani'el 10:1 nor in Ezra 1:1-2! Those are indeed references to the ruler of Persia who went by the name of Koresh or Cyrus! And, it was HE who was God's instrument in bringing the Jews back to Erets-Isra'el and encouraging them to rebuild the Temple! Don't make those verses into something they're not!

daq · Sep 8, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

Yes,.... but that is not what you have in Dani'el 10:1 nor in Ezra 1:1-2! Those are indeed references to the ruler of Persia who went by the name of Koresh or Cyrus! And, it was HE who was God's instrument in bringing the Jews back to Erets-Isra'el and encouraging them to rebuild the Temple! Don't make those verses into something they're not!

You are the one adding to the Scripture when you heed the voices of your dispensationalist fathers and attribute the Isaiah 44 and 45 passages to "Cyrus" king of Persia. The authors of both Chronicles and Ezra do not attribute the decree of Cyrus to the prophecy in Isaiah but rather to Jeremiah. Also both texts state that the Lord stirred up the spirit of Kowresh or Koresh, (Ezra version) which means that just as stated previously above you fail to recognize the involvement of supernatural powers, princes, or archons which the Book of Daniel makes even more clear concerning the context of these events:

2 Chronicles 36:22-23 KJV
22. Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
23. Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the Lord God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The Lord his God be with him, and let him go up.

Ezra 1:1-2 KJV
1. Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
2. Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Both of these passages were written well after Cyrus king of Persia had come and gone yet neither of them mention the words of Isaiah. If Ezra the priest and scribe does not count the decree of Cyrus king of Persia to be a fulfillment of Isaiah, (for it surely would have been mentioned here above) then what makes you feel you have the right to make your correctional additions to the Scripture? In addition to this the text of the several Isaiah passages in question do not say "Cyrus" but rather "Kow Resh" (and in the case of Ezra "Koresh" is also in the text as mentioned previously). "Kow-Resh" is Kav-Vav-Resh-Shin and "Koresh" is Kav-Resh-Shin.

Kav-Vav = "to pierce" or "pierced"
Resh-Shin = "head" (Rosh)

Yochanan the Immerser was beheaded and a crown of thorns was placed upon the head of Moshiya Yeshua when he was crucified; yet nowhere do we find anything written concerning Cyrus king of Persia having any such things done to him. In addition to these facts we know that ancient Greek language goes all the way back to the ninth century BC and before that we have prophetic statements concerning Yavan and his four sons from Torah. Then after Torah we have other prophetic statements concerning Yavan from other books of the prophets including Daniel. There is a possibility that the Isaiah passages in question might be transposing or transliterating a Greek word directly into Hebrew because of what would eventually be the coming of the "prince" of Yavan, (speaking of language in this sense). If this might be the case then what is the Greek transliteration of the name Cyrus? It is "Kuros", "Kurou", or "Kuro" (supremacy-power-authority) which are all ancient forms of Kurios-Lord-Master.

BDB - Strong's Greek Definition for # 2962
2962 // kuriov // kurios // koo'-ree-os //
from kuros (supremacy); TDNT - 3:1039,486; n m
AV - Lord 667, lord 54, master 11, sir 6, Sir 6, misc 4; 748
1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has
power of deciding; master, lord
1a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
1a1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
1a2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
1b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence,
with which servants greet their master
1c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2962

BLB - Strong's G2962 - kyrios
κύριος
Root Word (Etymology)
From kuros (supremacy)
http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2962&t=KJV

Ezra 1:1-2 Greek OT: LXX-Septuagint Transliterated
1. kai en tō prōtō etei kurou tou basileōs persōn tou telesthēnai logon kuriou apo stomatos ieremiou exēgeiren kurios to pneuma kurou basileōs persōn kai parēngeilen phōnēn en pasē basileia autou kai ge en graptō legōn
2. outōs eipen kuros basileus persōn pasas tas basileias tēs gēs edōken moi kurios o theos tou ouranou kai autos epeskepsato ep' eme tou oikodomēsai autō oikon en ierousalēm tē en tē ioudaia
http://biblehub.com/sept/ezra/1.htm

Isaiah 44:28 Greek OT: LXX-Septuagint Transliterated
28. o legōn kurō phronein kai panta ta thelēmata mou poiēsei o legōn ierousalēm oikodomēthēsē kai ton oikon ton agion mou themeliōsō
http://biblehub.com/sept/isaiah/44.htm

Isaiah 45:1 Greek OT: LXX-Septuagint Transliterated
1. outōs legei kurios o theos tō christō mou kurō ou ekratēsa tēs dexias epakousai emprosthen autou ethnē kai ischun basileōn diarrēxō anoixō emprosthen autou thuras kai poleis ou sunkleisthēsontai
http://biblehub.com/sept/isaiah/45.htm

In addition to all of these things the main reason you and your dispensationalist fathers desire to make Cyrus king of Persia into the fulfillment of the Isaiah prophecy is because you are then free to insist that the mashiyach-anointed one of Daniel 9:24-27 is Messiah Yeshua. However, you have not addressed the statements of Yeshua posted on the previous page of this thread where he makes clear that it was not to be himself that was about to be cut off and have nothing:

daq said:
How is it written of the Son of man? That he should be cut off and set to nothingness?

