Actually that is not true, your source was the bible, if it was the "word of God", than it would of being from God, or Jesus or the Holy Spirit.s the word of God.
In all His Love
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Actually that is not true, your source was the bible, if it was the "word of God", than it would of being from God, or Jesus or the Holy Spirit.s the word of God.
101G said:Question, "Can a Pastor to the body of Christ, (the church), be female/woman?”. notice the language I'm using. Pastor to the Body, (the church).
Introduction: Here we are in the year 2013. this topic have has been debated, argued, misused, and we have even slandered the Good name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the world to see. I fear the Lord very much, and he has chosen me to speak on this topic, and he have also given more insight for this subject at hand. by the Grace given unto me, now I share this insight with you.
To all who are called, beloved of God, and now Sons of the Living God, Greeting from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In taking this task, which I do gladly. for the purpose of giving foundation scripture, (information, knowledge), for all to use, and to stand on in regards to Pastors who happens to be Female. The scriptures have been before our face and on our lips all the time, but hidden, until now. yes, Joel 2:28 & 29, that's the verse. but to see the revelation clearly I'll use 4 other book of the Holy Bible. I'll walk you through this, step by step. So don't jump ahead, or get any per-conclusion. to some this will be nothing new to them. but now the scriptural reference is presented for all to see. in other words we now have scripture to stand on.
Foundation Scripture: Matthew 9:37 "Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few. 38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest”.
Teaching Scriptures: Old Testament: Jeremiah 3:15, Joel 2:28 & 29.
New Testament: Ephesian 4:11-15, Acts 2:1-4, Act 2:16-18, 1 Corinthians 12-4-11.
First, a question, are pastors a. called, b. sent, or c. given. we're talking about pastors. if you were called, and or put into the ministry to preach, good, then you're a preacher. I'm talking about PASTORS here. because all Pastors are not preachers, and all preachers are not Pastors. the correct answer is c, "given". lets see it. starting with, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". here we see in the old testament pastors are given, what about the new testament?.
Ephesian 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
what for?. verse 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
Now we know what Pastors are given for, in this context. Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". remembering I'm talking about "PASTORING". onto to Joel 2:28 & 29. verse 28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy*, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit".
I have underlined the word prophesy, servant, and handmaid, which I'll explain later, see the end of this post for word definition .
we have a promise from God according to the prophet Joel. And this promise was fulfilled at Pentecost, now, onto Acts 2:1-4 the fulfilling.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Apostles are speaking in other tongues. hold that thought. forward to Acts 2:16
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (here the apostle Peter is clearly identifying that what is happening here at Pentecost, this is that which was spoke/foretold by the prophet Joel).
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy*. this is the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29 on the day of Pentecost.
Question, if this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel in verse 4 of the book of acts chapter 2, and confirmed in verse 16. then I have a question?. why is the Apostle Peter preaching in other tongues. is there anything in Joel 2:28 that say anything about speaking in other tongues?, or did it?. lets look a little closer, with wisdom from God. what is listed in Joel 2:28 & 29, can you agree, that, #1. prophesy, 2. dream, 3. visions, are mention, correct?. so why are they, (the apostle), speaking with other tongues then?. remember Peter stated that this is that spoken by the prophet Joel. Well here is the answer: Act 2:4 “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”. so now we can see why Peter was speaking in other tongues. it was the gift of the Holy Spirit that did it.
Question, what are the gifts of the Holy Spirit?. are his gifts only limited to 3 mention in Joel 2:28. prophesy, dream, and visions. remember, Peter said, “this is that”, which was spoken by the prophet Joel. scripture cannot lie, or be broken. lets look at the Gifts of the Spirit.
