A message for those of you expecting to go to heaven

evangelist-7 said:

Holiness is required

“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

“… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)

“… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)

More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8

Perfection is required

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

“But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete …” (James 1:4, NKJV)

“… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

More verses: John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:3-4, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 10:1

This is only your reasonable service
“I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God,
to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties]
as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God,
which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.” (Romans 12:1, Amp)

Describing Jesus’ church
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing … holy and without blemish.”
(Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

How to be part of it
If you have been born-again …
you have the Holy Spirit inside of you to help you become an overcomer.
The Holy Spirit is trying to purify you through His sanctification process.

You have the free will to choose
-- to be obedient to the Scriptures
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
-- to be sanctified unto holiness and perfection

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WOW...I'm a dead duck. Are you sure those scriptures are talking about now, today? I hope you're wrong. Jesus said even he was not good. If you're right...both you and me are dead ducks.
Mark 10:18

aspen2 said:

It is interesting to me that the Bible says nothing about asking Jesus into our hearts - instead Jesus talks about God bringing His Kingdom into our hearts. It seems to me that if we are stuck in doctrine and refusing to live like Christ by serving God and neighbor in love - the Kingdom has not been delivered yet and we need to be in prayer Thy Kingdom Come; Thy Will Be Done, On Earth As It Is In Heaven.

If the Kingdom of God is not present in our hearts now - how can we assume we will be present in His Kingdom after death? Jesus told us Christians are known by their fruit. Our fruit is living out the Kingdom of God in our hearts by loving God and neighbor in all circumstances.

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Luke 17:21 behold the Kingdom of God is within you! bytheway, Jesus was very aggessive with the religious ones...

We Christians do have a code of conduct which we are to live by. But it is a code of conduct which we can only gain the ability to follow as a direct result of our accepting the gift of salvation exactly as God offers it:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

It is only through our accepting the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the means of cleansing us of our sins that we have assurance of salvation. This cannot be augmented, nor can it be replaced by anything else we might do. God accepts only the blood of his Son, Jesus Christ, as the perfect atonement for our sinfulness. Everything else must begin here.

Upon our accepting the gift of salvation as God offers it, God sends his Spirit to dwell within us, and it is this bonding of his Spirit with us that enables us to conduct ourselves in accordance with his will. And that is due not to our becoming legalistic; that not only didn't work before, but also was abused by those whose desire was to have absolute power over others. Instead, we are given the spiritual equivalent of a heart transplant, with our old nature being subdued by the Spirit while a new nature is implanted within us. And it is only with this new nature that we can conduct ourselves as God wants of us:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

The motivations listed as 'the acts of the sinful nature' are the underlying origin of all sinful acts. No action which has any of these motivations as its impetus can be seen as anything other than sinful, just as a poisoned tree cannot yield good fruit. But they are also the motivations which are at the core of our original, sinful nature, and as such are as much a part of us as our eye color. So we need for the Spirit himself to 'rein them in' rather than accomplishing this task ourselves. And this the Spirit does willingly as a result of our accepting Jesus' sacrifice as the atonement for our sins.

But not only does the Spirit 'rein in' our sinful nature, but he also implants within us a new nature. This new nature is 'the fruit of the Spirit', and has its own set of motivations. It is when these motivations are the impetus for what we do, and only then, that our actions have assurance of aligning with God's will. It's not enough for us to do the right things; we must also do them for the right reasons. And it is when the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit' are the origin of our actions that those actions have the right reasons as their impetus. The supreme importance of the 9 'fruit' to us is emphasized by the words which immediately follow their listing: "Against such things there is no law."

evangelist-7 said:

Another possible way to view this is ...
IF you truly do have SAVING FAITH,
you will repent (feeling great sorrow and desire to change) of your sins daily!
This is the victory of the overcomer ... because the Holy Spirit will help you to overcome!

I am struggling now with the possibility that ...
Are all of the many dozens of warnings in the epistles to church-goers who are NOT BACs?
And they certainly don't do any harm to the true BACs.
Of course, there are a couple of warnings that really seem to target the true BACs.
What do you think?

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Born again Christians? Is that who you mean with that abbreviation?

