Why I'm not going to Heaven

domenic · May 11, 2013

Why I’m not going to Heaven;
I would like to visit Heaven. I would like to see God. From what everybody who has not been there says, it must really be a beautiful place. Yeah, I’d like to visit, but I’m designed to live on Earth, and care for it. God created man to live on his Earth, and care for it for him. We weren’t designed to age, and die.
You see I’m just a simple person. I believe anything our God does works. When he made the Earth, and man to take care over it for him, well, some people think Satan forced God to change that. I know Satan wont’s us to think he is just a little tiny guy in a red suit standing on our shoulder, and with just a wisk of the hand, we can brush him off. Not true. He is big, powerful, and deadly. But, his power over God is like a grain of sand. He has no power over God. He can’t disrupt what God puts in motion.
God did not fail when he designed the human family to never age, die, and care for his Earth for ever.
Has Satan convinced you God did something that did not work? Don’t be fooled, that’s a bunch of horse dug.
Six thousand years after God created the last thing, (Eve) Jesus will come back, destroy all Satan has built on Gods Earth, along with those who follow him, and this Earth will again become a paradise. Those God wants will be given perfect bodies. At the end of the 1,000 year rule under Jesus, Satan will be let lose for a short time, Those who follow Satan will die with him, the rest of the human family will continue to care for the Earth.
This little part is not in the Bible, but I think we, the human family will spread out into the universe, and care for all of Gods gardens.
So you see, God designed me to love being a human on Earth, and taking care of it for him. He put that in my heart, and it’s stuck there.
I mean do you really think God failed at something he set in motion? Do you really believe Satan could undo anything God did?
Satan would have you believe God sat back and said, “Oh heck, Satan beat me. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to change what I set in motion…Oh I know what I’ll do. I’ll have some people come to heaven, and others to a hell of fire.”
If you buy that, let me sell you the Brookline Bridge. Or better yet, how about the White House?

Arnie Manitoba · May 11, 2013

Sounds just like JW literature

domenic · May 11, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
Sounds just like JW literature

It does. Just because they are a cult, do you think they have everything wrong? Why do you think it is so hard for JW members to leave that cult? They do have much right. I searched religions for major false doctrines. Most religions the false doctrines are easy to find. It took me over thirty years to dig the one false doctrine that freed me from the JW cult. They are a false religion…but they are still closer to truth than all the others. God says, “Get out of them my people.”
I am free of all religions. They all have false major doctrines. I believe in God the Father, his son Jesus, and Gods written word. I do not follow religions that have major false doctrines. Before you start throwing stones at any people, I suggest you look to your own house.
Tell me your religion, and will show you the false doctrines it stands on. There are many good Christians who are still slaves to the Watch Tower. I still love these people. Do you think Satan has overlooked the Christians in your religion? Who do you think is behind religions? I'll give you a hint...it's not God.

Arnie Manitoba · May 12, 2013

Why are you so angry ?

Alanforchrist · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
Why I’m not going to Heaven;
I would like to visit Heaven. I would like to see God. From what everybody who has not been there says, it must really be a beautiful place. Yeah, I’d like to visit, but I’m designed to live on Earth, and care for it. God created man to live on his Earth, and care for it for him. We weren’t designed to age, and die.
You see I’m just a simple person. I believe anything our God does works. When he made the Earth, and man to take care over it for him, well, some people think Satan forced God to change that. I know Satan wont’s us to think he is just a little tiny guy in a red suit standing on our shoulder, and with just a wisk of the hand, we can brush him off. Not true. He is big, powerful, and deadly. But, his power over God is like a grain of sand. He has no power over God. He can’t disrupt what God puts in motion.
God did not fail when he designed the human family to never age, die, and care for his Earth for ever.
Has Satan convinced you God did something that did not work? Don’t be fooled, that’s a bunch of horse dug.
Six thousand years after God created the last thing, (Eve) Jesus will come back, destroy all Satan has built on Gods Earth, along with those who follow him, and this Earth will again become a paradise. Those God wants will be given perfect bodies. At the end of the 1,000 year rule under Jesus, Satan will be let lose for a short time, Those who follow Satan will die with him, the rest of the human family will continue to care for the Earth.
This little part is not in the Bible, but I think we, the human family will spread out into the universe, and care for all of Gods gardens.
So you see, God designed me to love being a human on Earth, and taking care of it for him. He put that in my heart, and it’s stuck there.
I mean do you really think God failed at something he set in motion? Do you really believe Satan could undo anything God did?
Satan would have you believe God sat back and said, “Oh heck, Satan beat me. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to change what I set in motion…Oh I know what I’ll do. I’ll have some people come to heaven, and others to a hell of fire.”
If you buy that, let me sell you the Brookline Bridge. Or better yet, how about the White House?