Daniel 9:26 Westminster Leningrad Codex
http://biblos.com/daniel/9-26.htm

וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין לֹ֑ו וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצֹּ֣ו בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֹֽות׃

יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין לֹ֑ו
"yikaret mashiyach w'eyn low"
"shall be cut off an anointed [one], and [there is] not-nothing to-for-of him"

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #3772
Romanized karath
Pronounced kaw-rath'
a primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces):
KJV--be chewed, be con-[feder-]ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ([covenant]), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Hebrew Definition for #03772
03772 // trk // karath // kaw-rath' //
a primitive root; TWOT - 1048; v
AV - cut off 145, make 85, cut down 23, cut 9, fail 6, destroy 4, want 3, covenanted 2, hew 2, misc 9; 288
1) to cut, cut off, cut down, cut off a body part, cut out, eliminate, kill, cut a covenant
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cut off
1a1a) to cut off a body part, behead
1a2) to cut down
1a3) to hew
1a4) to cut or make a covenant
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be cut off
1b2) to be cut down
1b3) to be chewed
1b4) to be cut off, fail
1c) (Pual)
1c1) to be cut off
1c2) to be cut down
1d) (Hiphil)
1d1) to cut off
1d2) to cut off, destroy
1d3) to cut down, destroy
1d4) to take away
1d5) to permit to perish
1e) (Hophal) cut off

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #369
Romanized 'ayin
Pronounced ah'-yin
as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle:
KJV--else, except, fail, [father-]less, be gone, in[-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor, (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un(-searchable), well-nigh, without. Compare HSN0370.

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Hebrew Definition for #0369
0369 // Nya // 'ayin // ah'-yin //
as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist;
TWOT - 81; subst n neg adv w/prep
AV - except, faileth, fatherless, incurable, infinite, innumerable, neither, never, no, none, not, nothing, nought, without; 29
1) nothing, not, nought
n
1a) nothing, nought
neg
1b) not
1c) to have not (of possession)
adv
1d) without
w/prep
1e) for lack of

Mark 9:12-13 ASV
12. And he said unto them, Elijah indeed cometh first, and restoreth all things: and how [GSN#4459 pos] is it written of the Son of man, that he should suffer many things and be set at nought? [GSN#1847 exoudenoo]
13. But [GSN#235 alla] I say unto you, that Elijah is come, and they have also done unto him whatsoever they would, even as it is written of him.

The first underlined word translated "how" is pos which is an interrogative and implies that what follows is given in the form of a question, (which will then be answered by the Teacher himself). When posed indirectly the interrogative pos basically implies a query in the form of in what manner? in what way? how can it be? can it be true? etc., etc.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #4459
Romanized pos
Pronounced poce
adverb from the base of GSN4226; an interrogative particle of manner; in what way? (sometimes the question is indirect, how?); also as exclamation, how much!:
KJV--how, after (by) what manner (means), that. [Occasionally unexpressed in English].

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Greek Definition for #04459
4459 // pwv // pos // poce //
adverb from the base of 4226 , an interrogative particle of manner; particle
AV - how 99, by what means 2, after what manner 1, that 1; 103
1) how, in what way

The next underlined word in the text above is the compound ex-oudenoo and while it is translated in the KJV as "set at nought" a deeper prophetic meaning is revealed through the meaning of one of its compounds which is oudeis meaning NOTHING.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #1847
Romanized exoudenoo
Pronounced ex-oo-den-o'-o
from GSN1537 and a derivative of the neuter of GSN3762; to make utterly nothing of, i.e. despise:
KJV--set at nought. See also GSN1848.

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Greek Definition for #01847
1847 // exoudenew // exoudenoo // ex-oo-den-o'-o //
from 1537 and a derivative of the neuter of 3762 ; v
AV - be set at nought 1; 1
1) to hold and treat as of no account, utterly to despise
2) to set at nought, treat with contempt

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #3762
Romanized oudeis
Pronounced oo-dice'
including feminine oudemia {oo-dem-ee'-ah}; and neuter ouden {oo-den'}; from GSN3761 and GSN1520; not even one (man, woman or thing), i.e. none, nobody, nothing:
KJV--any (man), aught, man, neither any (thing), never (man), no (man), none (+ of these things), not (any, at all, -thing), nought.

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Greek Definition for #03762
3762 // oudeiv // oudeis // oo-dice' // including feminine
// oudemia // oudemia // oo-dem-ee'-ah // and neuter
// ouden // ouden // oo-den' //
from 3761 and 1520 ; pron
AV - no man 94, nothing 68, none 27, no 24, any man 3, any 3, man 2, neither any man 2, misc 13; 236
1) no one, nothing

The last underlined word at the opening of Mark 9:13 is alla which in many places should more likely be rendered as CONTRARIWISE. And this is especially true when the Teacher poses an interrogatory to his talmidim-disciples and intends to give them an answer which they were not expecting to hear; for his answer is CONTRARY to what he knew they would be thinking.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #235
Romanized alla
Pronounced al-lah'
neuter plural of GSN0243; properly, other things, i.e. (adverbially) contrariwise (in many relations):
KJV--and, but (even), howbeit, indeed, nay, nevertheless, no, notwithstanding, save, therefore, yea, yet.

Brown, Driver, Briggs (BDB)
Strong's Greek Definition for #0235
235 // alla // alla // al-lah' //
neuter plural of 0243 ; conj
AV - but 573, yea 15, yet 11, nevertheless 10, howbeit 9, nay 4, therefore 3, save 2, not tr 2, misc 8; 637
1) but
1a) nevertheless, notwithstanding
1b) an objection
1c) an exception
1d) a restriction
1e) nay, rather, yea, moreover
1f) forms a transition to the cardinal matter

Mark 9:12-13 GNT Morph
12 ὁ δὲ ἔφη αὐτοῖς Ἠλίας μὲν ἐλθὼν πρῶτον ἀποκαθιστάνει πάντα καὶ πῶς γέγραπται ἐπὶ τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἵνα πολλὰ πάθῃ καὶ ἐξουδενηθῇ ?
13 ἀλλὰ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι καὶ Ἠλίας ἐλήλυθεν καὶ ἐποίησαν αὐτῷ ὅσα ἤθελον καθὼς γέγραπται ἐπ’ αὐτόν

Mark 9:12-13 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented)
12. Ho de efe autois, "Elias men elthon proton apokathistanei panta. Kai pos gegraptai epi ton Huion tou Anthropou hina polla pathe kai exoudenethe?
13. Alla lego humin hoti kai Elias eleluthen, kai epoiesan auto hosa ethelon, kathos gegraptai ep auton."^

In what manner is it written of the Son of man? Was Yeshua to be cut off to utter nothingness? To be cut off and not be? To not exist if even temporarily? To be cut off and have nothing to-for-of himself? To be brought to utter nothingness? Paulos writes in 1 Corinthians 12:3 that "No one speaking by the Spirit of God says; "Yeshua Anathema", which is to say that Yeshua was "cut off" or "excommunicated" even if for an instant or moment.