Once one who believes on our Lord Jesus and is baptized in His Name, then who actually knows for sure who all fits that born again idea? Only our Heavenly Father and His Son know for sure. Isn't that the point anyway, that we must seek to please Him, and not man? It all applies to us believers equally.

The Holy Spirit manifests to each believer according to the administrations Apostle Paul gave. My experience by The Holy Spirit was not manifested with some overwhelming feeling, nor speaking in tongues, nor some outward spiritual sign. I have always been a believer, just not baptized in Christ Jesus' Name until I turned 40. The Holy Spirit manifested to me by opening up my mind in understanding in His Word, an understanding I'd often sought for but had always defaulted instead to man's ideas of religion prior to that but with doubts that a lot more was not being covered. Now that was overwhelming, an urge to go in-depth within God's Word, chapter by chapter line upon line. I could not have stopped that urge if I had wanted to. And once I reached a point in my Bible study, I was sent to other believers that needed help in searching The Scriptures, their often admitting to me they knew God had sent me, since they had asked Him for study help in His Word.

During that period of great urge, while in my Bible study sessions, memories of places overseas where I had traveled started popping into my mind that were directly related to some of the places I was studying in His Word.

Harry3142 said:

We Christians do have a code of conduct which we are to live by. But it is a code of conduct which we can only gain the ability to follow as a direct result of our accepting the gift of salvation exactly as God offers it:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

It is only through our accepting the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the means of cleansing us of our sins that we have assurance of salvation. This cannot be augmented, nor can it be replaced by anything else we might do. God accepts only the blood of his Son, Jesus Christ, as the perfect atonement for our sinfulness. Everything else must begin here.

Upon our accepting the gift of salvation as God offers it, God sends his Spirit to dwell within us, and it is this bonding of his Spirit with us that enables us to conduct ourselves in accordance with his will. And that is due not to our becoming legalistic; that not only didn't work before, but also was abused by those whose desire was to have absolute power over others. Instead, we are given the spiritual equivalent of a heart transplant, with our old nature being subdued by the Spirit while a new nature is implanted within us. And it is only with this new nature that we can conduct ourselves as God wants of us:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

The motivations listed as 'the acts of the sinful nature' are the underlying origin of all sinful acts. No action which has any of these motivations as its impetus can be seen as anything other than sinful, just as a poisoned tree cannot yield good fruit. But they are also the motivations which are at the core of our original, sinful nature, and as such are as much a part of us as our eye color. So we need for the Spirit himself to 'rein them in' rather than accomplishing this task ourselves. And this the Spirit does willingly as a result of our accepting Jesus' sacrifice as the atonement for our sins.

But not only does the Spirit 'rein in' our sinful nature, but he also implants within us a new nature. This new nature is 'the fruit of the Spirit', and has its own set of motivations. It is when these motivations are the impetus for what we do, and only then, that our actions have assurance of aligning with God's will. It's not enough for us to do the right things; we must also do them for the right reasons. And it is when the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit' are the origin of our actions that those actions have the right reasons as their impetus. The supreme importance of the 9 'fruit' to us is emphasized by the words which immediately follow their listing: "Against such things there is no law."

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All good and correct, except for one thing you're passing over. New Testament Scripture reveals the concept of falling away from Christ, which in essence means cutting off the walk by The Spirit. Apostle Paul gave the condition there, you covered it. IF... we are led by The Spirit, then... we are not under the law. The reason is because there is no law against the good works of walking by The Spirit.

Moreover, in more of a practical aspect, one can see how many of God's laws were established in the Christian west per history to handle those who instead choose to walk by their flesh. That was not established by non-believers on Christ, it was established early on by the Christians in the historical Christian nations through civil and criminal law (no, I'm not Jewish).

The fact that our Lord Jesus is the True Author of that establishing even for the Christian nations of history, reveals what that Apostle Paul was saying there in Galatians 5, 1 Timonthy 1, and 1 Corinthians 6 about the ungodly and unrighteous? That's established so those of us who do... walk by The Spirit can have peace in our lands.