So you won't be going up in the pre-tribulation rapture the??.
Every born again Christian whow is ready and watching, Will go to heaven and escape the comming tribualtion period.
I guess you want to stay on the earth and get tribulated.
The Church will be coming back from heaven, to reign for 1.000 years with Christ.

Also, If you die before the rapture, You will go to heaven, If you are a born again Christian.
If you don't go to heaven via the grave or the rapture, That means you will be going to hell, Or at least you will go through the tribulation and even be killed.
Plus, If you can't make during the age of grace, Whats your chances of making it during the great tribulation period.

So if you are a born agin Christian, Your confession should be, "I am going to heaven".

But you are right about one thing, Heaven does come down to earth.

Guestman · May 12, 2013

Though Jesus said "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" (KJV) at Matthew 5:5, the churches have never given any consideration to these words, with Jesus was quoting from David's words at Psalms 37:11, whereby he said: "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."

Most never give thought to other verses as well that show the earth to be an inheritance for "meek" ones, such as also in Psalms 37:22 and 29 that says: "For those being blessed by him (Jehovah) will themselves possess the earth” (verse 22), and “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”(verse 29)

In addition, at Psalms 115, it says that “as regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, but the earth he has given to the sons of men.”(Ps 115:16) At Isaiah 45, it says: “For this is what Jehovah has said, the creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.”(Isa 45:18)

Most never seriously give thought to what the Bible really teaches, but continue to promote the same scenario of “all good people go to heaven”. They gloss over most of the Bible, thinking of it like a buffet at a restaurant, pick and choose what they like, but discard the rest.

As a result, they fail to grasp why even the “kingdom” was formed, who and why individuals from the earth are chosen as “kings and priests”.(Rev 1:6, KJV) They have no idea that “God’s heavenly kingdom” was brought into existence for the very purpose of ensuring the completion of God’s original purpose for the earth (Gen 1:28), of it becoming a paradise for “meek” ones of mankind as their everlasting home.

And these fail to understand why Jesus “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power (in opposition to Jehovah) ”(1 Cor 15:24) at the end of his “thousand year” reign, when any and everything that has not fully submitted to God’s rulership will have been destroyed.(Rev 18:2, 8; 19:19-21; 20:7-10)

These fail to grasp why Jesus told the evil-doer to one side of him while on the torture stake that “Truly I tell you today, You will with me in paradise.”(Luke 23:43) The original paradise was here on earth, and thus the paradise that Jesus assured the evil-doer of is not heaven, for the evil-doer could not have been going to heaven, being far from qualifying for it, not worthy (2 Thess1:4, 5), in which only those who have “no falsehoods found in their mouths, they are without blemish” are chosen.(Rev 14:5)

7angels · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
Satan would have you believe God sat back and said, “Oh heck, Satan beat me. Oh well, I guess I’ll have to change what I set in motion…Oh I know what I’ll do. I’ll have some people come to heaven, and others to a hell of fire.”
If you buy that, let me sell you the Brookline Bridge. Or better yet, how about the White House?

domenic where do you get your information that some people will not go to hell? how is it that you interpret those scriptures in the bible that speak of people going to hell or even of Jesus going to hell? i am interested in hearing your views.

God bless

domenic · May 12, 2013

7angels said:
domenic where do you get your information that some people will not go to hell? how is it that you interpret those scriptures in the bible that speak of people going to hell or even of Jesus going to hell? i am interested in hearing your views.

