Female Pastors

KingJ · May 10, 2013

101G said:
2 KingJ, GINOLJC
I started not to respond to this, but you make it so plain, how Ignorant you are. using a lame excuse, and language unbecoming a Christian.

How does a woman run a church when she is pregnant?

Oh my gosh, I hope her husband is pregnant too!. listen, not just any and every person, be it a male or female takes this position, they must desire it. they know what they are getting into. they are not a "novice,". these people who are called, and or given to the ministry or desire the work, our Lord know them and their heart. did he not pick one that was a "devil"?. the Lord know what he is doing.

How does a woman preach loud enough with no microphone?

your not listening to her anyway, so why you want to hear. but any way. one don't have to scream, in the preaching of the gospel. God will attuned your ears to hear if you want to hear. or just turn up the volume on your hearing aide. or arrangement can be made for you to move to the front so that you can hear. and don,'t worry the mike want be broke every Sunday. but if it is, then you need to take it upon yourself to see to it that the mike is in good working order every Sunday. now that's called being a helper, . help a sister out.

How does a woman force her view on others without coming across butch? What guy in his right mind is attracted to a butch woman?

why she want to force her views on anyone, she only speaks the truth. it up to you to hear. those who have ears, let them hear. and as for butch, you can leave that at your own front door before you leave home. thank you.

I am sure many woman who preach mean well. I respect them and I know that a few have gone through hard times. But they are out of place. It is only in these evil days where confusion abounds that you will find such.

if you knew a pastor who went through hard times and did not help in any kind of way, then your worst that an infidel. even the Lord Jesus said LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, but I see, you view women worst than an enemy. why is your heart so hard?. and as for out of place, you been out of place by your respond to this topic.
as a matter of fact if you can't respond honorably, don't respond at all. and your personal views of someone else have no place in this topic. thanking you in advance.

I am speaking casually to you because you ignore scripture. I am trying to get you to use your common sense and some lateral thinking. I guess my expectations are too high. You dodge the actual question by addressing the examples

(I can come up with a million more if you want)... why are woman created a weaker sex ? >< ?

101G · May 10, 2013

2 Queen James., oh i'm sorry, kj
why are woman created a weaker sex
in body or spirit, which one?

Polt · May 10, 2013

KingJ said:
How does a woman run a church when she is pregnant? How does a woman preach loud enough with no microphone? How does a woman force her view on others without coming across butch? What guy in his right mind is attracted to a butch woman?

I am sure many woman who preach mean well. I respect them and I know that a few have gone through hard times. But they are out of place. It is only in these evil days where confusion abounds that you will find such.

Even if there is some validity to your argument, it comes across as inflammatory and not substantive. A pregnant preacher need only miss a couple of Sundays, if even that. No big deal. And, the pregnancy angle doesn't even apply to older women (the senior pastor should be older).

Wormwood · May 10, 2013

101G,

In Greek, a word is maculine or feminine based on its ending. In some instances the for deacon is feminine. This does not mean for sure its about a female, but its possible.. Clearly in some instances it is referring to men (husband of one wife) but in some cases it could be referring to women. The Greek is not overly clear.

7angels,

I am not being a hypocrite. I am telling her not to use Greek if she doesnt know Greek. She is trying to prove a biblical point by referencing the Greek language but she clearly does not know the language. I do know Greek. I am not being a hypocrite. I am simplying saying that you shouldnt appeal to something in order to prove a biblical argument if you dont know anythign about it but pretend you are. I would not use Hebrew to make an arguement from the OT because I do not know Hebrew. A hypocrite is literally "an actor." I am not acting like I know Greek.

I have to run. I will respond to the second part of you question a bit later. Thanks.

101G · May 10, 2013

2 wormwood,
Actually the word deacon in the Greek is feminine.