This is truly a simple matter concerning Christ's Salvation and our walk in Faith by The Spirit. The attacks within the field of theology on this is simple also. Like the prophet Daniel was shown, in the latter days the false one would try to change the times and the laws (Dan.7:25). They are not ONLY trying to remove the idea that a believer can be guilty of those sins of the flesh which Paul said would keep one out of God's Kingdom, but they are also trying to change the laws... established by the Christian nations from God's Word that specifically dealt with those unrighteous things.

Also, if it's OK for a believer to be found doing that walk by the flesh Paul interated in Gal.5 while claiming to be a born-again Christian free from sin, then that would mean Christ has concord with Belial (2 Cor.6:14-18).

evangelist-7 said:

Yes, BACs ... not ABCs.

What do think about Paul saying ...
[SIZE=11pt]“Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Scripture says we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]But, I don't classify being obedient to God's commands as doing works.[/SIZE]

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It's kind of like I said before, wherever one's heart is, that's the kind of works that will manifest. Works have to manifest from each person, regardless of what they believe. That's where the connection is with Christ's Salvation; a true believer on Him by Faith will have works in Him, can't prevent it. But one is only saved by His Grace and not those works. Still, one cannot separate those works from their Faith that saves them. They go hand in hand. We either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make it corrupt and its fruit corrupt, for the tree is known by its fruit (Matt.12:33).

As for what Paul said in 1 Cor.1:17, that goes with his correction he was making upon those at Corinth that were busy playing religion (1 Cor.1:11-15). Acts 9:15 shows what Christ chose and sent Apostle Paul to do, baptisms weren't included, although Paul also served the role of Evangelist. But in 1 Cor.1 he's speaking in a shameful sense because of their contentions. Pretty strong rebuke to say something like, "I'm glad I baptized none you (except...), otherwise you'd be saying I baptized in my own name!" (1 Cor.1:14-15).

evangelist-7 said:

Another possible way to view this is ...
IF you truly do have SAVING FAITH,
you will repent (feeling great sorrow and desire to change) of your sins daily!
This is the victory of the overcomer ... because the Holy Spirit will help+
you to overcome!

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply. My fist response is to inform you that repentance is most simply defined as a a change of mind. It comes from two Greek root words: "meta" (change), and "noya" (mind). Therefore I don't agree with your viewpoint of repentance. The bible says that godly sorrow produces repentance. How then can repentance itself be sorrow if it is produced by sorrow?

As well, repentance does not necessarily apply to sin. One can repent of unbelief. In fact there is no place in scripture where repentance from sin is given as a requirement for life. People see the word 'repentance' and automatically assume it means to repent of sin, based on a faulty definition in their mind. The act of acknowledging sin and turning to Jesus for forgiveness, is a form of repentance. It takes a change of mind.

In fact, people are also doing the same with the word "overcome", by applying it to having personal victory over sin when no context in scripture is doing that.
I can agree in principle that we profit when we overcome sin, but we have no place changing the application of that word in the bible. Jesus overcame sin on our behalf. We overcome by faith, as John said. And as well, by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony (Rev.12:11). Or do we now presume that we have license to change the bible?

Therefore, when we see Rom.10:9,10 reveal how salvation is acquired, and no repentance mentioned in it, then the context itself will tell us what needs repenting from. There is a repentance required (change of mind,or heart). So if one is required to believe in his heart to be saved, then unbelief is automatically that which needs repenting from.

We are told that Jesus is the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. He takes away our sin through the new birth. The new man is made righteous and holy (Eph.4:24). He died for sin (the wages of sin is death). So then, the work of removing sin is totally done by Jesus. To say that our cooperation is also part of it, is just another way of adding works to faith for salvation.

Works come from salvation. Therefore works cannot cause salvation. Neither can works keep one saved. However, when talking of works, we are talking of fruit, not the least of which, is love. Abstaining from sin is a whole other category. By including it in the 'works' category, we bring the law into play. And Paul has a whole letter to the Galatians in regards to that folly.