Mark 9:12-13
12. And he said unto them, "Elias verily comes first restoring all things. And how is it written concerning the Son of man? that he should suffer many things and be set to utter nothingness?
13. Contrariwise, I say unto you, that also Elias has come; and they have done unto him whatsoever they desired, as it is written concerning him." (Re: Daniel 9:26)

Luke 1:13-17 ASV
13. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: because thy supplication is heard, and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, [a mashiyach anointed one] even from his mother's womb.
16. And many of the children of Israel shall be turn unto the Lord their God.
17. And he shall go before his face in the spirit and power of Elijah, [mashiyach-anointing of Eliyahu] to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to walk in the wisdom of the just; to make ready for the Lord a people prepared for him.

Daniel 9:24-26 TUA - Transliteration
24. Shabu`iym shib`iym nechtak `al- `amka w`al- `iyrqadsheka lkale' hapesha`, uwlhatem {*} chaTa't {*},uwlkaper `awon, uwlhabiy' tsedeq `olamiym, wlachtom chazownwnabiy', wlimshoach qodesh qadashiym.
24. Seventy weeks-generations are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city: to finish the transgression; and to make an end of sins; and to atone for iniquity; and to bring in righteousness everlasting; and for the closing of the vision and prophecy; and for to anoint holy holies.
25. Wteda` wtaskel min- motsa' dabar lhashiyb wlibnowt Yruwshalaim, `ad- mashiyach, nagiyd, shabu`iym shib`ah. Wshabu`iym shishiym uwshnayim tashuwb wnibntah rchowbwcharuwts uwbtsowq ha`itiym.
25. Know therefore and understand: From the going forth of the Word, for the return and the building of Jerusalem; unto-until a mashiyach, [Yochanan the Immerser ha-Qowre' Eliyahu] a nagiyd, [Yeshua Nagiyd of the Brit-Covenant] shall be seven weeks-generations. And sixty and two weeks-generations shall return-repent; and the broad place shall be built, and the tough digging, even in the troubles of the times.
26. W'achrey hashabu`iymshishiym uwshnayim yikaret Mashiyach w'eyn low. Wha`iyrwhaqodesh yashchiyt `am nagiyd haba'. Wqitsow basheTep, w`adqets milchamah -- nechretset shomemowt.
26. And after the weeks-generations sixty and two shall mashiyach [Yochanan ha-Qowre'] be cut off, and there is nothing to-for him. And the city and the qodesh-holy-sanctuary shall be corrupted: the people of the Nagiyd to come; and his end [Yeshua Nagiyd of the Brit-Covenant] is in a flood, [Daniel 11:22] and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. Whigbiyr briytlarabiym shabuwa` 'echad. Wachtsiy hashabuwa` yashbiytzebach uwminchah. W`al knap shiquwtsiym mshomem, w`ad- kalahwnechratsah titak `al- shomem.
27. And he [Yeshua Nagiyd] shall strengthen-confirm the Covenant for the many week one ['echad - the first and only shabuwa` literal week]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause to cease the sacrifice and oblation. And for the overspreading of abominations it shall be desolated; even unto the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Was it Yeshua haNagiyd Commander of the Covenant that was cut off and set to nought-nothingness?
Says Yeshua Moshiya: Contrariwise, it was Yochanan ha-Qowre' mashiyach-anointed Eliyahu!
Yeshua Nagiyd Brit was Crucified but of those given to him of the Father he lost none . . .

Likewise you and your dispensationalist fathers ignore the clear warnings of the New Testament Scripture which clearly states that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will say "Anathema Yeshua", (which means "excommunicated" or karath-"cut off"). Yeshua was not "excommunicated" from the great congregation like a scapegoat; neither was he karath-cut off for your sins, (though he paid the penalty for our sins in our place) for the Father never turned his face away from the Son: not even for one split millisecond or moment in time.

1 Corinthians 12:3 TUA
3. Diognorizo humin hoti oudeis en Pneumati Theou lalon legei, "Anathema Iesous!" kai oudeis dunatai eipein, "Kurios Iesous!" ei-me en Pneumati Hagio.
3. Wherefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, "Anathema Yeshua!" and no one is able to say "Kurios Yeshua!" except but in the Spirit Holy.

Moshiya-Messias Yeshua cannot be the mashiyach of Daniel 9:26 who is karath-cut off into nothingness.
The anointed one of Daniel 9:26 is therefore Yochanan haQowre' mashiyach-anointed of the Spirit of Eliyahu.
Mowshiya` Yeshua is the Nagiyd-Brit Commander of the Covenant who confirmed it, (Daniel 9:27) in his own blood at Golgotha.

Retrobyter · Sep 8, 2013

Shalom, daq.

Now, you're just being foolish. Ezra is CERTAINLY about the rulers of Persia for THEY ARE NAMED!!! Those who do not learn from history are DOOMED to repeat it! And, those who do not learn that the Scriptures contain finished prophecies in history are doomed to think they must be fulfilled some allegorical way!

Just LOOK ... READ ... STUDY Ezra 1-6!