I don't doubt you on that. the blue letter bible online have it as a noun, both masculine/feminine. but as for the Bishop it is feminine.
don't take this the wrong way. the point I'm making is this. THERE IS NO GREEK WORD FOR DEACONESS. it is minister, servant, or Deacon, but not deaconess. so the work of a DEACON is done by both males and females. but most men fail to see that this is a work, and not an office. and the qualification for this work have been misunderstood for years. the bible makes no mistakes. the Same Greek word for Deacon in 1 Timothy 3 is the exact same Greek word for "Servant", which or sister Phebe holds, as stated in Romans 16. now the contradiction is this, "TO OUR KNOWLEDGE". notice I said our knowledge. if our sister Phebe is in that position, which the bible clearly states she is. then my logic is this. find out why the apostle said that the G1248 διακονία diakonia (dee-ak-on-ee'-ah)/Deacon must be the husband of one wife?. and the scripture do not contradict themselves. so reason tells me I must re-examine what the apostle was saying. so, when I went back to follow the context of the scriptures. it clearly was talking to men who was married, but with more that one wife. for if one read the scriptures before this passage one can see he was talking to the MARRIED. supporting scripture, 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence". did you see it?. lets shine some light on it. notice he said, "But I suffer not a woman to teach". here's the revelation, "I suffer not "A", "A" "A" woman to teach. meaning here, a (1) person woman. notice he did not say, "I suffer women to teach". the "a" was the revealing word. for we have already pointed out that the word "woman" here is "WIFE". so clearly the Apostle was speaking of men who had more that "a", or ONE WIFE. and we know its a wife who he speaks of, scripture, verse 15a "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing". again "SHE", as in ONE WOMAN. not "THEY" will be save in Childbearing, but "SHE". question, what kind of woman legally have the right to bear Children?. that's right a "MARRIED WOMAN", better known as a "WIFE". so we can see from the context this is not talking about all women. nor is it for men only. but married men with more that one wife, which is to be exempt from this work. for a Bishop must set the example. and be blamess.

now, knowing that, our sister was a "SERVANT" unto the Lord. lets look at the word Servant and how it is used in scripture.
G1248 διακονία diakonia (dee-ak-on-ee'-ah) n.
1. attendance (as a servant, etc.)
2. (figuratively) charitable aid
3. (especially) official service of the Christian teacher
4. (technically) official service of the body of stewards (deacons)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister(-ing, -tration, -try), office, relief, service(-ing)
Root(s): G1249

the first use of it, I will bold and underline the word.
Luke 10:40 "But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me". I believe this is where most think that it is only a server, or helper. but notice the very next usage in scripture.

the Second usage,
Acts 1:15 "And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Here, the word is used as "ministry", and it is clearly associate with the Bishoprick. now this is a direct connection to the word that describe our sister Phebe, and the work she did. This is BIBLE.
I'll let some digestion settle in for now.

Polt · May 10, 2013

Wormwood said:
I am telling her not to use Greek if she doesnt know Greek.

You don't need to be fluent in Greek to take some clues from the Greek. And, even the best experts can dispute the meaning of words with each other. It's not so much knowing Greek as being willing to use some common sense with the Greek aids that we have.

101G · May 10, 2013

2 polt,
you are correct. and also thanks for being a man in steeping up to the plate on that abusive language of KJ. all women are #1. someone Mother, 2. Sister, or 3. relative.

Wormwood · May 10, 2013

Polt,

Actually, it can be a great problem when people start taking "clues" from Greek. Often knowing just a little Greek is worse than knowing none at all. Its like having a monkey with a hand grenade. Its better to either leave it alone or know a significant amount. People try to make theological assertions based on the Greek they think they know, when actually the little they know is causing them to make a great many claims based on a host of faulty assumptions and ideas.