In conclusion, I think that some people need to change their mind about the role we play in getting saved. We do not save ourselves. Jesus is the Savior. When some try to take on His role, do they not flirt with the original sin of Lucifer, who wanted to sit on the throne of God? Eternal life is something we receive. Salvation is something we receive, not DO. Faith is the receiving of it. Grace is the giving of it.

aspen2 said:

It is interesting to me that the Bible says nothing about asking Jesus into our hearts - instead Jesus talks about God bringing His Kingdom into our hearts. It seems to me that if we are stuck in doctrine and refusing to live like Christ by serving God and neighbor in love - the Kingdom has not been delivered yet and we need to be in prayer Thy Kingdom Come; Thy Will Be Done, On Earth As It Is In Heaven.
If the Kingdom of God is not present in our hearts now - how can we assume we will be present in His Kingdom after death? Jesus told us Christians are known by their fruit. Our fruit is living out the Kingdom of God in our hearts by loving God and neighbor in all circumstances.

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Amen

A Christian has made a covenant with God.

A Christian can break this covenant with God, and the NT clearly teaches how this can happen. God will never break the covenant, God will never leave us nor forsake us, Jesus will always be our advocat befor The Lord when we sin and repent....but we can forsake God

A Christians definition of holiness does not come from worldly wisdom, but from Jesus, we are to be holy as Jesus is holy.

We must obey the commandments Jesus gave us, to love God with our whole heart and mind, to love our neighbors as ourselves and when we don't we must repent. We must keep our lamps full, and our garments white....how? with the help of the Holy Spirit who convicts the believer.

Rev. 3

3 “Write this letter to the angel of the church in Sardis. This is the message from the one who has the sevenfold Spirit of God and the seven stars:

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead.

I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God

. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly.

Repent and turn to me again.

If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white.

I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

Ruth said:

All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

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Which suggests that those who are not victorious will have their names blotted out from the book of life.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Which suggests that those who are not victorious will have their names blotted out from the book of life.

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Agreed

Ruth said:

Amen

A Christian has made a covenant with God.

A Christian can break this covenant with God, and the NT clearly teaches how this can happen. God will never break the covenant, God will never leave us nor forsake us, Jesus will always be our advocat befor The Lord when we sin and repent....but we can forsake God

A Christians definition of holiness does not come from worldly wisdom, but from Jesus, we are to be holy as Jesus is holy.

We must obey the commandments Jesus gave us, to love God with our whole heart and mind, to love our neighbors as ourselves and when we don't we must repent. We must keep our lamps full, and our garments white....how? with the help of the Holy Spirit who convicts the believer.

Rev. 3

3 “Write this letter to the angel of the church in Sardis. This is the message from the one who has the sevenfold Spirit of God and the seven stars:

“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead.

I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God

. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly.

Repent and turn to me again.

If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.

4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white.

I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

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I would like to know which translation this is from. It is not the same message that I find in the NKJ. In that translation, in vs.1, Jesus says that "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." In vs. 2, He states that He has not found their works perfect before God. It does not say that the works do not meet God's requirements, as in the above quote. Then in vs. 3, He says to remember how they have received and heard, and to hold fast and repent. We do not have insight as they did in Sardis, as to what Jesus was referring to. But this we know, that they were called dead. Did they have works? Yes, but the works were not perfect.

So just what is it that can render someone dead in Jesus' eyes, even though they have works? And what is it that makes our garments white?

I can make a few suggestions from scripture. The lukewarm church was told to buy from Jesus white garments, that the shame of their nakedness may not be revealed. How? He stood at the door and knocked. He offered to come into them and dine with them (fellowship). The indwelling presence of God is what makes our garments white. In Rev.1:5 we are told that His blood has washed us from our sins. In Rev.7:9-13 John had asked who these were whom he saw standing before the throne with white robes, a great multitude that no one could number. In vs.14 the answer came..."These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".

We know that the blood of Jesus has washed us and made our robes white. But this is not automatic. It happens by faith in Him. And by faith in Him we are given life. This is promised in John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:50,51, and many more passages in the new testament. So who is considered dead? Obviously they who have not received life by faith.

There are those who keep quoting James by saying faith without works is dead,in doing so implying many things that James was not implying. Be that as it may, even worse, if one was to have works without faith, the works would not only be dead, but also the person would be dead. Jesus told the Sardis church to remember how they had received. How do we receive? By faith.