God bless

Where do I get my information? The Bible.
Hell comes from the word, Hades, Sheol. It means the common grave of mankind.
When Jesus comes to destroy this system of things, and those who support it, there will still be those he wants alive on this earth. Jesus will raise these, and those he wants in the grave up. I do not know where he will take them? I have no idea where up is? Those he takes will not see, or be a part of the destruction. When it’s over, those saved will be returned.
Up could mean many things my little brain does not understand, nor do I spend time worrying about it. Those he wants could be up a hundred earth years, and it could seem as a second…I don’t know. I don’t claim I am going to be one of those taken. That is not the reason I serve God. I don’t serve him because he promises life…I serve him because my heart will not let me do otherwise. If when everybody is taken up, and I find myself left behind, I will still praise my God, for I know whatever decisions he makes are the right ones, and I would agree with him. I don’t think people should serve God for a reward. He owes us nothing. It is we who owe him.

Polt · May 12, 2013

Domenic, that's probably as valid as as some of the other eschatological views I hear.

williemac · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
Where do I get my information? The Bible.
Hell comes from the word, Hades, Sheol. It means the common grave of mankind.
When Jesus comes to destroy this system of things, and those who support it, there will still be those he wants alive on this earth. Jesus will raise these, and those he wants in the grave up. I do not know where he will take them? I have no idea where up is? Those he takes will not see, or be a part of the destruction. When it’s over, those saved will be returned.
Up could mean many things my little brain does not understand, nor do I spend time worrying about it. Those he wants could be up a hundred earth years, and it could seem as a second…I don’t know. I don’t claim I am going to be one of those taken. That is not the reason I serve God. I don’t serve him because he promises life…I serve him because my heart will not let me do otherwise. If when everybody is taken up, and I find myself left behind, I will still praise my God, for I know whatever decisions he makes are the right ones, and I would agree with him. I don’t think people should serve God for a reward. He owes us nothing. It is we who owe him.

My testimony is that years ago, my sister told me she had a personal relationship with God. This intrigued me. I knew she wasn't stupid or crazy, so I took her at her word and sought to have a relationship with Him myself. My encounter with Him was and is powerful, real, and rewarding. I serve Him for not just one reason, but the main one being that He is my reward. We love Him because He first loved us. This is His design. This is how we were made. If your love for Him is not a response to the experience of His love in your life, I would be surprised.
This is not really about owing anything. Relationship is deeper than that kind of word. My relationship with my own wife is not out of obligation. This would not satisfy her in the long run. My desire is for her and hers for me. As well, God knows our hearts.

To anyone, I would advise seriously considering that eternal life is not primarily about our location or our duration of life, though these are obviously in play. As Jesus said in John 17:3, it is about knowing God. It is about relationship. And for the sake of the J.W.'s on this thread, that verse uses the same word as was used in Luke1:34, where Mary declared she did not know a man. This is not merely about intellectual knowledge. This is a word that implies intimacy. I can only guess that your NWT translators were going by their own experience, or lack thereof, in suggesting otherwise in John 17:3. If you look, in Rev.3:20, Jesus stands at the door and knocks, waiting and wanting to come into those who respond. You are being robbed and raped by the doctrine that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is limited to 144,000. But there is only one way to prove me wrong. The question is..do you wish to have personal intimacy with God in this way? Would you want it if you were told it was available to all? My experience is that it is.

I know that no matter where I dwell for eternity, I will be with Him where He is, and that is all that matters.

domenic · May 12, 2013

Polt said:
Domenic, that's probably as valid as as some of the other eschatological views I hear.

If you care to put your religion to the test, I will be glade to help you...If you think it may not stand to the test, shy away.

williemac · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
If you care to put your religion to the test, I will be glade to help you...If you think it may not stand to the test, shy away.

Domenic. Do you know about this verse? Gen.3:22...." Then the Lord God said, behold the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. And lest he put out his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat it, AND LIVE FOREVER...(vs24) So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life"
I quoted this in response to this quote from you, from reply #5... " God did not fail when he designed the human family to never age, die, and care for his Earth for ever."
Speaking of putting something to the test. In response to Adam's disobedience, God designed man to be mortal, in not allowing him to eat of the tree of life. The only way he will live forever is if he partakes of the body and blood of Jesus through faith in Him (John 6:50,51) Otherwise he will die and not live forever as the passage in John states. Are you willing to submit to the authority of scripture, or do you rather exalt your own opinions? I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully this is what you were referring to in your reply.