101G,

I really dont see the point of having a discussion on Greek with you. You don't know how Greek works and so I feel like I have to write a chapter just to correct claims you are making and teach how the language actually works. I dont have time. However, I will say that it is quite possible that there is a word "deconess" in the NT. The word means "servant" as you mentioned, but can be referred as a title. When that title is feminine, it is very possible it is speaking of a female deacon, or "deaconness." However, just because a word in the Greek is masculine or feminine does not mandate that the object is feminine. Its just not that cut and dry in Greek. For instance, the Greek word for earth or land is feminine. This does not mean the land has a gender...its just that every Greek word carries a gender and sometimes that gender is meaningful and sometimes it is not. Moreover, there is no indefinite article in the Greek. The absence of a definite article does not mandate an indefinite article. However, it is clear that Paul is talking about the female gender. He does not permit a woman to speak. If he had a specific woman in mind he would have likely said in the Greek, "I do not permit the woman to teach." The definite article in Greek often indicates specificity. In any event, you are taking the English translation and trying to make assumptions based on that about the Greek words and how they were written. You should stick to discussing the content of the passage and stop trying to do word studies to prove your point.

Polt · May 10, 2013

101G said:
it is minister, servant, or Deacon, but not deaconess. so the work of a DEACON is done by both males and females. but most men fail to see that this is a work, and not an office. and the qualification for this work have been misunderstood for years. the bible makes no mistakes. the Same Greek word for Deacon in 1 Timothy 3 is the exact same Greek word for "Servant", which or sister Phebe holds, as stated in Romans 16.

The same word, deacon, is used of the waiters at the wedding where Jesus turned water into wine? Does that mean they're church deacons?

What are you arguing about? No one is against women helping out at church. The topic is female pastors, leaders.

You like the KJV, but you ignore that it does say there is an office of deacons. You ignore that the context of 1Tim3 is an office. Why would a mere servant need meet half the qualifications Paul lists for deacons? These qualities are obviously for leadership, which is also why Paul gives these qualifications right after he explains the qualifications for overseers. And, indeed, formal church deacons function as leaders, even in the Bible (e.g. Acts 6). How did Phoebe function as a leader? Not in any post do you tell us how.

101G · May 10, 2013

2 wormwood,
I really dont see the point of having a discussion on Greek with you. You don't know how Greek works and so I feel like I have to write a chapter just to correct claims you are making and teach how the language actually works. I dont have time. However, I will say that it is quite possible that there is a word "deconess" in the NT. The word means "servant" as you mentioned, but can be referred as a title. When that title is feminine, it is very possible it is speaking of a female deacon, or "deaconness." However, just because a word in the Greek is masculine or feminine does not mandate that the object is feminine. Its just not that cut and dry in Greek. For instance, the Greek word for earth or land is feminine. This does not mean the land has a gender...its just that every Greek word carries a gender and sometimes that gender is meaningful and sometimes it is not. Moreover, there is no indefinite article in the Greek. The absence of a definite article does not mandate an indefinite article. However, it is clear that Paul is talking about the female gender. He does not permit a woman to speak. If he had a specific woman in mind he would have likely said in the Greek, "I do not permit the woman to teach." The definite article in Greek often indicates specificity. In any event, you are taking the English translation and trying to make assumptions based on that about the Greek words and how they were written. You should stick to discussing the content of the passage and stop trying to do word studies to prove your point.
LOL, LOL, LOL. However, it is clear that Paul is talking about the female gender. He does not permit a woman to speak. If he had a specific woman in mind he would have likely said in the Greek, "I do not permit the woman to teach." I ask you wormwood, is the Greek word woman means every female y/n?

Wormwood · May 10, 2013

i would like to go back to 1 tim 3 which describes the requirements for bishop. first i would like to know if everyone of these requirements are necessary to become a bishop? if not why do we get so upset when women pastors don't meet all the qualifications? if we are to follow all the qualifications then jesus and paul would be disqualified because they were not married and i find it hard to believe that we would turn Jesus or paul away from that position. we cannot operate by 2 different standards because that is wrong.