So here is a warning that I have been giving out on this website: Be mindful of what is motivating you. Our motives will be examined. If we are doing works, or even abstaining from sin, because we think this is what is going to save us, then we are fallen from grace. Paul warned the Galatians that through their attempt to be justified by the law, Christ had become of no effect.
Do you want to defile your garments? Try making them white apart from the blood of the Lamb.

I would take a guess from what we know in scripture, that Sardis had fallen the same way that the Galatians had, and were doing all the right things for the wrong reasons. Thus their works were not perfect before God. One of the foundations mentioned in Heb.6:1, is repentance from dead works and faith toward God. In other words, they turned from works, to faith, for justification. Going back the other way would spell death. Works for justification are dead works.

We are justified by faith. Our garments are made white by faith. We are given life by faith. The most severe warning we can find to the believer is from Paul, who told the Galatians that they had fallen from grace and Christ had become of no effect. But this was not because of sin, nor was it because of inferior works. It was because they were attempting to justify themselves before God by their law keeping...by what they do. Its all in the motivation.

1John 5:4...." For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-OUR FAITH".

williemac said:

I would like to know which translation this is from. It is not the same message that I find in the NKJ.

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New Living Translation.

If you ever want to know in the future, just copy a portion of the text (a sentence usually does it) and paste it into a search engine enclosed in double quotes.

That is some nice stuff you wrote. I think part of the key to understanding the message to the Sardis assembly is Jesus' statement that they had a name that they lived, but were dead. In my mind that reads that they were taking pride and putting confidence in the name they had among men, and not fully trusting in GOD. In other words, they were receiving glory and honor from men instead of GOD:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only? John 5:43-44

Your comment, 'Jesus told the Sardis church to remember how they had received. How do we receive? By faith.' brought this to my remembrance:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Colossians 2:6-7

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

New Living Translation.

If you ever want to know in the future, just copy a portion of the text (a sentence usually does it) and paste it into a search engine enclosed in double quotes.

That is some nice stuff you wrote. I think part of the key to understanding the message to the Sardis assembly is Jesus' statement that they had a name that they lived, but were dead. In my mind that reads that they were taking pride and putting confidence in the name they had among men, and not fully trusting in GOD. In other words, they were receiving glory and honor from men instead of GOD:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only? John 5:43-44

Your comment, 'Jesus told the Sardis church to remember how they had received. How do we receive? By faith.' brought this to my remembrance:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Colossians 2:6-7

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Thanks for the tip. I am not impressed with the New Living Translation. I have seen many unfortunate interpretations in it. It should not even be called a translation in my opinion.
Nice reply as well. Some in the Sardis church had defiled their robes. Some people say that this is done with sin. This is impossible. That is like saying soap is defiled by dirt. We receive the robe through faith in the blood. The blood of the Lamb washes sin. How can sin defile the thing that is used to wash it away? But rendering the blood ineffective will certainly defile the white robe. Falling from faith will do just that. Paul told Timothy some would depart from the faith in the latter days (1Tim.4:1). He never indicated they will depart from Jesus, or from the church, but from the faith.

As well, with Sardis, works are that which is mentioned as the culprit, not sin. But they were not called insufficient by Jesus. That was not the problem. Our works are done as a result of having received. If one does works for the purpose of receiving, then adding this to faith is called leaven. And a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Leaven defiles.

The NKJ is one do the poorest translation, if your looking for a more word to word translation you should read from the NAS OR RSVP .

Any translation clearly teaches keep your garment white, and your lamp full, always be ready for Christ return, or you will be left behind just like the 5 bride braids

Matthew 25

6 “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’

7 “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. 8 Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’

9 “But the others replied, ‘We don’t have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. 11 Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’

12 “But he called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’

13 “So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return.

Ruth said:

The NKJ is one do the poorest translation, if your looking for a more word to word translation you should read from the NAS OR RSVP .

Any translation clearly teaches keep your garment white, and your lamp full, always be ready for Christ return, or you will be left behind just like the 5 bride braids

Matthew 25

6 “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’

7 “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. 8 Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’

9 “But the others replied, ‘We don’t have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. 11 Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’

12 “But he called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’

13 “So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return.