Ezra 1:1-4; 4:1-6:22
1:1 In the first year of Koresh king of Persia, in order for the word of Adonai prophesied by Yirmeyahu to be fulfilled, Adonai stirred up the spirit of Koresh king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his whole kingdom, which he also put in writing, as follows:
2 “Here is what Koresh king of Persia says: Adonai, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms on earth; and he has charged me to build him a house in Yerushalayim, in Y’hudah. 3 Whoever there is among you of all his people, may his God be with him! He may go up to Yerushalayim, in Y’hudah, and build the house of Adonai the God of Isra’el, the God who is in Yerushalayim. 4 Let every survivor, no matter where he lives, be helped by his neighbors with silver, gold, goods and animals, in addition to the voluntary offering for the house of God in Yerushalayim.”
...

4:1 When the enemies of Y’hudah and Binyamin heard that the people from the exile were building a temple to Adonai the God of Isra’el, 2 they approached Z’rubavel and the heads of fathers’ clans and said to them, “Let us build along with you; for we seek your God, just as you do; and we have been sacrificing to him since the time of Esar-Hadon king of Ashur, who brought us here.” 3 But Z’rubavel, Yeshua and the rest of the heads of fathers’ clans in Isra’el answered them, “You and we have nothing in common that you should join us in building a house for our God. We will build by ourselves for Adonai the God of Isra’el, as Koresh king of Persia ordered us to do.”
4 Then the people of the land began discouraging the people of Y’hudah, in order to make them afraid to build. 5 They also bribed officials to frustrate their plan throughout the lifetime of Koresh king of Persia and on into the reign of Daryavesh king of Persia. 6 During the reign of Achashverosh, at the beginning of his reign, they brought a charge in writing against the people living in Y’hudah and Yerushalayim. 7 Then, during the time of Artach’shashta, Bishlam, Mitr’dat, Tav’el and their other colleagues wrote Artach’shashta; the letter was written in Aramaic, using Aramaic script. 8 Rechum the district governor and Shimshai the secretary wrote a letter against Yerushalayim to Artach’shashta the king as follows:

9 “From Rechum the district governor, Shimshai the secretary, their other colleagues, the judges, the officials, the Dina’im, the Afarsat’khim, the Tarp’lim, the Afarsim, the Ark’vim, the Bavlim, the Shushan’kayim, the Dehayim, the ‘Elma’im, 10 the other nations whom the great and noble Asnapar deported and settled in Shomron, and the others who remain in the country beyond the [Euphrates] River.”
11 (This is the text of the letter they sent him.)
“To Artach’shashta the king from his servants the people beyond the River:
12 “Let the king know that the Judeans who left you to come to us in Yerushalayim are building this rebellious and wicked city. They have finished the walls and are now digging the foundations. 13 So let the king know that if this city is rebuilt and the walls are finished, they will refuse to pay tribute, tax or toll; and this will reduce the royal revenue. 14 Now, because we eat the king’s salt, and it is not right for us to see the king dishonored, we therefore are sending to inform the king, 15 so that a search can be made in the archives of your ancestors; in these archives you will find and ascertain that this city is indeed a rebellious city, the bane of kings and provinces, and that sedition has been fostered there since ancient times — which is why this city was destroyed. 16 We submit to the king that if this city is rebuilt and the walls are finished, you will soon lose possession of all territories beyond the River.”

17 The king sent this answer:

“To Rechum the district governor, Shimshai the secretary, their other colleagues living in Shomron, and the rest beyond the River:
“Shalom!
18 “The letter you sent us has now been translated for me. 19 I ordered a search made, and it was found that this city has a long history of revolt against kings, that rebellion and sedition have been fostered there; 20 also that there have been powerful kings over Yerushalayim who ruled all the territory beyond the River; and tribute, taxes and tolls were paid to them.
21 “So now, order that these men stop work and that this city not be rebuilt until I order it. 22 Take care not to neglect your duty; otherwise the harm may increase, to the damage of the king.”

23 When the text of King Artach’shashta’s letter was read before Rechum, Shimshai the secretary and their colleagues, they hurried to Yerushalayim to the Judeans and stopped their work by force of arms. 24 So the work on the house of God in Yerushalayim ceased; it remained at a standstill until the second year of the reign of Daryavesh king of Persia.
5 1 The prophets Hagai and Z’kharyah the son of ‘Iddo prophesied to the Judeans in Yerushalayim and Y’hudah; they prophesied to them in the name of the God of Isra’el. 2 Then Z’rubavel the son of Sh’alti’el and Yeshua the son of Yotzadak began rebuilding the house of God in Yerushalayim; with them were the prophets of God, helping them.
3 No sooner had they begun, when Tatnai the governor of the territory beyond the [Euphrates] River, Sh’tar-Boznai and their colleagues came and asked them, “Who gave you permission to rebuild this house and finish this wall? 4 What are the names of the men putting up this building?” 5 But the eye of their God was on the leaders of the Judeans, so they didn’t stop them until the matter could come before Daryavesh and a reply in writing be received.
6 Here is the text of the letter which Tatnai the governor of the territory beyond the River, Sh’tar-Boznai and their fellow officials beyond the River sent to Daryavesh the king; 7 they sent him a letter in which it was written:

“To Daryavesh the king,
“Complete shalom!”
8 “Let the king know that we went to the province of Y’hudah, to the house of the great God. It is being rebuilt with large stones, and timber is being set in the walls. This work is being done energetically, and it is making good progress under the direction 9 of their leaders. We asked them, ‘Who gave you permission to rebuild this house and finish this wall?’ 10 We also asked them their names, so that we could write you the names of the men in charge of them.
11 “They gave us this answer: ‘We are the servants of the God of heaven and earth. We are rebuilding the house that was built many years ago, built and finished by a great king of Isra’el. 12 But because our ancestors provoked the God of heaven, he handed them over to N’vukhadnetzar king of Bavel, the Kasdi; he destroyed this house and carried the people off to Bavel. 13 But in the first year of Koresh king of Bavel, Koresh the king gave authorization to rebuild this house of God. 14 Moreover, the gold and silver articles belonging to the house of God, which N’vukhadnetzar had removed from the temple in Yerushalayim and brought to the temple of Bavel, Koresh the king took out of the temple in Bavel; they were turned over to a man named Sheshbatzar, whom he had appointed governor. 15 He said to him, “Take these articles, go, put them in the temple in Yerushalayim, and let the house of God be rebuilt on its original site.” 16 So this same Sheshbatzar came and laid the foundations of the house of God in Yerushalayim; it has been under construction ever since, and it isn’t finished yet.
17 “‘Now therefore, if it seems good to the king, let a search be made in the royal treasury there in Bavel to determine whether a decree was issued by Koresh the king to rebuild this house of God in Yerushalayim; and let the king send us his decision concerning this matter.’”