domenic · May 12, 2013

williemac said:
Domenic. Do you know about this verse? Gen.3:22...." Then the Lord God said, behold the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. And lest he put out his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat it, AND LIVE FOREVER...(vs24) So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life"
I quoted this in response to this quote from you, from reply #5... " God did not fail when he designed the human family to never age, die, and care for his Earth for ever."
Speaking of putting something to the test. In response to Adam's disobedience, God designed man to be mortal, in not allowing him to eat of the tree of life. The only way he will live forever is if he partakes of the body and blood of Jesus through faith in Him (John 6:50,51) Otherwise he will die and not live forever as the passage in John states. Are you willing to submit to the authority of scripture, or do you rather exalt your own opinions? I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully this is what you were referring to in your reply.

Adam and Eve did not die from eating the fruit. (sic.) They died because God condemned them to death. All the trees in the Bible are symbolic trees. Do you take the two trees in the Garden as not symbolic trees? Why?
You are not God, so step aside from your question, and do not put me to the test.

Maureen92 · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
Adam and Eve did not die from eating the fruit. (sic.) They died because God condemned them to death. All the trees in the Bible are symbolic trees. Do you take the two trees in the Garden as not symbolic trees? Why?
You are not God, so step aside from your question, and do not put me to the test.

Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit. That's why there is sin in the world. God doesn't just condemn people for no reason. They sinned.

domenic · May 12, 2013

Maureen92 said:
Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit. That's why there is sin in the world. God doesn't just condemn people for no reason. They sinned.

Okay, I'll play it on your level. God condemned Adam and Eve because they sinned. So tell me, are you saying God is making the whole human family die because of what two did?
A human father would not do that. Why do you think God would? Adam and Eve did something physical that makes us die. If two people had HIV, their child would also have HIV. Adam and Eve passed off something in their seed that kills. God is not making us die…something from the first two humans is killing us.
Read Genesis 3:15 angels do not have seed. God is talking to Satan, about his seed. Do you hear a bell ringing? Go to Genesis 5. The life of Adam. Adams first child was Seth…not Cain and Able. Second bell ringing?
Jesus did not die to remove our SINS. He died to remove the thing that is killing us…the thing passed down from the first two humans.
Sin means, FALLING SHORT OF THE MARK.

williemac · May 12, 2013

domenic said:
Adam and Eve did not die from eating the fruit. (sic.) They died because God condemned them to death. All the trees in the Bible are symbolic trees. Do you take the two trees in the Garden as not symbolic trees? Why?
You are not God, so step aside from your question, and do not put me to the test.

Hey bro, why the attitude? You think by barking out orders, you will get obeyed? You are not God either. Give me a break. If you want to be taken seriously, then a little more kindness and gentleness might be advisable, and maybe some humility as well. I will do the same. I am not taking myself so seriously that I cannot be corrected. How about yourself?

In regards to this question from you in reply #15: Okay, I'll play it on your level. God condemned Adam and Eve because they sinned. So tell me, are you saying God is making the whole human family die because of what two did?
Let us look at Rom.5:12..." Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-" Through one man, sin entered the world. But this verse has a context. Without going into all of it, I will skip to vs.18..." Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

There is your answer. Because of one man, sin and death entered the human race. But the injustice of this is countered by the fact that also, through one Man, life is offered to all.

But this is conditional to humility. God gives grace to the humble. And through humility, one receives life by faith. However, your replies have a distinct similarity to Calvinistic type doctrine, in saying that God will allow those whom He wants, to be given perfect bodies. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I assume you also concur that it is by a person's faith in Him, and not some random choice by God to save some and not others.

But I do want to also ask about your viewpoint concerning the story of the rich man and Lazarus. While we are at it, how does Math.10:28 fit in with your idea concerning death? I don't wish to do what some do in assuming what you believe. Blessings, Howie

domenic · May 13, 2013

williemac said:
Hey bro, why the attitude? You think by barking out orders, you will get obeyed? You are not God either. Give me a break. If you want to be taken seriously, then a little more kindness and gentleness might be advisable, and maybe some humility as well. I will do the same. I am not taking myself so seriously that I cannot be corrected. How about yourself?