1 Corinthians Chapter 12, verses 4-11
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; (stop is not this that Peter spoke of. yes!. lets go on), to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
now look at verse 8 of chapter 12 here in 1 Corinthians. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. now what is a word of wisdom**, notice, the scriptures did not say what is wisdom, but the word of wisdom. it means understanding, see the definitions below at the end of this topic. Now, we have the gifts of knowledge and the gift of understanding. lets look again at what God said in Jeremiah 3:15, again. "And I will give, (gift), you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". there you have it. Pastoring is a gift of God, a work of God. what is this work?, the ministering gifts listed in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, (see above). the person who receive these gifts, or gift, is not being sent, but receive the Gift of God to empower people with knowledge and understanding to do a work. and what is that work?,see Ephesian 4:11- again. and what did God say Jer 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". Pastors are to feed the flock of God. The person is not the pastor, but the Spirit that is in them is the pastor, it is the gift of God, the Holy Spirit who dose the work.
Now that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been establish. the connection between the gifts promised in Joel and the realization of their use in Acts chapter 2 and theirs listing in 1 Corinthians 12 is confirmed. now what's left to understand is how do the female come into play with these gifts. since the Apostle Peter stated that, "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" , Question, who qualify for these Gifts. lets see, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions": There it is, both men, (Sons), and women, (daughters). this is called being filled with the Holy Spirit. and the Holy Spirit/Gift is for all, including males as well as females. For God is no respector of person. the scriptures states, Daughters, seem like that's a female to me. and the scripture cannot be broken. but wait, who else?. also upon the servants and upon the handmaids. again, a servant also, (male and female), now to the book of Romans Chapter 16 verse 1. I commend unto you Phebe our sister (female), which is a servant (go back to Joel 2:29, "also upon the servants and upon the handmaids"), Phebe our sister, a servent of the church which is at Cenchrea. if I'm not mistaken Phebe is a female, and a servant of the church, not outside the church. but there are many others females who are preachers, teachers, ministry workers. just read the New Testament”.
So, can a female be a Pastor?, YES, I have given you scripture, plain and clear. Scripture cannot lie.
She can also teach, and preach. This kinda shoot the old saying, “not in my pulpit”, well, who pulpit is it anyway. is the Godhead BRICK, & MORTAR, no he's Living, and we have our being in him, and not in us.
Now some word power.
Old Testament
* Prophesy this is a Hebrew word, H5012 נָבָא naba' (naw-baw') v.
1. to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse)
[a primitive root]
KJV: prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet.
discourse-noun 1. communication of thought by words; talk; conversation: earnest and intelligent discourse.
2. a formal discussion of a subject in speech or writing, as a dissertation, treatise, sermon, etc.
3. Linguistics . any unit of connected speech or writing longer than a sentence.
-verb (used without object)
4. to communicate thoughts orally; talk; converse.
5. to treat of a subject formally in speech or writing.
-verb (used with object)
6. to utter or give forth (musical sounds).
Now the New Testament
Noun, G4394, propheteia
signifies the speaking forth of the mind and counsel of God" (pro, "forth," phemi, "to speak: in the NT it is used (a) of the gift. ( B) either of the exercise of the gift or of that which is "prophesied.
"Though much of OT prophecy was purely predictive. prophecy is not necessarily, nor even primarily, fore-telling. It is the declaration of that which cannot be known by natural means". it is the forth-telling of the will of God, whether with reference to the past, the present, or the future. Supportive scripture, Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it". Alright, since John, the kingdom is preach, not foretold, because he and the kingdom is here now, no more need to tell about it coming, because it's here, it have come. Now the commission is to tell of it, preach, or proclaim, that's the good news, called the gospel.
so from the definition we see that Prophesy, is not limited to telling the future, but to speak the mind of God, in layman terms, preaching. all these years where ignorant men boycotted "Holy" called women from their pulpits, just imagine how may souls could have been saved with women preaching. Matt 9:37 "Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few. 38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest". That prayer is answered.
as in another topic about Spiritual Maturity, we will see who is a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, or a disciple indeed. a big diffidence.
but as our Lord said to his disciple, "will you leave too?".