6:1 Daryavesh the king issued an order; and search was made in the archives building, where treasures were stored in Bavel; 2 and there was found at Achm’ta, in the palace which is in the province of Media, a scroll on which was written the following:

“Memorandum:
3 “In the first year of Koresh the king, Koresh the king issued this decree: ‘Concerning the house of God in Yerushalayim, let the house be rebuilt, the place where they offer sacrifices; and let its foundations be firmly laid. Its height is to be ninety feet and its breadth ninety feet, 4 with three rows of large stones and one row of new timber. The expenses are to be charged to the king’s treasury. 5 Also let the gold and silver articles belonging to the house of God, which N’vukhadnetzar removed from the temple at Yerushalayim and brought to Bavel, be restored and returned to the temple in Yerushalayim, each item to its place; and you are to put them in the house of God.’

6 “Therefore, Tatnai governor of the territory beyond the River, Sh’tar-Boznai and your colleagues the officials beyond the River, stay away from there! 7 Let the work of this house of God alone. Let the governor of the Judeans and the leaders of the Judeans rebuild this house of God on its site.
8 “Moreover, I herewith issue this order concerning how you are to assist these leaders of the Judeans in rebuilding this house of God: the expenses of these men are to be defrayed promptly from the royal funds, from the taxes collected beyond the River, so that the work can continue. 9 Whatever they need — young bulls, rams and lambs — for burnt offerings to the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine and olive oil, according to what the cohanim in Yerushalayim say, is to be given them daily without fail; 10 so that they can offer sacrifices with a fragrant aroma to the God of heaven and pray for the life of the king and his sons.
11 “I also order that if anyone defies this order, a beam is to be pulled from his house; and he is to be lifted up and impaled on it. His house is to be reduced to rubble. 12 May the God who has caused his name to be there overthrow any king or people that tries to defy it and destroy this house of God in Yerushalayim.
“I, Daryavesh, have issued this order. Let it be carried out to the letter.”

13 Then Tatnai the governor of the territory beyond the [Euphrates] River, Sh’tar-Boznai and their colleagues obeyed strictly; because Daryavesh the king had given the order to do so.
14 The leaders of the Judeans made good progress with the rebuilding, thanks to the prophesying of Hagai the prophet and Z’kharyah the son of ‘Iddo. They kept building until they were finished, in keeping with the command of the God of Isra’el and in accordance with the order of Koresh, Daryavesh and Artach’shashta king of Persia. 15 This house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Daryavesh the king. 16 The people of Isra’el, the cohanim, the L’vi’im and the other people from the exile joyfully dedicated this house of God. 17 At the dedication of this house of God they offered 100 young bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and, as a sin offering for all Isra’el, twelve male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Isra’el.
18 Then they installed the cohanim in their divisions and the L’vi’im in their orders for the service of God in Yerushalayim, as written in the book of Moshe.
19 The people from the exile kept Pesach on the fourteenth day of the first month. 20 For the cohanim and L’vi’im had purified themselves together; all of them were pure. So they slaughtered the Pesach lambs for all the people from the exile and for their kinsmen the cohanim and for themselves. 21 The people of Isra’el who had returned from the exile and all those who had renounced the filthy practices of the nations living in the land in order to seek Adonai the God of Isra’el, ate [the Pesach lamb] 22 and joyfully kept the feast of matzah for seven days; for Adonai had filled them with joy by turning the heart of the king of Ashur toward them, so that he assisted them in the work of the house of God, the God of Isra’el.
CJB

Get a grip on your "supernal words" and your allegorical thinking and COME BACK TO REALITY! This is HISTORY, man!

daq · Sep 8, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

Now, you're just being foolish. Ezra is CERTAINLY about the rulers of Persia for THEY ARE NAMED!!! Those who do not learn from history are DOOMED to repeat it! And, those who do not learn that the Scriptures contain finished prophecies in history are doomed to think they must be fulfilled some allegorical way!

Just LOOK ... READ ... STUDY Ezra 1-6!

Get a grip on your "supernal words" and your allegorical thinking and COME BACK TO REALITY! This is HISTORY, man!

I have no problem understanding the history of all those things and placing them in their proper historical contexts; neither do I need any history lessons from you or your teachers because your history is surely skewed by the flesh perspective of your teachers. You need to answer this question or go find another sand box to build your play castles:

Matthew 17:1-13 KJV
1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
10. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The disciples clearly understood that Yeshua spoke of Yochanan the Immerser when he spoke of Eliyahu in the above passage. When we arrive at the companion passage in Mark we are shown more of what the Master actually said in this very same occasion:

Mark 9:4-13 KJV
4. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5. And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9. And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10. And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
11. And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12. And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

The Master clearly states that IT IS WRITTEN concerning Eliyahu that they would do with him as they pleased.
The disciples clearly understood that the Master spoke to them of Yochanan the Immerser when he states this of Eliyahu.

THEREFORE WHERE ARE THESE THINGS WRITTEN OF ELIYAHU-ELIJAH-YOCHANAN?

If you do not have the answer from the Scripture then you have absolutely no understanding of these things.