In regards to this question from you in reply #15: Okay, I'll play it on your level. God condemned Adam and Eve because they sinned. So tell me, are you saying God is making the whole human family die because of what two did?
Let us look at Rom.5:12..." Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-" Through one man, sin entered the world. But this verse has a context. Without going into all of it, I will skip to vs.18..." Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

There is your answer. Because of one man, sin and death entered the human race. But the injustice of this is countered by the fact that also, through one Man, life is offered to all.

But this is conditional to humility. God gives grace to the humble. And through humility, one receives life by faith. However, your replies have a distinct similarity to Calvinistic type doctrine, in saying that God will allow those whom He wants, to be given perfect bodies. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I assume you also concur that it is by a person's faith in Him, and not some random choice by God to save some and not others.

But I do want to also ask about your viewpoint concerning the story of the rich man and Lazarus. While we are at it, how does Math.10:28 fit in with your idea concerning death? I don't wish to do what some do in assuming what you believe. Blessings, Howie

Howie, I apologize if my post sounded harsh, or like a bark…it was not meant to be so. Let me explain what I was saying a different way. Most people take the word sin, to mean something bad. The true meaning of the word means, “Falling short of the marks.,” or, “Putting something that was right, wrong.”
Adam and Eve were perfect. The act they did made them imperfect. They did something that was passed on to you, and me…death. Finding what that something was is not that difficult. Convincing others is.
Here are facts , and questions I have gathered;
1)The angels in Heaven rebelled after God commanded them to serve man.
2)Throughout the Bible, when God commands someone do something, and they refuse, he forces the to do it, with consequences.
3) There had to be a reason Satan wanted Adam and Eve to sin. What could be gained?
4) Adam called Eve women, and after the birth of Cain, called her Eve.
5) The word Eve meant, giver of life. (seed.) This means it was not Adams seed?
6) Genesis 5. Here we see the name of Adams first child, Seth. Cain and Able are not in this list. The Birth os Seth was some 130 years after the birth of Cain and Able.
7) Genesis 4. Adam had sex with Eve, and she became pregnant. In time she gave birth to Cain. This goes against Genesis 5? Something is wrong here. It is a fact some changes have been made in the Bible. I believe this is one.
8) Angels have no seed to reproduce. They do not reproduce.
9) Genesis 3:15. God is talking to Satan about Satan’s seed? Somehow Satan has a seed, and did something with it? This verse is also about Jesus and his seed.
10) Genesis 3:14. God is saying to a serpent, (this word is used for Satan, but in this case I don’t think it is Satan. I believe it is a different angel.) ‘because you have done this, you are the cursed one of all the domestic animals, and out of all the wild beast of the field.” Angels are not animals? Why is God calling an angel an animal?
11) Satan was not cast down to serve man. He went back and forth between Heaven, and Earth. The angels that were cast down, could not go back and forth.
12) There are two sets of Scrolls. One was used to write the Bible I will call “A.” The other set are much older. These older ones are the Dead Sea Scrolls I will call “B.” Sections in Genesis did not match.
When parts of the dead Sea Scrolls were translated they were released. There was a difference found; Scrolls “A.” Eve gives birth to Cain, and says, “I have gotten a man from the Lord.” Scrolls “B” reads, “I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord Samuel.”
Someone stopped the release of the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls. A short time later, a new release of Genesis from the dead Sea Scrolls was released that matched Scroll “A“?
13) All the trees in the Bible are symbolic trees. Why are the two trees in the Garden not referred to as symbolic trees?
14) Why would God not want Adam and Eve to know right from wrong? The complete Bible we have teaches us right from wrong? I have heard it said, God wanted to be the one to tell them right from wrong…I have seen nothing in the Bible to prove that out.
15) Some things in Genesis have been changed. Over history, men have been burned at the stake for making changes to the Bible.
16) Animals always aged, and died.
Is a picture emerging here for you? It has for me. Here is what I believe:
The angels who refused to serve man, were cast down in a form lower than man, but higher than animal. Somewhat of a man like animal…more of the animal tree, than the human tree. Satan used one of these, (Samuel) and had sex with Eve. She gave birth to Cain, and Abel. These two children, not from Adam, had animal seed. This animal seed is passed on to the whole human family…it is why we die.
Satan’s plan to gather followers? Free the angels from having to serve man, by getting man to disobey God.
I know there are some who will never believe the Bible has been changed. It has been proven many times over that some sections have been. Even today, different religious groups have their own Bible which some things read different from the Bibles of other groups. Look at the Catholic Bible verses the KJ.