7angels,

Im almost out of time but let me briefly reply. 1) These arent "requirements" but standards of character and life. So, no, someone does not have to have many kids (their children must be..) nor do they have to be married (husband of one wife). 2) The reason that this is significant is that Paul specifically prohibits women in the elder role. He leads up to talking about "elders" who must "be able to teach" by specifically prohibiting women from teaching. I think the teaching he has in mind is directly related to the teachign leadership of an elder. So yes, this does matter. This is not like saying, "well he doesnt have kids." Because clearly Paul is just giving indicators of godly character for one who does have children....these indicators would obvioulsy not be expected from someone without kids. However, when Paul says, "I do not permit a woman to teach" and directly afterward says, "an elder must be able to teach" the implication is quite obvious. The inspired author is directly prohibiting women elders. This isnt about not possessing a certain characteristic because one is not married..this is about going against a scriptural prohibition. Two entirely different issues.

101G · May 10, 2013

2 polt,
according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the Office of Bishop, listen, and look it up.
[ 2,,G1984, episkope ]
besides its meaning, "visitation," e.g., 1Pet 2:12 (cp. the Sept. of Exod 3:16; Isa 10:3; Jer 10:15), is rendered "office," in Acts 1:20, RV (AV, "bishoprick"); in 1Tim 3:1, "the office of a bishop," lit., "(if any one seeketh) overseership," there is no word representing office.

this is not 101G, this is Vine's Expository Dictionary

Wormwood · May 10, 2013

101G,

Lets just set the record straight. It seems clearly you are not after a scholarly dialogue in search of truth. You are on a campaign for an issue and are really not humbly seeking the truth. I have shown you what commentaries say. I have shown you what your own hermeneutics expert says. I have shown you that your Greek assertions are off base and display no knowledge of the Greek language and still you are coming across as very demeaning and angry. Unless you want to have a respectful discussion, I will limit my comments to other people on this board.

101G · May 10, 2013

2 wormwood,
Lets just set the record straight. It seems clearly you are not after a scholarly dialogue in search of truth. You are on a campaign for an issue and are really not humbly seeking the truth. I have shown you what commentaries say. I have shown you what your own hermeneutics expert says. I have shown you that your Greek assertions are off base and display no knowledge of the Greek language and still you are coming across as very demeaning and angry. Unless you want to have a respectful discussion, I will limit my comments to other people on this board.

that's fine, because you haven't said anything worth while yet. and that last respond to 7 angel is the lamest excuse I have ever seen. so see ya.

I have a question. did the apostle Paul serve tables?, meaning rendered aid to the poor?. or rendered aid/relief to the poor, or saints?.
Romans 15:25 "But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints".
the Greek word for this aid/relief worker is G1247 διακονέω diakoneo (dee-ak-on-eh'-o) v.
1. to be an attendant, to wait upon (menially or as a host, friend)
2. (figuratively) to serve as a teacher
3. (technically) to act as a Christian steward (deacon)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon
Root(s): G1249
Notice the ROOT word, yes G1249, which is translated as "deacon", "minister", "servant"
yet he was an apostle, prophet, pastor, overseer, and now in the role of DEACON, rendering relief or aide to the poor saint in Jerusalem. knowing this, the rendering of relief to the distress is nothing new. scripture, Acts 6:2 "Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables". now the light is beginning to shine. relief work was part of the work involved in the "MINISTRY". Stephen, serve tables, but yet Preached the GOSPEL, so did Philip. now how did our sister Phebe fit into this "Ministry". she was in the ministry also which gave relief, she preached the Gospel, and she was an overseer to the Chursh at Rome. she was a succourer.
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291

the feminine of a derivative of G4291, and G4291 was the "OVERSEER", BISHOP, PASTOR, the ELDER of the local Church.
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.
1. to stand before
2. (in rank) to preside
3. (by implication) to practise
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule

there it is "be over", "rule"
the key to this understanding is in three GREEK words

#1. G1247 διακονέω diakoneo (dee-ak-on-eh'-o) v.
1. to be an attendant, to wait upon (menially or as a host, friend)
2. (figuratively) to serve as a teacher
3. (technically) to act as a Christian steward (deacon)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon
Root(s): G1249