Retrobyter · Sep 8, 2013

Shalom, daq.

2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.
KJV

It may not be specifically about Eliyahu, but ... hey! ... Isn't Eliyahu one of YHWH'S (the LORD'S) prophets?

daq · Sep 8, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.
KJV

It may not be specifically about Eliyahu, but ... hey! ... Isn't Eliyahu one of YHWH'S (the LORD'S) prophets?

Why do you pay no attention when someone else posts the answers for you from the Scripture? Why do you continually ignore the answers given from the Scripture and pretend that they do not exist when you claim to be a disciple of Messiah and the Word? Why do you keep forcing those who disagree with you to constantly repeat themselves? Do you simply enjoy harassing others the way you do? The answers to the above have already been rendered right here in this very thread if only you would pay attention to what others have to say:

daq said:
Wrong kind of "cut off" but here are some Tanak clues:

1 Samuel 17:50-51 KJV
50. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
51. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off [HSN#3772 karath] his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

1 Samuel 31:8-9 KJV
8. And it came to pass on the morrow, when the Philistines came to strip the slain, that they found Saul and his three sons fallen in mount Gilboa.
9. And they cut off [HSN#3772 karath] his head, and stripped off his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to publish it in the house of their idols, and among the people.

While "karath" is found in Daniel 9:26 the same word is not found in Isaiah 53:8. The Bibles and their translators which make references to Daniel 9:26, (and sometimes Leviticus 17:10) are misleading because the words are not the same for "cut off" and have different sets of implications. Isaiah 53:8 employs the word "gazar" which is found in various other contexts where a fuller grasp of its implications may be obtained, (i.e. Lamentations 3:54 is a good example).

Isaiah 53:8 KJV
8. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off [HSN#1504 gazar] out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Daniel 9:26a TUA
26. W'achrey hashabu`iymshishiym uwshnayim yikaret [HSN#3772 karath] mashiyach w'eyn low

Leviticus 17:10 KJV
10. And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off [HSN#3772 karath] from among his people.

Likely for the same reason the Septuagint and Acts 8:33 read somewhat differently:

Isaiah 53:8 LXX Septuagint
8 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken away from the earth: because of the iniquities of my people he was led to death.
Esaias

Acts 8:32-33 KJV
32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33. In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Although "chayyim" appears in the later Masoretic Text of Isaiah 53:8 the Greek states that the "zoe-zao"-life, (Hebrew "chay") of Messiah was "airo"-taken away, (corresponding to the Hebrew "gazar" in this case). This is not the same as to "cut off" ("karath") such as in the literal beheading of Yochanan the Immerser. Likewise you may have noticed that "karath" is found written concerning the Covenant with Abram, (Genesis 15:18) and this is perhaps because it implies the literal cutting of the flesh of sacrificial animals and passing between the pieces in covenant. "Gazar" seems to be more general and metaphorical in the sense of a man bing "cut down" or "taken away" whereas "karath" has been used twice previously, (1Samuel quoted above) for literal "beheading" such as was the case with Yochanan the Immerser.

Yochanan haQowre' mashiyach Eliyahu was KARATH-CUT OFF-BEHEADED and set at nought (Daniel 9:26a) . . .

Retrobyter · Sep 8, 2013

Shalom, daq.

daq said:
Why do you pay no attention when someone else posts the answers for you from the Scripture? Why do you continually ignore the answers given from the Scripture and pretend that they do not exist when you claim to be a disciple of Messiah and the Word? Why do you keep forcing those who disagree with you to constantly repeat themselves? Do you simply enjoy harassing others the way you do? The answers to the above have already been rendered right here in this very thread if only you would pay attention to what others have to say:

Yochanan haQowre' mashiyach Eliyahu was KARATH-CUT OFF-BEHEADED and set at nought (Daniel 9:26a) . . .

It's simple really; I'm HIS disciple, NOT YOURS! And, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! I believe you're WAY OFF the bubble, and you've never given me any sort of reason to think otherwise! If anything, you've CONFIRMED my suspicions over and over again!

And, you make ME say it again and again: kaarat does NOT mean "to behead"; it means to "cut," which INCLUDES "cutting off one's head" or "beheading!" To say otherwise tells me that you don't even pay attention to the study helps that you claim to use! Maybe you should take a short course in how to interpret Strong's Dictionary entries!

daq · Sep 9, 2013

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

It's simple really; I'm HIS disciple, NOT YOURS! And, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! I believe you're WAY OFF the bubble, and you've never given me any sort of reason to think otherwise! If anything, you've CONFIRMED my suspicions over and over again!

And, you make ME say it again and again: kaarat does NOT mean "to behead"; it means to "cut," which INCLUDES "cutting off one's head" or "beheading!" To say otherwise tells me that you don't even pay attention to the study helps that you claim to use! Maybe you should take a short course in how to interpret Strong's Dictionary entries!

It is not me that you refuse to believe but rather the Scripture, Word, and Doctrine of Messiah Yeshua! :lol:

Posted 04 September 2013 - 8:18 AM to 11:06 PM in one of the threads linked below:

Matthew 12:42
42. The queen of the south [Sheba] shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Revelation 13:1-6
1. And he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed: and the whole earth wondered after the beast;
4. And they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?
5. And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.
6. And he opened his mouth into blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name, and his tabernacle-tent, that is, them tabernacle-tented in the heaven.