Guestman · May 13, 2013

williemac said:
My testimony is that years ago, my sister told me she had a personal relationship with God. This intrigued me. I knew she wasn't stupid or crazy, so I took her at her word and sought to have a relationship with Him myself. My encounter with Him was and is powerful, real, and rewarding. I serve Him for not just one reason, but the main one being that He is my reward. We love Him because He first loved us. This is His design. This is how we were made. If your love for Him is not a response to the experience of His love in your life, I would be surprised.
This is not really about owing anything. Relationship is deeper than that kind of word. My relationship with my own wife is not out of obligation. This would not satisfy her in the long run. My desire is for her and hers for me. As well, God knows our hearts.

To anyone, I would advise seriously considering that eternal life is not primarily about our location or our duration of life, though these are obviously in play. As Jesus said in John 17:3, it is about knowing God. It is about relationship. And for the sake of the J.W.'s on this thread, that verse uses the same word as was used in Luke1:34, where Mary declared she did not know a man. This is not merely about intellectual knowledge. This is a word that implies intimacy. I can only guess that your NWT translators were going by their own experience, or lack thereof, in suggesting otherwise in John 17:3. If you look, in Rev.3:20, Jesus stands at the door and knocks, waiting and wanting to come into those who respond. You are being robbed and raped by the doctrine that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is limited to 144,000. But there is only one way to prove me wrong. The question is..do you wish to have personal intimacy with God in this way? Would you want it if you were told it was available to all? My experience is that it is.

I know that no matter where I dwell for eternity, I will be with Him where He is, and that is all that matters.

When Jehovah God created the earth and then later fashioned it as our home (Gen 1), there was no need for anyone to be selected to go to heaven. His original purpose was (and still is) for Adam's descendants to take care of the earth as their home forever.(Gen 1:28; Isa 45:18)

Had Adam not sinned, no one would have been chosen for the "heavenly calling".(Heb 3:1) Only after Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden did God decide to select a 144,000 loyal individuals from the earth (Rev 14:1, 4) to form a heavenly government, "the kingdom of God".(Mark 1:15)

To show that these ones have been chosen, God anoints these ones with holy spirit. At Ephesians 1, the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesian Christians, that "by means of him (Jesus Christ) also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance."(Eph 1:13, 14)

In making known the "sacred secret of his will" ("mystery", KJV), it was established that Jehovah would "adopt" sons for himself (Eph 1:5) as his way of gathering "all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens" from among ones on the earth. This was for the sole purpose of bringing to reality a heavenly government to complete what he began with regards Adam and Eve, an earth filled with righteous people who are to be its caretakers forever. However, did God's purpose with regard to the earth change after Adam's rebellion ? No.

At Isaiah 55, he says: "For just as the pouring rain descends, and the snow, from the heavens and does not return to that place, unless it actually saturates the earth and makes it produce and sprout, and seed is actually given to the sower and bread to the eater, so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it."(Isa 55:10, 11)

Hence, just as farmer starts his work by planting the seeds and then waters and fertilizes them till they grow to maturity in order to be harvested and then turned into bread to be eaten, so likewise from start to finish, God will see that his word is accomplished, so that when he created the earth for human habitation, he will ensure that his word regarding this is brought to a successful completion whereby "meek" ones will reside on it forever.(Ps 37:11, 29) Any rebels will be barred from living on it.(Ps 37:9, 10)

But for this to become a reality, after the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, Jehovah then and there made arrangements for loyal individuals to be selected to form a heavenly kingdom or government, with the 1st prophecy in the Bible stating that there would be a "seed" of "the woman" that would "bruise" the ' serpent in the head '.(Gen 3:15) This "serpent" was later identified as Satan the Devil.(Rev 12:9)

The "seed" of "the woman" (who is neither Eve nor Mary, but the loyal angels as a group that produced a "seed") proved to be Jesus, with a number of loyal individuals from the earth (in addition to those of the Jews) also being selected in accordance with the "sacred secret....until the full number of people of the nations has come in."(Rom 11:25)