#2. G1248 διακονία diakonia (dee-ak-on-ee'-ah) n.
1. attendance (as a servant, etc.)
2. (figuratively) charitable aid
3. (especially) official service of the Christian teacher
4. (technically) official service of the body of stewards (deacons)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister(-ing, -tration, -try), office, relief, service(-ing)
Root(s): G1249

the two above words are root of this word.
#3. G1249 διάκονος diakonos (dee-ak'-on-os) n.
1. an attendant, a servant
2. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties)
3. (specially) a male Christian serving in a specific function and post (i.e. tending the widows and the poor, teaching, pastoring, etc)
[probably from an obsolete diako "to run on errands"]
KJV: deacon, minister, servant

Wormwood · May 11, 2013

101G,

One is a verb and one is a noun. Is it really this hard? Someone can manage something or someone without holding the title "manager." You don't seem to get the difference between an act and an office. Paul was an Apostle, which means "one sent." However if my wife "sends me out" to get milk, it doesn't make me an Apostle. Sigh.

101G · May 11, 2013

to wormwood
One is a verb and one is a noun. Is it really this hard? Someone can manage something or someone without holding the title "manager." You don't seem to get the difference between an act and an office. Paul was an Apostle, which means "one sent." However if my wife "sends me out" to get milk, it doesn't make me an Apostle. Sigh.

LOL, you can't understand either. yes an apostle is a sent one, who hold that title. but did he get milk also, yes. you don't get, you think just because you have a title, you're exempt from certain duties. just because you're a manager do not mean you can't sweep the floor also.

you keep forgetting, James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?. 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.7 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works".

so now that you have a title you can't do servitude work?, LOL.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 11, 2013

Wormwood said:
One is a verb and one is a noun. Is it really this hard?

Are you referring to the subject matter at hand... or his head?

101G · May 11, 2013

2 ChristRoseFromTheDead,
(smile), LOL, now you know that you are wrong for that, LOL putting his wife over him. LOL. that's a good one, LOL.

Oh well,

2 wormwood,
lets get this straight. #1. Phebe our sister was a deacon IN THE CHURCH, minister, or servant. that's a bible fact. #2. Deacons are to be the husband of one wife, that's a bible fact. here's the dilemma, Phebe was a female. so how is she going to have one wife?. are you prepared to go down the road of same sex marriages?. or the alternative is this, the scriptures is speaking to men who might have more that one wife. now if you go off the deep end as some have did, and say this is for married men only, then you deny the faith, and call the scriptures a lie. so which one is it?.

Greeting to all in the name of the Lord Jesus.

we have seen the actual work, or deed of the servant, minister, or the DEACON work, which is.
G1247 διακονέω diakoneo (dee-ak-on-eh'-o) v.
1. to be an attendant, to wait upon (menially or as a host, friend)
2. (figuratively) to serve as a teacher
3. (technically) to act as a Christian steward (deacon)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon
Root(s): G1249

now we will look at the actual person who do the work.
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries
G1248 διακονία diakonia (dee-ak-on-ee'-ah) n.
1. attendance (as a servant, etc.) * [take note of this word "servant"]
2. (figuratively) charitable aid
3. (especially) official service of the Christian teacher
KJV: (ad-)minister(-ing, -tration, -try), office, relief, service(-ing)
Root(s): G1249
this is the actual doing of the work, or the use of the office.
Thayer's Greek Definitions
1) service, ministering, esp. of those who execute the commands of others
2) of those who by the command of God proclaim and promote religion among men
a) of the office of Moses
B) of the office of the apostles and its administration
c) of the office of prophets, evangelists, elders etc.
3) the ministration of those who render to others the offices of Christian affection esp. those who help meet need by either collecting or distributing of charities
4) the office of the deacon in the church
5) the service of those who prepare and present food

scripture:
Acts 1:25 "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles".
Barnes Commentary: Verse 25. That he may take part of this ministry. The word rendered --κληρον--is the same which in the next verse is rendered lots. It properly means a lot, or portion; the portion divided to a man, or assigned to him by casting lots; and also the instrument or means by which the lot is made. The former is its meaning here; the office, or portion of apostolic work which would fall to him by taking the place of Judas.
Ministry and apostleship. This is an instance of the figure of speech hendiadys, when two words are used to express one thing. It means the apostolic ministry.

now that was interesting, and so is this.