2 Kings 2:23-24 KJV
23. And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Hosea 13:6-8 KJV
6. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
7. Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8. I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Jeremiah 13:23 LXX-Septuagint (Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851)
23. If the Ethiopian shall change his skin, or the leopardess her spots, then shall ye be able to do good, having learnt evil.
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Jeremias/index.htm

Daniel 4:11-14 LXX-Septuagint (Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851)
11. Cut down the tree, and pluck off its branches, and shake off its leaves, and scatter its fruit: let the wild beasts be removed from under it, and the birds from its branches.
12. Only leave the stump of its roots in the earth, and bind it with an iron and brass band; and it shall lie in the grass that is without and in the dew of heaven, and its portion shall be with the wild beasts in the grass of the field.
13. His heart shall be changed from that of man, and the heart of a wild beast shall be given to him; and seven times shall pass over him.
14. The matter is by the decree of the watcher, and the demand is a word of the holy ones; that the living may known that the Lord is most high over the kingdom of men, and he will give it to whomsoever he shall please, and will set up over it that which is set at nought of men.
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Daniel/index.htm

Daniel 7:1-8 LXX-Septuagint (Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851)
1. In the first year of Baltasar, king of the Chaldeans Daniel had a dream, and visions of his head upon his bed: and he wrote his dream.
2. I Daniel beheld, and, lo, the four winds of heaven blew violently upon the great sea.
3. And there came up four great beasts out of the sea, differing from one another.
4. The first was as a lioness, and her wings as an eagle’s; I beheld until her wings were plucked, and she was lifted off from the earth, and she stood on human feet, and a man's heart was given to her.
5. And, behold, a second beast like a bear, and it supported itself on one side, and there were three ribs in its mouth, between its teeth: and thus they said to it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6. After this one I looked, and behold another wild beast as a leopard, and it had four wings of a bird upon it: and the wild beast had four heads, and power was given to it.
7. After this one I looked, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong, and its teeth were of iron; devouring and crushing to atoms, and it trampled the remainder with its feet: and it was altogether different from the beasts that were before it; and it had ten hours.
8. I noticed his horns, and behold, another little horn came up in the midst of them, and before it three of the former horns were rooted out: and, behold, there were eyes as the eyes of a man in this horn, and a mouth speaking great things.
http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/Daniel/index.htm

Luke 17:26-37 KJV
26. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29. But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32. Remember Lot's wife.
33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:06 PM

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

You mix much too much together from unrelated contexts and claim that they go together! PLEASE, don't cook for me! I don't want a pickles and ice cream hot-fudge steak with teriyaki sauce and sauerkraut on top!!

You are LEADING PEOPLE ASTRAY! When Yeshua` returns IN HIS RESURRECTED, PHYSICAL BODY to establish His Kingdom on this earth AS PROMISED IN ALL THE PROPHECIES OF THE TANAKH, you're going to have a LOT of back-peddling to do! I hope you like to eat crow!

There's too much to correct and I don't have the desire to attempt the monumental task that would have to be performed; so, it may LOOK like you've won, but the Ruach haQodesh is going to have to correct you. I cannot, and you wouldn't listen to me anyway. I turn you over to the Spirit for His correction, and if He feels you won't listen to Him either, then He may turn you over to haSatan for whatever needs to be done.

I wash my hands of you.

Double minded man why do you inquire of me now and what do I owe you? :lol:

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, daq.

SPEAK PLAINLY!!! None of this makes any sense for what you quoted from me! Take you medication and get back on track! You're drifting into your ramblings again!

Oy Vey! And you call yourself a Jew? (Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9). Too bad you cannot understand these words seeing how they are directed only toward your own fierce anthropon-countenance of `Az at this time, (each in his or her own appointed times and none shall be alone in his appointed times). When you see the south wind blow, which is a thing that cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh, you say there will be heat and it comes to pass. Hypocrite, for seeing the face of the earth and the sky you interpret it; but how is it that seeing this appointed time you cannot discern? Why moreover what is from yourself can you not rightly judge?

Revelation 2:20-23 KJV
20. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Likewise there is a witness not from myself that these things I write not from myself:

daq said:
Leil Selichot - 30/31 August 2013 ~ יָמִים, אֶלֶף מָאתַיִם וְתִשְׁעִים
And, lo, I perceived that Elohim had not sent him; but that he pronounced this prophecy against me: for Tobiah and Sanballat had hired him. Therefore was he hired, that I should be afraid, and do so, and sin, and that they might have matter for an evil report, that they might reproach me. My Elohim, think thou upon Tobiah and Sanballat according to these their works, and the rest of the prophets, that would have put me in fear. So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days. Show mercy, O Father, and let not this man be a sign unto this entire nation but unto himself in this the Eve of Destruction. Show mercy, O Father, upon this man also which has unknowingly completed his own wall of Anak in the self same day, 24-25 Elul, repeating words of infamy in calling the brethren Meshuggah and Raca, like the hook of Anak in the jaws of the fatlings of Bashan even as you and your holy Son Yeshua have warned us in your holy Word. For thus saith YHWH of armies; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith YHWH of armies. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith YHWH of armies. The glory of the latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith YHWH of armies: and in that place will I give peace, saith YHWH of armies! Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Yehudah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. In that day, saith YHWH, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith YHWH, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith YHWH of armies. And stirred up YHWH the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Yehudah, and the spirit of Yehoshua the son of Yehotsadaq, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of YHWH of armies, their 'Elohim, in the four and twentieth day of the sixth month, Elul.

Retrobyter said:
Shabbat shalom, daq.

It takes longer and longer to figure you out, but the wisdom from Elohiym will not fail me.