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He said to them..."I don't know you". The warning is to be ready. No argument here. But what does that look like? A perfect life? A sinless life? How is it that He knows us? Try reading 1Cor.8:3. (if anyone loves God, this one is also known by Him.) Does a person have to be in total victory to be loving God? They will bear fruit..some 100, some 60, some 30. This is what I have been saying all along. There are those who presume that only a few will be ready. John's vision in Revelation says otherwise. Who does Jesus know? Those who have no oil will be cast out. Those who have no fruit will be rejected. But those who have the Holy Spirit have oil. They also have a relationship with Jesus, as pictured in Rev.3:20. Let us be careful who we presume to disqualify. Abide (remain) in Him and you will bear fruit. Our role is to abide. His role is to cause the increase of fruit. BTW, we abide in Him the same way we entered into Him....by faith. Those who are of works for justification have entered into risky waters.

Ruth and WM, both of you are right. Keeping the garment white doesn't mean leading a perfect life. It means keeping the faith in which our stains are continuously cleansed.

aspen2, on 02 May 2013 - 7:28 PM, said:

aspen2 said:

It is interesting to me that the Bible says nothing about asking Jesus into our hearts - instead Jesus talks about God bringing His Kingdom into our hearts. It seems to me that if we are stuck in doctrine and refusing to live like Christ by serving God and neighbor in love - the Kingdom has not been delivered yet and we need to be in prayer Thy Kingdom Come; Thy Will Be Done, On Earth As It Is In Heaven.

If the Kingdom of God is not present in our hearts now - how can we assume we will be present in His Kingdom after death? Jesus told us Christians are known by their fruit. Our fruit is living out the Kingdom of God in our hearts by loving God and neighbor in all circumstances.

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A general reply: The bible does say that Jesus is knocking at the door. (Rev.3:20). He is asking to come in and have fellowship.
But concerning the kingdom of God, Rom.14:17 says the kingdom of God is not food or drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy IN the Holy Spirit. Just a reminder that it is imperative that we are filled with the Spirit. This is what brings us our life and fulfillment.
There are those who crusade against sin as though it is our big enemy. But it is merely a symptom. It is an effect, not a cause.

Paul advised the Ephesians to not be drunk with wine but rather be filled with the Spirit. Some say this is about control. I would rather say that this is about life. Sin for the most part, is motivated by an emptiness or dryness on the inside. This is the so called God shaped vacuum within. We are born in this world without the life of God within us, and thus it is inevitable that we choose avenues to try to get the life that we intrinsically know is missing and we desire. Therefore all the vices appear. But these activities, including drunkenness and getting high, etc. , only numb the void. It does not fill it. It is a temporary fix. But it gets worse. Crime happens. People hurt each other, and themselves.

Instead of condemning sinners or blaming them, or rejecting them, as Christians we ought to have compassion as Jesus did. We can offer the real solution. But this will never happen if they feel a finger pointing at them. They run away from many Christians. How can we expect them to turn to God while running away from us? And worse, this overflows into the church. Christians who are caught in sin are generally unhappy, without joy, and feel pretty bad about themselves. So what do we do? Do we rub it in? Rub their faces in it? Do we break a bended reed? Do we therefore feed an already unhealthy self image? Do we judge? A certain percentage of Christians do exactly those. And some even Lord it over those who are struggling, of course with the innuendo that they themselves are walking in victory....( I thank you that I am not like this one over here ..Luke 18:11)

I cannot support that, and I would guess it grieves the Holy Spirit. We need to stay humble and help one another. Does a warning help? God is offering a relationship with Him (John 17:3). Some will accept. Some won't. But why would we accept the idea that we can scare a person into God's loving arms? My wife accepted my proposal because she was attracted to me and saw I had something to offer ( a weak summary). It was not out of fear of consequences. So if this fear mongering and condemnation tactic worked, the whole world might have come in already. They have been hearing about hell for a long, long, time.

I suggest that the church is lacking good teaching. We are a family. And a highly dysfunctional one at that.

evangelist-7 said:

Yes, it obviously means ...

[SIZE=10pt]1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[/SIZE]

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That is correct. Abiding in the faith requires confession of sin. The way into the temple is through the altar. Those who try to enter another way are thieves and robbers.