Acts 6:2 "Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables".

apparently the twelve was serving tables, that's plain and clear. now what gets me is this, if the twelve was serving tables, what was the reason to give full attention to the word of God. one answer could be?, an increase in membership of the body?. I'm not buying that. here's my reason why. if the 7 chosen serve tables, and yet they preached the gospel, also, so the increase in members don't fly. because it was twelve before, now seven doing the same JOB, even with an increase, no. my opinion is this. just as the apostle say, to give themselves to the word of God, (preaching), but not exempt from it. the apostle Paul proved that out. he was not exempt from it. just as he said, "the Lord did not send him to baptize, but he did baptize. he was not exempt from it. but the apostle, in acts 6 was to give themselves to the word of God, and not leave it totally. but what's interesting is what they say they will do. Acts 6:4 "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. this word "ministry is the Greek word, G1248 διακονία diakonia (dee-ak-on-ee'-ah) n.
1. attendance (as a servant, etc.)
2. (figuratively) charitable aid
3. (especially) official service of the Christian teacher
4. (technically) official service of the body of stewards (deacons)
[from G1249]
KJV: (ad-)minister(-ing, -tration, -try), office, relief, service(-ing)
Root(s): G1249

this is the PERSON who preach the Gospel. so Thayer's Greek Definitions hit it on the head when it said, definition #2.
2) of those who by the command of God proclaim and promote religion among men
a) of the office of Moses
B) of the office of the apostles and its administration
c) of the office of prophets, evangelists, elders etc.

Now, knowing this. I always wondered why the translators used the word "SERVANT" in Roman 16:1 to identify our sister Phebe, instead of the same word "DEACON". it means the same, right?. or do it?. here's my OPINION, and only my opinion. Deacon served tables, Servants the same word "PREACH THE GOSPEL". here's my reasoning, the apostle Paul was a servant, as well as James, Peter, and the rest. now what is a servant, we are speaking spiritually, it's the Greek word, G32 ἄγγελος aggelos (ang'-el-os) n.
1. a messenger
2. (especially) an "angel" of God
3. (of evil, Satan) a demon
4. (by implication) a person carrying forth a message from God, i.e. a servant (a disciple, pastor, elder, prophet, etc.)
5. (also, by implication) a thing or event carrying forth a message from God, i.e. a hardship (pestilence, wind, etc.), or an animal (donkey, locusts, etc.))
[from aggello "to bring tidings" (possibly derived from G71)]
KJV: angel, messenger
Compare: G34
See also: G71
THERE IT IS, A "SERVANT" IS A PERSON WHO CARRIES GOD MESSAGE. (side note. as in the book of revelation stars are not angels, but Holy Men and Women who carry God word).
so by definition, our sister Phebe is a carrier of God word, "SERVANT", just as the apostle said in acts 6:4 " But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word". they are to be SERVANT to the WORD of GOD. so our sister was a "MINISTER". a "SERVANT" of the Lord, who service was to preach the gospel. Romans 16:1 " I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea". and take note she is the equivalent of the Male in the same position,G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee). an "Overseer", "Bishop", "Pastor".

.
this close the case, for me. now, I'll entertain any other possible views, but have scripture and word definition to make your point.

be blessed

Wormwood · May 11, 2013

101G, that argument might make sense if Paul didn't prohibit women from teaching and make teaching a requirement for elders. "I do not permit a woman to teach." "An elder must be able to teach." You can dance around the marriage thing all you want but this is about as plain as it gets.

101G · May 11, 2013

2 wormwood,
101G, that argument might make sense if Paul didn't prohibit women from teaching and make teaching a requirement for elders. "I do not permit a woman to teach." "An elder must be able to teach." You can dance around the marriage thing all you want but this is about as plain as it gets.

but it do make sense, because the apostle Paul was talking about wives. look at the word woman in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence". so if the word translate wife, then my point is made.

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