Stringing it all together WITHOUT REFERENCES does a DISSERVICE both to you and your readers. First, your first four sentences quoted Nehemiah 6:12-15, probably from the TUA that you often quote. Then, the next two sentences are your own, presumably in a prayer you are making, supposedly on my behalf. Then, the next three sentences quoted Haggai 2:6-9. Then, the next two sentences quoted Haggai 2:21-23, and your final sentence quoted Haggai 1:14-15a, thusly:

"And, lo, I perceived that Elohim had not sent him; but that he pronounced this prophecy against me: for Tobiah and Sanballat had hired him. Therefore was he hired, that I should be afraid, and do so, and sin, and that they might have matter for an evil report, that they might reproach me. My Elohim, think thou upon Tobiah and Sanballat according to these their works, and the rest of the prophets, that would have put me in fear. So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days. (Neh. 6:12-15) Show mercy, O Father, and let not this man be a sign unto this entire nation but unto himself in this the Eve of Destruction. Show mercy, O Father, upon this man also which has unknowingly completed his own wall of Anakhttp://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18108-yeshua-says/?p=203517 in the self same day, 24-25 Elul, repeating words of infamy in calling the brethren Meshuggah and Raca, like the hook of Anak in the jaws of the fatlings of Bashan even as you and your holy Son Yeshua have warned us in your holy Word. For thus saith YHWH of armies; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith YHWH of armies. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith YHWH of armies. The glory of the latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith YHWH of armies: and in that place will I give peace, saith YHWH of armies! (Hag. 2:6-9) Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Yehudah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. In that day, saith YHWH, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith YHWH, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith YHWH of armies. (Hag. 2:21-23) And stirred up YHWH the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Yehudah, and the spirit of Yehoshua the son of Yehotsadaq, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of YHWH of armies, their 'Elohim, in the four and twentieth day of the sixth month, Elul. (Hag. 1:14-15a)"

I also perceive that you have linked these verses together based on the date, since my post was on 24-25 Elul, 5773, on the Jewish calendar. (Why, I am not certain.)

daq said:
Obama backs down, blinks on Syria attack
Washington : DC : USA | Aug 31, 2013 at 12:17 PM PDT
"President Barack Obama's "red line" in Syria just turned gray. In a stunning reversal, Obama announced Saturday that he will, after all, seek congressional approval before attacking the Syrian government for its alleged use of chemical weapons against the Syrian people. It was just yesterday that both Secretary of State John Kerry and President Obama in back-to-back pronouncements laid out what they described as irrefutable evidence of Syrian President Bashar Assad's approval of the use of these weapons. Kerry and Obama claimed that these weapons of mass destruction have resulted in the deaths of at least 1,400 people, including over 400 children. Immediately following the president's and the secretary's speeches, speculation throughout the mediasphere changed from not if but when this nation-state would attack Syria."

Thank you Father in heaven for hearing the petitions of your lowly servants and for revealing the mighty power and strength of your arm; to the intent that we may know that in all the kingdoms and dominions of the man you alone do rule. They drank wine, and praised the 'elahhey of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone, and of war, and of death, and tanks, and aircraft, and their vessels, and their ships, and their missiles, and their bombs. In the same hour came the forth fingers of the hand of an 'Adam, and wrote over against the lampstand, upon the plaster of the wall, inside the palace dwelling of the king: and the king perceived the portion of the hand that wrote in the wall of his house. Then was the countenance of the king changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the hinges of his gates were loosed, and his knees smote one against another. And the Most High changed the course of the history of the world in an hour, even in a single moment in time; to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in all the dominions of the man, and gives it to whomsoever he will, and sets up over it the lowliest of men. And even though these things may still come to pass in their times; we as your servants know that when they do it will not be according to the will of man; but according to thy own time, and thy own will, O Living Father.

Mene, Mene, Tekel, uwParacin: a lioness of gold and a twain silver she-bear.

Lift up your head for your redemption draws nigh!

Retrobyter said:
Lo' shalom, daq.
Only YOU would laugh about someone being beheaded or take pleasure in it.

daq said:
Of course you and your genos-kind would only be capable of understanding such things as physical in meaning. Enough of your lashon hara` and blasphemies; if you want to live now you will also need to chop off that tongue. The clock is ticking and you will not be released from the leaven of Herod from your own doings and your own Patmos prison until you have repaid every penny that you owe.

Chop! Chop! Only then might you be capable and willing to put on the mind of Messiah and make Yeshua the true Master and Head over your life; for great shall be the day of Jezreel when you come up out of your own land to stand before Messiah at the Bematos tou Christou and answer for what you have done here against the brethren with your tongue of ra`. :lol:

Once upon the consummation of an age there was a firstborn son of Belial who was ymiyniy-righthanded, just like his spiritual father, and his name was Sheba-Seven. One day Sheba saw an opportunity to steal the kingdom away for himself toward his own glory; and seizing the moment he went out blowing his own trumpet so as to turn all Yisrael away from the Great King, the True Father of above. And so it came to pass that every man of Yisrael began to harken to the bellowings, blowings, neighings, and empty words of hot air which came forth from the heart of Sheba; and the Great King sent forth an executioner to put an end to the subversive and destructive naysayings of the imposter Sheba. And soon enough the executioner caught up with Sheba-Seven, who then fled to the city of Abel; where he took refuge from the executioner within the city walls. So the executioner gathered his forces, and they came and besieged him in Abel of Beth-Maachah, and they cast up a bank against the city, which stood against the wall: and all the people that were with the messenger of the King battered the wall, to throw it down. Then cried a wise woman out of the city: Hear, hear! I pray you Sir, unto the messenger of the King, Please come near that I may speak with thee. And he obliged, and come near unto her, and the woman said; Art thou Yoab? And he answered, I am. Then she said unto him, Hear the words of thine handmaid! And he answered, I will hear. Then she spake, saying, They were wont to speak in old time, saying, They shall surely ask counsel at Abel: and thus shall they end the matter! I am one of them that are peaceable and faithful in Yisrael: you seek to destroy a city and a mother in Yisrael: why wilt thou swallow up the inheritance of the Most High? And Yoab answered and said; Far be it, far be it from me, that I should swallow up or destroy! Is it not so that the matter is that a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the King? (also against king David)? Deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the wise woman said unto Yoab: Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall. Then the woman of the Covenant, Yerushalaim of Above, the mother of all the faithful in Yisrael, went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they KARATH-CUT-OFF the Sheba-Seven head and cast it out to Yoab. And he blew a trumpet, and they retired from the city, every man to his tent.

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