This "full number" or specific number is seen at Revelation 7:4 and 14:1 as 144,000 chosen "out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" who have been "made...to be a kingdom and priests to our God".(Rev 5:9, 10) Jesus, along with the 144,000 comprise "the kingdom of God", that will be used like a "tool" to remove all wickedness and transform the earth into a paradise for "meek" ones, fulfilling Jesus words: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."(Matt 5:5, KJV)

domenic · May 13, 2013

Guestman said:
When Jehovah God formed the earth and then later fashioned it as our home (Gen 1), there was no need for anyone to be selected to go to heaven. His original purpose was (and still is) for Adam's descendants to take care of the earth as their home forever.(Gen 1:28; Isa 45:18)

Had Adam not sinned, no one would have been chosen for the "heavenly calling".(Heb 3:1) Only after Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden did God decide to select a 144,000 loyal individuals from the earth (Rev 14:1, 4) to form a heavenly government, "the kingdom of God".(Mark 1:15)

To show that these ones have been chosen, God anoints these ones with holy spirit. At Ephesians 1, the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesian Christians, that "by means of him (Jesus Christ) also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance."(Eph 1:13, 14)

In making known the "sacred secret of his will" ("mystery", KJV), it was established that Jehovah would "adopt" sons for himself (Eph 1:5) as his way of gathering "all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens" from among ones on the earth. This was for the sole purpose of bringing to reality a heavenly government to complete what he began with regards Adam and Eve, an earth filled with righteous people who are to be its caretakers forever. However, did God's purpose with regard to the earth change after Adam's rebellion ? No.

At Isaiah 55, he says: "For just as the pouring rain descends, and the snow, from the heavens and does not return to that place, unless it actually saturates the earth and makes it produce and sprout, and seed is actually given to the sower and bread to the eater, so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it."(Isa 55:10, 11)

Hence, just as farmer starts his work by planting the seeds and then waters and fertilizes them till they grow to maturity in order to be harvested and then turned into bread to be eaten, so likewise from start to finish, God will see that his word is accomplished, so that when he created the earth for human habitation, he will ensure that his word regarding this is brought to a successful completion whereby "meek" ones will reside on it forever.(Ps 37:11, 29) Any rebels will be barred from living on it.(Ps 37:9, 10)

But for this to become a reality, after the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, Jehovah then and there made arrangements for loyal individuals to be selected to form a heavenly kingdom or government, with the 1st prophecy in the Bible stating that there would be a "seed" of "the woman" that would "bruise" the ' serpent in the head '.(Gen 3:15) This "serpent" was later identified as Satan the Devil.(Rev 12:9)

The "seed" of "the woman" (who is neither Eve nor Mary, but the loyal angels as a group that produced a "seed") proved to be Jesus, with a number of loyal individuals from the earth (in addition to those of the Jews) also being selected in accordance with the "sacred secret....until the full number of people of the nations has come in."(Rom 11:25)

This "full number" or specific number is seen at Revelation 7:4 and 14:1 as 144,000 chosen "out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" who have been "made...to be a kingdom and priests to our God".(Rev 5:9, 10) Jesus, along with the 144,000 comprise "the kingdom of God", that will be used like a "tool" to remove all wickedness and transform the earth into a paradise for "meek" ones, fulfilling Jesus words: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."(Matt 5:5, KJV)

I agree with your post 100%. Many will go against this because their religion says different. The Bible stands as the proof of what you say.
I for one, am not going to Heaven. I pray I’m not one of the 144,000...I like being a human servant of God.

williemac · May 13, 2013

Obviously a couple of Jehovah's witnesses here. Unfortunately the 144,000 theory does not hold up to scripture. The offer of the indwelling presence of THE Holy Spirit is not limited to just 144.000. If it is, then I am one of them, as I have the Holy Spirit, and have been used on occasion in a gift or two, not the least of which is the gift of tongues. I could not pray in tongues before I was filled. One could question the source if they want, but Jesus assured us that if we asked God for bread, we would not receive a stone. "How much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to they who ask?" Here is the part you should note. One can ask. And according to several sources, HE (the Holy Spirit) is given as a guarantee of our inheritance.
So I suspect that you do not have a guarantee within you. But rather than assume, I will ask you...do you expect to live forever?

Why I'm not going to Heaven

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