**Word of Wisdom means understanding. Or Prudence. A, “word of Wisdom is understanding. See definition below.
Wisdom or Prudence:
Wisdom: [ 2,,G5428, phronesis ]
"understanding, prudence," i.e., a right use of phren, "the mind," is translated "wisom" in Luke 1:17. See PRUDENCE.
Note: "While sophia is the insight into the true nature of things, phronesis is the ability to discern modes of action with a view to their results; while sophia is theoretical, phronesis is practical" (Lightfoot). Sunesis, "understanding, intelligence," is the critical faculty; this and phronesis are particular applications of sophia.
Prudence: [ A-1,Noun,G5428, phronesis ]
akin to phroneo, to have understanding" (phren, "the mind"), denotes "practical wisdom, prudence in the management of affairs." It is translated "wisdom" in Luke 1:17; "prudence" in Eph 1:8. See WISDOM.
Prudence: [ A-2,Noun,G4907, sunesis ]
"understanding," is rendered "prudence" in 1Cor 1:19, RV (AV, "understanding"); it suggests quickness of apprehension, the penetrating consideration which precedes action. Cp. B, in the same verse. See KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING.
If you would note Wisdom and Prudence have the same Greek word. So a word of Wisdom means understanding. Hence, in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 verse 8 is the Pastoral Gift.
Now we see who is a disciple, and who is a disciple indeed?.
I hope this may help.
Love and Peace
101G
Oh you mean what the bible says. Have you ever asked God what He thinhs. Do you know the bible isnt God, neither is teh bible above God, have you ever gone to jesus to ask Hm. God usd an ass, how much more is a women to Him than an ass. Have you not read " there is none male or female in teh spirit". But us being of the flesh fail to comprehend teh things of God.
Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Do you know teh Disciples where Jews coming out from the old and tradition to a new thing, and brought lots of bagage with them.
Christ was for ever correcting them they where human like us.
Act_2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
Let God do what He does best and stop hindering Him.
In all His Love
God never told me nothing of teh sort. Have you even read it,1 Tim. 2:12 because God told you so?
What you're saying then is that the Bible is not "God inspired", and that the Bible is not the word of God. His word is unchanging, He is unchanging. If the Bible gives an outline for church leadership, and family leadership (which is does), then it is inspired by God and worthy of being followed. God is the one who wrote it, so it is worthy of being followed. Otherwise you're saying that God made a mistake.You have to decide who is your God, God or teh bible, they are not one and teh same.
In short, the verses you're referencing are referring to the "oneness" of the church. Not its authority, or who is to be in authority. you can't use the fact that there are no "male or female spirits" to dictate authority of the physical church here on earth, because none of the verses you are referencing talk about the authority of the church directly before them, or after them within the same chapter.26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
So let me get this straight...you are quoting the Bible as evidence that it is not entirely true. God didn't give the Holy Spirit because the Bible is insufficient to inform us of the truth. He gave the Holy Spirit to bring inner transformation and renewal to our lives...to help us live holy and godly lives through the power of the Spirit, rather than power of the flesh.
its the reason why forums exist, if the bible was true on every account and given by the Holy Spirirt there would be nought to question,
How does one argue the truth.
So now we really know what mjrhealth think about the authority and inspiration of scripture. Since its source in (his/her) eyes is not from God, I'm surprised (he/she) is a Christian at all. Especially since they can no longer use anything in the Bible to prove that anything about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is true or real.Actually that is not true, your source was the bible, if it was the "word of God", than it would of being from God, or Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He gave the Holy Spirit to bring inner transformation and renewal to our lives...to help us live holy and godly lives through the power of the Spirit, rather than power of the flesh.
I have come to Jesus. So now you are judge over me because I hold to the teaching of the Bible rather than your own personal musings?As Jesus said " in the bible"
But you wont come to me so I can give you life.
I don't have time to give you an intro to the Bible course on here (nor is this the proper forum). The Bible is trustworthy, and its teaching on women in leadership is clear...I'll leave it at that.Read the three different accounts of Christs resurrection , which one is correct.